Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 424

Originally Posted by BenJF3

Ok, so my local office got in the 8640HDC and I'm now in possession of one. I booted it up and did a quick comparison of ODN vs MDN and what others were saying rings true. ODN has a whole other subset of menu options (very similar to SARA) as well as missing features like Nearest Tune and Sort By Favorites. Speed of ODN appears comparable, but I think MDN on my 8300HD tunes a bit faster and is slightly more fluid. I prefer the way MDN fades in and out of the menus/guide. However, I really like the look of the 8640 over the 8300. The black with blue LED display matches my other components very nicely. Upon more play time, I will concede that MDN is faster. ODN gives me a brief Please Wait message when going into menus and MDN just flows smoother.

On to the meat and potatoes - I promptly opened up the 8640 and is put together with tamper resistant screws. Upon further inspection, I noted that it has a Caviar Blue 8MB Cache 5400RPM SATA drive installed and also has a tamper resistant sticker on it connected to the frame. The sticker is the same as on the CableCard and the one in mine was already unstuck!

So, I swapped out the drive with a 1TB Caviar Black 32MB Cache 7200RPM and it just finished it's download and install. The box is currently booted up and running and I'm recording off both tuners simultaneously and scheduled it to do so for the next few hours. Please note that I did NOT clone the drive. I was going to, but I wanted to see what it would do with a bare drive. Please be advised I am not recommending anyone attempt this unless you are completely comfortable doing so and if you do, you do it at your own risk.

Ok, so everything is up and running. I see that I have ODN 3.1.3.3. Can anyone give me the low down on this version of ODN? Any known glitches or bugs? Right now, I'm only hooked up through composite video on a 13". I have a large order coming in for the recent plasma purchase which I hope to have up on the wall by the end of next week. Schedule is a bit busy due to work and the wifey taking a spill and fracturing her elbow.

Now the benefit of this is twofold - I gain a MASSIVE amount of record space and I no longer need a second outlet tied up with a eSATA enclosure up with my components. That coupled with the fact that should they update the firmware and lose eSATA support on the MDN boxes, I would be unaffected. I should get better performance from the drive as well because Cisco/SA is using very basic drives where as the replacement is a high end faster drive. I will continue to report as time goes, but I think once I catch up on my shows, I'm going to return the 8300HD as long as the 8640 is performing well. Another reason to keep it is that I plan on adding an HD set in the bedroom and will likely have a 4640HDC so the ODN menus will be similar which is helpful for the wife.

UPDATE: Per diagnostic page: ODN recognizes 928.49GB and was showing just over 900GB available with the number decreasing as it recorded. So it appears the drive transplant was a success. I'll store away the 320GB in the event the unit fails and needs to be returned for replacement.

Originally Posted by BenJF3

Ok, so my local office got in the 8640HDC and I'm now in possession of one.
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So, I swapped out the drive with a 1TB Caviar Black 32MB Cache 7200RPM and it just finished it's download and install. The box is currently booted up and running and I'm recording off both tuners simultaneously and scheduled it to do so for the next few hours.

Originally Posted by HDClown

How do you deal with the tamper resistant screws/labels if you need to swap out a unit if it breaks on you?

Originally Posted by abyssrules

Ben what office did you manage to get your hands on a 8640 hdc ??? They must be in then huh who would have thought .

Originally Posted by therealjustin

Does anyone know if the Oneida(CNY) office has any 8640HDC's?

Originally Posted by BenJF3

Can't say for sure, but the Rome Office did a few days ago. Hopefully that means the division is getting new hardware. The problem is that you can no longer call your local office to check. When you call the local number, you get the call center and they don't have a clue what the local offices have in stock.

Thus far, I can say I prefer one version (MDN or ODN) over the other. I can confirm I get a Please Wait message with ODN on the 8640 when I bring up the DVR List that I don't see on the MDN version. The MDN version has a better menu layout and operates a bit more smoothly. However, the MDN version is likely to not get any further upgrades that the ODN version will get. The ODN version already has features the MDN version lacks.

The other thing is that if and it's a big if, Time Warner employs a 16:9 guide, only the newer ODN boxes will support it. As I play with then further I will report more findings.

I also have to report my father's MDN 8300HD had a spontaneous reboot tonight while I was at his house. I have to say that Nav does boot faster than SARA did (both versions).

Originally Posted by BenJF3

Further update: Seems the drive always shows 1% Full. Even after I deleted a few hours of HD recordings it still showed 1% with nothing in the recorded list. Now, the percentage may vary anyhow from my 8300HD with eSATA because that counts both the external and internal drive. So, I should be able to get anywhere between 80-90 hours of HD content depending on bitrate whereas I was getting 100 hours on the 8300 with the 1TB external.

I think average non-power users will find the 320GB adequate, but those of us who like to record movies and such will find adding space a big time plus.

Originally Posted by jnv11

I am pretty sure that the 1% is probably ODN and at least part of the software needed to load ODN. This is because the 8640HDC only includes 2MB of flash storage, forcing it to store most of the program data onto the hard drive. The non-DVR cousin of the 8640HDC, the 4640HDC, instead has 32MB of flash storage and must store everything in flash. This suggests that Cisco was trying to save money by using the hard drive for storage of part of the firmware.

Originally Posted by jnv11

I am pretty sure that the 1% is probably ODN and at least part of the software needed to load ODN. This is because the 8640HDC only includes 2MB of flash storage, forcing it to store most of the program data onto the hard drive. The non-DVR cousin of the 8640HDC, the 4640HDC, instead has 32MB of flash storage and must store everything in flash. This suggests that Cisco was trying to save money by using the hard drive for storage of part of the firmware.

Originally Posted by Satch Man

I have MDN (SA-8300)

I erase everything after watching it and do very little recording. I can verify that with no recordings or scheduled recordings, there is always a 1% shown. My guess is that there might always need to be the least bit of RAM available to make the DVR and its components work regardless of model or software version.

Our last software update for MDN was about 8 months ago, and I don't think I have seen a "Please Wait" issue since. Sometimes in the wee hours of the morning, often between 4-5 am, I might get a Loading Data when doing searches, but it doesn't last long at all, nor have I had slowdowns with this box.

Jack

Originally Posted by jcalabria

I'm a bit surprised about the Please Wait messages on the 8640... they were a rarity on the 8300HDC and I don't think I have ever seen it at all on the 3090. I would have expected the 8640 to be on par with the 3090.

Originally Posted by jcalabria

I'm a bit surprised about the Please Wait messages on the 8640... they were a rarity on the 8300HDC and I don't think I have ever seen it at all on the 3090. I would have expected the 8640 to be on par with the 3090.

However, the MDN version is likely to not get any further upgrades that the ODN version will get. The ODN version already has features the MDN version lacks.

Originally Posted by Satch Man

They will still update both versions of Navigator (MDN and ODN.) However, because it is newer, ODN is likely to get new features first. However, sometimes little surprises can show up in one division or box over the other.

For example, Brighthouse Networks has had MDN 2.5, for several months and they have a feature called DVR Compensation where you can control the level of jump-back speed when coming out of rewind or fast forward. AFAIK, I have not seen this feature on ODN. Also, Ben is exactly right, a true 16x9 widescreen HD guide, (IF TWC ever chooses to support it,) will only be found on the new C-boxes and Samsungs (ODN.) The same is true with muti-room DVR (ODN only.) This is because hardware limitations in the legacy boxes, currently prevent the activation of this feature on MDN.

Catch-up features will gradually be added to MDN boxes. All boxes will get Guide Filtering, expanded search options, and MDN is also supposed to get Nearest Tune. Widespread E-SATA support remains MDN's biggest selling point, with a box based on Navigator/Mystro's original Navigator concept. Some have reported that the SA-8240 HDC's and SA-8300 HDC's slower running time may be due to the newer OCAP (ODN), Cable-Card and Java Applet Overloads. (i.e, the box is overworked.)

If you want the newer box with the bigger hard drive, the Samsung 3270 and Cisco 8600HDC's with the faster processors may be the way to go. But if you don't need a bigger hard drive, like E-SATA working, and your MDN box works well, you might as well hang on to it. If you never plan on a second DVR, than multi-room DVR planned for the newer boxes is a moot point.

There's not enough new features concerning ODN to swap boxes just for that at this time. Now if Muti-Room DVR comes out and tons of new features get widespread to ODN, people might want to switch. However, that new MDN DVR compensation feature remains a mystery as to why ODN does not have it.

Oh, and eventually Remote DVR Scheduling is coming to all the boxes and because some divisions have reported that they only are carrying SA-8240 to SA-8300C DVR's, I think MDN will still be around for a few more years. TWC just doesn't want to throw out the older SA-HDC's. So we'll see what happens.

Jack

Originally Posted by jcalabria

All true... but as the legacy box numbers are reduced from attrition, a point will be reached where the effort to upgrade MDN will be deemed to be not worth it. Not saying we're there yet, or even very soon (hell, there are still Pioneer Voyager and Explorer 1000 boxes out there... 8300HDs are brand new in comparison, lol)... but it will happen.

Originally Posted by Crazywoody

I think MDN has at least another eight years to be in service. Sooner or later everything will be ODN. For my thinkng later is when it will happen. Think 8 years. WOODY

Originally Posted by Satch Man

Now if Muti-Room DVR comes out and tons of new features get widespread to ODN, people might want to switch. However, that new MDN DVR compensation feature remains a mystery as to why ODN does not have it.Jack

Originally Posted by mfogarty5

Jack,

I've been told that multi-room DVR will be available here in Charlotte in the next month or two and Cisco boxes will be used. So, I could trade in two 8300HDs with a combined 320GB of capacity for two Cisco boxes with a combined 640GB capacity AND be able to watch the recorded shows from either box on either tv!

Now if TWC would implement a 16x9 guide that shows 3 hours of programming I would be all set!

Originally Posted by Crazywoody

I have never had a please wait message on my 8640HDC. My 8640 box so far ha been very fast and flawless. WOODY

Originally Posted by Satch Man

Sounds cool!

BTW, what is the TWC fee for a second DVR, and any subsequent DVR? I heard between $8-$10. Is it like the first DVR is $10 a month and all subsequent ones are $8 extra?

That might be the only muti-room DVR turn-off, the cost involved. Unless of course TWC would be willing to deal on individual cases.

Jack

Originally Posted by hdtvfan2005

I think the Samsung boxes don't support multi room. Only the Cisco 8642HDC and 4642HDC boxes have multi room. There is a multi room Samsung DVR and client STB, but TWC decided not to deploy it. I guess ODN v4.0 is coming out in the next month or two in Charlotte, and it would be nice to have it come out in San Diego as it would fix a few bugs.

Originally Posted by hdtvfan2005

FioS only allows for 1 Multi room DVR. This could very well happen with TWC. I'm sure with newer protocols, it might be expanded, but that would require an even newer box.

TWC San Diego has a deal where an additional DVR can be had for $2 month over the standard HD box fee. This is a good deal, as you could have more DVR's for $10 a month.

Another note on Navigator ODN: You can no longer record from the banner listing. If you scroll through the banner to a certain hour and hit select, nothing happens.