Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 47

Dave,

I've been doing a little research tonight on the cable requirements, and if I'm interpreting it right, it looks like they can be minimized with the use of DB Plus Separators (Diplexers), based on Dish's data.

Basically, there will be one cable per lnb to the 4x4 switch, two short cables from the switch to the diplexer, and from the diplexer, a single cable per receiver into the house, and into the area of the receiver, then the second diplexer and two short cables from the inside diplexer to the dual channel receiver. The output cable from the receiver to TV2 doesn't go outside, just to wherever TV2 resides. There are drawings for distribution of the TV2 signal cables to support multiple TV's, but I have no need for that anyway. I don't think that's excessive.

I plan to run a full complement of cables, without the diplexers, for the reasons I described in my last post.

Vic,

I guess the question then becomes who supplies all this equipment and how much does it all cost? I really like what I read about the new Dish HD DVR, but I've got to believe that post-OCAP/DCAS, stuff like that will become common-place for cable as well. Seems to me that this kind of technology leapfrogs. Cable releases something, sat releases something better, cable responds, etc. At least that's what I hope the future holds.

Dave,

I just noticed you live in AZ. Let me be the first to congratulate you on beating our 1974 record today for days with temps over 110 f., with 29 days.

We spent that fun-filled 1974 in Tempe, AZ. I never felt really uncomfortably hot, though, as it was impossible to raise a sweat, plus I spent all my time in air conditioned facilities. I loved AZ, but my wife couldn't wait to move on.

If you are a new sub, Dish charges $49 for the install (if you commit to 18 months of service they waive that charge, among other things) and it includes everything needed - Dish, LNBs, cable runs, and all switches required for a "standard four room installation". My understanding from reading the Dish forums is that as a new sub, you just need make sure that you tell them upfront what you want, and they'll do pretty much everything you ask. I have two HD sets and one SD...they would provide at no charge a VIP722 (which I'd put on one set as a dual tuner DVR), and a VIP222 (HD Dual Tuner), that I'd use as an HD tuner on the other HDTV and backfeed the second tuner to my SD set. I'd plan on buying another DVR on ebay....and replacing the 222 with a VIP622 set up the same way. Dish will only lease you a max of 4 tuners...so 4 single tuner boxes or 2 two tuner boxes...and they'll only lease you one DVR in that mix (so figure the cost of buying if you are like me and want a DVR in three locations).

With the current Dish incentives for an 18 month commitment, I come out $25/month less expensive with Dish over the 18 months (including the cost of buying a 622 DVR @ $350-$400) with the same level of programming as TWC (Digital Tier, HD Tier, HBO, SHO). The core difference is that I currently have 3 dual tuner 8300HD/HDC DVRs, and would end up moving to 2 dual tuner DVRs, with one shared between an HD and SD set...which given the SD set is a bedroom tv that is infrequently used, works out just fine.

I was in the Air Force from '66 until '93, so we weren't here in '74. My wife is from Phoenix (I'm from Wisconsin) and I was stationed at Luke from 68-71.

Anyway, we always planned on returning and that's what we did in '94. Being a letter carrier now, the heat hasn't really bothered me until this year and even then only a few days when the radiated heat was oppressive. My daughter lived in Fayettteville for several years, so I'm familar with NC and we really liked it there except for the humidity.

We'd consider moving, but we figure it will be easier to get out of here for much of the summer and then enjoy the other 8 months of nice weather than limiting our alternatives during the winter months somewhere else. There are only so many places you can go during the winter whereas the whole country, especially New England and Canada, is open during the summer.

Thanks for the info. I see the price difference is mostly because you are leasing less hardware from Dish than you were from cable, but you are getting more HD content in the mix. It surprises me though that if you were able to lease the same hardware, Dish might actually cost a tad more.

Actually Dave, the FCC is considering regulations that would REQUIRE (not "allow") cable to downconvert digital channels ("dual carry")to analog.

Discussions in the past (but not in the current discussions) have tossed around a 2012 date.

Well the reason is that long ago Congress passed laws that required regulation of cable and that cable must carry local OTA stations such that they are
(See page 6 of FCC doc below). There is no similar "must-carry" Congressional requirements for satellite.

Regarding, hindering their ability to compete: These requirements only require that of local channels (maybe up to 72MHz of space on cable), not all the "Expanded Basic" channels (420MHz) currently on cable. So to comply with this proposed rulemaking a cable system could dump (in my example) 348 MHz of analog space, providing room for 116 HD channels (at 2 per QAM). Also, it's pretty clear that IF a cable system has somehow (as Comcast in Chicago is doing) actually convert their entire system to digital, then the requirements to make the digital stations "viewable" would be satisfied.

Another, area that they are exploring is that of degrading the HD channels. There is a prohibition of "material degradation", but no definition of that.

While I've provided links below to the FCC Document (as usual, these FCC documents are fairly hard to follow), I've also provided a link to a Multichannel News article on the FCC action.

Multichannel News Article on Proposed Rulemaking

Here is the FCC Notice of Proposed Rulemaking

Yea that is pretty hot. However, here in Raleigh NC we hit 107 a couple of weeks back. The humidity was ridiculous that day also. The heat index was up over 115. It felt like walking in the worlds largest Sauna when you went outside. In fact it rained in the evening that night!

It dropped from 100 to 80 in 40 seconds at 8:00 PM! We were watching the thermometer as a mini tornado raced in front of us. Kind of freaky! The weather has really been unusual here this year.

I have a new 8300hdc dvr that is having problems with series
recordings. It seems to record "new" shows of series that are only
broadcast once a week fine. However, when I want to program only the
first run of a show that appears daily, I can't. I'll select the show
to record in either the daily guide or by search and choose to record
only new shows. However going to the list, the show doesn't appear.

If I select record all shows (new and repeats), this will work but
then of course, I would have to delete all the repeats.

Re-booting a couple of times hasn't helped and of course TW c/s can't
imagine what the problem might be.

I suspect this is a flaw in Navigator rather than a bad box. Has
anyone else experienced this, much less solved the problem.

Thanks,
Ron

I can record series for Daily Show and Colbert Report, for example (which are daily and re-broadcast more than once a day), with new episodes only....is that what you are saying you can't do?

Just be thankful that you HAVE an option! Far as I know, I can only "see" the basic Direct bird, not the ones they are coming online with. AND it is possible I may have a huge fight to mount a dish on the outside of my building... the building can block that. BUT, there also the broadband issue. I frequently work from home, so the 3MB DSL is too slow. IF I could switch to satellite, I'm looking at 15 bucks more per month for RoadRunner (it would be 60 for 7Mb/s, while with a cable account I pay 45).

Oh, no OTA here as well.

The ONLY choice is FIOS... but that "choice" I'm not anticipating for 2-3 years. I hear they are starting to run fiber at the southern end of Manhattan. There is confusion about whether they will or won't go into apartments. Even if they do NOT, it took TWC a good 2 years to run fiber up to my 'hood, no reason to think Verizon will do that task in a few months. And if they run fiber into apartments, add another year at least.

Wouldn't that mean that the "no cable box," cheapest cable accounts would ALL have to purchase converter boxes?

Still 2/2009 is pretty meaningless at this point. I dare say SDV is be 100% deployed by that point, so dropping a few analogs in 2009 will hardly merit a notice (obvious perspective of HD fanatics, 'natch).

Indeed I am thankful for that. I'm sorry to hear that you may not have one available to you. I know that there are many who, for a variety of reasons, cannot make a move, and they have my best wishes.

I'm sure that the problems Navigator brings will be worked out in time, but I suspect it will be a little ugly for a while, especially painful for those who have enjoyed Passport or Sara on their 8300HDs up until now.

Oh gack! I have actual medical issues with excessive heat/humidity and find that each summer seems to get a tad worse (and I live in NYC). A tad worse here dues to so much concrete that holds heat real good! A couple of weeks each summer have nights never going below 80. Been thinking of the arctic circle... but WTF do I do about cable/satellite?

I find it interesting how differently TWC prices the same service everywhere...I have TWC Roadrunner premium (8m down 512k up)...and it is $50/month with cable tv service, $55/month standalone ($40 / $45 for basic Roadrunner 5m/384k). So my leaving penalty is $5...and this is on a $195/month account.

I'm feeling pissed off at TWC at the moment for two things...there support for Cable Cards is a joke - making my TiVo HD experience stink, and the Navigator 8300 is junk compared to even their own Passport 8300. They have me ready to drop $150/month of service because they are either idiots or just don't give a damn.

I have really been happy with TWC for a while. But man... After looking at the list of channels DirecTV is about to launch, combined with Navigator I have to admit I am thinking about it.

The really bad thing is that I really want more HD channels, and TWC has tied their ability to provide more HD channels to launching a poor product. Even if we in Austin with SARA DON'T get Navigatored because of the issues with it, it will likely slow down the negotiations for HD contracts (I would *really* like to see the last season of BSG in HD first-run).

I too have many questions about Satellite - however it does seem a bit off-topic for this thread. Maybe we need to start a 'Jump ship! The Navigator is taking us into the 'bergs' thread?

xnappo

Well, that's a good example of what I'm talking about and the odd thing is that I'm pretty sure that before the Daily Show went on hiatus it was recording the first run each day correctly. I'm having problems with MSNBC, where I'd like to record Hardball and Countdown. They both work if I record new and repeats but won't record just new. I guess I'll try doing a series recording of a soap opera to see if this is channel dependent.

Is that even possible?

The main Directv satellite is at 101, and the new one just launched is at 103. The one being launched by the end of the year will be at 99, so I would certainly think is you can see the main, you would HAVE to be able to see the new ones. My problem is I cannot see the one at 119, but all of the new HD content will be on the 99 and 103 birds, so at worst I loose a couple of channels. But I get Sci-Fi and my Raleigh locals (on 103) in HD, and that will me my main recording.

Yeah, I wonder if it might be channel dependent...I don't have many series recordings on the Navigator box. I did look at the recording logs and noticed that a number of the earlier recordings of Daily & Colbert had not recorded and had the error message talked about here recently "tuner unavailable", when it was the only thing recording. I had hard reset it several times since those failed recordings (due to the box locking up completely when using VoD).
Perhaps if you reboot your box a couple of times, and then test like you mentioned, you can get your recording working correctly. Have you looked at the recording log to see what it says?

Has anyone been able to confirm eSATA support in Navigator? My 8300HD with Passport seems about to die, and I am afraid I will be forced to switch to Navigator when TWC replaces it. I do not want to lose my expanded DVR capacity.

Thanks,
Ted

You can search this thread...there are posts of it working successfully, including trick play - which may be the only advantage to Navigator 8300 over Passport. I haven't tried myself, so YMMV...but the reports are good.

The box is so new I haven't even looked for the log. But I don't think that will make any difference because the problematic series don't appear in the list of scheduled recordings.

As for a hard reset, is this right? You turn off the box for a while, remove the power cord for a while, then replace the power cord *while holding down the power button* until the box boots?

Yes, I just meant to reboot the box.. on the front panel of the 8300 just press the Info button plus the Vol Down (-) and Vol Up (+) buttons at the same time until it reboots.

Chris gave you the correct answer. HOWEVER, don't expect the new cable box to be able to play the recordings that you currently have on your external drive. The recordings are encrypted with a key that is unique to the DVR that recorded them - so you wouldn't be able to play recordings on the external drive on a new box (even if the new box also ran Passport).

Absolutely agree...should have said that myself. I read the OP's question as one of "not losing the capability" to record to external drive...All the 8300 external drives are keyed to the individual box they are attached to and will not play attached to any other 8300.
Thanks for the clarification.

I was puzzled by the fact that I can record only new episodes of some shows but not others. For instance, I can record "Flight of the Conchords" on HBO and capture only the first showing of the week of a new episode. But I can't record only the first showing of a news program such as "Hardball" on MSNBC. I would have to record all showings and delete the repeats.

TWC's explanation is that the box needs a "New" flag to program a series the way Passport did when you chose a specific time rather than "All Showings." News type programs don't have the "New" flag so Navigator doesn't know what to do with them.

The only workaround is to manually record the first showing for each day that the guide goes out.

Welcome to VCR tech in the 80s.

Ron

Well, this is the way SARA has always been... How can Passport know it is new if it doesn't have the flag? Does it keep track of the description or something?

You can at least set up something like 'all episodes in this timeslot' on SARA. Can you not do that on Navigator?

xnappo

Passport will also record multiples of "new only series recordings" on shows that don't have a proper guide flag....HBO shows are a good example...I would have the Soprano's set for "new only" and it would record every time the same episode played.

Ron,

Is there in fact a NEW episode in the guide for that week? I know that with SARA we cannot schedule a series recording for NEW episodes if there is not at least one NEW episode that week. If will look like it accepted the schedule, but there will be nothing there because it couldn't find a NEW episode to use to set a place-holder for the recording. Just a thought.

You are the man when it comes to this stuff. The problem I still have is that after Feb 2009, the only available channel to broadcast is digital and cable will broadcast that, you just can't receive it if you don't have a digital tuner. From what I read in what you PM'd me, cable is asking for the authority to downconvert so they can meet the broadcast requirement. This is where I say the FCC is tying cable's hands with competing rules; analogs go away, but cable still has to broadcast them in analog, but they are only available in digital, and they can't downconvert. You tell me how they meet that rule!

And I know it only applies to OTA local channels and I know why it only applies to cable, but that doesn't mean it's right or that I have to like it.

If the FCC wants cable to be a national provider inspite of competition from satellite, then they need to provide something that allows cable to meet the goal and still remain competitive. They set up the cable franchise monopoly, they allowed sat to be digital only (with the competitive advantage), they decided analogs would go away, and now they still want to demand that cable continue to proivide anaolg service, again at a competitive disadvantage. Just how fair is that? Even if you dislike cable, you have to admit it's simply not fair at all.

And don't even get me started on the advantage telco's now have not having to go through the local franchise process. Cable is still cable whether it's coax, fiber, or 4-strand wire for crying out loud.