Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 48

Correct on all accounts, with the caveats Dave Hancock pointed out.

By making a rule that they must.
I agree - BUT, it wasn't the FCC - It was Congress. They passed laws that directed the FCC to do these things (starting in 1992)!

BTW: The stuff that I PM'd you (and later posted here) is not too clear on who wants what. Truth is: Cable doesn't want anyone telling them what to do (pre-1992 thinking). And the NAB wants cable to do their total bidding. The FCC sees a train-wreck coming Feb 19, 2009 and wants to minimize the size of it. The Consumer Electronics Industry wants any excuse to wrest control away from cable, the Republicans.............., and the Democrats........


In reality, I believe that what will (must) emerge from the FCC is a ruling requiring dual carriage of local digital TV stations (one "native" resolution, on NTSC analog) UNLESS, the cable system has converted to 100% digital and the customers have boxes that work with their existing TVs on all digital formats.

Stay cool out there.

The Other Dave,

Yes, yes, it was Congress, the FCC are just the ones that do their bidding.

If you were cable, what would you want?

There is a train-wreck coming, but it won't affect me. It will only affect folks who use minimal cable service (AFAIK 2-99). While that is still a large number, I personally don't care. I'm so tired of legacy issues, not only with the DTV transition, but with Windows, etc.

It's understanable that cable doesn't want to have to buy 35M STBs for their cheap ( ) customers. It's also understandable that if they have to broadcast local analogs that they'd also want to be able to downconvert the expanded basic channels as well. Let's face it, if all they can downconvert is the locals, what's the point? How many subs only get 2-22 (not counting internet-only subs)?

I'm actually quite cool. There was a nice breeze today and we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. We did mange to extend the 1970/1972 record to 30 days >110, but hey, that's what records are for, right? Just so you know, 110 here is a lot different that 100 or so where you are, the humidity plays a major role in discomfort, though I do do my share of sweating.

The problem with the navigator guide is that say for a show like Entourage or Flight of the Conchords it shows every airing that week as new. They may have fixed the fact that if you set it to record new shows of a series it didn't record all of those. It used to be that it recorded them all. Now you can only edit the start time but if they show at that time on any HBO channels during the week they will record. I didn't use this a lot with Passport but I never has a serious problem with series recordings with that software either. That and the fact that I never have gotten good results from series recordings anyway with Navigator have pushed me over to just manually setting them. Even with that it still misses recordings. Not just sporadically but on an at least 5% basis. 1 missed recording out of 100 is acceptable. This 1 in 20 chance is just a crapshoot and shouldn't be something I pay for.

Nothing good has come from this software and at this point nothing ever will, it is starting to wear on me. It has taken some time and I have been patient but with the fall line up starting soon I am starting to get antsy about it again. There is nothing worse that coming home to watch an episode of lets say "Lost" only to find out your box had one of the "channel not available" meltdowns again and decided it couldn't record it even though you can plainly see the last 5 minutes on said unavailable channel.

TWC has more of a problem on their hands than anyone here, or there for that matter, knows. If they continue to roll this out this software this thread will be even more hoppin' in about 5-6 weeks. In the 9-10 months time I have had this software you would think basic things like dependability would be getting fixed by now, not worse.

TW, "We think like you think" but only if you happen to be a retarded monkey.

Now your just being mean to retarded monkeys!

It sure sounds there are 2 problems at work here. The Navigator software itself should have nothing to do with programs being flagged as New, that should be an indicator in the database. But, if programs are incorrectly flagged in the database, that could be impacting Navigator's ability to record the right programs at the right times. And, if the programs are incorrectly flagged, then folks still using SARA or Passport on the same system should also be affected, unless Navigator also requires a different database.

No, because my version of Navigator has no notion of a "timeslot." That's how Passport worked. If the first weekly showing was at Sunday at 10PM, you just asked it to record only that timeslot.

The shows that I can't series record are news type shows that have a new "episode" everyday but are not flagged as such.

The problem is that "New" flagging is inconsistent and since there is no timeslot option, any series that hasn't got the flag can only record every showing.

The TWC rep I spoke with about series recording was part of a somewhat more savvy group dedicated to supporting the HD boxes of both flavors. He understood my frustration with the flagging/lack of timeslot issue and volunteered "why Navigator is so slow." The system is strained by having to support two sw platforms simultaneously, so the allocation of resources has be set to favor people with Passport boxes!

Oh. Well that sucks!

xnappo

Passport is affected in the same way as Navigator regarding recording multiple copies of shows that aren't flagged correctly as New on the initial showing, like all the HBO & SHO series...

Passport does allow you to select recording by both channel and time, allowing you to manually override this basic guide deficiency.

Navigator has no time slot or channel recording options, so you're stuck.

I'm not arguing that you were told this by TWC...but it sounds like a huge pile of BS from them, as TWC has done nothing new with Passport for at least a year that I can remember, and they are replacing it with Navigator...so why are their resources dedicated to the platform they are getting rid of and not the one they are deploying?

I'm sure the rep could have been repeating something he'd heard from management without knowing what he was talking about. But the resources he was citing seemed to be bandwidth not development and since the installed base of Passport users seems to be larger at this point than those with Navigator they decided to further penalize the minority guinea pigs.

I still think it's probably a rationalization: Navigator is probably so slow mainly because it's a POS.

Two questions about Passport and Navigator:

I currently have Passport on my SA 8300 DVR. If I do nothing to a recording after saving it, how long will the show be saved? What is the default setting? I have heard "two weeks" and also "until space is needed." Which is correct?

Also, if and when my DVR gets upgrdaded to Navigator, what are the default settings for how long a show will be saved using Navigator on an SA 8300 DVR?

Jack

Is this also because the software is not sensitive to content on the screen, rather than the time that a show is set to record? For example a movie, sports event, or individual programs of a selected series would be easier for Navigator to understand because it's an individualized program in a given time frame. If you try to automatically record, let's say a news program or something on Court TV, my guess is that the DVR can't differentiate between when the channel would be in the studio or when the channel would be live on location in news, or in court waiting for a verdict on Court TV. This is where a typical VCR might have an advantage over a DVR because with a VCR, you could be more selective on content within a show.

DVR's (and I presume Tivo's as well.) have that Ron Popiel, "set it and forget it" phrase really built into the technology. This is great for movies and sports, but it can be harder for selective recordings with individualized content within time periods.

Jack

I've noticed on another passport DVR in my house that we don't do much recording on, the programs will stay until space is needed. Some of the recorded programs are over a year old.

Well, I've put the feelers out about DirecTV today. Just to gather some info for the type of setup I'd need. The head of TWC public relations told me we are not getting Navigator until the first quarter of next year and people I've talked to who are getting new DVR boxes are getting the 8300HDC loaded with SARA in our market. I'm all for Navigator IF they get it working as advertised with ALL the features and running stable. If the saddle me with this piece of crap I will be ready to move to DirecTV even though it will cost me more. That or I will drop their DVR service for Tivo (assuming they are coming out with a unit that can do SDV and VOD).

As I continue to get corrupted recordings, even after removing the eSATA drive from my 8300HD with Passport, I will roll the dice with Navigator. How slow is it really? Anyone in the Raleigh/Durham area care to comment?

Thanks,
Ted

The heart of this issue is good metadata. And therein lies the rub. Pretty sure TWC gets it's schedule data from TV Guide. TV Guide you'd think could come up with good data, but I've looked through their printed magazine and there are MANY errors on shows that have the "New" tag. I've seen shows that have the "New" tag for 3-4 rebroadcasts. If you ask them, they'll simply say the blame goes to the network not giving them good data. Then you say to them "But you're an editorial organization, don't you have ANY process to vet such things?"

News shows sometimes are best set up blindly... as in record from 6:30 to 7:00 PM every day on channel 2.

That was NOT my experience at all. All the non-movie shoes on HBO, SHO seems to work correctly, only recording the really new shows.

Not so sure that's correct, Verizon (from what I read) sure as hell needs a franchise agreement from the same city body that franchises TWC to provide TV services/FIOS. Not to deliver phone or Internet, but for TV yes. Again from what I've read, there are some places they are apparently set to go, but are still waiting on the franchise agreement with the city.

Having said that, I DO make a leap that the same happens everywhere else... but I suppose it IS possible they can do it without any government agency somewhere. Still, my bet would be they aren't interested in doing all that work for a city of 300,000. Eventually yes, but NOT any time soon.

I'm on TWC Raleigh-Durham...and have one of the Navigator 8300s...
It is slower than Passport, but is as fast (maybe faster) than the new TiVo HD I tried out. Every time you press List, it rebuilds the list of recordings...takes a solid 2 seconds to display. It isn't slow to the point of un-usable...but it might bug you. The bigger issues to me are the lack of jump-back when FF, the lack of the 15 min "tick" advance, the lack of recording options, such as no channel selection, no time-slot selection, no deletion selections (keep till space needed / don't delete) for series recordings (until you actually playback the recorded program). There are probably other things as well, but those are the things that I'm missing. Also, there are issues with it just not recording some back to back recordings for no reason, and the reboot time is very long...maybe 10 minutes or so. So long, I never wait to see exactly.

The version of Navigator I have does give you the option to record new shows at a certain time (for example you can set it for 9:00 PM). There is no channel or day specification though. So anytime that show starts at 9 throughout the week it records if it is still called "new" by the guide. Also if it were to start a couple minutes later (or earlier) in the guide that week it won't record at all. So yes it isn't a total navigator problem but a TV Guide problem for calling everything that week a "new" episode. That type of recording is too random for me. Like I said I just do it manually, and then maybe light a candle and say a quick prayer to the gods of occasionally functional software.

I never really used series recordings much with Passport either but when I did they usually worked for the most part.

Thanks for the feedback. According to this document, the 15 minute advance is available:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Media...NavEnhance.pdf

Although we may not yet have this feature in the Triangle.

Ted

I had seen that before and got excited but...it doesn't work on the version we have. Another thing that is missing (but is in the referenced info), no Series Recording Priority settings...you cant re-order the priority of your series recordings, and their is no "Air Time" setting in series recordings either (which someone else mentioned today that they have). Don't know the versions of software (or where to find it on Navigator - Channel 999 doesn't provide the diag screen like Passport)...but there is obviously a version that is better than what we are using in Raleigh-Durham.

Dorny, (Or anyone else with this issue.)

Does this issue only occur on series recordings or for everything else as well? (such as movies and sports for example?)

Jack

Ha, the gas gauge, the 15 minute jump plus caller id seems to be the ONLY differences with Passport. Except from what I read, an awful lot of what they document for Navigator simply doesn't work. I could VERY easily live without those features, ESPECIALLY for software that CAN deliver those things (Passport in my case, SARA in other cases, although it looks like Passport is going away before SARA).

Passport has 15 minute jump...so the only thing is the gas gauge (which is actually useful). Callerid is only for people who subscribe to TWC digital phone...so if you don't, it isn't different than Passport either.

Although, as you say, most of these features (along with some basic stability) aren't working (on my version of Navigator), but at least there is hope they will, since they are documenting them.

I picked up a new 8300HDC today. I can see now why Navigator is slow. It appears to be written in Java which is ridiculous. No one does anything in real-time with Java, and HD broadcasts almost certainly need to be real-time or close to it anyway. Java is a pig. No amount of optimization will make it fast. I see a DISH VIP722 in my future...

It is really too bad since I have had really reliable service from TWC this last year, but taking a step back (Passport->Navigator) like this is the same reason I left D* in the first place (HDTivo->HR20). Perhaps I am too picky, but I do not think it too much to ask for a reliable DVR with features that have been around since the Tivo Series 2 that also does HD. I am even willing to pay for it. If I didn't think the Tivo HD or Series 3 were dead-ends, I would buy one of those and suffer the pain of cable-card.

Ted