Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 471

LMFAO!!!!! I know, I swear he has GOT to work for TWC despite denying it!!!! If not, he worships TWC even more than the people who work for TWC!!!! hahahaha!!! Steve should be TWC's new TV ad guy!!! LOL!!!

Jack

I generally post all my Navigator info here. I could start posting there, but I can easily foresee Steve bogging up legit threads with his bias. He is convinced that Navigator is better than virtually every other guide out there.

UPDATE: Time Warner is coming out 11/23, I'll report what they find.

I just swapped my cable box for an 4640hdc yesterday. I have it hooked thru hdmi. I can only receive HD channels. If I try any SD channels I get a "not supported mode" message. Has anyone had this issue? Do you think I need a different cable box? The box is connected through an Onkyo receiver and then to a Samsung tv. The issue also occurs when connected directly to the tv. SD Channels work fine through composite connection but I need them to work through hdmi like the last cable box I had. I couldn't find any way to adjust the settings of the cable box to get this to work.

Did you try rebooting???
I think SDV needs a double boot....first to enable, second to find it.
And, as always, give TWC a call....

Sup Ben,

Yea, you and are are posting more blog posts over at TWC Untangled. I think that we should still do this, anyway, Ben if you get a good tech when he comes, feel free to outline some of the points we have made about Navigator, and maybe get some answers from him. I posted the following to the blog. I said that I agree with Ben about the crappy DVR's and Navigator Software, than posted the following in response to the TWC blogger over there that makes a big deal about "Look Back." Here is what I said verbatim:

**************************************************

The problem is that Look Back, Start Over, Caller ID on TV, all these other little applets is that they do not address the restoring of essential features that we lost in the Passport to Navigator transition.

When, when, when, are we going to see 2010 type features on Navigator? You guys are dragging your feet on Navigator updates too much! Where is Keyword Search, Guide Filtering, and Manual Recording? Why aren’t the HDC boxes at least up to the speeds of the OLDER MDN 8300 DVR’s, if not faster? These things should be TWC’s top priority? Are we getting Navigator Keyword Search soon? It is very disappointing that TWC has had Navigator in the field for six years, and basic essential features that were on the Passport software in 2002, are STILL missing from Navigator going into 2011?!!

Sorry, but if I was asked to try to promote Navigator at a Consumer Electronics Show or something, I’d be embarrassed because of the lack of basic features and functionality! You’ve got an A-grade Digital Phone Service, an A-Grade High Speed Internet Service, and a C- grade program guide in Navigator.

Your goal should be to prove Ben and me wrong by adding Keyword Search, Manual Recording, and Guide Filtering next year. By the end of 2011, get Navigator to support great things like working out a deal with NetFlix, On-Line Streaming Video Services, Video Game Channels, and Interactive Polling! THAT’S what Navigator should be right now!!! The competition is killing you in program guide features and functionality, and it’s sad, because you guys don’t seem to care about Navigator.

But like I said, TWC, this is your chance to prove us wrong by caring about Navigator and adding the above features next year and beyond. Customers interact with their program guides every single day! We can’t even get a true HD 16×9 guide on the boxes!!! No, I don’t mean the stretched guide on the Samsungs, but a true HD Navigator Guide!

I don’t expect a miracle for Navigator, but a starting point would be nice. How about Keyword Search for the keyboard by or before March 2011. You could really get the customers so involved with Navigator. You could take requests for new features that go right to the Programmers and Engineers for a “Feature of the Month.” Everyone could become actively involved throughout TWC divisions to make Navigator a truly great guide!

The customers would love some new guide features and improved functionality! Please bring new features to Navigator more often and in a timely manner.

Jack

Good points Jack - I heard someone saying they were not going to add features like Keyword search because "no one wants it". I'll be honest, I want it, but it's not a priority for me. I really just want the box to be stable and them to add a robust guide filter. The guide filter is my NUMBER ONE feature request because of our piss poor channel alignment.

And even on MDN 3.0, their Guide Filtering is only temporary?! I mean what kind of b.s is that! But unless it gets changed when it comes to ODN, I know why they did it. They don't want a permanent guide filter, because than people would hide the channels they subscribe to and forget about them. They WANT people to see a movie listed on a Premium Channel, knowing that they don't have the channel and than call and get the package.

It's probably why they don't want what you suggested a while back, the ability to remove channels from your line up that you don't watch. Fortunately, we have a nice themed line up in Wisconsin at least! Remember I showed it to you? So, if the filter is only gonna be temporary, leave it to TWC to take what could have been a good idea, and turn it into a dumb execution.

But one thing is for sure. I found out that MDN 3.0 matches the feature sets of ODN AND has no speed slow down issues, so now we have an older box that is better than the supposed newer technology of ODN. Maybe now that MDN 3.0 is going to be the final features update because they no longer make MDN boxes, TWC can put more focus on ODN! I honestly think Java crippled the HDC boxes speed capabilities.

My hope is that enough customers see how great Keyword Description search is on DVR Manager, like it so much, and enough mainstream customers, instead of just us, petitioning them like broken records for new features. Say "Hey I want Keyword Search on the box!"

Ben, have you checked out your division's Remote DVR Manager recently? Mine has been working flawlessly for the past several weeks!

Jack

Check your box Display settings and display resolution on your cable box. Check audio settings as well, and make sure that HDMI is enabled on the box for both video and audio. If everything matches and the problem is not solved, turn off the TV and the box, unplug the TV and the box. Disconnect the cables from the box. Disconnect the HDMI cable also and leave everything off for about a minute. Leaving everything still off, reconnect each cable and the HDMI cable, plugging everything back in one by one. Don't turn the TV back on until the cable box has rebooted and the Clock is showing in the display.

Don't plug the HDMI to the receiver, just yet to isolate it temporarily in trying to resolve this issue. You just want the cables connected to your cable box and your TV connected through HDMI cable.

With everything reconnected and the cable clock showing, turn on your TV after the box reboots. Is the problem solved? If not, I would try a different HDMI cable, (get another new one.) You can leave the TV plugged in and the box as well, when you connect the new HDMI cable, but for best results, have the TV and box OFF when you connect the HDMI cable.

If a new HDMI cable does not solve the problem, your options are going to be try a new box, or switch to component cable if your current box is OK with that.

If everything is OK and than you output to your receiver, and through that hook up, you have a problem with the receiver, you will have to adjust your receiver settings where it may not work with a combination of HDMI and the cable box. (i.e switch to component in this case.)

Jack

Haven't used Remote DVR in awhile, but there hasn't been any new series for me to set up.

A major problem in our division is Navigator not scheduling right. Multiple people I've talked to throughout the division have stated that when they add a recording to Navigator it doesn't accept it. They find they have to go into the guide and add it two and sometimes three times before it shows up as scheduled. Since 4.0 came out here there have been numerous issues.

Also, if they don't address the features missing from Navigator, I will likely get a Tivo or Moxi. I made a post on their blog about it. I don't buy the people will see what they are missing argument. EVERY OTHER provider offers a robust guide filter. There is no reason Time Warner can't. That excuse doesn't hold water - if that's the case then why have parental controls where I can block entire channels and descriptions?

I don't believe that you are correct - in fact, I'd say that EVERY OTHER CABLE provider also DOES NOT have a guide filter. I daughters on Comcrap (St. Paul, MN) and FiOS (Montgomery County, MD) and they don't have it.

I do believe that your rationale as to WHY they don't have it is correct - but that rationale applies to Comcrap as well as Verizon.

I'm not talking about cable providers. I'm talking about Satellite. Satellite has had guide filtering pretty much sich they have had a guide.

Sorry, I was commenting on what you said in that post and trying to set the record straight.

No prob Dave, I should have been more clear in the post as to what I was referring to. It did come off as inclusive of other cable ops and I don't mind if someone points out an err in my post as I want accurate info here. I concur with you that pretty much all cable ops have garbage guides. As for now, the main thing holding me off of a Moxi is cost. It's $799 for a Moxi with a Moxi Mate and they don't include OTA tuner. The end cost may be cheaper because there is no monthly fee, but that would take awhile to recoup. Tivo may be a better option, but I like the MRV of the Moxi and that I can stream live content off a free tuner without the need for a set top rental.

Well if that's their thinking then they've got their heads up their tailpipe. Out channel lineup down here in the Binghamton, NY region is so fragmented and illogical that a viewer would spend 20 minutes just finding a movie to watch. The pay premium channels are in the 250-300 range, 750 range, 900's and 1100's. Some are duplicates while others are not. We have SD, HD and digital versions of many channels and their scattered all over the guide. It's impossible to remember where these all are so we just utilize the familiar ones; the channels we watch the most and ignore the 90% of the rest. We have VOD channels scattered all over the place, some are in the middle of the HD network lineups and others would take you half a day of surfing the guide to find them. What I really hate is the porn channels and their descriptive titles that are readily viewed by the kids. Those should be hidden, period. Accessed by a parental code only.
If TWC wants to encourage viewers to buy PPV or VOD offerings then they would do themselves a big favor by grouping all of these things in the same section of the guide so when I want to purchase one, I don't have to spend 30 minutes trying to find what's available. Because guess what - I won't.

I really don't know how you guys manage without the guide filtering and since the favorite sorting got neutered.

When I'm scrolling through all the channels to remove them from my Moxi it blows my mind how many there are now and just how many are duplicates or just plain unnecessary.

I found out that TWC rolled out MDN 3.0 to some markets,

The good news is that it has Guide Filtering where you can sort by Favorite Channels, HD Channels Only, Subscribed Channels. But from what I heard, the filtering is only temporary with the active searches that a customer uses.

A plus is that Favorite Channels has two options. You can move to each Favorite by pressing the FAV button OR choose to have the FAV button bring up a Favorites Window, where you can scroll through your Favorites and select them that way.

Nearest Tune comes to the MDN boxes in this version.

Guide Data Information is finally complete (non-truncated.)

Start Over now has expanded options.

These features will probably come to ODN early next year. I hope that Keyword Search is included in the next Navigator Update. They should change the Guide Filtering to be permanent.

I am still waiting for someone with an MDN box to come in here and talk about the new updates!

Jack

Agreed. Nothing irks me more than wading through 200 channels I don't care about (some appearing as many as three or four times!) just to find what I'm looking for. That and the fact no one else in my house bothers to set things up for HD because the channels are buried in the 700, 800, & 900 tiers with no corresponding numbers. Our channel alignment is one of the worst I've ever seen.

Do you have a three tuner Moxi? A Moxi Mate? I'm very interested in getting that or a Tivo because Navigator is just SO bad. Can you give me some info on it? Maybe via PM so we don't clog up this thread. I'm willing to see what Navigator brings with Multi-Room, but if they don't make significant changes I'm going to have to look at another option.

No MDN 3.0 here. I checked my fathers and he is still at 2.5. Sounds like a big improvement, but alas - MDN won't have support for MRV!

I did look at DirecTV again, but they are just missing too many HD networks that Time Warner has and some networks altogether. I actually debating cutting the cord and just going with an OTA setup ( I get about 23 channels, many HD) and an HTPC or standard Tivo with OTA tuner. I could just get a high end Roadrunner package and drop the Phone and Cable. The sad thing about this is that if they just corrected the bugs and deficiencies within Navigator to merely make it "acceptable" I'd be content.

I have a Moxi and Mate, just jump over to the Moxi thread if you want to see what people have been saying lately.

In short:
1. SDV still sucks. Tuning Adapter works most of the time but still sucks and the Cisco unit prevents the third tuner from working. CableCARD is awkward and temperamental and installation can be a disaster depending on how competent your TWC market is.
2. Channel lock failures mean you sometimes have to flip between channels repeatedly to get the channel to show up.
3. As long as you expect only a DVR box then you probably won't be disappointed. I'm convinced Moxi have stopped development on new features to move the team to the pet hardware project of their new owners.

I still much prefer it over Navigator (favorite channel menu filter and the ability to remove all excess channels!) and would never go back voluntarily but it's not without it's issues - a lot going back to TWC and their infrastructure and hardware again - and it has interface quirks that require learning to live with.

Yup, the tuning adapter was an issue I was worried about. I'll check out the Moxi thread and see what is going on.

Ben,

Why couldn't you keep TWC, but get a Tivo and a tuning adapter? You would have a modern guide with TWC programing and no more Crapigator b.s. And, you would be able to return the crappy DVR and save that $12.95 for just having a DVR. Not sure, but I think Tivo gives you all that multi-room stuff now. I know you can get Netflix videos too!

If you could live without TWC VOD and Caller ID on TV, that might be the way for you to go. I keep having this image that the service call you have scheduled, they aren't gonna do much, or your gonna get an idiot who can't do anything.

But maybe you'll get somewhere with that service call. But I think there is almost going to have to be something on the line causing your issues. I could see the video stuttering going away with a line replacement and maybe a better picture, but I haven't heard of Navigator speeding up because of a line replacement.

Are you gonna see if you can get an MDN box from the tech, just to get this slowness issue to go away? You can always swap that out for Multi-room if the new boxes are fast and reliable.

Hey, your friends and people in your node with the same issues? Did they set up service calls too? I just hope you get someone with a brain! LOL!

Jack

I'm not sure about others in my area, but I know that I'm the only feed coming off my tap. I'll find out tomorrow morning what they have to say.

Well, the Time Warner tech just left. It was the same tech I usually get and he is a good guy who has come out before. He is knowledgeable and helpful. He has always listened to what I had to say and knows that I'm tech savvy to understand what he is talking about. He brought in his laptop and showed me the Time Warner software and how they poll the box (note I didn't see that they can tell if you did a hard drive mod) and showed me how they check remotely. He then pulled up the diags and hooked directly into my line to verify what I already knew - the levels are as good as they can be. There is nothing wrong with the service to the home. The problems are all Navigator and he can't do anything about them. So, then we started talking Navigator...

He plainly said "It's crap" and went on to say it has created a massive amount of truck rolls. I explained all my issues, but couldn't duplicate the audio stutter. He basically said, that's the way it is and we have to wait out the updates. When asked if he knew when they were coming, he didn't. However, he did confirm he has a different version of ODN. We were talked about lost features not carried over from SARA and I mentioned lack of 4th FFW. He said his 8640 has a 4th FFW, but because he is an employee that he gets to test new releases. I also inquired about Multi Room DVR and he has no release date for it, but said he is NOT looking forward to Signature Home from what he knows about it.

The bottom line is that the service call went exactly how I said it would. The tech would confirm the levels are fine and chalk up the issues to being Navigator. I hold no grudge or fault against the tech. He is the same the set up the service and came out once before to fix a line issue that caused SDV problems. He even went so far as to say that other divisions are having success with this release of Navigator. Then said if I got tired at my old job "maybe you could come work down at our headend" and we both laughed. I did tell him I'd be happy to beta test anything the employees got, but that won't happen. He explained how they farmed out many of the call centers as far as Oregon and basically told me that I already knew more than most of those front line CSR's anyway.

So, in the end it boils down to a wait for the updates situation.

I mentioned that I'm looking into Moxi or Tivo and he confirmed that it will bring it's own set of issues. Tuning adapters are not supplied or supported locally so when they fail (and he claims they fail quite often here) you are basically on your own. He said as far as he knows there are no plans to go all digital here anytime soon, so SDV will be in play for awhile.

He did give me one tidbit of info that may explain something. A known issue of the box changing recordings to an SD channel when the HD channel has the series set up. He said that Navigator will do this IF the box tries twice to acquire the SDV feed and fails it will revert to the SD channel so as not to miss the recording. I explained that it was doing this for multiples and actually changing over the whole series to SD which he seemed to think was another glitch.

I met to tell him that it would be nice if Time Warner just kept us informed, but as with many questions I asked he simply said "I agree, but it's above me" explaining he is more less a line tech and not a headend guy.

We then talked carriage disputes as a scroll came across the screen threatening to pull a channel. He doesn't think we will lose any channels, but I asked him if the guys at the headend could at least pipe in Fox HD from Utica for the Super Bowl if in fact WSYT pulls the HD feed. He didn't know too much about DMA restrictions, so he said he didn't know what they would do in that event.

Thanks for the report Ben. Yeh, I thought that it would play out this way too. Your report prompts a couple of comments:

This is the one really good thing about TW. First, they don't use many contractors and are able to maintain quality people in the field. They also try to keep the techs in one geographic area, so the tech knows the problems in the area and are more readily able to recognize problems.


hence "Crapigator"

They had a contractor come out and do my initial install for digital phone and I had to fix his work. I don't like contractors coming out. This tech has been great and straightforward with me. I appreciate his candor and that he isn't afraid to call it like it is. (one reason I won't name drop).

The end result of this situation is that I may basically be forced to either a different option (Moxi/Tivo) or change providers entirely. Without a reliable and functional DVR I basically wouldn't be watching anything. It's a simple matter of scheduling. As far as I'm concerned, if TWC could get a decent version of Navigator out there I'd have no reason to consider switching or using third party equipment. I'll likely stay on my original plan and push up on TWC once the new CableCard rules go into effect.

I don't know what your viewing habits are like but as Jack mentioned one solution is to dump one cable box and pick up a WMC, TiVo or Moxi just for OTA and Clear QAM.

Moxi works fine without CableCARD. Just plug in the coax and all the clear QAM come through with no hassle and no SDV issues. You just need to map the channel lineup to the guide manually.

Then you can keep the TWC box for anything on subscription tiers. At least then you are guaranteed that something will record when it should and will give you some storage and watching flexibility.

Does anyone know how I can check what firmware my Scientific Atlanta 8300 HDC is running? Thanks

mgd

Thanks for the Crapigator report Ben! Sounds like you got a great tech!!!! You should take him up on his job offer!!!! LOL!!! But than, TWC would probably submit you to a vow of silence on new features or updates!

It sounds like 4.0 had no business being rolled out to your division when it was! It clearly was not ready in your area! It would be good for the time being if you could go back to the 3.2 build.

Did the tech say anything about Keyword Search coming in a future update? Maybe this next build for ODN will take care of some of your issues? Even if you were to go with a new provider, the only way I think you can really go, is up from your Crapigator experience.

No issues with ODN 4.0.24 here in Wisconsin. That's just mind-boggling how the same software build can produce such different results from division to division? I wonder how many people are canceling in your division because of ODN 4.0.24's slowness? I mean, when 4.0.24 was tested in your node, did they not see the slowness, or just plain not give a crap?

Jack

PS. You should copy your experience with the tech to the Untangled blog, and say what part of New York you are in too when you do that! The more TWC knows, the better chance of problem resolution, eventually.

Ben,

I suuport Vision's suggestion! Good idea Vision!

Jack

Who to complain to is also a problem. I have mentioned to a couple TWC points of contact over the last couple years regarding need for Keyword Search and Manual Recording and how I used them and that they were in Passport and greatly missed with Navigator. Sad when my old VCR did better job recording something I know was going to be on 3 weeks from now. You wouldl think DVRs at least had what a VCR had. /Dan

If I cut the cord and go OTA, I'd likely do a cheap HTPC or probably a Tivo (Moxi doesn't support OTA) to keep things simple. I'd love an HTPC, but the rest of the family might have trouble with navigation and such. Pretty much everything with the exception of the ClearQAM and ESPN are SDV, so I'd have no real incentive to keep TWC at that point. I'd be giving up some channels that I actually enjoy though. Keep in mind that this isn't really a cost issue (I can afford it). It's more the fact that I'm giving TWC about $180 a month for this garbage. I really wish Moxi supported OTA. I like the back up option because it looks like retrans is going to hit us hard soon. I'm likely going to just "tolerate" it for a bit. That doesn't mean I won't be vocal and vent here (sorry if it's getting old).

3.2 was far more stable than 4.0 here. If fact, I was phyched for 4.0 because 3.2 went so smooth. The tech I had send they regularly send in "issue reports" and "feature requests", but he isn't privy to any forthcoming releases other than what they send out to employee boxes. It sounded as if he has an updated stack because he mentioned his 8640 having a 4th FFW speed which mine doesn't.

PS: I did write to the Untangled blog about my experience today. It also got me thinking of the cost. TWC offers "free" truck rolls, but we all know that cost is factored in each month. Take a moment and think of what it has to be costing TWC just in BS truck rolls for Navigator issues that have no fix other than a software update.