Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 500

Classic!!!! Love it JC! Hahahahahaha!!!

Jack

Man, 500 pages of Navigator info, frustration, workarounds, etc. And, sadly, not a ton of progress in many areas during the couple of years since I found this site after being blindsided by my friendly neighborhood TWC 'upgrade.' (What I wouldn't have given to have the option of keeping SARA.)

I saw a news headline this past week about TWC earnings or profits beating the estimates. I hope for the sake of the folks here that, somehow, things move from shareholder report-friendly 'advances' to real advances - in technology, user-friendliness, stability, reliability, and the like.

Sorry, I didn't realize there were other sequences to access diagnostics.

BUT, are these symptoms that my STB is broken??

I have ODN 4.0.2_4, but do NOT have "Watch in HD".

I also NEVER manually intervened after conflicts WHEN I had MDN. I always received the Press A to continue viewing verbiage, and when I did, could always go into the Scheduled list and see that it was in the process of moving things around (usually by showing multiple recordings of one of the episodes in question -- until it resolved everything).

This box never gives any indication it's moving the schedule around. I HAVE deliberately caused conflicts, just to see what it would do -- and after waiting 5 or 6 days, this box still does NOT pick up any alternate showings of the Series in question. Until your comment, I had just presumed this was an ODN thing.

So, is my STB broken?? I certainly CANNOT ask the "brain trust" at TWC!!!

If you can't access the diags, don't feel bad. I'm sure it's not a broken box. Some divisions have been known to hide the access features. If the box is working and you have a DVR that is scheduling, recording, and playing, you should be fine.

Jack

Most times it does not schedule the replacement showing for a bumped show until after the original is actually missed... it will show as a conflict until that time.

A composite of source information seems to indicate that TWC wants to move to a cloud-based GUI, but at the same time, has no plains to discontinue the current boxes. I asked some engineers and they think that the boxes will still be around for at least another 5-8 years.

Do you know how long it would take those poor clown programmers to develop a quality cloud based GUI in the first place? Jeez! They barely have Navigator up to par and that has been six years. I did find out that overwhelmingly people hate any kind of changes, it just confuses them. One thing is for certain. TWC cannot afford the Lincoln Nebraska debacle of six years ago when Navigator was so bad, there were calls to revoke the TWC franchise.

If TWC really wants a cloud based technology to work, they really need to license outside programmers to make it work. I can't see the "Gator Guys" being able to do that. Maybe for $10 more a month for those that wanted it, if they could get agreements with NetFlix. Apple i-Pad Stuff on the cloud based GUI fine. But someone else does the programing, if not, this is going to be more buggy crap! The sticking point is TWC does not want to pursue an agreement with Net Flix, because they fear it would take away their VOD subscribers.

There just does not seem to be a major interest in program guide features for most general population people. I have been told that ODN will still face an on-going development. The Interactive Polling might be the first of other elements for ODN. Another might be a Subscription Games Channel, which I think NYC Cablevision has had for several years.

I am more interested in the expected features in a guide that works well, rather than bells and whistles, which don't mean much to me.

Satch

in 8 years when people have smellyvision in 500000p and holographic tv's twc will still be handing out the 8300HDC an tell you its there top of the line model

In my division that would be the 8300HD.

Satch, I have no problem pulling up the diagnostics - although I don't find them all that useful...where, for instance, in ODN can I find signal strength?

Jcalabria: That's part of the problem. It DOESN'T show the bumped show as a conflict. I'm not talking about a Series recording being bumped by another Series with a higher priority -- but me actively scheduling a single show that generates an immediate conflict.

It acts more like my cancellation of a Series airing in favor of a single-show recording means I am expressing my disinterest in that episode, not just this particular airing of it. I had worked through MDN's idiosyncracies quite extensively, and knew to expect "Y" if I had done "X". ODN, at least on my STB, behaves entirely differently than MDN had. If it should behave in essentially an identical manner, then something's seriously wrong. Again, I also don't have the "Watch in HD" option that I apparently should.

Could it be my particular combination of box and software?? Does anyone else share this combination?

I am not exactly sure on the signal strength. I think it's a continuum of 0-+/-11, but don't quote me on that! What are the most important components in Diags for signal strength?

I just know when it's bad, checking the line and replacing the drop is often times better than replacing the box. A box swap won't mean crap if the drop line readings are bad.

Jack

I'm not sure if its 100% the same on an 8240/8300HDC, but on the 8640 you can get the QAM signal levels by pressing and holding [Power] until the power light flashes, then release [Power] and press it again. Once in the Host Diagnostics, use the [Page Up] button to get to page 7/37, "Host QAM Status". "Level" should be -8dBmV or higher (at -9dBmV it should turn yellow, indicating a signal level issue). "S/N" (Signal-to-Noise Ratio) should be 34dB or higher. Error counts should be 0, and likely will be if the above parameters are good.

Besides the QAM levels, there are also RF levels shown for the forward and return DAVIC modem data channels on page 3/37. Chances are that the FDC levels will be OK, but of particular interest, especially in an SDV environment, is the RDC. The concern with RDC levels is that it is not too high... which would indicate requests from the box to the headend may not be making it back to the headend. If the RDV level is consistently 48dBmV or higher (50 is maxed out), your box's requests for SDV allocations may not be getting back to the headend. Levels in the mid 40s and lower are OK.

Very Interesting...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post20794157

Thanks JC!

I think maybe Navigator 5.0 might have some merit after all! hahahaha! Sometimes I will watch an SD channel if the HD source channel is not showing HD content. And I could also see SDV issues where sometimes the HD channel may not come in, confusing my Mother if that happened and this setting was always set to "on." Thankfully though she knows that anything below 1000 in the channel numbers is not HD. I wonder if Ben got it on his box?!

This is great for Ben to have that Auto HD option always on, because he has no logical organization for his HD channels in his Rome/Syracuse area. Therefore, by having that feature "always on" his wife and kids won't record SD content anymore, so that cool for him!

Or wait! NYC doesn't have Gator 5.0 yet does it? So maybe they are slipstreaming this into a 4.xx release! Maybe like Guide Transparency, it has to be turned on at the head-end. This sounds good!

Jack

Ben contacted me last night,

Apparently he has not yet gotten the Auto HD option in Rome/Syracuse areas. New York City is rolling it out, and I would assume they are on ODN 5.0, or a slipstream update to 4.1? Trying to find out if ODN 4.1 is a prerequisite update for 5.0.

Jack

how would you know if TWC Navigator broke the cable box or just damaged it a little ?

Daye,

How ya doing? Can you be a little more specific about the above question? Do you mean when the box does not work after a software update? Or may work differently following a software update? In that case, there are many, many different variables involved in that as new features are added, and software bugs are hopefully killed and so forth.

Unfortunately, if the box fails to work following a software update, all the customer can do is reboot. He/she always has the option to wait several hours to a day to see if the problem fixes itself on its own. In fact, it may not be an issue with the box, it may be an issue with the head-end, or cable line drop.

Because TWC does not support third-party equipment, such as expander drives that are purchased by the customer "as is," they may not work with the boxes. If your box is the new Samsung series or a C-Model SA or Cisco, it runs the latest version of the Navigator software called ODN) But it may not work with the drive expander that you choose to connect. Disconnecting the drive expander may make the box work again. However, if you have the newer boxes described above, you are not likely to need a drive expander, because the units general come with 320GB's of storage.

The older boxes that are NOT Samsungs and do not have a C in the model number, run a version of the Navigator Software called MDN. The boxes are faster, despite being older, they don't have the added drainage of JAVA slowing down the hardware. The MDN software boxes all have 160GB of storage, so if you do a lot of recording, you are either going to need the more modern ODN box with a bigger hard drive, OR keep your older MDN box, and get a Drive Expander. Western Digital has a very good reputation.

However, some divisions just got an update to MDN boxes (3.0) that broke expander drive support, so I am trying to research what that's about.

What box do you have, and how is it working for you?

Jack

im disapointed in twc and there cable boxes but ok now heres some symptoms the box has

explorer 8240HDC
1.takes it several minutes for pic to come on after turning it on when it does come one you hve to change channels or wait more minutes for the image to come on

2. change the channel you get a black screen on some channels

3.audio cuts out on hd channels

we already tried other HDMI cables same thing happens is it broke ?

I've had 3.0.15 since the start of April and haven't had any issues with my external drive.

Try a hard reboot. Unplug the box for 30 seconds and then plug it back in. After my Sig Home install, I had to reboot the boxes to bring back the banner during remote playback (after a PSA told me remote content didn't have a banner *sigh* ). If that doesn't work, it does sound like a signal issue and a tech would have to come out and test the lines.

Dave, ODN has been stable right along with eSATA drives. I think Satch may be referring to ODN which has been known to disable eSATA that was previously working. This doesn't appear to be Daye's issue.

Ben, I trust that is a typo on your part - ODN has not been stable right along with eSATA. MDN has. While Satch was responding to a poster with ODN, he went on to talk about MDN boxes and added the note that he had heard some info about recent problems with MDN and external drives. I responded to give him a data point.

Correct. Damn iPhone. I posted that reply from it and didn't catch it - thanks. I was just adding that for info to the person having issues. I wanted them to understand that there were people who had their external drives bricked (as in loss of all data -recorded shows) after some ODN updates where the prior version was working with it. As stated, this doesn't appear to be the issue.

Box Suggestions:

Yea, Ben's got a little typo there. The MDN version of Navigator is the one that works with E-Sata drives. MDN=(No C Model on the box and not a Samsung.) You have ODN, which is newer, but often slower. I might recommend the following steps in 1-4 before a box swap or a service call:

1.) Do a cold reboot of the box. (Turn off box, unplug for 30 secs. Plug back in and reboot.)

2.) If that does not work, go under Settings and assuming you have all of the settings enabled, that might be causing your black screen issues. Some critics do not like to output to a single resolution, but I find that this speeds things up quite a bit in channel changing. Output to the maximum HD Resolution that your TV supports by putting a dot next to either the 720p or 1080i setting, which you will find under Settings, and either "Display" or "High Definition" depending on your build. Outputting to one resolution will stop the flickering. (DESELECT the dots next to the other resolution settings.)

3.) Try getting some FRESH, TOTALLY NEW, batteries for the remote. Install them, it can make a world off difference in channel speed and scrolling.

4.) Try Component Cables, it can be a PITA having multiple cables coming from your TV, but Component Cables have been known to resolve speed issues. Make sure you check your Display and HD settings to change and match your boxes video and output settings if you switch to component cables.

If Steps 1-4 do not Resolve Your Issues, do Step 5.

5.) Go to your nearest TWC service center if steps 1-4 don't do anything and swap out your box for a different model, either the Cisco 8640 or a Samsung 3090 (The best Samsung, but rare to find) or a 3270, (second best, and lacks PIP function.) Note that the Samsungs can be a little funky with HDMI cable. Yet people have good results with the Samsungs when they use Component Cables. The Cisco 8640 or higher is faster than the SA/Cisco 8240 to 8300 and works better with HDMI than the Samsungs.

6.) The fastest models are still the SA-8240 to SA-8300 (no C) boxes, but they aren't being made anymore. You can't get the model box you want in a truck roll situation, and if you get a truck roll, they will probably just bring another SA 8240HDC or SA-8300HDC, which I don't think is going to solve your problem.

Tip: Before you do step 5, make sure you write down your box settings and shows/series you have scheduled. (Favorite Channels, audio/video settings.) Always keep that paper with your cable stuff. Than, if you have to do a box swap, you have the information on hand to transfer settings to the new box.

Jack

Last post from me in following URL shows a recommendation above from a Charlotte NC MDN Navigator user, who's recent update, (assume 3.0) broke his E-Sata Drive. He is having HDMI issues. I suggested a cold boot of box and to post here if he still has problems. He does not want an ODN box:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...28876&page=236

Jack

Hi, Jack. Slight clarification... You are correct that the 32xx series Samsungs can be finicky about HDMI handshaking (in my experience they are OK as long as the box is turned on last), but the 3090 never suffered from the same HDMI issues. The two 3090s that I have had were very robust in that regard. Unfortunately, only a few divisions ever had them at all - even in those systems, they were superseded by the 3270 rather quickly.

Joe

Thanks JC!

Jack

Thanks! The [Power] sequence worked; levels and S/N look to be within specs. My box, BTW, has 21 pages of Host Diagnostics (under MDN: signal strength, etc were contained in the regular diagnostics).

The STB also just downloaded 4.1.0_6 here in Dayton. It still blacks out on certain recording overlaps (a recoverable condition it exhibited before), but I haven't played with it enough yet to see if other problems still exist.

Glad to have 4x, and Start Over/Enhanced back on the banner; IPG navigation is also noticeably less laggy. Never had much luck with DVR compensation: I would prefer it be adjustable on FF, with NO jump-forward after Rewind -- who were these "genius" programmers, analysts and/or managers again??

Still don't have "Watch in HD".

I've also added a test-only Series and deliberately overlapped its first airing with two other one-time recordings to force a conflict. So far, it hasn't scheduled any future airings of the new episode, and I won't commit to holding my breath over it...

Yup,

ODN 4.1 fixes TONS of bugs. I don't know if we will ever hit MDN's lightning speed on the non-C SA-8240 and SA-8300 DVR's. Those older boxes just few for scrolling!

I liked DVR Compensation better in MDN than ODN. On MDN, I could put mine to "Less" and have it stop within maybe 2-3 seconds of where I wanted it. 'Normal" backed up too much for me.

On ODN, DVR Compensation, when set to "Less", it seems to not back up far enough and I could not get the timing down. So I put my setting back to the default of Normal, and have been practicing with that.

What I am going to say is still going to vary for different people based on their reaction time, but assume you have ODN Navigator DVR Compensation. (A C-box or a Samsung.) What seems to work for me for Normal DVR Compensation (which is the default) is to fast-forward along when you see the show come back for about 2 additional seconds. (Note that I am using the 4x FF function in this example.) Now, keep fast-forwarding for two seconds AFTER you see the show come back on the screen. When you hit play, the back compensation should put you pretty close to just between the last commercial break and the return to the show.

Has that been the experience for other ODN 4.1+ users?

Jack

One of the most annoying foibles of 4.0 is that, when you get to the end of a show, you cannot rewind; you can only go to the beginning, delete, or save. Do you know if 4.1 fix this?

Hey Satch,
I've never had much of a problem with jump-back after FF, just with that gosh-awful ridiculous jump-FORWARD after Rewind. With MDN, you could hack/defeat that nonsense by hitting PAUSE after Rew, then Play. But ODN is "too smart" for that.

Margoba, I haven't found the ability to rewind after hitting end of program in 4.1; again, MDN handled this correctly.

Still experimenting with user-created Conflicts. It appears now that the box WILL pick up later airings of a Series episode, but ONLY AFTER Guide data is appended/updated/refreshed, which in my case seems to be sometime around 7-9 am. It missed a 1 am airing of my test Series, didn't show today's 9 am airing in the schedule around 7:15 am, but when I came back into the room just after 9 am, it was recording...

Here is something I've never seen addressed in this forum. I especially run into this since I'm always setting 2 minute padding on either side of a recording: Don't ALL other cable/satellite DVRs understand that overlapping programs on the same channel should only tie up a SINGLE tuner? I can't say how many times I've had to kludge start/end times by a few minutes, up to 2 hours -- and even that doesn't always handle it. Ugh. I'm SICK of it!!

I, too, hate jump-forward after rewind. One way out of it with ODN is to hit PAUSE after rewinding, and then move forward or backward a frame or two. Then it starts playing from that spot. It's pretty kludgy, but it does work (at least on my Samsung whole house box).

-barry