Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 543

Really? You just proved my point that the software devs were in over their head and couldn't code properly for the hardware. You choose to blame the hardware while ignoring the fact that SARA and Passport both ran better on said older hardware even with more functionality. The newer hardware is more than capable of running inefficient software. It just speaks to bad design and programming. I even concede the hardware is likely difficult to program for seeing as how Tivo could make it's software run properly on Comcast set tops, but that's why TWC should have contracted out to Aptiv which is known for solid, reliable set top software.

I'd say it's a culmination of what the three of us are saying. Poor management and poor design within the hardware they are working with. The newer Arris (Moxi) Gateway devices are really where the industry is heading anyway. A central server with clients.

My goal is to provide contructive feedback and commentary in order to better the current state of TWC's software which currently is it's Achille's Heel. If I can provide direct feedback to them and there is a team in place that can handle the task, then maybe we will end up with a re-birth that actually functions as a 2012 GUI should. I'm just glad TWC Management finally saw the writing on the wall and is doing something about the situation.

I have HDMI going from the 8640HDC to a Panasonic TC-L37E5 TV. Audio out on the Explorer is set to Dolby Digital.

For typical viewing, I turn off the TV speakers, don't connect an audio out of the TV, and run an optical connection from the Explorer to my receiver, which produces 5.1 audio.

The Panny has Netflix and Amazon apps built in, and I want to take advantage of the 5.1 sound in those streams. But if I run an optical cable from the TV to the receiver, and not from the Explorer to the receiver, I only get 2-channel sound, whether I'm streaming something or watching regular TV.

Is it likely the Explorer isn't sending 5.1 audio to the TV via HDMI? If so, is there a fix or adjustment that can be made?

Just a minute here: The 8300HD (no C) still runs pretty well with MDN. The problem with stuffing 10 lbs of s**t into a 2 lb box is with ODN. The decision to stuff ODN into the 8300HDC is with TW Management. Good software development MANAGEMENT would have made TW upper management aware of this. (So the question is: Was SW Development Management deficient or did TW management just not listen? )

This could be an issue with the source settings on your AVR. Keep in mind that I have a Roku and very little content is actually 5.1 on Netflix that I notice. Most of the time my AVR handles it as PLII Movie. You likely need to set each input up as it's own.

I gather that your only issue is that you can't get 5.1 from the Explorer via HDMI/TV/Optical and that you DO get 5.1 from the TV and from the Netflix/Amazon apps. Right?

If so, I suspect that your problem is due to the TV telling the Explorer (via HDMI) that it wants to be fed 2.0. This is a very typical problem. Your best approach is to feed the Explorer's digital audio out directly to the receiver so you use one input on the receiver for the Explorer and another for the TV digital audio out. Don't forget to change the Explorer audio coding from HDMI to Dolby Digital.

+1. Very pleased that TWC is now working to solve Navigator's shortcomings.

Jack

Thanks, I thought that could be the case.

Question: Will I have to use two different audio connections -- one from the Explorer to the AVR, another from the TV to the AVR, each to a different input -- or should I be able to run HDMI to the TV with only one optical from the TV to the AVR (using only one input) and just switch between source setups on the AVR?

Thanks. I'll try that, and play around with AVR setups, too.

So far, the Whole Home DVR setup with TWC as actually been pretty good. Good enough that I am considering returning my Tivos. I had questions about how multiple DVRs work in the whole home setup.

1.When I bring up the list, do I see all recordings on both DVRs in the same list?
2.Is there any easy way to tell if a recording is on one DVR or another?
3.Are there any plans to implement folder-like functionality?

Thanks,
Ted

There must have been an upgrade that I didn't notice. Suddenly, the pause button works while caller ID information is being displayed. Hurray!

-barry

File this under annoying: every now and then (maybe once a month) my Samsung Whole House DVR seems to randomly record a show that I didn't ask for. Tonight it recorded CSI: Miami which I've never recorded (or watched).

-barry

I was looking for something on the BBC America site when I ran across a set of quotes from Douglas Adams. It will come as no surprise to anyone in this thread that one caused me immediately to think of TWC and Navigator = "We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that works."

And, one of his more famous quotes, might be relevant as well - "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."

Quotes here

The answer varies depending upon your AVR and how your TV outputs passthrough audio from the HDMI to the Optical (TOSLINK) Out. That said, it should work one of two ways:

Scenario 1: Your AVR does NOT have HDMI switching. How I handle a situation like this is to run two separate audio cables with each to it's own input. The reason is that some (most) TV's will only output PCM two channel audio from the TOSLINK connector even though the HDMI is sending 5.1 from the set top box to the TV. The TV doesn't process it and pass it along as 5.1. It may only output 5.1 from the tuner (IE: OTA broadcasts). I had this issue with a brand new Sharp 70" on a recent install. The customer using the Netflix built into the TV with HDMI from the set top box. I ran a separate TOSLINK cable from the set top to the AVR and a separate one from the Optical out to it's own input on the AVR. This way the AVR sees the 5.1 DD signal from the set top (ensure you have Dolby Digital as the output in the set top settings) and whatever audio the Netflix app sends as native.

Scenario 2: Now if you have an AVR with HDMI switching, you can skip the TOSLINK cable from the set top as the AVR should pick it up via the HDMI cable. You would have HDMI from the set top to the AVR, HDMI from the AVR to the TV with the AVR using HDMI as the audio source. Then you would still have a TOSLINK cable from the TV back to the AVR for Audio from the Netflix App.

The key is to make sure your AVR is configured properly and that it's looking at the right sources. Feel free to PM me if you need any help.


Answers:

1) Yes
2) No, not without starting it. If you start a recording and it just plays then it resides on that unit. If you start a recording and it says "Accessing... Your program will begin shortly..." (like a VOD screen) then it resides on a remote DVR.
3) Unknown at this time. I have passed along the issue of not having Series Recordings show up on all DVR's as well. No units ever know what is scheduled, so if someone schedules the same show/series on two units you end up with a duplicate. This can be helped by using the Smartphone app which does show you scheduled recordings across all set tops.

Right now the DVR sub menu needs ALOT of work for functionality. It doesn't show the whole program name, doesn't monitor across units, has no way to default the list (IE: by Title or Date), it's always Date. and always kicks out to Live at the end of a recording instead of back to the List.

Did you check that it was really CSI:Miami? I have occasionally had a recording show up with the wrong title. It was actually a recording I wanted, just with the wrong title and description.

Thanks for the answers. I am unaware of a whole home solution where one DVR unit knows what is scheduled on another unit. DirecTV and Tivo do not work that way. With DirecTV, there is not even a way to do that via an app unless you have the DVRs connected to your home network along with an smartphone/tablet. No idea whether the Dish Hopper offers this. It is a nice idea though. They could treat the DVRs as a High Availability cluster, where one manages the queue for all tuners in the system. If one goes down, then the other takes over. Ah well, probably too much to ask.

-Ted

Next question. My Samsung playback STB routinely displays ECUT about once a day. As soon as I power it on, the display goes away. Any idea what that code means?

Thanks,
Ted

Actually the newer Arris Gateway with six tuners works that way. It is a central DVR Gateway with clients that schedule via it. Pace is also releasing a six tuner Gateway, but I have no word on functionality yet.

Similar saying: the only thing worse than a fool is an educated fool

Time Warner is working on a 6 tuner gateway with Motorola and Cisco has one as well.

Seems to me having 6 tuners in one box just means you lose more recordings when the box fails.

I don't see it that way. I still record the same shows, but six tuners insures virtually no conflicts so I have to babysit the DVR less.

Failure rate on the new boxes is less than .2%, you could not do better with a new 30K Plus car. I also prefer to have a six tuner set-top just to avoid the conflict also...hopefully soon..

I think people are looking at failure rates as the frequency which TWC does box swaps. Most times, they are doing box swaps for Navigator related issues or signal issues and NOT an actual box failure, so because of that people associate the sheer volume of box swaps as failures of the device. I had an old 8300HD for 5 years that performed flawlessly (pre-Navigator).

I STILL have a 8300HD (probably had it for 8+ years) that (short of Crapigator bugs) performs flawlessly!

That's a new one for me, will check with someone on Wednesday.

Right Ben,

Great point! A lot of people who don't know Navigator like we do are swapping boxes to fix "bugs." But the bugs in question often aren't from bad boxes, they are a result of Navigator's poor design, coding, testing, and execution. With the new developments for Navigator, these issues are being corrected as we speak as a part of the new Guide coming soon.

Jack

Though this overhaul should have been done 4-5 years ago, when TWC is replacing Passport with Navigator.

True, and I probably would have kept mine if it could handle the WH DVR.

+1!

The problem was that the in-house development team did not know how to write and test code for the boxes, so they could not fix something that the older design team did not have the skills or knowledge to fix. The original concept behind Navigator was to do the following:

1.) Design in house to save money so TWC would not have to pay outside vendors for updates. (The worst business practice they have ever done!)

2.) Establish a footprint across states and divisions to have "better control over functions and features." (This plan has been blowing up in TWC's own and customers faces for six years.)

3.) To develop Navigator as a spring board mechanism NOT to be a great guide (a huge mistake) but to use it to implement applets that TWC could call their own- Start Over, Look Back, Caller ID on TV, SDV launch. My belief is that the original Navigator developers used these applets as excuses to sweep Navigator's piss-poor development, programing code, and testing under the rug hoping that general population customers would not know how bad Navigator was, by saying things like "TWC has (Caller ID on TV, Start Over, Look Back) AT&T U-Verse and Dish don't."

4.) The original design team did not see Navigator as a money-making incentive to improve it, or evidence that doing so would increase their video services subscription base. There was so much money and success, with customer satisfaction from Road-Runner Internet, Digital Phone, and the Mobile Technologies that in the influx of all of this. the importance of the STB software being reliable and establishing quality feature sets that resemble 2012 and beyond, and not 2002 and before was ignored.

My view is that the power of the Internet and customer complaints about Navigator through the Internet and word of mouth finally reached management's ears who believed that they had to improve the STB product, so that the Navigator software would be reasonably in-line with competition feature sets, instead of laughed at by the competition and despised by customers. Making Navigator more reliable and modern should have been done AFTER the first year of the Navigator debacle with the Lincoln Nebraska roll-out disaster. TWC waited much too long (six years!) to make Navigator more reliable!

The new strategy by making Navigator important and reliable with modern feature sets, should make TWC better valued by general populations and experts alike. Quality and reliable ways to find information whether it is on an i-Pad, Android, X-Box, DVR Manager, or Set Top Box is the focus of TWC's TV Everywhere" campaign. Getting the bugs out of Navigator, and making it work reliably, will hopefully bring the STB technology in-line with modern trends. From what I hear, things are going very well.

Jack

Good idea, but I didn't check it, and I deleted it as well. Rats!