Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 584

What does the release of ODN 6 mean (if anything) for MDN users? Any new version on the horizon?

Off-Topic:
Looks like the fall update might fix your problem.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9355329#post9355329

I heard about the update but I was under the impression it was surface related stuff they were updating (HD Screens and what not). I'll contact Tivo to get the scoop. Thanks for the info though.

Don't know, but just got off the phone with a customer who has had it. His DVR shows 70% full with only 7 recordings. He's rebooted and swapped boxes to no avail. His DVR is erasing recordings. He goes to bed with a show recording (flagged DO NOT DELETE) then goes o watch it in the morning and it's gone. I've done everything to appease this customer and I think he finally understands all his problems are Time Warner related. I have advised him to switch providers. I am now actively advising my customers to look elsewhere as I don't see any or enough significant improvement coming with Time Warner. I think they have given up on their core product of video service. There are good solutions out there that they refuse to allow.
Edited by BenJF3 - 10/31/12 at 3:10pm

I agree Ben,

If you are in a POS TWC division for service and nothing has been done to correct the problem. Can them like a tuna. Way too much inconsistency from division to division. For problematic divisions where customers have tried everything else, all the way up to supervisor level and beyond, with the DVR still being a POS, I would say to those division, drop the portions of TWC services that don't work right if you have had non-stop problems for the last year or more. Maybe if enough people do that, TWC will get the message that the TWC Navigator Guide is a POS.

Jack

That should read 7 recordings (I corrected the original post). I agree Jack and I am just watching and waiting for the best offer (for me) to ditch them. They are by default going to lose my phone account too because once the bundle comes apart the phone more than doubles and it is no longer worth it. I will probably downgrade my Wideband too. Maybe drop one tier although I would miss the upload speed. I can no longer have my customers calling/blaming me and my work on Time Warner's issues.

The latest version of MDN is still 3.5. ODN is a different operating system. However, when releases come out, the code is written as needed for each of the boxes. I think an area where satellite has an edge over cable, is the dish people don't have to code for so many boxes. And the competition is more proficient at writing and testing code.

TWC sees the STB as a matured technology. They don't see money making opportunities by improving Navigator, because the overwhelming customer base, probably about 80% or higher don't know any better or don't care. They have their Internet, Phone, and Mobile Services, which are thriving. Even before Navigator came out six years ago, TWC has been seemingly moving away from caring about cable TV equipment. However, they DO CARE about a wide HD channel selection, and things like Start-Over, Look-Back, and Caller ID on TV, as well as VOD.,TWC knows if they can dangle those eye-candy things in front of customers, that is somehow supposed to compensate for the Navigator Guide's shortcomings. And TWC still offers the best retention deals. If they cared about Navigator like they cared about their other services, they would be a decent company. The worst levels of the company are the Navigator Guide for many markets, and incompetent scripted customer service phone and chat support.

Jack

Ben,

So are your clients going to be dropping just TWC video services or all of TWC? What alternatives are you recommending to them for services?

Jack

Tivo always includes unspecified "Stability and performance improvements"

Cisco boxes in San Diego also got a new IMG file. Latest version is now at OHT2.0.0.2001

This is fine if they want to offer subs their Navigator laden box. However, offer your premium subs something more or make the Moxi Gateway available to subs who desire such a system (even at a fee). If they offfered me or there was a third party alternative that offered VOD thenI'd have an option and likely try it. I have no beef with TWC's HD line up. In fact, it's among the best. The phone service has been great as part of my bundle. The Internet still has DNS issues, but some of that could be related to my equipment. Although, prior to Wideband I never had any issue with holding a connection. I can live with an occasional reboot or glitch. This daily headache has become too much.


Many of them are stuck (like me) with Time Warner for anything above Standard 15Mbps service so they'll have to keep Internet. However, I'm advising them to compare providers to ensure they get what channels they want. I'm not promoting any provider, merely pointing out strenghts and weaknesses. Many times, my customers will give me a list of faves and I'll do the legwork to get them hooked up with whatever provider suits them best. I can not endorse or recommend TWC based on my use of it and the constant stream of consumer issues. I do advise them that once they unbundle, they can likely find much cheaper phone alternatives as well. As said, by virtue of Navigator being so bad they stand to lose the cable and phone portion of my subscription. I'm sure they don't care. After all, they lost 600,000 video subs last quarter and still made huge profit.

Right now Dish would have the edge for me personally with Channel line up and DVR except they need to make the Hoppers "talk" to each other as one and need an OTA module for them. DirecTV wins on DVR with number of tuners and OTA streaming, but lacks many, many HD channels we watch regularly. Thing is, DirecTV will have these in HD and has a 2016 guideline for going ALL HD.


EDIT - BREAKING NEWS - Time Warner to increase set top rental fee to $10!!!

http://stopthecap.com/2012/10/31/time-warner-cable-raising-prices-for-set-top-boxes-to-10month-in-wisconsin/

This will drive even MORE people away. They already know they are getting hosed with this garbage and now you are going to charge them MORE!!! Navigator isn't worth a free set top rental and $8.95 was too high to begin with when satcos are only charging $5.99 for a far superior device. I'll echo my above comments and say, I really think TWC is purposely trying to drive subs away. Maybe lower video sub numbers will help them when they negotiate new carriage agreements.
Edited by BenJF3 - 11/1/12 at 4:54am

Don't DirecTV DVRs need OTA add-ons as well? How is the Genie different form the Hopper in the need for all the boxes to talk to one another?

I don't want to derail the thread as I've taken most of the Sat stuff to DBSTalk.com - That said, The HR-34 (Genie) has the AM-21N that you can add on if you need OTA. Many won't, but I do because satcos don't carry dual markets so my true locals won't come to me, plus I want them all in HD anyway. The AM-21N will stream OTA to other C-31's which are little clients set tops (like the Moxi players). The Hopper has an OTA USB module in the works, but it's been vaporware thus far and no word on how it will function with streaming. Both will add OTA's to the Guide. The Hopper has less tuners than the Genie as it uses a transponder to record Prime Time Anytime to use the AutoHop. Either option is very similar to the Arris Whole Home Gateway and any other those is light years ahead of Navigator.

Exactly!

TWC also does not realize the money lost do to Navigator's problems. The guide was supposed to be designed in house to "save money." However, it has cost TWC loss of subscribers where they have to raise rates on box rentals to try to compensate for the mediocre standards concerning the Navigator Guide.

Getting professional program guide developers to create a quality IPG means better performance from the guide, fewer calls and box swaps, which leads to greater employee and customer satisfaction.

I would like to examine the statistics of TWC Navigator problems concerning calls for a period of one year concerning cable TV problems because of the Navigator Guide. Now, compare those numbers to Moxi's DVR service calls, or Direct TV with a Tivo, over the same period of time. I would suspect that for every one service call to Tivo about a Program Guide issue, there are five to ten calls to TWC about Navigator problems. This is the result when you think cheap and hire independent contractors in a cost-cutting measure, rather than competent program developers who can do a great guide. TWC Navigator remains the biggest catastrophic mistake this company has ever produced.

The quality of TWC is outstanding in other places such as Phone, Internet, and Mobile Technologies. With the proper people working on the Navigator Guide, that software could be just as good as Tivo or Direct-TV, or even Moi, (If TWC would accept the Arris/Moxi DVR as a solution.) Let the professionals who know program guides come in and do an IPG that reflects modern technology and high standards of performance and reliability. The Navigator programers I am sure are nice people and all that. But I think they only have limited knowledge and experience with program guide development.

The TWC Managers think metaphorically that TWC is the advanced calculus of program guides. However, I think the people who are doing the coding and testing are C+ Algebra students. The Navigator programers might WANT to do better. But I think corporate is saying, "Just do your best. 90% of the customers don't know the difference anyway." Maybe so, But shouldn't us subscribers who have been with TWC for 15-25 years deserve the kind of modern and reliable guide that shows our patronage to the company? If TWC is serious about making Navigator work well and be modern, they have to bring in specialized program guide people who can make it happen. Can these C+ Algebra programers, and bring in the "A" grade Calculus Tivo, Arris, or even Passport pros, who can make the Navigator the kind of reliable and modern software that customers should expect from a company that provides among the best phone and Internet service anywhere!

Jack

Isn't that a contradiction??
Since they want to encrypt and put just about everything on SDV, how the hell is anyone suppose to watch TV w/o their equipment?
What, watch it live with 20 minutes of commercials every hour? What does Mobile Technologies have to do with cable TV?? Watching TV on your idiot phone is not "cable TV". As far as Internet, their standard 10MBs, overall is not much faster than DSL due to their constant "throttling" back of bandwidth. And I don't mean during the evening either.

The only thing they are "outstanding" in is VoIP. Coming from years of Sunrocket, then Broadvoice, I will say without reservation their VoIP is a huge improvement. Still not POTS, but close.

.
Edited by videobruce - 11/1/12 at 10:37pm

As usual, more misinformation;

Actually, I had awful DSL and have always had excellent TWC service concerning their Internet reliability and good speed. Our family loves Digital Phone and Caller ID. I agree that mobile technology is not cable TV, but TWC wants to try to integrate cable TV, phone, Internet, and mobile devices as interconnecting units. Over time, the gap between the differences of these devices will decrease, Navigator remains the biggest thorn in TWC's size. Here in Wisconsin, I haven't had the throttling issues with our Internet. Does your connection hold well? Mine used to sometimes go out with a three year old modem that we had. But I returned that to TWC and got my own modem, and I have had maybe one connection issue in the last three years!

The shame and disgrace of the Navigator Guide is what's bringing TWC down as a company.

Jack

Just the opposite. very little trouble with Verizon's DSL (i am just over one mile from their CO) in the 9 or so years I had it. It was 3Mb/s, but it was a consistent 3 Mb/s, not varying like TWC's overloaded pipeline to the outside world is. I would say I average the same overall speed as DSL with occasional spurts up to the 10 Mb/s the service is set to. And I'm not talking between 6 and 9pm either. Get the basics fixed first, then explore other options. a CATV DVR is basic AFAIC, all that other crap is extra.
Edited by videobruce - 11/2/12 at 9:56am

Don't forget stupidly.

Speaking of which it is Mb/s.

It was high speed DSL.
I thought about that after the post.

Wasn't planning on switching this soon but my Wife and I were ambushed at Sam's Club today by Directv Guys running a promotion on their new "Genie" HD-DVR (5 tuners and 1 TB hard drive). No more bitching about TW for me. I am going to keep their internet/phone though.

Awesome Justin!!!!

Let us know how Direct TV works out for you! Now you see TWC, the above is an example of a MODERN DVR with a MODERN GUIDE! Not that POS Navigator that you keep pom-poming and think a color change and a half-assed guide filter represents 2012 and above technology.

Jack

San Diego is already charging $10/month for STB's. 

anyone else gotten the notice that they're now going to charge a 'lease' fee for the modems?
ostensibly so that now when we have problems with them or they are out of date we can just swap them in for new ones (things we could already do before this 'new' 5 dollar charge)

While I haven't personally seen it here in the Raleigh NC area a co-worker said she got the notice so either I haven't gotten mine yet or the wife threw it away.

It doesn't matter to me though, I'm giving U-Verse a try and my install is this coming Thursday morning. While my phone, internet, and cable TV have been pretty much solid I'm tired of dealing with the set top boxes and their problems and limitations. I'll save maybe $30 / month for 24 months (before the modem fee and yearly January price increases) and pick up Showtime. I'm not doing it to save money or get Showtime though, I could call TWC and negotiate both I'm sure - it's the STB and Navigator.

While composing this the phone rang twice - no caller ID on TV. Usually fixed by a 10 minute reboot or going into Settings and turning caller ID off and then back on. I've not seen this problem mentioned previously.

Speaking of things not mentioned previously - why does it take so many "clicks" to get something accomplished in Navigator? Want to check your call log? Press Settings, Down Arrow, Down Arrow, Select, Down Arrow, Select. They actually added a couple of steps there by putting Setup first in the list. How often do you need to go into Setup? There's another example with recording a program from search that makes you press Down Arrow 4 times I think to get back to the list when it's what you probably want to do next if you're looking to record multiple episodes of a program.

I can see where TWC is putting some effort into Navigator but I doubt they'll ever get it working well with the current hardware, and I'm not waiting any longer.

Actually there is more, with DirecTV at least. While with Time Warner you mainly have newer SA, Cisco and Samsung boxes running ODN Navigator along with Motorola boxes that are in a MOCA setup and older SA boxes with MDN. With DirecTV there are currently 8 different hardware manufactures of their receivers and DVRs.

You would never know it, since an HR24 DVR manufactured Samsung looks identical to an HR24 manufactured by Pace. The not so new HR34 dubbed ‘Genie’ recently by the DirecTV Marketing Dept is currently only manufactured by Pace. The standard HD DVR, the HR24, is manufactured by Thompson (RCA), Samsung, Humax and Pace. Philips, LG, NEC and HNS also manufacture or have manufactured DirecTV receivers ever since DirecTV went to their own branded boxes in 2005. All of the newer boxes are DirecTV branded and feature very similar firmware. While a final release of firmware may work fine on an HR24 from Pace and one from Samsung, that is not the case if you participate in the Cutting Edge beta program. Some beta firmware will not work the same model box, but from different manufactures. And some people report mixed results when it comes to beta, release candidate and national releases of firmware between different manufactures.

Aside from the original crop of DirecTiVos and S2 DTiVos, in the old days, all those companies I listed above in addition to Sony and possibly another company or two that I don’t remember all manufactured DirecTV receivers under their own names, they all looked different physically, the all had different features, all ran completely different firmware. In 2005 they started to unify their product lines, but since DirecTV doesn’t have a manufacturing arm ever since they split from Hughes Electronics, they still need third party companies to manufacture the hardware.

Dish Network, I'm not sure about. As I said many time I forget that company even exists most of the time. Echostar, their former parent company, now split off from them, used to manufacture all of their hardware. They did at one point have branding agreements in place with JVC, Philips and RCA, but I’m not sure who actually made those receivers. I can’t say for 100% certainty, but these days I believe all Dish hardware is handled by Echostar or Echostar Technologies Corporation or whatever they call themselves these days.

I'm gaining my freedom from TWC next year when I move across the border to South Carolina. I think I'll have a cable company called "Comporium" for broadband internet, but am thinking of going back to satelite TV via DirecTV. Is there a particular model of DVR running a particular firmware that I should ask for? I do like the idea of a 1 terabyte drive. That's about what I've got now with my 8300HD w/expansion drive so I'm used to recording everything I might possibly want to watch and then doing triage later. And 5 tuners is awesome.

DirecTV pretty much has 3 HD DVRs. The HR24, which is a two tuner HD DVR with a 500GB hard drive, the HR34 which is a 5 tuner HD DVR with a 1TB hard drive and the THR22 which is the new version of the DirecTiVo. That has a 500 GB drive and 2 tuners as well. The HR24 and HR34, along with all of the other DirecTV receivers and DVRs that use that numbering scheme all have very similar user interfaces. The THR22 runs the TiVo software. Personally, I cannot stand TiVo and I hate TiVo and it’s UI like there’s no tomorrow, so that wasn’t an option for me. Plus the DirecTV TiVo box does not support whole house DVR and it does not support 3D, those are two very important features to me

I had Directv for the last 2 years leading up to May of 2012. While much better than Navigator, their boxes are not bug free. Audio drops were the most annoying problem I had. A few times during each show, I would have to skip back to replay something I had missed due to audio being dropped. Also, the boxes could be sluggish at times. Conflict resolution was better than Navigator, but also not perfect. Dish and TiVo have the best conflict resolution in my experience. Very predictable. I will probably go with Dish next time due to line of sight issues for Directv at my house, but either one is miles better than TWC for hardware and software. TWC does have a very good HD lineup though, so there is some downside to switching if the satellite companies do not have channels you watch.