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post #17881 of 18536
I read the Time Warner Cable earnings transcript each quarter to see what new products or services are on the horizon and this quarter's call didn't disappoint.

TWC clearly understands that their video product is underperforming.

"Video stats were a disappointment. ...we still lost 129,000 residential video subs in the fourth quarter and that's just not acceptable. So we've got much more work to do."

So what are they going to do about it? Well, if I read the CEOs quotes correctly, they understand Navigator's shortcomings and are going to rollout a cloud based guide that requires specific hardware.

"Our customers will see a series of updates to our apps that will bring even more content and functionality to more devices. In addition, our cloud-based user interface running on IP set-top boxes and next-generation DVR's will deliver the biggest change to the video experience that our customers have experienced in a decade. These are scheduled for introduction in the second half of the year."

From the question and answer session.

John Hodulik - UBS: "Can we just get some more detail or could you elaborate on a couple of the initiatives you talked about first the rollout of the cloud-based IP guide and you talked about developing more video apps and extending those beyond the home. Can you give us a little bit more detail there and when we could see those?"

Robert D. Marcus - President and COO: "John, with respect to the cloud-based item, I guess the first thing that’s worth mentioning and we've mentioned it before is that we already have a cloud-based guide that's in front of a couple of hundred thousand customers in a couple of markets and we've had out there for a while and we've learned from it. The cloud-based guide I was referring to is what we call our hosted navigation product. It will be available back half of this year. It will work on our new IP set-top boxes. It will work on what is essentially a souped-up DVR. Some people have referred to it as a gateway device, which has a terabyte of storage, six tuners and has the ability to transcode video into IP. So, it can be consumed not only by the IP set-top boxes, but by other devices in the home. So, we're looking forward to that. I think the experience will be markedly better than the set-top box based guide experience. It will be easier navigation, more box are better search. All of the things that viewers have come to expect based on their interaction with video on the web. So, I think that's going to be a really exciting change."

John Hodulik - UBS: "First is that new guide and media guide going to be available in all your markets in the second half ?"

Glenn A. Britt - Chairman and CEO: "So, on the guide look, it will not – the guide will initially only function on these new pieces of hardware that I'm referring to. So, on one level, the proliferation of the guide will be dependent upon the rollout of the hardware. Whether or not it's available in every single market, I think it's still too early to say what the exact rollout schedule is. So, we'll give you more as the year progresses. "
post #17882 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by warren193 View Post

Haven't heard anyone else having a problem like this. I'll keep an eye out for it again and see if I can figure out a way to reliably recreate the problem. Don't know if that will happen before the box gets the new version of ODN, but I'll try to keep you all posted. In the meantime, I called TWC; at least they gave me a credit for the missed recordings.

Had the exact same occurrence a few months back with my 8742, but it hasn't reoccurred since. I make it a habit to reboot every 1-2 weeks now as a pre-emptive measure rather than waiting for things to go bad in bizarre ways.
post #17883 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfogarty5 View Post

I read the Time Warner Cable earnings transcript each quarter to see what new products or services are on the horizon and this quarter's call didn't disappoint.

TWC clearly understands that their video product is underperforming.

"Video stats were a disappointment. ...we still lost 129,000 residential video subs in the fourth quarter and that's just not acceptable. So we've got much more work to do."

So what are they going to do about it? Well, if I read the CEOs quotes correctly, they understand Navigator's shortcomings and are going to rollout a cloud based guide that requires specific hardware.

"Our customers will see a series of updates to our apps that will bring even more content and functionality to more devices. In addition, our cloud-based user interface running on IP set-top boxes and next-generation DVR's will deliver the biggest change to the video experience that our customers have experienced in a decade. These are scheduled for introduction in the second half of the year."

From the question and answer session.

John Hodulik - UBS: "Can we just get some more detail or could you elaborate on a couple of the initiatives you talked about first the rollout of the cloud-based IP guide and you talked about developing more video apps and extending those beyond the home. Can you give us a little bit more detail there and when we could see those?"

Robert D. Marcus - President and COO: "John, with respect to the cloud-based item, I guess the first thing that’s worth mentioning and we've mentioned it before is that we already have a cloud-based guide that's in front of a couple of hundred thousand customers in a couple of markets and we've had out there for a while and we've learned from it. The cloud-based guide I was referring to is what we call our hosted navigation product. It will be available back half of this year. It will work on our new IP set-top boxes. It will work on what is essentially a souped-up DVR. Some people have referred to it as a gateway device, which has a terabyte of storage, six tuners and has the ability to transcode video into IP. So, it can be consumed not only by the IP set-top boxes, but by other devices in the home. So, we're looking forward to that. I think the experience will be markedly better than the set-top box based guide experience. It will be easier navigation, more box are better search. All of the things that viewers have come to expect based on their interaction with video on the web. So, I think that's going to be a really exciting change."

John Hodulik - UBS: "First is that new guide and media guide going to be available in all your markets in the second half ?"

Glenn A. Britt - Chairman and CEO: "So, on the guide look, it will not – the guide will initially only function on these new pieces of hardware that I'm referring to. So, on one level, the proliferation of the guide will be dependent upon the rollout of the hardware. Whether or not it's available in every single market, I think it's still too early to say what the exact rollout schedule is. So, we'll give you more as the year progresses. "

Inside sources have told me that the six-tuner DVR's have been in testing since 2011,

Sadly, I don't trust TWC's confidence in being able to develop a reliable cloud based guide. As pointed out, some divisions with Multi-Room service subscriptions and/or Signature Home have the cloud guide already and despite the added search options and VOD cover-art, it still has its share of problems. On the other hand, if TWC would sell out the development of the guide for the newer boxes, (Cisco's and Samsungs) to top-notch IPG developers I would feel more optimistic about its reliability and usability.

Still think that only those subs in a Whole Home or Signature Home Program will get the Six-Tuner DVR's and will pay $10 a month more for them.

I wish investors at these conference calls would actually USE TWC products to assess their strengths and weaknesses. They need to ask the challenging questions. Navigator is only part of the reason with regards to TWC video service loss of subs. Others are:
  • The economy.
  • The inconsistent infrastructure with nodes, equipment, personnel knowledge, and support.
  • A general disinterest in conventional TV viewing as more subs move to mobile technology, Digital Phone, and Internet.

The problem is that Mr. Britt and Mr. Marcus are not program developers, they are CEO business people. If TWC really wants to bring people back to the video service portions of their business, consider:
  • Ala Carte pricing to lower programming costs.
  • Discount rates for (10, 15, 20 year) subs thhat are comparable to new sub deals and discounts.
  • Sales promotions throughout the year. (i,e Buy 4 VOD movies and get the 5th one FREE.) In the 90's, TWC Wisconsin had this program called "Frequent Flicks." You got bonus points for free movies with every VOD you watched.

Jack
post #17884 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Just because TWCs Cable Card support sucks as bad as their Navigator developers doesn't mean HTPC isn't better.

xnappo

Exactly! My HTPC ambitions were doused because TWC just could support a CableCard for me. Constant issues with channels and certain QAMs. While I was using it getting what I could I found it far superior to Navigator. I intend to revisit the HTPC as my Whole Home solution without TWC.
post #17885 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Already have Netflix and Amazon VOD. I plan on adding disc by mail back to my Netflix. May still do an HTPC with just OTA and WMC. The HTPC option gives me the ability to go back to cable, but TWC is so bad here that getting CableCard support is a nightmare which is why i returned my Ceton products. Looking at options all over.

I have everything in to mount my antenna on the roof. I just need the weather to cooperate now! Probably hold out until spring. There is just hardly any value in pay TV to me. It's simply not worth $150 a month for a full cable package to get a handful of channels I want. Satellite providers have better equipment, but in the end cost just as much or more than Time Warner. TiVo doesn't have a 4 tuner model with OTA and recent communications with TWC claim the have no plans to offer VOD like Comcast. The big step was getting the wife on board and she is starting to see things my way. She understands that she'll still get her shows from the networks and the other shows she can wait for to hit Netflix.

My Internet is ready for the switch since I replaced TWC's equipment with my own, so all I have to do is port my phone number and turn in my DVR's.

Ben, if you don't mind me asking, who are you going to use as an ISP?
post #17886 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfogarty5 View Post

I read the Time Warner Cable earnings transcript each quarter to see what new products or services are on the horizon and this quarter's call didn't disappoint.

TWC clearly understands that their video product is underperforming.

"Video stats were a disappointment. ...we still lost 129,000 residential video subs in the fourth quarter and that's just not acceptable. So we've got much more work to do."

So what are they going to do about it? Well, if I read the CEOs quotes correctly, they understand Navigator's shortcomings and are going to rollout a cloud based guide that requires specific hardware.

"Our customers will see a series of updates to our apps that will bring even more content and functionality to more devices. In addition, our cloud-based user interface running on IP set-top boxes and next-generation DVR's will deliver the biggest change to the video experience that our customers have experienced in a decade. These are scheduled for introduction in the second half of the year."

From the question and answer session.

John Hodulik - UBS: "Can we just get some more detail or could you elaborate on a couple of the initiatives you talked about first the rollout of the cloud-based IP guide and you talked about developing more video apps and extending those beyond the home. Can you give us a little bit more detail there and when we could see those?"

Robert D. Marcus - President and COO: "John, with respect to the cloud-based item, I guess the first thing that’s worth mentioning and we've mentioned it before is that we already have a cloud-based guide that's in front of a couple of hundred thousand customers in a couple of markets and we've had out there for a while and we've learned from it. The cloud-based guide I was referring to is what we call our hosted navigation product. It will be available back half of this year. It will work on our new IP set-top boxes. It will work on what is essentially a souped-up DVR. Some people have referred to it as a gateway device, which has a terabyte of storage, six tuners and has the ability to transcode video into IP. So, it can be consumed not only by the IP set-top boxes, but by other devices in the home. So, we're looking forward to that. I think the experience will be markedly better than the set-top box based guide experience. It will be easier navigation, more box are better search. All of the things that viewers have come to expect based on their interaction with video on the web. So, I think that's going to be a really exciting change."

John Hodulik - UBS: "First is that new guide and media guide going to be available in all your markets in the second half ?"

Glenn A. Britt - Chairman and CEO: "So, on the guide look, it will not – the guide will initially only function on these new pieces of hardware that I'm referring to. So, on one level, the proliferation of the guide will be dependent upon the rollout of the hardware. Whether or not it's available in every single market, I think it's still too early to say what the exact rollout schedule is. So, we'll give you more as the year progresses. "

What's amazing to me is the lost opportunity cable had over the last five or so years. If they had upgraded their set-top boxes to a platform that allowed apps they would have had so much more market penetration to begin with than all the other TV-connected platforms supporting apps. Then if they made sure that Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc. were on their boxes AND made a deal to allow subs to get those services billed through the cable company... They'd be in good shape. Everyone would want a set-top box AND would think that was the best way to get Netflix, Hulu, etc. Only geeks would have done it through their computers.
post #17887 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdec View Post

Ben, if you don't mind me asking, who are you going to use as an ISP?

I'm stuck with Time Warner. That said, I've replaced their modem with my own and added my own network infrastructure. That saves me the modem fee and since I've replaced their gear, I've had no drop outs. My only other option here is DSL and that won't cut it. I need the 5MB upstream pipe. I've never really had an issue with the Internet (or phone for that matter) until I upgraded to Signature Home. Once I went to the premium tier everything went to crap until I installed my own lines and gear. Navigator and their whole home solution has always had issues here.
post #17888 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

I'm stuck with Time Warner. That said, I've replaced their modem with my own and added my own network infrastructure. That saves me the modem fee and since I've replaced their gear, I've had no drop outs. My only other option here is DSL and that won't cut it. I need the 5MB upstream pipe. I've never really had an issue with the Internet (or phone for that matter) until I upgraded to Signature Home. Once I went to the premium tier everything went to crap until I installed my own lines and gear. Navigator and their whole home solution has always had issues here.

From what I have heard (and never verified) I thought that if you were dropping down to just internet with Time Warner it is more expensive than internet + bare minimum cable. Where 'bare minimum cable' means just the OTA stations (my impression was there was an FCC regulation requiring them to offer that but you had to put a little effort in when asking for it). So then if you had that, you could plug that into your HDTV instead of the antenna. Then there's no reception issues and you pay a little less and still get the DVR service out of the HDTV.

So what I'm saying here is, I am probably wrong about something above and I was wondering if you could correct my inaccuracies.
post #17889 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdec View Post


From what I have heard (and never verified) I thought that if you were dropping down to just internet with Time Warner it is more expensive than internet + bare minimum cable. Where 'bare minimum cable' means just the OTA stations (my impression was there was an FCC regulation requiring them to offer that but you had to put a little effort in when asking for it). So then if you had that, you could plug that into your HDTV instead of the antenna. Then there's no reception issues and you pay a little less and still get the DVR service out of the HDTV.

So what I'm saying here is, I am probably wrong about something above and I was wondering if you could correct my inaccuracies.

If you are talking about using (only) the HDTV as the tuner ... picking up the few Clear-QAM channels ... you would be better off with an ATSC antenna.

 

IMHO, minimum cable+internet is:

- RoadRunner Standard (15 down / 1 up)

- Basic Digital Cable
- HD Cable upgrade (All free HD channels for $5 per month)

- Non-DVR Digital Adapter (STB tuner) per TV 

 

The bulk of TV cost is in the base subscrition. It's not worth saving $5-$10 per month and not being able to use it's full capabilities. They usually have a package close to the above (might also include digital phone).

 

There is also talk of free (or $1 per month) tuners due to analog cable being removed.

post #17890 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdec View Post

What's amazing to me is the lost opportunity cable had over the last five or so years. If they had upgraded their set-top boxes to a platform that allowed apps they would have had so much more market penetration to begin with than all the other TV-connected platforms supporting apps. Then if they made sure that Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc. were on their boxes AND made a deal to allow subs to get those services billed through the cable company... They'd be in good shape. Everyone would want a set-top box AND would think that was the best way to get Netflix, Hulu, etc. Only geeks would have done it through their computers.

Yes,

Insiders say it is going to take three years to do the full cloud service migration and get the legacy boxes out of the system. Many divisions will only give out the newest boxes to Whole Home Subs, or in the case you get a 3D TV, (3D TV's NOT doing well.) Than you can swap out the box you have for a Cisco, Samsung, or new Motorolla.

I see another nightmare with TWC and the six-tuner DVR's. TWC should not be developing ANYTHING relating to the set-top. They should have made such development true open-source and get Tivo or Moxi to come in and do it right. Customers won't have a say. This means that if your SA-8300 or SA-8300HDC goes on the fritz, you could get another SA-8300HDC very easily. Go to the office and box models vary by division and change constantly. Each box make and model has its own set of bugs. Two techs who were great, told me some years ago, "Keep what you have if it's working. Only if you need the bigger hard drive, should you consider an upgrade if what you have works."

Navigator-wise, I just loved the SA-8300 no-C box! If only those boxes were still supported. They did not do multi-room and had the smaller hard drive, but man did they smoke! Anyone here still on MDN? And remember, you could add a drive expander to MDN. I know customers who have, (Western Digital is the best expander) and you can get tons of added storage. ODN on the newer C-boxes, remains a mixed bag with drive expanders. I wonder if ODN 6.0 will improve that functionality?

Jack
Edited by Satch Man - 2/25/13 at 8:53pm
post #17891 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdec View Post

From what I have heard (and never verified) I thought that if you were dropping down to just internet with Time Warner it is more expensive than internet + bare minimum cable. Where 'bare minimum cable' means just the OTA stations (my impression was there was an FCC regulation requiring them to offer that but you had to put a little effort in when asking for it). So then if you had that, you could plug that into your HDTV instead of the antenna. Then there's no reception issues and you pay a little less and still get the DVR service out of the HDTV.

So what I'm saying here is, I am probably wrong about something above and I was wondering if you could correct my inaccuracies.

I'm my division you get ClearQAMs of all locals and others with just an Internet package. I just did an install for my brother on basic Internet. He is getting all locals, TBS, YNN and a few others in the clear.

I want/need an antenna because even with the ClearQAM channels I won't get my neighboring locals which are actually my real locals and I won't get all the sub channels. I can grab about 25 stations OTA.

OTA yields better PQ plus no Time Warner ad inserts! I can pipe it right into my computer and use WMC as my GUI and DVR.

If the wife desires cable packages after this trial period then I'll look at DirecTV. Dropping TWC is more about the overall service and value per dollar than price. I can afford my Sig Home package, but I just see less and less value in it each day.
post #17892 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post


I'm my division you get ClearQAMs of all locals and others with just an Internet package. I just did an install for my brother on basic Internet. He is getting all locals, TBS, YNN and a few others in the clear.

 

That's my understanding also.

 

When they run the cable to your house for RoadRunner ... there is no way for them to filter away analog cable, ClearQAM, and really ... even the base digital cable signal (not that you can do anything with it without an authorized STB to de-crypt it).

 

So, you get limited (analog and ClearQAM) free cable. Not sure of the legalities of utilizing those signals without paying.

post #17893 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post

That's my understanding also.

When they run the cable to your house for RoadRunner ... there is no way for them to filter away analog cable, ClearQAM, and really ... even the base digital cable signal (not that you can do anything with it without an authorized STB to de-crypt it).

So, you get limited (analog and ClearQAM) free cable. Not sure of the legalities of utilizing those signals without paying.

Now that the FCC has said that cable can encrypt the locals, the free ride will soon be over.
post #17894 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgcss View Post

Now that the FCC has said that cable can encrypt the locals, the free ride will soon be over.

Unless you were willing to go for a Roku with the TWC app which will give you more than ever.
post #17895 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Unless you were willing to go for a Roku with the TWC app which will give you more than ever.

Had a Roku for almost a year, waiting for the app to be released
post #17896 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Unless you were willing to go for a Roku with the TWC app which will give you more than ever.

Not true. You will still need a subscription and have to be on your home network for the app to work. (Just like the phone app) A basic Internet subscription is NOT going to give you access to anything other than what TWC puts in the clear.

They can block analogs here. I saw no analogs when I did his install and I suspect that will move/encrypt the remaining channels eventually once the full conversion to digital is complete. That's another reason for me going OTA.
post #17897 of 18536
Only Roku 2 devices and the streaming stick can access the TWC app. Older Roku devices made before the Roku 2 are not compatible with the app.
post #17898 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Not true. You will still need a subscription and have to be on your home network for the app to work. (Just like the phone app) A basic Internet subscription is NOT going to give you access to anything other than what TWC puts in the clear.
If, as I said, you have or are willing to get the needed Roku box access is to ALL channels you subscribe to. Of course you need a subcription, computer, network, an electrical outlet, blah blah. Most of us have that.
post #17899 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

If, as I said, you have or are willing to get the needed Roku box access is to ALL channels you subscribe to. Of course you need a subcription, computer, network, an electrical outlet, blah blah. Most of us have that.

So - if you have all that - why do you need the Roku box too?
post #17900 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhall1 View Post

So - if you have all that - why do you need the Roku box too?

Cable outlets where you do not have a cable box, replace cable boxes you may want to turn in, for starters.
post #17901 of 18536
He was talking completely out of the context of what we were discussing which is cord cutting with a Roku or Internet only packages and ClearQAM's. If one does that, the Roku app is worthless, which was my point.
post #17902 of 18536
I am talking in context of his post and this thread.
post #17903 of 18536
so tired of TW, for years have been complaining about the dvr and software, so we're done with TW when the current seasons are over, have gotten playon(later) lifetimes for cheap last week, already have netflix disc and instant, will pick up hulu plus then along with a roku for bedroom and use the ps3 in the living room, ben is checking on signals/antenna options for us to possibly do OTA as well
post #17904 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikouka View Post

so tired of TW, for years have been complaining about the dvr and software, so we're done with TW when the current seasons are over, have gotten playon(later) lifetimes for cheap last week, already have netflix disc and instant, will pick up hulu plus then along with a roku for bedroom and use the ps3 in the living room, ben is checking on signals/antenna options for us to possibly do OTA as well

I'll get you some links for antennas. I've been swamped. When I did a terrain based signal analysis for you I believe I told you a medium range antenna should get pretty much all locals. I'm still waiting on the weather to break long enough for me to get on my roof and install mine. I'm going to use WMC as my Whole Home DVR for OTA with Xbox 360's as Extenders unless Ceton gets the Echo up to snuff. So in a way, still going the HTPC route minus Time Warner. The advantage is that I can use commercial skipping software due to the OTA not being flagged as Copy Protected so my solution will be "Hopper like".
post #17905 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

I'll get you some links for antennas. I've been swamped. When I did a terrain based signal analysis for you I believe I told you a medium range antenna should get pretty much all locals. I'm still waiting on the weather to break long enough for me to get on my roof and install mine. I'm going to use WMC as my Whole Home DVR for OTA with Xbox 360's as Extenders unless Ceton gets the Echo up to snuff. So in a way, still going the HTPC route minus Time Warner. The advantage is that I can use commercial skipping software due to the OTA not being flagged as Copy Protected so my solution will be "Hopper like".

Ben,

Are you still keeping TWC Internet and dropping Digital Phone? (Just back to Standard Internet. No Turbo, Extreme, or Lightning?)

Jack
post #17906 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

Ben,

Are you still keeping TWC Internet and dropping Digital Phone? (Just back to Standard Internet. No Turbo, Extreme, or Lightning?)

Jack

Dropping down to the 30/5 plan because it's the cheapest with the 5Mbps up speed. I transfer a lot of files and with all the connected devices in my house, I can use the extra bandwidth. I will probably drop phone because I doubt they will give me an acceptable rate without the full bundle. I'll move to an Ooma for home phone.
post #17907 of 18536
thanks ben, not in a hurry so whenever is convenient for you, ota would just be an addition to the streaming options we're looking at

were dropping everything but roadrunner but sticking to the 'regular' supposedly 15/2 service we have for now, but i'm pretty sure we're goin to the 30/5 to support the additional streaming
post #17908 of 18536
Noticed tonight that my 8742 has ODN 7_0_0_4 in its queue. Still running 6.0_0_19.

I can say that ODN 6 has been the most stable release. It still lacks many features and the biggest gripe is lack combined schedule to manage recordings which causes missed recordings due to unreported Conflicts.

I don't know if they will deploy 7 before I turn everything in and cancel, but if they do I will report on it.
post #17909 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Noticed tonight that my 8742 has ODN 7_0_0_4 in its queue. Still running 6.0_0_19.

I can say that ODN 6 has been the most stable release. It still lacks many features and the biggest gripe is lack combined schedule to manage recordings which causes missed recordings due to unreported Conflicts.

I don't know if they will deploy 7 before I turn everything in and cancel, but if they do I will report on it.

That's good Ben that the updates are in the query. Of course we know it can take many, many, MANY months before they are downloaded. I still think that inconsistent infrastructure, knowledge of CSR/Field techs fluctuates too much, and inflation raises are driving customers away from the cable TV part of the service more than anything else. A huge customer upset is TWC charging that friggin Navigator fee for the cloud-based boxes. I used to think that it would be cool to have the newest boxes with the expanded search functions, but not so much anymore if TWC is gonna charge extra for the Cloud Services. If and/or when more legacy boxes in the field get them, it doesn't matter if it's months to years, rates will go up anyway.

Good to see that Navigator is finally getting more stable, but unfortunately at a price. That's an issue.

Jack
post #17910 of 18536
Much of the time the Cloud based services don't work here. We get a message that its "Not Available". Generally when a new Nav version is in the stream it means employees are testing it.
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