Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 597

Just because TWCs Cable Card support sucks as bad as their Navigator developers doesn't mean HTPC isn't better.

xnappo

Same here Minnow in Wisconsin,

My SA-8300HDC clips along ok. It still slows down like once a month to forty-five days out, but that hasn't happened for awhile (Knock on wood.) It has been said that the competition has better boxes/guides, but TWC is at least better to do Customer Retention Deals. However, ALL the prices are going up, so users regardless will want to look for discounts where they can. Yes, Navigator could use some better features like Keyword Search, but the first priority has to be reliability over new features, so I think that has gotten better.

I mean, don't get me wrong! Across divisions, there is still terrible inconsistency with the quality and performance of the guide. It just seems that IF you are in a TWC division that is reasonably competent in service and support and the nodes are cooperative with the receiving and transmission of data, as well as a decent box that works, not so much a modern box, but a box that works well, you can be OK.

Once that infrastructure for video services gets more improvements and division consistency the video services and boxes will improve.

Later this year will be the six-tuner DVR's. Anyone know makes and models? Early reports are it will be Navigator-based. There will probably be a $10 added charge for it and at least for now, they will probably only offer those boxes for Signature Home and Whole House Subs. If you have only one TV you don't need six tuners. Several people are like that including me. I predict that boxes will only be replaced on a customer case by case basis. Really, if you don't do a lot of recording, have only one or two TV's and your SA-8300 or SA-8300HDC works good, might as well keep the box. You just don't know how well or not well a different box is going to behave in an exchange.

Jack
Edited by Satch Man - 2/18/13 at 8:16pm

Had a weird thing happen on my Cisco 8742 DVR twice in the last week. The box had been running 3 weeks since the prior reboot and it started being unresponsive/slow to the remote (like others had complained about happening every 4-6 weeks). But here's where it gets strange. I noticed that though the red REC light was lit on the front panel of the DVR, when I brought up the DVR recordings info with the LIST button on the remote, it didn't display the program being recorded! (Normally, it would show the program being recorded at/near the top of the list sorted by date, with the REC icon to the right to indicate it's currently being recorded). I then checked the Scheduled recordings list and saw the program it was supposed to be recording, still in the Scheduled list (normally, as soon as the recording actually begins, the entry moves from Scheduled to the DVR recordings list). Stranger still, I decided to check the Diagnostics and saw some unusual stuff on page 1; the entries at the top for VOD stuff were in red instead of green (I don't recall exactly what the entries were, but it was something like "Stale/Unavailable") and the entries for the Bootstrapper, Network and Monitor Versions were unavailable, only the ODN version had a valid version number in it.

I waited until the show being recorded ended, hoping it would show up in the list, but no luck, and the next program that was supposed to record was having the same thing happen to it (and I noticed that several other recordings that were supposed to be recorded earlier that evening were missing too). I rebooted at that point, figuring things weren't going to get better. After the reboot, I checked the Diagnostics page 1 and the VOD info was back to valid/green info and all the software version #s were back to valid version #s. The programs that were supposedly recorded prior to the reboot still weren't in the recorded list, but the disk percentage full had gone up a good chunk, as if all those missing programs were being included in the disk full calculation. I then noticed that some programs that I had been watching and deleted (prior to the reboot) were now back in the list, I tried playing them, but there was no playback, just a black screen, so I then deleted them, again. Interestingly, the disk full percentage didn't go down after deleting the phantom recordings. I then checked some other recordings that I had started watching that evening (again, prior to the reboot), but didn't complete/delete; they were set to the beginning of the recording, rather than where I had left off, as if they hadn't been watched at all!

The same thing happened exactly one week later; had to reboot to get the box working again. I still don't know exactly what caused it; I don't think it is time related in my case, since the second instance happened one week after a reboot, and the prior one had been 3 weeks after a reboot. I know I was adjusting the Series entries during the most recent occurrence. I had changed the Priority of one show and some details in the entries of others; perhaps, ODN got messed up in the recalculations for scheduling recordings while one of the programs it was rescheduling was actually recording? (just speculation on my part)

Anyway, it seems most likely to me that data memory in the software was getting trashed, given the missing/corrupt entries in the Diagnostics, and the missing/corrupt hard disk pointers for the recordings. I suspect that when I eventually clear off all my recordings, the disk full percentage will still be significantly above 0% and that I'll have to go through the process to clean/reformat the disk to recover that space.

Haven't heard anyone else having a problem like this. I'll keep an eye out for it again and see if I can figure out a way to reliably recreate the problem. Don't know if that will happen before the box gets the new version of ODN, but I'll try to keep you all posted. In the meantime, I called TWC; at least they gave me a credit for the missed recordings.

Warren
Edited by warren193 - 2/15/13 at 3:10pm

I read the Time Warner Cable earnings transcript each quarter to see what new products or services are on the horizon and this quarter's call didn't disappoint.

TWC clearly understands that their video product is underperforming.

"Video stats were a disappointment. ...we still lost 129,000 residential video subs in the fourth quarter and that's just not acceptable. So we've got much more work to do."

So what are they going to do about it? Well, if I read the CEOs quotes correctly, they understand Navigator's shortcomings and are going to rollout a cloud based guide that requires specific hardware.

"Our customers will see a series of updates to our apps that will bring even more content and functionality to more devices. In addition, our cloud-based user interface running on IP set-top boxes and next-generation DVR's will deliver the biggest change to the video experience that our customers have experienced in a decade. These are scheduled for introduction in the second half of the year."

From the question and answer session.

John Hodulik - UBS: "Can we just get some more detail or could you elaborate on a couple of the initiatives you talked about first the rollout of the cloud-based IP guide and you talked about developing more video apps and extending those beyond the home. Can you give us a little bit more detail there and when we could see those?"

Robert D. Marcus - President and COO: "John, with respect to the cloud-based item, I guess the first thing that’s worth mentioning and we've mentioned it before is that we already have a cloud-based guide that's in front of a couple of hundred thousand customers in a couple of markets and we've had out there for a while and we've learned from it. The cloud-based guide I was referring to is what we call our hosted navigation product. It will be available back half of this year. It will work on our new IP set-top boxes. It will work on what is essentially a souped-up DVR. Some people have referred to it as a gateway device, which has a terabyte of storage, six tuners and has the ability to transcode video into IP. So, it can be consumed not only by the IP set-top boxes, but by other devices in the home. So, we're looking forward to that. I think the experience will be markedly better than the set-top box based guide experience. It will be easier navigation, more box are better search. All of the things that viewers have come to expect based on their interaction with video on the web. So, I think that's going to be a really exciting change."

John Hodulik - UBS: "First is that new guide and media guide going to be available in all your markets in the second half ?"

Glenn A. Britt - Chairman and CEO: "So, on the guide look, it will not – the guide will initially only function on these new pieces of hardware that I'm referring to. So, on one level, the proliferation of the guide will be dependent upon the rollout of the hardware. Whether or not it's available in every single market, I think it's still too early to say what the exact rollout schedule is. So, we'll give you more as the year progresses. "

Had the exact same occurrence a few months back with my 8742, but it hasn't reoccurred since. I make it a habit to reboot every 1-2 weeks now as a pre-emptive measure rather than waiting for things to go bad in bizarre ways.

Inside sources have told me that the six-tuner DVR's have been in testing since 2011,

Sadly, I don't trust TWC's confidence in being able to develop a reliable cloud based guide. As pointed out, some divisions with Multi-Room service subscriptions and/or Signature Home have the cloud guide already and despite the added search options and VOD cover-art, it still has its share of problems. On the other hand, if TWC would sell out the development of the guide for the newer boxes, (Cisco's and Samsungs) to top-notch IPG developers I would feel more optimistic about its reliability and usability.

Still think that only those subs in a Whole Home or Signature Home Program will get the Six-Tuner DVR's and will pay $10 a month more for them.

I wish investors at these conference calls would actually USE TWC products to assess their strengths and weaknesses. They need to ask the challenging questions. Navigator is only part of the reason with regards to TWC video service loss of subs. Others are:

• The economy.
• The inconsistent infrastructure with nodes, equipment, personnel knowledge, and support.
• A general disinterest in conventional TV viewing as more subs move to mobile technology, Digital Phone, and Internet.

The problem is that Mr. Britt and Mr. Marcus are not program developers, they are CEO business people. If TWC really wants to bring people back to the video service portions of their business, consider:

• Ala Carte pricing to lower programming costs.
• Discount rates for (10, 15, 20 year) subs thhat are comparable to new sub deals and discounts.
• Sales promotions throughout the year. (i,e Buy 4 VOD movies and get the 5th one FREE.) In the 90's, TWC Wisconsin had this program called "Frequent Flicks." You got bonus points for free movies with every VOD you watched.

Jack

Exactly! My HTPC ambitions were doused because TWC just could support a CableCard for me. Constant issues with channels and certain QAMs. While I was using it getting what I could I found it far superior to Navigator. I intend to revisit the HTPC as my Whole Home solution without TWC.

Ben, if you don't mind me asking, who are you going to use as an ISP?

What's amazing to me is the lost opportunity cable had over the last five or so years. If they had upgraded their set-top boxes to a platform that allowed apps they would have had so much more market penetration to begin with than all the other TV-connected platforms supporting apps. Then if they made sure that Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc. were on their boxes AND made a deal to allow subs to get those services billed through the cable company... They'd be in good shape. Everyone would want a set-top box AND would think that was the best way to get Netflix, Hulu, etc. Only geeks would have done it through their computers.

I'm stuck with Time Warner. That said, I've replaced their modem with my own and added my own network infrastructure. That saves me the modem fee and since I've replaced their gear, I've had no drop outs. My only other option here is DSL and that won't cut it. I need the 5MB upstream pipe. I've never really had an issue with the Internet (or phone for that matter) until I upgraded to Signature Home. Once I went to the premium tier everything went to crap until I installed my own lines and gear. Navigator and their whole home solution has always had issues here.

From what I have heard (and never verified) I thought that if you were dropping down to just internet with Time Warner it is more expensive than internet + bare minimum cable. Where 'bare minimum cable' means just the OTA stations (my impression was there was an FCC regulation requiring them to offer that but you had to put a little effort in when asking for it). So then if you had that, you could plug that into your HDTV instead of the antenna. Then there's no reception issues and you pay a little less and still get the DVR service out of the HDTV.

So what I'm saying here is, I am probably wrong about something above and I was wondering if you could correct my inaccuracies.

If you are talking about using (only) the HDTV as the tuner ... picking up the few Clear-QAM channels ... you would be better off with an ATSC antenna.

 

IMHO, minimum cable+internet is:

- RoadRunner Standard (15 down / 1 up)

- Basic Digital Cable
- HD Cable upgrade (All free HD channels for $5 per month)

- Non-DVR Digital Adapter (STB tuner) per TV 

 

The bulk of TV cost is in the base subscrition. It's not worth saving $5-$10 per month and not being able to use it's full capabilities. They usually have a package close to the above (might also include digital phone).

 

There is also talk of free (or $1 per month) tuners due to analog cable being removed.

Yes,

Insiders say it is going to take three years to do the full cloud service migration and get the legacy boxes out of the system. Many divisions will only give out the newest boxes to Whole Home Subs, or in the case you get a 3D TV, (3D TV's NOT doing well.) Than you can swap out the box you have for a Cisco, Samsung, or new Motorolla.

I see another nightmare with TWC and the six-tuner DVR's. TWC should not be developing ANYTHING relating to the set-top. They should have made such development true open-source and get Tivo or Moxi to come in and do it right. Customers won't have a say. This means that if your SA-8300 or SA-8300HDC goes on the fritz, you could get another SA-8300HDC very easily. Go to the office and box models vary by division and change constantly. Each box make and model has its own set of bugs. Two techs who were great, told me some years ago, "Keep what you have if it's working. Only if you need the bigger hard drive, should you consider an upgrade if what you have works."

Navigator-wise, I just loved the SA-8300 no-C box! If only those boxes were still supported. They did not do multi-room and had the smaller hard drive, but man did they smoke! Anyone here still on MDN? And remember, you could add a drive expander to MDN. I know customers who have, (Western Digital is the best expander) and you can get tons of added storage. ODN on the newer C-boxes, remains a mixed bag with drive expanders. I wonder if ODN 6.0 will improve that functionality?

Jack
Edited by Satch Man - 2/25/13 at 8:53pm

I'm my division you get ClearQAMs of all locals and others with just an Internet package. I just did an install for my brother on basic Internet. He is getting all locals, TBS, YNN and a few others in the clear.

I want/need an antenna because even with the ClearQAM channels I won't get my neighboring locals which are actually my real locals and I won't get all the sub channels. I can grab about 25 stations OTA.

OTA yields better PQ plus no Time Warner ad inserts! I can pipe it right into my computer and use WMC as my GUI and DVR.

If the wife desires cable packages after this trial period then I'll look at DirecTV. Dropping TWC is more about the overall service and value per dollar than price. I can afford my Sig Home package, but I just see less and less value in it each day.

That's my understanding also.

 

When they run the cable to your house for RoadRunner ... there is no way for them to filter away analog cable, ClearQAM, and really ... even the base digital cable signal (not that you can do anything with it without an authorized STB to de-crypt it).

 

So, you get limited (analog and ClearQAM) free cable. Not sure of the legalities of utilizing those signals without paying.

Now that the FCC has said that cable can encrypt the locals, the free ride will soon be over.

Unless you were willing to go for a Roku with the TWC app which will give you more than ever.

Had a Roku for almost a year, waiting for the app to be released

Not true. You will still need a subscription and have to be on your home network for the app to work. (Just like the phone app) A basic Internet subscription is NOT going to give you access to anything other than what TWC puts in the clear.

They can block analogs here. I saw no analogs when I did his install and I suspect that will move/encrypt the remaining channels eventually once the full conversion to digital is complete. That's another reason for me going OTA.

Only Roku 2 devices and the streaming stick can access the TWC app. Older Roku devices made before the Roku 2 are not compatible with the app.

If, as I said, you have or are willing to get the needed Roku box access is to ALL channels you subscribe to. Of course you need a subcription, computer, network, an electrical outlet, blah blah. Most of us have that.

So - if you have all that - why do you need the Roku box too?

Cable outlets where you do not have a cable box, replace cable boxes you may want to turn in, for starters.

He was talking completely out of the context of what we were discussing which is cord cutting with a Roku or Internet only packages and ClearQAM's. If one does that, the Roku app is worthless, which was my point.

I am talking in context of his post and this thread.

so tired of TW, for years have been complaining about the dvr and software, so we're done with TW when the current seasons are over, have gotten playon(later) lifetimes for cheap last week, already have netflix disc and instant, will pick up hulu plus then along with a roku for bedroom and use the ps3 in the living room, ben is checking on signals/antenna options for us to possibly do OTA as well

I'll get you some links for antennas. I've been swamped. When I did a terrain based signal analysis for you I believe I told you a medium range antenna should get pretty much all locals. I'm still waiting on the weather to break long enough for me to get on my roof and install mine. I'm going to use WMC as my Whole Home DVR for OTA with Xbox 360's as Extenders unless Ceton gets the Echo up to snuff. So in a way, still going the HTPC route minus Time Warner. The advantage is that I can use commercial skipping software due to the OTA not being flagged as Copy Protected so my solution will be "Hopper like".

Ben,

Are you still keeping TWC Internet and dropping Digital Phone? (Just back to Standard Internet. No Turbo, Extreme, or Lightning?)

Jack

Dropping down to the 30/5 plan because it's the cheapest with the 5Mbps up speed. I transfer a lot of files and with all the connected devices in my house, I can use the extra bandwidth. I will probably drop phone because I doubt they will give me an acceptable rate without the full bundle. I'll move to an Ooma for home phone.

thanks ben, not in a hurry so whenever is convenient for you, ota would just be an addition to the streaming options we're looking at

were dropping everything but roadrunner but sticking to the 'regular' supposedly 15/2 service we have for now, but i'm pretty sure we're goin to the 30/5 to support the additional streaming