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Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 605

post #18121 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgcss View Post

Appears no one really looked at mpeg-2 compression.

Frame 1 is compressed and sent, frame 2 is compared to frame 1 and the differences are extracted, compressed and sent. 3 to 2 and so one for a whole bunch of frames, eventually the cycle is started over and a full frame is sent.

On playback the full frame is displayed, the next partial frame is added to previous displayed frame and the new frame is displayed. Going forward is simple along with the compensation.

Going backward not simple. Remove the last frame and the picture will have "holes" in it, so the program has to jump back to the last full frame. How far depends on where you start. Then try to get the compensation right. NOT EASY!

Lots of code and processing cycles, all while trying to record 2 shows in the background.

That is all true but should be irrelevant.  These boxes always resume playback from (or pause on) an I-Frame (the "full" frame)... ever notice that you can't always pause exactly where you want to? The buffering you refer to is a normal part of the MPEG decoding process... it's ALWAYS required to assemble the GOPs (Groups Of Pictures... the set of frames assembled from an initial I frame and subsequent P and B "difference" frames).   It doesn't matter to the frame buffering process whether you resume playback at the nearest I frame relative to when play button is pressed or whether it picks up the stream from the hard drive some number of I-Frames earlier.

 

As someone already mentioned, the most damning evidence that it is NOT a buffering resource issue is that the exact same functionality is still there in the form of the Replay button... as well as the fact that the feature has been supported perfectly well by a variety of hardware for many years.  

 

The situation is certainly different for On Demand / Start Over type programming... especially for non-DVR boxes.  For those situations, I can see it being either a buffering or command and control nightmare... or both.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this is a prerequisite step leading to grander set of cloud/server based offerings. 

post #18122 of 18536
It's fun debating the what-if of how the compensation works. The bottom line is that TWC doesn't pay any attention to what those of us here think or want. We could all cancel their sevice and it would not affect their bottom line. Even worse is that the other options for TV aren't really any better or aren't available in my/your area.
post #18123 of 18536
Had the cable guy out,

Really nice! He said our signals were good, and he swapped the box to hopefully avoid the pixilation problem we have been having every few days (On a couple channels). He said that they had a staff meeting about the Caller ID on TV thing and the consensus was that as long as its working, the powers that be don't really care about the calls duplicating. The tech seemed very honest, and spoke clearly.

We have the swapped boxed activated so it's just going to be wait and see. I did see something that I had not seen before. After the Cable Card Firnware Upgrade that he did from the truck, there was a "Your TV Will Be With You Shortly" Message with a blue circle in the bottom center of the screen representing the load number on the box. It took longer to load because of the new data.

Jack
post #18124 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

That is all true but should be irrelevant.  These boxes always resume playback from (or pause on) an I-Frame (the "full" frame)... ever notice that you can't always pause exactly where you want to? The buffering you refer to is a normal part of the MPEG decoding process... it's ALWAYS required to assemble the GOPs (Groups Of Pictures... the set of frames assembled from an initial I frame and subsequent P and B "difference" frames).   It doesn't matter to the frame buffering process whether you resume playback at the nearest I frame relative to when play button is pressed or whether it picks up the stream from the hard drive some number of I-Frames earlier.

As someone already mentioned, the most damning evidence that it is NOT a buffering resource issue is that the exact same functionality is still there in the form of the Replay button... as well as the fact that the feature has been supported perfectly well by a variety of hardware for many years.  

The situation is certainly different for On Demand / Start Over type programming... especially for non-DVR boxes.  For those situations, I can see it being either a buffering or command and control nightmare... or both.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this is a prerequisite step leading to grander set of cloud/server based offerings. 

RR/FF on Demand has always sucked for years. Probably because it's happening from the "live server" and not just a buffer situation, or a recorded show. On the boxes that I have, On Demand has always gone out 3x max and never 4x. I think 4x would be too hard to coordinate.

Jack
post #18125 of 18536
Just wanted to share a Good Tech Experience:

With all the controversy and back-lash over bad TWC techs, I thought it would be cool to make a thread about good tech experiences here. Let's try to post only good tech experiences here, and see how it goes: I had Caller ID on TV multiple call logs, and intermittent pixiation on maybe three channels. I have Triple Play, with HBO, Showtime, and Sports Pass.

Tech brought out the SA-8300HDC. Picture seems clearer though and when he activated it from his truck, after the Cable Card boot up there was a screen that said something like. (You can't get the newer boxes in my division unless you are a Signature Home or Whole Home Sub.)

"Your TV Experience Will Begin in a Few Moments" (or similar words.) The bottom of the screen in the center had a count-down button that corresponded to the L-11, L-10...(ect) on the screen. I had never seen that quoted message before.

Still same version of Navigator. DVR Compensation is still there. The only thing that I had to do was I set the SD channels to Stretch. And I had to change channels before the box would take the Stretch setting.

The older software started counting down at L-13. This one starts at L-11, so something was shortened in the boot sector sequence. The box I just swapped also had the count-down start at L-11.

He also gave me a little "Getting Started With TWC book." The tech had his name and cell number inside the pocket of the book, which I thought was a nice touch. I liked his honesty about the Caller ID. He could have lied and said, "Oh, yea, we are really working on it and hopefully it will be fixed soon." Instead he said, "We had a staff meeting and the consensus was that as long as it was working, our guys didn't really care when it got fixed. They felt that as long as it is logging the calls, that this was the most important aspect.

He also called ahead of time and asked some questions just to verify the problems we were having, how long they were going on, could we guess the age of the box. This tech was excellent.

Satch
post #18126 of 18536
Interesting Navigator issue on my swapped SA-8300HDC for another SA-8300HDC:

On the first box, I Output Res everything to 1080i to prevent the picture flickering. However, on this swapped box, if I don't the proper resolution's radio buttons match the output for the channel I will get choppy audio for the first 30 seconds or so when the box is initially turned on, along with sometimes video flash. If the actual resolution has been selected on the box to match the output resolution for that channel there is no audio distortion.

This SA-8300HDC also seems to have a brighter LCD display. Maybe this was (is) a newer build of the SA-8300HDC.

Jack
Edited by Satch Man - 6/16/13 at 3:52am
post #18127 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

Interesting Navigator issue on my swapped SA-8300HDC for another SA-8300HDC:

On the first box, I Output Res everything to 1080i to prevent the picture flickering. However, on this swapped box, if I don't the proper resolution's radio buttons match the output for the channel I will get choppy audio for the first 30 seconds or so when the box is initially turned on, along with sometimes video flash. If the actual resolution has been selected on the box to match the output resolution for that channel there is no audio distortion.

This SA-8300HDC also seems to have a brighter LCD display. Maybe this was (is) a newer build of the SA-8300HDC.

Jack

Yea,

Still getting audio drop-outs for about 30 seconds when box is booted up and maybe one video flash. I have sort of been able to use the workaround of having the box power up to an SD channel (Channel 1) and than wait for several seconds than start channel surfing. When you guys lost DVR Compensation for ODN 6.1.05, was there a cable-card upgrade that went along with it.?

The box does not show audio drop-outs or problems after that first 30 seconds.

Jack
Edited by Satch Man - 6/17/13 at 2:23am
post #18128 of 18536
Looks like my fears came true....we have now switched to the "genre-based" channel lineup.

I went to the online DVR tool to check my scheduled recordings...and now that all the "800's" (HD channels) are gone from my lineup....so are my scheduled recordings for the next 7 days out. "Show List" says I have no scheduled recordings. Bastages! I'm not home to check the physical box, but what a PITA. The other great thing is when I try to set a recoring via the online tool - it won't "take", just sits there and spins. Another way of Time Warner helping me "enjoy better".
post #18129 of 18536
Make sure that your on screen program guide (grid) is set to "all channels". I had the same problem and found that my grid was set to "subscribed" channels. When I switched it back, problem solved.
post #18130 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhall1 View Post

Looks like my fears came true....we have now switched to the "genre-based" channel lineup.

I went to the online DVR tool to check my scheduled recordings...and now that all the "800's" (HD channels) are gone from my lineup....so are my scheduled recordings for the next 7 days out. "Show List" says I have no scheduled recordings. Bastages! I'm not home to check the physical box, but what a PITA. The other great thing is when I try to set a recoring via the online tool - it won't "take", just sits there and spins. Another way of Time Warner helping me "enjoy better".

If I recall correctly (it was ~two years ago), when our lineup was revamped here anything that was currently scheduled was carried over/updated to the new lineup.  Any shows that were outside of the 7-day guide window (i.e., out of season series) had to be rescheduled manually once they came back in season.

post #18131 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by williexxx View Post

Make sure that your on screen program guide (grid) is set to "all channels". I had the same problem and found that my grid was set to "subscribed" channels. When I switched it back, problem solved.

I'll take a look when I get home.....hopefully that's all it is, but not sure why the web and iOS tools don't show anything either....or how the setting got changed (if it did). I had an online chat with one of TWCs "bots" who didn't know jack about whether the lineup change would affect previously scheduled recordings....but he "reset the signals" on my box from his end and told me to check when I got home and if still having problems I could set up a service call. I told him I would hope a channel lineup change wouldn't necessitate service calls to all their customers and dropped out of the chat.
post #18132 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhall1 View Post

I'll take a look when I get home.....hopefully that's all it is, but not sure why the web and iOS tools don't show anything either....or how the setting got changed (if it did). I had an online chat with one of TWCs "bots" who didn't know jack about whether the lineup change would affect previously scheduled recordings....but he "reset the signals" on my box from his end and told me to check when I got home and if still having problems I could set up a service call. I told him I would hope a channel lineup change wouldn't necessitate service calls to all their customers and dropped out of the chat.

i checked my dvr manager and it says there are no scheduled recordings, when i was home the other day and checked it had many....

i wouldn't be remotely surprised if the lineup change did screw up the recordings, i wouldn't put it past the incredible incompetence of timewarner to mess this up

i tried the online chat 'johnny' (joginder more likely rolleyes.gif) and he said that the dvr wont record if its not turned on....twice...at that point i just closed the chat, rated all 1's on the survey and expressed my displeasure in the comment box
post #18133 of 18536
Time Warner is going to be offering a completely cloud based GUI for Sig Home in Sept.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-10/time-warner-cable-to-test-video-guide-in-n-y-l-a-in-september.html

Could this be the beginning of the end of Navigator? I doubt it, because new boxes are supposed to be rolled out for it and limited to Sig Home. That said, Sig Home subs might finally get a better service/experience than the standard sub base. Time will tell.
post #18134 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Time Warner is going to be offering a completely cloud based GUI for Sig Home in Sept.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-10/time-warner-cable-to-test-video-guide-in-n-y-l-a-in-september.html

Could this be the beginning of the end of Navigator? I doubt it, because new boxes are supposed to be rolled out for it and limited to Sig Home. That said, Sig Home subs might finally get a better service/experience than the standard sub base. Time will tell.

Will this new guide (or the one that is theme based right now) look and act like the Roku app guide? I have the Roku guide on one TV and I like it.
post #18135 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorCAD View Post

Will this new guide (or the one that is theme based right now) look and act like the Roku app guide? I have the Roku guide on one TV and I like it.

No idea what they have planned or even what set top will run it, but it should eliminate the excuse of the hardware not being able to be programmed (even though Aptiv did it 10 years ago better on older hardware-LOL).
post #18136 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikouka View Post

i checked my dvr manager and it says there are no scheduled recordings, when i was home the other day and checked it had many....

i wouldn't be remotely surprised if the lineup change did screw up the recordings, i wouldn't put it past the incredible incompetence of timewarner to mess this up

i tried the online chat 'johnny' (joginder more likely rolleyes.gif) and he said that the dvr wont record if its not turned on....twice...at that point i just closed the chat, rated all 1's on the survey and expressed my displeasure in the comment box

Well....the machine shows all the programs I set to record out through next Sunday....the web tool still says I have no scheduled recordings....hopefully this all straightens out from next Monday on.
post #18137 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

Yea,

Still getting audio drop-outs for about 30 seconds when box is booted up and maybe one video flash. I have sort of been able to use the workaround of having the box power up to an SD channel (Channel 1) and than wait for several seconds than start channel surfing. When you guys lost DVR Compensation for ODN 6.1.05, was there a cable-card upgrade that went along with it.?

The box does not show audio drop-outs or problems after that first 30 seconds.

Jack

My relative the computer engineer is suggesting checking the TV website for software updates regarding the 30-sec to 1 minute audio dropouts with HDMI cable before switching to Component Cables. I'll keep you guys posted and hopefully have a solution by later this week when he might be available to do this.

Satch
post #18138 of 18536
HDMI issue fixed for now,

TV Firmware update did nothing, but new HDMI cable and changing the port on the TV did.

Jack
post #18139 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

No idea what they have planned or even what set top will run it, but it should eliminate the excuse of the hardware not being able to be programmed (even though Aptiv did it 10 years ago better on older hardware-LOL).

I miss Passport, Ben!

Jack
post #18140 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

As someone already mentioned, the most damning evidence that it is NOT a buffering resource issue is that the exact same functionality is still there in the form of the Replay button... as well as the fact that the feature has been supported perfectly well by a variety of hardware for many years.   
There's a similar thread going on in the timewarnercable forums where I did a rough calculation of how much memory it would take to buffer 3 seconds of MPEG 2 video. Conservatively, it would require roughly 7.5 MB of RAM. And the 15 second skip back via the Replay button would surely require 5 times the memory of a 3 second skip back. Furthermore if they have stored the prior 15 seconds of video in RAM then why not retain the DVR compensation feature and use the same buffer to provide both features? Since TWC decided to remove the DVR compensation despite these facts, one can only conclude that there are other hidden reasons that TWC has for removing this feature that they don't want to disclose to their customers. One potential explanation if that they agreed to cripple their DVRs as part of a legal settlement with TIVO, but only TWC employees know for sure, and they aren't telling...
post #18141 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjwebb View Post


There's a similar thread going on in the timewarnercable forums where I did a rough calculation of how much memory it would take to buffer 3 seconds of MPEG 2 video. Conservatively, it would require roughly 7.5 MB of RAM. And the 15 second skip back via the Replay button would surely require 5 times the memory of a 3 second skip back. Furthermore if they have stored the prior 15 seconds of video in RAM then why not retain the DVR compensation feature and use the same buffer to provide both features? Since TWC decided to remove the DVR compensation despite these facts, one can only conclude that there are other hidden reasons that TWC has for removing this feature that they don't want to disclose to their customers. One potential explanation if that they agreed to cripple their DVRs as part of a legal settlement with TIVO, but only TWC employees know for sure, and they aren't telling...

I do not believe that the video for either the skipback or compensation intervals are buffered in RAM at all... at least not any more than "normal" MPEG decoding requires to reconstruct regular video frames from combinations of I, P & B MPEG frames.  Certainly not the full three or five or fifteen seconds of the jumpback interval.  The MPEG frames are already buffered on the hard drive and only require adjusting the reentry point into the stream. 

 

There are almost certainly reasons beyond any of this that, as you note, TWC is not being forthcoming about. Funny thing is that we (general customer base as well as the techies among us) would probably be more understanding...sympathetic, even... if they were more forthcoming as to the reasons.

post #18142 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

There are almost certainly reasons beyond any of this that, as you note, TWC is not being forthcoming about.
Perhaps they want to make it more difficult to bypass commercials? rolleyes.gif
post #18143 of 18536
Well....now that our channel lineup has been altered....the web-based DVR Manager will not allow me to schedule recordings for any channels in the 2 - 100 range (haven't tried higher numbers) that have an "HD equivalent" channel....channels without an HD equivalent I can set fine (but don't because I don't record anything that's not HD). Of course all the "800s" (formerly where our HD channels resided) are no longer showing in the DVR MAnger listing....so I can't brute force a recording either.

Two fruitless chat sessions so far where they have reset my box both times......to no avail. However, I do have an escalation ID this time - whoop de doo
post #18144 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhall1 View Post

Well....now that our channel lineup has been altered....the web-based DVR Manager will not allow me to schedule recordings for any channels in the 2 - 100 range (haven't tried higher numbers) that have an "HD equivalent" channel....channels without an HD equivalent I can set fine (but don't because I don't record anything that's not HD). Of course all the "800s" (formerly where our HD channels resided) are no longer showing in the DVR MAnger listing....so I can't brute force a recording either.

Two fruitless chat sessions so far where they have reset my box both times......to no avail. However, I do have an escalation ID this time - whoop de doo

Maybe they don't have the Remote DVR Manager synched to the new line up yet. Seriously, it takes TWC a week or more to do what other companies could do in a day a lot of times! The frustration sucks! What I heard is, do you have your Guide Filter set to "All Channels." For some strange reason, I have read reports that Remote DVR Manager might not schedule unless "All Channels" is selected.

Does the applet just spin around, or freeze when you try to schedule a channel with an HD counterpart? You should report this to the DSL Direct to Tech forum. At that forum, give your account information and mention that your box resets twice did nothing. Here is the link to the TWC Direct to Tech forum:

https://secure.dslreports.com/forum/timewarnerdirect


Jack
post #18145 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch Man View Post

Maybe they don't have the Remote DVR Manager synched to the new line up yet. Seriously, it takes TWC a week or more to do what other companies could do in a day a lot of times! The frustration sucks! What I heard is, do you have your Guide Filter set to "All Channels." For some strange reason, I have read reports that Remote DVR Manager might not schedule unless "All Channels" is selected.

Does the applet just spin around, or freeze when you try to schedule a channel with an HD counterpart? You should report this to the DSL Direct to Tech forum. At that forum, give your account information and mention that your box resets twice did nothing. Here is the link to the TWC Direct to Tech forum:

https://secure.dslreports.com/forum/timewarnerdirect


Jack

I've set the filter to "all" and to "HD" - it makes no difference. It spins for a little bit, then just stops but the "record" badge never appears - I've learned a little more from playing around - below is what I will post to the dslreports forum:

Central NY went to the new genre-based listings this week and now trying to check and set scheduled recordings through the DVR manager is a mess.

1. The list of scheduled recordings does not match what the list on the physical DVR says.  Anything you schedule from the physical box is not shown in the DVR Manager list.
2.  You're supposed to be able to schedule a recording on channels 2 - 99 and if there's an HD equivalent it should defualt to the HD channel.  However, if you do try to schedule a recording on channels 2 - 99 through DVR manager it works for channels with no HD equivalent, but if they do have an HD equivalent nothing happens after you hit the "record" button.
3.  For some of the channels in 2 - 99 that have a "digital" equivalent - listed in the online listing from channels 100 - 200 - you can use the DVR manager to set a HD recording...but this sucks because you have to know about the corresponding listing in the 100 - 200 range and it doesn't schedule recordings for channels like History and Discover even though they are in that range (it did work for my Fox and CBS affiliates though).
4.  I've had two online chat sessions about this and the "drones" on there were less than useless.  All they did was remotely reset my box twice - to no avail.
5.  I Tweeted TWC_Help about it and someone was supposed to call me, but never did.

Having to set up everything from the physical box is a pain and very time consuming.....does TWC know about these issues and are working to fix them, or is this news to everyone?
post #18146 of 18536
"Having to set up everything from the physical box is a pain and very time consuming.....does TWC know about these issues and are working to fix them, or is this news to everyone?"

TWC knows about them but they keep losing dedicated and knowledgeable staff because they were micro-managed by people will little to no knowledge how things should work. I found two very good ex employees working at Minerva Networks who I am using for the middleware on my system. Minerva is outstanding and stable compared to TWC's home brewed solution. If our team finds something wrong that was reported by one our customers they let Minerva tech support know about the issue and we can usually have a solution and or let the customer know when an update will occur to fix the problem in 48-hours.
post #18147 of 18536
I also had a chance to play with the TWC iPad app this weekend and it won't let me record anything either - keeps saying "we were unable to schedule that recording"......really nice....I have to do everything via the physical box which is slow and a PITA to navigate.

So far level 3 tech support is stumped and has supposedly escalated this. I'd like to know if it's just me or is it widespread now in CNY that the genre-based lineup has taken effect? Can anyone else give the DVR Manager a try? If it works, please report your DVR model....mine is a SA-8300HD.
post #18148 of 18536
LoL! Time Warner just left a message about the "new" channel line up that is coming.... only a week late! Another botched attempt at Enjoying Better as most people I talked to feel like they completely screwed this up by putting channels in the wrong genre. So, people will be pissed and in a year or so when they go all digital and change things again they can tick them off further. It never stops.
post #18149 of 18536
Tried scheduling the Tour de France today using the new and improved software here in Syracuse, wow, what a difficult system they have given us. So, started with 'B', search by genre, then bicycle racing, then 2013 tour....it gave me the local NBC channel, so I selected record series....then checked scheduled recordings and it scheduled 1 race, Stage 2!!!!! What about Stage 1???? So I had to log onto the internet and search to find the tour schedule to know it was on cable NBC Sports Network. So went back to the genre, to the place I was before and tried every option and found that by selecting 'All Channels', it listed the other channels the program was on. So at last I was able to schedule the series to record.

Thank you Time Warner for making my life more entertaining! Where is the user guide to tell us regular folks how to use their new 'Search' features????????
post #18150 of 18536
Quote:
Originally Posted by junglegeorge View Post

Tried scheduling the Tour de France today using the new and improved software here in Syracuse, wow, what a difficult system they have given us. So, started with 'B', search by genre, then bicycle racing, then 2013 tour....it gave me the local NBC channel, so I selected record series....then checked scheduled recordings and it scheduled 1 race, Stage 2!!!!! What about Stage 1???? So I had to log onto the internet and search to find the tour schedule to know it was on cable NBC Sports Network. So went back to the genre, to the place I was before and tried every option and found that by selecting 'All Channels', it listed the other channels the program was on. So at last I was able to schedule the series to record.

Thank you Time Warner for making my life more entertaining! Where is the user guide to tell us regular folks how to use their new 'Search' features????????

If they simply instituted a keyword "all" search (as myself and especially Satch have been pushing for) the search issue could easily be avoided. Instead, they choose to over complicate it and waste value able box memory to have this layered and convoluted system. Again, I'll go back to Passport which had a basic keyword search more than 10 years ago. There is no logical or sane reason to have the search system they do. The fact that I have to select "keyword" as an option is just dumb. It should always use the word you are searching for to return results. Only Time Warner could over complicate something that should be so simple.
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