Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 63

Thank you very much.

Now go try to act important to those who choose not to call you on your nonsense.

edit -

Thankfully I'm on your filter but I'm going to post it one more time. Because it seemed to bother you. This was the infamous post that set you to go off.


Wow. Dangerous stuff.

I think the old line is "you can't handle the truth" so up goes the filters. Perfect. Expected. Like the little man behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz.

Satch Man - it looks like TBS HD has shown up on TWC of SE WI - your home market.

Chanell 534. It is not included in the online program guide on the TWC web site but it has arrived on the Navigator guide. I was looking for an announcement but it has shown up with no fanfare. Just in time for the baseball playoffs.

TWC had announced it had struck a deal with TBS HD but only a few markets were mentioned.

I'm happy. Great news on the programming side.

While I hope all the squabbling has ended, could we also please get back on the subject of Navigator? There is a different thread devoted to new HD channels on TW, perhaps you thought you were there.

Nope I thought I was here. But I'll go there and check it out.. Thanks!

Found it thanks.

But I am a bit confused. You mention "could we also get back to the subject of Navigator". Who is "we" you've posted twice in this thread and neither post has had anything to do with Navigator. Last post was July 11th.

It made me a bit curious. As you are a Navigator user you should contribute more. It can only help others experiences. As well as you own.

Give a little, get a little.

But regardless. It would be helpful to all if you chose to contribute more!

By the way where are you from? Most in this thread insist on it. I don't care at all but I thought I'd warn you in advance.

"We" is collective - meaning all of us. Sorry of any confusion there.

I'm sort of an industry insider (sorry, that's all I'll say about that) and became active with all of this misunderstanding about what really was going to happen on 7/1/07. Since then, people have started to recognize what was going on, and my participation has been pretty much co-opted by others.

But I do have a major interest in what is going on regarding Navigator (read into that whatever you will - but no other comment from me).

Because of my situation, I really do have to maintain my anonymity. So, no location, etc. But thanks for the heads up.

Don't want to take this thread further off into another tangent, but the "A, B, C, D" convention is now a standard feature of Blu-ray and HD DVD players.

I just took the time to read some of your posts. Impressive. And I do agree with the points you were making. The posts I read had to do with existing inventory of previously deployed STBs prior to July 1st. And of course they can be redeployed. As well as those that will be returned to inventory after returning from the field. This seemed to be a point of conjecture around the July 1st time frame. It seems simple enough. I understood it at the time. Thanks for your comments.

Looks like I found the right "cheap" remote.

It is not just ABC, but also separate page up/page down and day forward/day backward buttons. Why can't they make button meanning context-sensitive like other DVRs do (stuff like map channel up/down to page up/down when in menu list), so you don't have to look for a universal remote with the most buttons.

By the way, for those who want to map most useful buttons of Navigator's remote, and like to feel the buttons (as opposed to touchscreen), I use URC-10820 and like it very much. It is below $20, has lots of buttons, macro and learning capability. Does not have buttons labeled ABC, but you can learn them on free buttons, for example L1, L2 and L3. I looked all over internet, and this one seems to have the most buttons among the ones that appear to be good (learning, have macros, volume punch through), and the buttons are arranged in a way that you can quickly tell each button without looking.

Navigator Week 3.

Ok tonight was first time my wife got ticked at the box. All set to watch recording of House in HD only to get struck by audio drop outs (analog). It was consistent, every 15-30 seconds lasting 2-5 seconds. It was unwatchable. I pulled the plug on the box and rebooted. Problem seemed to go away after reboot but creeped back towards the end of the show..but not as long a duration more like half second.

While it was rebooting, I got through to TWC. I got CSR to acknowledge the boxes had lots of problems and probably weren't ready for market at release(I was pretty pointed, she was torn between being honest and trying to spin). When I asked if she would email L3 support manager to request an 8300 Passport DVR be held back for me, she lost her patience, recovered a little, then refused. I asked to speak to her supervisor and she put me on hold then hung up on me.

I'm looking into D* but not excited about having to switch. TWC obviously hasn't addressed core problems but for business reasons have been forced to deploy. I'm sure market forces will take care of them in the long run, it will be hard to keep customer base at this rate.

Guide speed is fine for me (8300HDC). Reliability is an issue though. I did not have any series recording issues, but did have a non-discriminate "channel not available" bug. Another things is that the box, when it is time to record, thinks it has used more space than it actually has, but the gas gauge is off the other way (tells me I used a lot less than the actual amount). Maybe it thinks I like surprises. It is a lot of fun to find out that, when I used 14 hrs (out of supposed 20), and want to record a 4 hr show, it proceeds to delete some stuff. And the algorithm for deleting is quite simple-minded - it just deletes the oldest stuff until it is happy with the amount of space. I had an interesting situation that, in order to record a 4 hr show, it deleted a .5 hr, 1.5 hr, and a 4 hr show. Even a marginally smart algorithm would have figured out that the old 4 hr show must be a goner, and that is enough space for teh new 4 hr show, so then why delete the other two? But then, decent software would know that it has enough space and it would delete nothing to start with. This way I had 14 hrs, tried to record 4 more and ended up with 12, with my gas gauge happily showing 35%. Maybe the thing is fragmented and it has no way of dealing with it. I tried to make both tuners tune to non-bufferable channel and turned the box off, hoping that it would do the defrag, (I think I remember reading somewhere that something like that is used for defrag, but maybe with Passport or SARA). This apparently did not quite work - the box did the helpful 14 -> 12 thing after that.

That's cool,

Still have an SD set (with an HD DVR, cuz that is all he had when it was installed.) I am waiting for more channels to come out on TWC's high def tier before purchasing an HD set.

Sorry to the board for getting off topic. Now back to Navigator.

Jack

Guys,

Here are some screenshots of what I THINK is Passport's latest guide. TWC here in Wisconsin doesn't have some of the advanced games. (We have the Passtime card games, but no sound.) There seem to be more interactive services with this guide. I didn't read all the info so I don't know if an explanation or screenshot is there with Caller ID or not.

Why am I providing this link? To illustrate what could have been if TWC had stuck with Passport and gotten the updates for the boxes instead of going with Crapagator Navigator. I think that as far as TWC is concerned, sadly within 6 months to a year's time, these Passport screens will be a memory. But hopefully the Navigator bugs will be worked out by that time. Here is the link:

http://home.comcast.net/~cypherx3/

You know, that looks alot like the current version of SARA I'm running. It's alot more feature packed and some of the grapics look much nicer, but the actual guide looks very similar. I just skimmed through it quickly, but does this new version support SDV?

That's actually an old version - Passport Version 4.2 build 071. I'm running a box with 4.3 and that's year old.

What you are seeing there are features which TWC have chosen not to implement in some areas, such as the Quick Menu and Buzztime games, even though they have been available for some time. Passtime Games with PiP has been active here for a year or so (but surprise surprise isn't actually working at the moment ).

The real comparison to Navigator should be Passport Echo.
http://www.pioneerdigital.com/passpo...ssportecho.asp


SARA and Passport have a lot of interface similarities, Passport having a better looking skin. Navigator has to strike the balance of being similar but at the same time not actually stealing anything from either one. Which should be easier than it sounds, but isn't.


(edit: although saying that, I've only just noticed how similar Navigator is to Passport DCT for Moto boxes. I've never realized this until just now.)
http://www.pioneerdigital.com//passp...ssportdct.asp#

Continuing with the Passport comparison, this is from TW Raleigh:


* this page has been on the site since about April. I haven't seen any other "innovations."

** anyone know what they are? How is that different to any of the other search features in Passport or SARA?

*** Games and voting services have already been done using the current version of Passport in Raleigh. So it's already a step backwards.

**** Ready to go if TWC chose to use the Passport version.

Wish I could have saved a link but I did read that someone other than TiVo was talking about a 100 dollar dongle to be used w/a TiVo DVR that would implement whatever OCAP hardware is necessary AND allow the use of SDV. Now we see claims that TiVo is going to do it... so until any such product from anyone is actually available and known to work, it's seems it's all speculation at best.

As it relates to Tivo I would stick with what Tivo says. And ignore the self proclaimed experts and speculators. Here's Tivo's online customer service announcement.

From the Tivo site:


http://customersupport.tivo.com/Laun...1-754c3260112a

I don't see OCAP mentioned. Nor do I see On Demand, PPV etc. Just SDV. I'd limit ones expectations to simply SDV.

Not sure that I see this... how could a set of additional APIs negate such simple functions in the over arching software? And why would OCAP have been engineered to NOT allow such additional functionality?

My impression is that OCAP means that the whole application will be controlled by the cable company. But I could be wrong - that is why I was asking. I hope you are right and there and sub-modules that can be downloaded to just tell the box how to request SDV channels and how to request PPV...

xnappo

That's the impression I'm getting as well. I'm thinking that even if you buy an OCAP Samsung TV for example, when you switch it on you are still going to be seeing Navigator and functions TWC throws at you. Unless there is some element that allows the display device to take the information and render it in it's own software.


from the OCAP primer:

Applications, like a programming guide, an on-demand ordering system,
interactive local news and weather or whatever else, are above the
middleware. Operating systems (OS) are below it.

The job of the middleware is to translate what lies at the root level for
what sits above itso that, say, an interactive trigger from a programmer
doesn't need to know what version of OS a particular make of an HDTV set or
a cable set top is using.

So, for example, the middleware helps an interactive game to run on a cable
set-top box, or an interactive digital cable ready device, and interact
with a cable system, provided there's compatibility all around.

...

Technically speaking, ETV has three parts. First is a small chunk of
software called a user agent, which gets down- loaded into the digital
box. The job of the user agent is to watch for incoming ETV triggers. When
the triggers appear, the user agent runs them. The second part of the ETV
spec involves signaling methods used to get the interactive triggers from
their point of origination to the user agent. The third part is a standard
form for writing ETV applications, so that they can run on any box that's
loaded up with the user agent.

ETV In Practice
So, in practice, it works like this: A program network uses
the ETV form to create an application. The triggers for that application get
inserted into the digital TV bit stream (the MPEG-2 transport stream, in
tech lingo), using a thing called a stream generator. Stream generators
can be located at a content originator's facilities, or at a cable headend.

Meanwhile, the ETV-capable box gets loaded up with the user agent, and sits
there, waiting and listening. When a trigger slips in through that digital
bit stream, the user agent leaps into action to decode and display the
click- able content on somebody's cable TV screen.

Any opinions on what to do?

1) Buy a Tivo Series 3, keep TWC
2) Get Direct TV with HR20
3) Live with Navigator until its fixed.
4) Wait till Jan 08 and re-evaluate

I already tried begging, pleading, throwing fit (oh and being nice) to get my old Passport box back. I'm really in a mood to dump TWC to validate my threats (like they care) but all this stuff is in flux, I don't want to get stuck.

My boss has Direct TV with ATSC HD antenna, he's got best of all worlds it sounds like..but to duplicate I'd be looking at some serious dough to get it all wired.

I'd kind of like the local HD feeds over the air just to avoid compression faced with TWC and D*, both D* and Tivo would allow DVR functionality on antenna based content.

Truth Squad could you venture a guess when SARA systems will begin to see NAVIGATOR? SARA 1.89.17.1 Greensboro NC

Yea,

I have Passport Echo on my DVR. But it's an older version than what is shown in the pictures.

Jack

That's a tough call. At least options #3 and #4 won't allow you to spend more money. I don't know about mixing Tivo with Navigator! Do you have any All in One Packages? You don't want to lose the discounts if you do. Also, look at the packages that you would get with Dish and compare them to cable. Are there installation fees and things that they don't tell you about with Dish? Check out long-term contract issues. Buying a Tivo, getting Dish, and paying for installation can be expensive.

Do you have a lot of trees in your neighborhood? This can be a major issue with Dish as well. How bad has Navigator been for you? Is it a minor annoyance? Or is it so bad like, "I need Dish next week" kind of thing? Maybe waiting till the first of the year, if Navigator is just doing minor bad things might not be a bad idea. I think it should get better over that period of time.

On the other hand, if you have an area unobstructed by trees and have the money, you'll probably get more reliability from Dish, but there is often an upfront price to get it. It's not an easy choice.

Jack

I am about at threat level orange of "I need Dish next week". If my wife misses one of her shows, we could be at Defcon1 pretty quick.

I've got LOS to satlellites, within reason, money isn't really an object unless I get stuck with stuff that doesn't work. I just want best solution, least hassle.

Plus I'd really like to stick it to TWC, they ticked me off. I hate being extorted into continued patronage. Monopolies suck.

I'd suggest DirecTV, if you can. It certainly looks like they will be offering more HD content than TW. But then there are the TW bundles, so I can't say what is best economically for you.

The TiVo approach (as I've pointed out) does not currently work with SDV (one of the reasons TW is switching to Navigator) and is offering ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEES (the risk is yours) that they will have a SDV solution.

RE: Compression. There is an assumption that cable applies additional compression that is not there on OTA. That is often (usually) not the case - in fact, in many areas, the opposite may be true. If the cable head end receives their signal via fiber or microwave, the signal that they relay could well have less compression than OTA. Actually, there are FCC regulations against "material degradation" of a local OTA station. Now "material degradation" has not been defined yet, so there may some additional "grooming" on local OTA in some cases. It does vary from system to system, the "key" is how many HD stations per QAM. Two is the norm, and if they stick to that, then there is no grooming going on. But where there is 3, then that is done with additional compression. In Rochester, there are just 2 per QAM, but I understand that in Manhattan there are several cases where there are 3 per QAM. I seem to recall being told that on local stations that it is still 2 per QAM (but that could be wrong).

Yes, but most of the satellite deals being offered today require a 2-year commitment. Isn't that being "extorted into continued patronage"?

Does anyone know when the South Carolina region will get the Navigator software from TWC? Specifically Columbia or Charleston.

Ive been doing some back reading on this thread but didn't see any roll out schedule.

Thanks.