Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 26

I think this has been mentioned before, but Passport doesn't do SDV. I don't consider that a service though, it's a technology choice. TWC chose to go SDV so they could claim they had more bandwidth available for HD, and then they chose to throw money at an internal team to re-create something rather than just pay the vendor to upgrade Passport to support SDV.

No version of Passport may now do SDV (and I doubt that that's true), but that's a simple matter of programming. I doubt that SDV is even a part of the the IPG--it'd be piss-poor design to make it so. Intuitively, when an IPG is used to request a new channel, either be selecting a grid-line from the guide or by punching in numbers, a call would be made to middleware to actually change the tuning, and that's where SDV would be implemented.

1. It's supposed to provide a much better SEARCH capability for those
thousands and thousands of HD-VOD and VOD programs being "bundled"
with regular HD and SD channels.....can't have one without the other.....
BTW: The extra revenue should help to PAY for all these upgrades.....

2. It's designed to run under OCAP, which most all cable companies will be
required to provide to NEW customers starting 1 July....
And must also be downloadable into newly developed user owned
STB/DVR/HDTV's running OCAP with MCARD.

#1 might be "nice to have", whereas #2 is cable company's approach
for fulfilling mandatory "separable security" requirements....

You made a similar statement on 4/17, which I questioned your statement (and to which you did not reply). I've since done a fair amount of additional research and it is pretty clear that he FCC has NOT mandated anything yet in regards to OCAP. They have NOT mandated any particular solution. The "ultimate" solution is expected to be DCAS (Downloadable Conditional Access Security), but that will not be ready till sometime in 2008. In the meantime CableCards are the only present way to comply with this requirement.

With regards to that new Search feature for "Find Shows." Everyone that I know HATES the new keyboard search on Navigator's IPG. As a Passport user, I would have to agree that it is much quicker to do a Title Search (C Button) and than go to the letter you want, and power search ( Hold down,Page up or down +/-) to find your show.

The keyboard search may not be too bad for short titles, but if you are looking for long title names of shows, many have said that it takes too long to get to them by spelling them out.

Jack

Thumb it in like a cellphone???
Mini-QWERTY keyboard on next gen R/C???
Talk into the R/C for Voice Recognition by the STB???

Unfortunately, PASSPORT isn't very efficient at finding VOD/HD-VOD programs....
[that includes free OnDemand and PPV in TWC-speakeze...]

Gotta search through a couple dozen different "channels", each containing
a couple dozen different programs....blecht, my fingers/buttons are wearing out!!!!

Now try it with 8,000 or more programs on-line....some might prefer a
web-browser app on the STB.....or maybe a tablet R/C....

Semantics again.....
They are required to do SOMETHING to meet the separable security mandate....

OCAP/MCARD is what CEA/NCTA/CableLabs came up with and which
most cable companies agreed they would implement by the 1 July date for
NEW deployments and work with new OCAP compatible user owned equipment.....

Fifty-seven hundred channels and nothing on, says the Boss. If you're randomly searching for a movie to watch - to the point where you need to see a clip to klnow if you want to buy it, I have suggestions: Go read a book, look at a tree, talk to a friend or, even more novel, your spouse. There are many more sources of enlightenment and stimulation than Tee Vee.

I'm afraid that it is not a case of semantics. OCAP still has no security function. CableCard equipped STBs meet the FCC mandate - OCAP or no OCAP!

Saying that the FCC Mandate for July 1, 2007 is THE reason that TW came up with Navigator is out and out BS! Any inference that the FCC has anything to do with Navigator only helps to justify TW's gross mismanagement of software development.

Youre right about # 2. Passport only has trailers for VOD movies. But I believe that's a choice made available by the cable company - we only got them after my division became Comcast.

But jumping forward in the VOD show - I use the right or left arrow keys. Takes 10 min increments forward or back.

We still need more free HDTV programming
LOL

I am confused, does the NAVIGATOR Title Search only return hits after the entire correct title is entered? I had TWC-KC PASSPORT and got Title [with keyboard/letter] search with 1.8.___ -- I left right before 2.___. Best Practices was to get the first two/three letters and then scroll through the hugely reduced list... you then get the best of both without typing in an entire title.

The big deal in searches to me was the inclusion of all days in the guide in one search. SARA in El Paso does not do this. I have to search each day separately, starting over at the beginning of the first letter list. Even if letter/scroll is faster than [typing entire title] that is just painful to do six days in a row looking for a repeat of a show in conflict.

v/r,
C-F

Yes, it is very painful and virtually useless. Thats why many of us use alternate internet sources like TitanTV, Excite, etc., many of which have 14 day guides. Even this is a hassle if one has to get up and go to the computer "room", but who doesn't have a wireless notebook these days.

Agree 100% Dave. From my first readings about what OCAP is all about, it's 100% the instigation of the cable companies. It's all about a common platform for additional services. i.e. it's all about a way to sell us more things. My guess is that it's the "common platform" part. Services don't have to be engineered for Passport, SARA, Navigator or their various sub versions.

Cue Maria Batiromo:

"It's all about money."

Thanks, But to be fair the concept of OCAP appears to have the same origin as the "Integration Ban": the desire (expressed by Congress in the early 90's) to enable customer owned equipment to access cable content. That is what lead to CableCards, DCAS, etc. But the problem, has been that cable has migrated to interactive systems and these security mandates have not addressed that. OCAP is the cable industry response to that goal of integration of customer owned equipment. Cable has also discovered that this technology also opens new avenues of revenue (gaming on the STB, etc.) and is, as I write this, actively promoting this "new platform" to applications providers.

The "Integration Ban" and DCAS have become confused with this, because DCAS will apparently be depending on the roll-out of OCAP as a vehicle.

I also wonder that, in the long run, how much cable really wants to be in the STB "rental" business. If a DVR costs them $350-$400, do they make much money renting (and maintaining it) at $10/month? Perhaps the primary reason that they are in the STB business is that it is the only way that they can assure that they can roll out new technology. Right now, that is things like SDV, VOD, etc. but tomorrow it may be advanced compression (beyond MPEG-4 {and right now, our STBs are only MPEG-2}).

Riverside_Guy & davehancock: Thanks for the informative exchange!

Thanks, but you already got me there, I was just being lazy. I remembered your comments about this and the VCR vs. TIVO perspectives from before (during the [great debates]) and had prepped the wife. (I knew I would eventually end up in a SARA-town sometime).

During the 9 month RV detour without cable or internet, she decided she likes the TV Guide magazine, so that is her current solution (and I get the scratch & sniff Earl cards). I do not get enough time to watch TV here to have more than 2-3 shows to schedule. Not enough to bother learning beyond the basics of the SARA [TTP/ Best Practices], but I printed out the thread for her.

v/r,
C-F

For anyone following the Lincoln, NE Navigator fiasco, here's the latest developments with the City Council's Cable TV Advisory Board:

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/...9900400501.txt

Dave,

Have you read this:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-257519A1.pdf

It sounds to me like to does tie together Navigator and the security issue to some degree.

xnappo

Xnappo, Thanks. Yes, I'm familiar with the document. Other than some actions regarding waivers (mostly turned down), this is the most recent ruling from the FCC on the subject.

Note that this document does not mention OCAP, or tie to Navigator in any way.

The mandate really relates just to security - not to bi-directional operation and integration of navigational functions.

While, in the long term, TW apparently plans on meeting this mandate by deploying a fully developed software solution, Navigator is not the mandated solution that TW would have you believe it is(trying to shift the blame to the government - which seems to be such a popular thing to do these days).

Dave, do you think there's ANYONE in a serious management capacity at TWC that has Clue One what a "fully developed software solution" actually is?

NO - Of course not (as they have totally demonstrated). But, they must now realize that they have a significant problem and that they will have an ever bigger problem IF they continue on this road in larger cities. One indication is that they apparently (and wisely) have been slow to roll it out on DVRs.

Two morales of the story:

1.) Newer isn't always better, and is often demonstrated to be much worse.

2.) Passport is a fine product. Don't fix what isn't broken.

It's like that software developer said at the first TWC Lincoln Nebraska meeting to paraphrase. TWC had a vision, they got too far ahead of that vision, didn't have fully developed technology (in Navigator) to meet that vision and got stuck with a buggy product because the higher ups got too "New and Cool" happy without testing in the labs, than finding and fixing all of the bugs first.

Jack

PS. Thank God for Passport software and my Pioneer box!

You know, I've been reading through this post with great interest because I have an SA8300HD with SARA. I've expressed numerous concerns to Time Warner over how bad the current guide system is when compared to Dish or DirecTV. I read TWCs website and alot of the enhancement sound great, like exactly what I'm waiting for. However, it seems this has been a disastrous undertaking. Why don't they bite the bullet and contract it out to a firm who specializes in this type of software or better yet, work with Tivo to integrate it into its DVR boxes.

Regarding program data, I doubt with the cable companies nor TiVo actually amass it, I suspect they buy the data from TV Guide. My guess would be that the reason TiVo has 14 days and TW/Comcast 6 is the limitations of the current generation of cable STBs.

From long before I even HAD a DVR, I thought TiVo's best move was to license their software to the cable guys. Probably 2 issues scuttled that, issues with the hardware the cable guys has deployed and probably TiVo wanting too much money.

Still I am aghast that there are many folks who opt for the TiVo III series, I don't think the actually differences between what you get from the cable guys is worth the huge incremental cost.

I agree. I mean, the SARA software in my DVR works. The issue is the added functionality that is missing. Simple things like a better search via on screen keyboard and guide customization along with a better GUI. I really wish they would get away from the asinine A,B,C configuration and just use the standard select and arrow keys.

For any cable engineers or techs out there who remember the launch of Passport around 2000-2001, do you recall Passport having similar problems when it first came out, and if so, how long did it take to stabilize the Passport software?

Jack

This also touches on branding. Every time "Tivo" or "TV Guide" appears in front of a TWC, Comcast, etc, customer, the awareness of that brand increases. Not necessarily at the expense of the cable provider because they don't compete in that space. But TWC has decided to do so and use that as a way of increasing it's brand awareness.

I am sooo glad to be a Comcast customer.

You must be crazy (unless it is the fear of Navigator): Comcast customer service REALLY SUCKS. Two of our kids have Comcast (Montgomery County, MD and Atlanta, GA) and both have had significant problems with Comcast getting them to fix basic things.

I'm soooooooo glad to NOT be a Comcast customer.

Well, I've never been diagnosed.

I've never had to use Comcast customer service, so from my perspective everything is peachy. And I will not be Navigatored!