Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 261

It still is with ODN 3 on the RF channel 4 output. I have a 4250HDC on my bedroom SDTV. I was looking forward to making my on HD center cuts on the local channels(as some, especially WOIO look like crap). But no, it's forced into letterbox. BOO! On the bright side, this is something TWC didn't do wrong, for once. When I had Passport on the 8300HD, I tried recording shows to tape off the HD channels. Big mistake. They were all forced into letterbox with GRAY bars!! Passport used to use gray sidebars. I think it is some error on SA's boxes. I remember reading that Component and HDMI cannot be used simultaneously. Only the HD outputs can be controlled with the aspect settings and there can be only one output at a time.

I could not agree more! All Pioneer boxes should be swapped and replaced with newer converter models. If anyone at TWC moderates this forum, please consider this! I heard some divisions were still GIVING OUT OLD PIONEER BOXES! (I think this was a case in Kansas City.) The Pioneer units are much too outdated to handle the new Navigator software. Pioneer boxes should no longer be distributed in ANY division.

Jack

I had actually did that and watched a recorded primetime program off WFMJHD (believe it was L&O:SVU) and watched it via S-Video on my bedroom tv. Just because of the nature of the thing where the compression artifacts on HD programs are going to be pretty much unnoticable on an SD set in addition to HD pictures having a wider color gamut, the picture quality was ASTOUNDING compared to watching the same program, still letterboxed, but from the digital SD channel.

Thankfully Time Warner doesn't charge extra for the standard HD channels nor for HD vs SD boxes. If it ever came to the point of being able to afford and extra box for my bedroom, I'd just lie and say it's an HD set to get an HD box.

I remember the days when a HD DVR had a substabntially larger HDD. I recall friends getting phony receipts together to "convince" TWC they needed a HD box (at the time, one needed to "prove" one had a HD display to get a HD box). Gradually, it seemed to be that all you had to do was go to the TWC store and swap out your old box, no questions asked.

You don't even have to lie... in both Charlotte and Greensboro I know many folks who got HD boxes that never asked for them. When I ordered service for my daughters apartment in Greensboro, I absent-mindedly answered NO to the "do you have an HDTV" question (I had intended to say yes just to get an HD box), but they still showed up with an 8300HDC anyway (running SARA... ugh).

Almost three years ago... right after TW started advertising "free HD" and charging same prices for SD vs HD box rentals... I just walked into the TW office and said I needed an HD box. No questions asked. Handed me a Pioneer Voyager HD. Worked great on my Panasonic 32" SD CRT... the letterboxed HD channels looked SOOOOOOOO much better than the SD channels. The letterboxing never bothered me in the slightest.... all of my DVD collection, built mostly while having only 4:3 TVs, is widescreen and we watched them letterboxed for years.

Also, it would appear from what I have seen that TW stopped buying new SD boxes some time ago.

The Pioneer Voyager HD box (non-DVR) I had was a dream to use... right up till the time they loaded Mystro onto it. Then it became a clunky POS. Decent box in its day, but its day has long passed.

It's non-functional with the S-Video out as well. I just dumped an HD movie I had recorded for my daughter with the Samsung 3090 to my Panasonic DVR to burn a DVD of it.... letterboxed was the only output available for HD content played on the SD outputs. Not an issue to us as that would have been my choice anyway, had I had one.

I think I had mentioned early last week that I ran into a problem where Navigator would crash on the Sammie, but the box would keep working with its (very limited) native GUI. When that happened, it took three reboots before Navigator loaded again. Well, same thing happened this weekend, except no amount of reboots, whether by pulling power or using the reboot function in the diagnostic screen, would get Navigator to load again. Box would just hang at the OCAP display... which is just before where the Mystro load countdown would usually start. After a few minutes the box would work under its native OS, but no vestige of ODN was present.

Eventually, I decided I had nothing to lose and I used the "Reset to Factory Defaults" in the password protected page of the Sammy's internal diagnostics. After resetting, the box rebooted and proceeded to load a fresh copy of ODN from from the headend... once it reloaded the box booted completely normally.

Had to re-enable the AC3 over HDMI option (which means the curious choice of disabling AC3 over HDMI is a Samsung choice) and lost my favorites, but everything else was intact, including recordings and schedules. Nice to know we have a safe means to force an OS reload.

One other interesting side effect of the factory reset is that the EDID information displayed in the 3090's HDMI diagnostics now accurately reflects the capabilities of the Onkyo 876 receiver it is connected to. Before it showed like 21 supported video modes (many seemingly identical entries repeated) and the supported audio modes were there but forced off the bottom of the screen. Seems like a bunch of junk information was cleared out.

That's what I kinda figured. I know when we got our HD set last year and swapped our SA8000 in for an SA8300HDC, all we has to do was walk in and say we wanted to swap for an HD box and I don't think they even had to pull account info. Just brought up a sealed SA cardboard box with all the material and scanned both the serial numbers on both boxes and away we went.

Now lets see if they can actually do something smart and, once they know everyone has HD capable boxes (PLEASE people. Do not hold them up on this. Let's get cracking on getting every joe-sumer with SD sets on HD boxes.), drop all the SD equivalents of their HD channels and even do something like DirecTV or Dish where the SD channels are essentially aliased to the HD versions. The bandwidth savings won't be substantial, but it'd be a help in either case.


Oh No doubt. I had the SD version ages ago when they still had Pasport running on it. Thing ran like a dream and was flawless. Though I've never had the ability to use one with MDN loaded. From what I have heard though it's REAL nasty.

I have exhcanged my Samsung SMT-H3090 box for another identical model. It recorded as it was supposed to on Sunday. I'll give it a week or so and see how it performs. My fingers are crossed that it works much better. I'm hoping I just had a box that had some flaky hardware.

I can also confirm that this has remidied my problem of outputting DD/AC3 sound to my Onkyo A/V reciever over digital coaxial with the audio mode of the Samsung cable box set to "HDMI".

I did notice though that the volume level being ouput from the cable box to my LG TV over the HDMI cable has decreased in decibel level, but is obviously compensated for by turning the TV up louder, which is not a big deal. I guess the AC3 signal sent over HDMI is not as amplified as whatever type of audio was sent over the cable prior to changing this setting.

This allows me to leave the audio output of the Samsung cable box to "HDMI" and still be able to pass DD sound to my A/V receiver when desired without having to change audio output settings in the cable box's setting menu.

Glad to hear that! At least one of the presumed "issues" with the Sammie is solved, then.

As noted above I did a factory reset this weekend that forced a reload of ODN as well. Tonight is my biggest recording night... we'll see how things go.

Actually, you can... or at least I can squeeze it back to AOR.

I can put either my TV (Samsung A550 LCD) or my receiver (Onkyo 876) in 4:3 output mode with a stretched 4:3 input and get OAR on the screen. This works perfectly well for History and Bio, which linearly stretch 4:3 out to 16:9, so the stretch process is perfectly reversible. It's less successful for TNT/TBS, since they use a non-linear stretch and the center of the screen looks a bit squished when squeezed back down to 4:3.

No, let's not drop the SD channels. Instead, let's drop the SD ANALOG CHANNELS. SD digital versions of TBS, History, A&E are not using much bandwidth at all. The ANALOG versions of those channels are the ones wasting the most bandwidth.

Plus, I would NEVER take one of those "HD channels only" packages. I want my SD channels too. I want the option to watch TBS SD, since all of their SD programming is trashed.

*And don't say "you can use the AR settings on your TV", because you can't. What I've noticed on TNT, TBS, FOOD, HGTV, History is they NON LINEAR stretch 4:3 programming, where the edges are more stretched than the center. That kind of damage cannot be undone(and produce a decent end product) by manipulating TV settings. I've tried, and failed.

Just a note, but in our division it has become VERY common for TWC to give out HD boxes to customers who only have SD sets. I've done two myself for people I know that upgraded to DVR service. I went and was told they didn't have any SD DVR's and was given an HD model instead.

When I got my first HD box back in 2006, the TWC store told me I needed a "service call" to install the box. And "we don't have HD boxes here". Funny thing was after my service call, where the guy brought the wrong box, I took it back to the TWC store, and they swapped it for a DVR!! They had them all along!! Maybe they think I don't look like someone who would have a HDTV set?

TNT and TBS... no doubt on the non-linear stretch, which is what I stated previously. On History and Bio, however, I have seen nothing but linear stretch that goes back to AOR flawlessly. Not much experience with Food or HGTV programming. What little I have watched has always been real 16:9.

BTW... anybody notice that a good bit of Discovery Networks HD programming (on Discovery, Science, TLC, etc) has very narrow side bars... looks like pillarboxed 16:10 or something along those lines.

It's the same here in Milwaukee Wisconsin. Although we have an HD set now, at the time we got the "All The Best Package" we got a 1-year free DVR upgrade. When the tech came, he just gave us a HD-DVR, even though we only had an SD set. Get an HD box, even if you only have an SD set. Than if or when you upgrade to an HD set, you won't have to exchange the box. Just make sure you get the proper cable hookup for HD TV's. HDMI cable is the best quality, followed by Component Cable. Not sure about S-Video cable, but I know that Coax Cable will not work on an HD set.

Jack

TWC even gives you the component video cables when you get a HD box. Just put the package away somewhere under your TV to pull out when you get a new HDTV.

I wonder how many people will be SOL once they go HD if they don't keep the component cables?

(which I guess is OK, since some people think they are watching "HD" with just a SVideo or RF cable connected)

HDMI and Component will provide virtually the same PQ. It is common for HDMI to get the nod because it's digital, but with so many HDMI issues with TWC I have been using component cables. HDMI is a greta idea that was poorly implemented with HDCP. Take away HDCP and the handshake issues go away. I've yet to get a TWC box to properly switch resolutions when run through an AVR (in my division anyway). I'm not sure if it's a SARA issue or a hardware issue. What's the consensus among Navigator users?

I've never had the slightest issue with HDMI resolution switching or handshaking with ODN 3.1.x on either the 8300HDC or the SMT-H3090, and I leave all the output resolutions turned on so its happening all the time.

terrible!!!

I briefly had HDMI in the earlier days of Passport Echo. At that time, I don't think there was a way to "disable" resolutions, so it would constantly change whenever I changed the channels. Plus I hate the way 480i looks and it seemed like something was wrong(as the picture flashed and channel changing was delayed). Later I learned that was 'normal' for resolution changes. I decided I'm not putting up with that ****. Plus HDMI is another useless feature(for TWC) like eSATA(as the TWC tech didn't even know what HDMI was---in 2006).

AFAIK, the supplied cables are good enough. The new ones I got from SA included with my 8240HDC are gold plated connectors. Which I believe is a big selling point with the "rip-off' Monster cables you see at big box stores(and they try to force you to buy).

You mean its NOT????

BTW... Samsung 3090 does not even have an RF output. (But the "devices" setting page, in the box's native GUI, has an RF bypass setting, so maybe some incarnations of the 3090 may have it.)

Good to know. What AVR are you using? I'm an Onkyo fan, but I have had issues with my 640 and now my 806. I'm guessing it's something to do with the SARA software. However, when the unit is run directly into a TV it switches without issue, so I'm thinking there is an HDCP handshake issue happening somewhere. The 806 even has an HDMI repeater in it. I could switch the box to fixed 1080i, but I'd rather have the HQV chip in my 6500 do the scaling. If we EVER get Navigator, then I'll know.

It's horrifying to me, but it's OK for them. Since so many people are idiots, I wouldn't expect them to use the right cables.

The funny thing is a found a SA crate on the sidewalk outside the TWC store. I think the crate had the instruction manuals, power cord and component video cables in the box. Some idiot ripped the box out of the crate and ditched it on the sidewalk. See, that's who was talking about when I said it would be "OK to use just the RF".

When we got our HD set, the clown who delivered it just hooked up the old Coax Cables to it, and I was like, WTF? A relative of mine who is an electronics engineer came out with new HDMI cables and hooked it up properly. We also found that the best picture quality came through by leaving the box at 1080 res all the time. He had both of his boxes set to Auto Select and didn't like the pausing between channels. Now both of us have 1080 resolution enabled all the time and the channel changing response is much faster.

However, I have gotten different stories from different people that this depends on the make and model of your TV, the make and model of your box, and even picture quality at the head end. Some HD sets I learned only display in 720 res, so if you try to go higher, you may get a "Video Not Supported" message from your box or TV. I have MDN Navigator on an SA-8300 box.

Jack

I was originally set up HDMI direct to Samsung TV and had no issues. About 1 sec channel change delay which was all on the TV side.

I recently upgraded my non-HDMI Onkyo TX-NR801 to a TX-SR876 and now have HDMI running through the receiver. No issues with this configuration, either (note... I never had the 8300HDC and the 876 together... only the Samsung with the 876). Whatever delays I do see are entirely due to the receiver and/or TV lockup times. The box switches instantly and reliably. The 876's Reon scaler does a nice job but it is a tad slow on the changes, but thats on the receiver, not the box.

My son (on TWC Raleigh) has a TX-SR806 hooked between an 8300HDC and a 52" Sharp D64 and has no HDMI issues either. He has all resolutions turned on at the box and the receiver in through mode, as the 806 has the "lesser" Faroudja video processing as opposed to the 876's Reon HQV and he prefers the PQ when the Sharp handles all the scaling.

Same thing happened to us. when we ordered TWC we told them we had two hd sets...when the tech came and hooked it up, he used an s-video chord that we had in the house...He should be glad i wasn't home at the time of the install...I would have told that tech about himself!!!