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Time Warner Cable Navigator - Page 30

post #871 of 18143
6/6/07 at 3:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazywoody View Post

A friendof mine said a source he has at out local TWC office is that Navigator is to have a national launch in July or August.

Just a wild guess, but I have a thought that the announcement will probably be right after their "Home to the Future" tour. (If you have Shockwave Flash installed, go to http://hometothefuture.com/ , click the "Skip" at the bottom of the page to skip the boring intro, and click the "Track the Tour" button. Warning: don't click "Honk The Horn" unless you're in the privacy of your own home!)

Why do I think this? Partly because there's a clear link in a Samsung press release about the tour:
http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/P...119_0000313783

(Second paragraph contains a phrase very similar to the title of the TWC press release at

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/print...575877,00.html

and third paragraph refers to the Navigator; interesting that the TWC press release doesn't say anything about the Navigator.)

Also if you look at the tour itinerary, it goes through several cities that have come to my attention while looking at the history of the Navigator, not just Kansas City and Milwaukee, but early on I'd found references to the Navigator on TWC sites from Desert Cities and San Diego, as well as Raleigh/Durham/Fayetteville which admittedly isn't Charlotte but can't be that far away. No clue as to whether these other three places have any subscribers that actually use the Navigator (and our Lincoln TWC people never mention any cities but KC and Milwaukee) but it doesn't really make sense to me that the TWC sites in those places would feature information about the Navigator unless there were some subscribers.

And if TWC were going to announce a "hot" new product nationwide, what better way to do it than to take a tour of the country, showing off the stuff in a very controlled environment, maybe collect e-mail addresses of people who want to be kept in the loop about where they can get more information, then hit 'em with a followup e-mail at the end of the tour where they can sign up and get two or three free months of digital service with this hot new Navigator product.

Oh, and one other thing - if I were doing such a tour, I'd be sure and skip Lincoln, because those rowdy folks there don't always stand in line and salute when TWC passes by.

I admit to being something of a conspiracy theory buff, guess we'll see what happens at tour's end later this summer.
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post #872 of 18143
6/6/07 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattInLincoln View Post

I just scrolled through the 28 diagnostic pages and didn't see anything that says esata. If you tell me what to look for, I'd be happy to help you.

I'm not sure that you will see anything that you can identify with the ability to handle an external drive. Earlier versions of SARA (where the capability showed up in the first place) did not, and the current version does not, explicitly state that the external drive is enabled (the current version does show the size of an attached drive - earlier versions did not do that, they simply included the drive in the total HD capability.

So, there probably are no clues if the external drive WILL work, in the Navigator diagnostics.
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post #873 of 18143
6/6/07 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattInLincoln View Post

I'll take another look tomorrow just to be sure I didn't overlook it. I seem to recall seeing an entry for SATA drives when we had Passport, but I've been unable to locate a similar listing in Navigator. Perhaps someone else with Navigator can look too in case I'm missing it.

FYI - on SARA there is nothing about eSATA, but there is a page with the attached drives listed, one column for primary and one for secondary.

I know this would be a pain... But if you are up for it photos of the Navigator diags pages would be greatly appreciated!

xnappo
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post #874 of 18143
6/6/07 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

I'm not sure that you will see anything that you can identify with the ability to handle an external drive. Earlier versions of SARA (where the capability showed up in the first place) did not, and the current version does not, explicitly state that the external drive is enabled (the current version does show the size of an attached drive - earlier versions did not do that, they simply included the drive in the total HD capability.

So, there probably are no clues if the external drive WILL work, in the Navigator diagnostics.

I suspect that the diagnostics being clear about an external drive is a Passport thing. We saw no indication in the previous software release, then with the last release, we got clear indication it was (which mostly means it may work with some drives but not others) enabled.

I could swear someone w/Navigator said they HAD used an external drive. We HAVE seen TWC execs actually say their intention is to have it enabled in Navigator (which means not that much).

Still, as with almost ALL TWC things, the ONLY way to know is for someone to try to use one. As a Passporter, I'm mostly interested in the elimination of the famous trick play bug.
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post #875 of 18143
6/6/07 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

I could swear someone w/Navigator said they HAD used an external drive.

Me too, but given this forum's lousy search function, the only way is to go through the entire External Drive Thread.
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post #876 of 18143
6/6/07 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Me too, but given this forum's lousy search function, the only way is to go through the entire External Drive Thread.

Yep... Here is the post saying it doesn't work at all:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10057800

And one that has it working:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9279739

xnappo
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post #877 of 18143
6/6/07 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Me too, but given this forum's lousy search function, the only way is to go through the entire External Drive Thread.

This forum's search function is not very useful. It doesn't find long words. I haven't figured out how many letters that is. Some example words it doesn't find are "Associated" or "different". To work around this problem, I use Google with keyword site:www.avsforum.com and include enough of the thread name in quotes to make it unique and the words I want it to search for. The Google results show the page the post is in so I use the browser find function to find the correct post. This is a pain but it is better than reading the entire thread.
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post #878 of 18143
6/6/07 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Thanks to the BEST Search Function: XNAPPO

Thanks - but I cheated as I had posted that message before, and so could include xnappo in my google search. Google searches AVS much better than AVS searches AVS!
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post #879 of 18143
6/9/07 at 9:38am
Can anyone confirm if Navigator fixes any recording time issues? It seems that my SARA enabled DVR constantly cuts off the end of shows and it gets quite annoying! Why can't Time Warner add a "buffer" of say 2-3 minutes to each show. It could be a user selectable menu item. The user could set the buffer time and what recordings to use it on. For example, I record The Factor every night and don't need a buffer for that because it ends on time or cuts right after the Email segment. However, some series type shows have a habit of cutting before the previews and some others cut quite a bit off the end. Hogan Knows Best is notorious for starting late and ending early. I understand alot of this has to do with the times in the guide data, but a buffer would ensure the user not miss anything. The work around Time Warner gave me was to set a manual recording and specify time each and every week which almost defeats the convenience of having the DVR to begin with. Anyone else think this might be a cool feature to have?
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post #880 of 18143
6/9/07 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Can anyone confirm if Navigator fixes any recording time issues? It seems that my SARA enabled DVR constantly cuts off the end of shows and it gets quite annoying! Why can't Time Warner add a "buffer" of say 2-3 minutes to each show. It could be a user selectable menu item. The user could set the buffer time and what recordings to use it on. For example, I record The Factor every night and don't need a buffer for that because it ends on time or cuts right after the Email segment. However, some series type shows have a habit of cutting before the previews and some others cut quite a bit off the end. Hogan Knows Best is notorious for starting late and ending early. I understand alot of this has to do with the times in the guide data, but a buffer would ensure the user not miss anything. The work around Time Warner gave me was to set a manual recording and specify time each and every week which almost defeats the convenience of having the DVR to begin with. Anyone else think this might be a cool feature to have?

You can set it to record a given show an extra minute (or other increments) in the recording options for each show. Navigator is pretty much the same as Passport on that. I have had to use it on a few shows that continually would cut off too soon. As long as there isn't a recording conflict with some other shows it comes in handy.

One thing Navigator has that I don't remember Passport having (or at least not the last version we had) is that you can also schedule a show to end early. That also comes in handy with some shows that like to schedule themselves to 1 minute past the hour when there is nothing but commercials for the last 3 minutes or so. Scrubs is an example that type of show that I used this to end it early so I could record two other shows at the top of the hour.

This goes both ways for both the beginning and endings of the shows that you can adjust.
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post #881 of 18143
6/10/07 at 4:16am
Well, I believe with the right help that Time Warner should be able to get this working properly. I think the GUI is in need of an overhaul, but not at the expense of functionality. I guess time will tell. Thanks for the reply.
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post #882 of 18143
6/10/07 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Well, I believe with the right help that Time Warner should be able to get this working properly. I think the GUI is in need of an overhaul, but not at the expense of functionality. I guess time will tell. Thanks for the reply.

SARA lets you alter the start/end times, but the changes won't stick for weekly or less frequent recordings, you have to alter them each week. Also, depending on which version (1.88 or 1.89) you are using, you may have to cancel scheduled recordings and reschedule them with the altered times for them to stick. Some folks have sceduled recordings for the program before or after to catch all of the program, but this only works if you are not recording something else on another channel at the same time. This is covered in the first post of the SARA Tips thread.

And, it is strictly based on the IPG data, which is all a DVR has available to tell it when to start/end. Most times it's because the local station/cablenet has chosen to start/end slightly off schedule. Sometimes it's because the IPG is incorrect. Unfortunately, there is nothing the cableco can do to change things. Sometimes contacting the local station to let them know there is a problem can get it resolved. I see this a lot on A&E, my Driving Force recording always ended a minute or so before the program actually ended, and programs like Overhaulin' on other cablenets.
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post #883 of 18143
6/11/07 at 9:03am
Dave, Passport seems able to deal with it... I have a series recording set to start 10 minutes early and end an hour past. Works like a charm (had to, it was the new HD edition of Star Trek TOS around 2 AM Monday, given football, it's actual start varied all over the lot.

We in NYC are having major HD channel number shuffling going on later this week (a "good" thing as all HD channels will be the SD channel # with a leading 7), going to be interesting to see of my 10,000 series recordings adjust themselves automatically!
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post #884 of 18143
6/11/07 at 10:03am
R_G,

I only mentioned SARA because that is what Ben said he was using and there are users of both in this thread. I had no doubt Passport allowed the same thing.

Let us know if the restructuring makes you reschedule your 10,000 recordings. I suspect it might and that will be a bummer since so many are in reruns now or not even on.
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post #885 of 18143
6/16/07 at 3:29pm
Have any new features been added to NAVIGATOR since the last update?With the July launch drawing near wonder if it has gotton any more stable.With a bunch of ex PASSPORT software experts now driveing NAVIGATOR improvements we can hope.Anyone with NAVIGATOR with any information please let us know.
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post #886 of 18143
6/17/07 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazywoody View Post

Have any new features been added to NAVIGATOR since the last update?With the July launch drawing near wonder if it has gotton any more stable.With a bunch of ex PASSPORT software experts now driveing NAVIGATOR improvements we can hope.Anyone with NAVIGATOR with any information please let us know.

There haven't been any updates here in Lincoln since late May.
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post #887 of 18143
6/17/07 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazywoody View Post

With the July launch drawing near wonder if it has gotton any more stable.

Launch date of what? The only thing that happens in July is that cable companies must (mostly) stop deploying NEW cable boxes with integrated security (in other words, they must start using boxes with cable cards).
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post #888 of 18143
6/17/07 at 9:04am
Dave,

I think folks are tuned into a post by CrazyWoody back on June 5 stating:
Quote:


As i stated a very good friend of mine has a relative working at Time Warner.Am not sure how accurate source is but has been very accuate in the past.Understand rest of passport users get Navigator in July then Sara rollout starts in August.As a side note I understand several ex passport employees have been hired andthey are the ones fixingNavigator.Just a heads up on news i have heard.

I seriously doubt this is going to happen, but I guess with TWC one never knows until after the fact.
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post #889 of 18143
6/17/07 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

Dave,

I think folks are tuned into a post by CrazyWoody back on June 5 stating:
I seriously doubt this is going to happen, but I guess with TWC one never knows until after the fact.

Thanks for pointing that out. I now do recall that statement - or rather, rumor. There is an awful lot of confusion over just what the FCC requires as of July 1. And TW has taken advantage of that to provide an excuse for their dismal performance regarding Navigator.

I've observed that in many areas that TW personnel are some of the poorest informed people in industry (seems like corporate really likes to grow mushrooms ).
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post #890 of 18143
6/17/07 at 12:06pm
FWIW, TWC-San Diego is playing adverts, showing new screens for NAVIGATOR...
sounding as if it's already deployed....they also refer to website for more info....

However, I don't see it on either SA8300HD or SA3250HD (running OCAP since Feb).

================================
Refer back to discussion re "common reliance"....aka "sharing the pain of debugging OCAP":
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...e#post10326245
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...e#post10736100

On 1July cable companies are supposed to support retail OCAP/MCARD implementations....
including "sharing the pain of debugging OCAP" with their OWN customers.....

Ideally, they would "share the pain" with an equal number of new retail
OCAP HDTV/DVR/STB customers, thereby restraining the number of affected users.

But, since NAVIGATOR is needed to search a much, much larger inventory of
OnDemand/PPV offerings and related SDV/VOD upgrades are needed for VOD
and more HD (plus other bells and whistles), we all can expect to be upgraded....
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post #891 of 18143
6/17/07 at 12:39pm
HBO/CINEMAX plans to broadcast all 26 channels in HD, beginning this September:
http://www.tvpredictions.com/twhbo061607.htm
TWC spokesman said that they plan to carry them in HD, with some of the
content available via HD OnDemand (only?).

This is only the tip of the iceberg for a greatly expanded HD OnDemand service....thanks to SDV.
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post #892 of 18143
6/17/07 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

On 1July cable companies are supposed to support retail OCAP/MCARD implementations....
including "sharing the pain of debugging OCAP" with their OWN customers.....

I again challange you to provide a link to ANY FCC order that says anything about cable companies having to support retail OCAP/MCARD implementations on July 1, 2007, or any other specific date! They have not, to my knowledge! Yes there are lots of different proposals, broad objectives, sweeping statements, objections, comments, rebuttals, etc. - BUT NO REQUIREMENTS, other than to STOP deploying new STBs with integrated security!

How cable companies plan to deal with this mandate is another matter - but it is simply not accurate to state or imply that there has been any July 1 FCC mandate involving additional support of customer owned equipment, OCAP or any other specific solution!
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post #893 of 18143
6/17/07 at 4:22pm
Dave isn't it boxes without integrated security? (forgot to quote you!)

I guess the box will somehow provide the 2 way... but aren't there supposed to be new multi-stream cards that CAN "authorize" two tuners in the box itself?

I tell you, few are really paying attention to this, for some reason my sixth sense is sounding the klaxon. Big time.
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post #894 of 18143
6/17/07 at 4:32pm
Like I stated I am reporting only what I was told.We will see come July and August if my source was correct.However I will state that this source also told me that Navigator was to receive select deployment when this fiasco began.The source was correct on that one.I just reported it because TWC is officially giveing us no info.This leaves us to gleem information from sources and rumors.Anyone who has any more info I would be glad to hear.As a side note since i posted my source has become very closed mouth so do not know if TWC has clamped down on Navigator info.
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post #895 of 18143
6/17/07 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

... it is simply not accurate to state or imply that there has been any July 1 FCC mandate involving additional support of customer owned equipment, OCAP or any other specific solution!

At this point I'm actually looking forward to July 1st rolling around, because Lincoln's TWC people appear to have bought into the story that the FCC mandate for severable security is somehow going to force a nationwide rollout of the Navigator on the deadline date.

If July 2nd dawns and if there are markets out there (as I suspect there will be) that haven't yet been "Navigatored," I'd be interested in seeing a few posts to that effect, so I can pass that information on to the people who've been indicating otherwise to me.

(Of course, if the Navigator somehow does take hold everywhere by 07/01/07, I'll "forget" to bring up the subject with the aforementioned people.)
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post #896 of 18143
6/17/07 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Dave isn't it boxes without integrated security? (forgot to quote you!)

I said:
Quote:


other than to STOP deploying new STBs with integrated security!

I think that's correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

I guess the box will somehow provide the 2 way... but aren't there supposed to be new multi-stream cards that CAN "authorize" two tuners in the box itself?

Yes, the new (8300HDC) cable boxes with CableCards take the M-Series cards. But, all that buys right now is using ONE CableCard, instead of two. Ultimately, these cards may have broader uses - once OCAP is fully deployed - but that AIN'T 7/1/07!
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post #897 of 18143
6/17/07 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog1975 View Post

At this point I'm actually looking forward to July 1st rolling around, because Lincoln's TWC people appear to have bought into the story that the FCC mandate for severable security is somehow going to force a nationwide rollout of the Navigator on the deadline date.

If July 2nd dawns and if there are markets out there (as I suspect there will be) that haven't yet been "Navigatored," I'd be interested in seeing a few posts to that effect, so I can pass that information on to the people who've been indicating otherwise to me.

(Of course, if the Navigator somehow does take hold everywhere by 07/01/07, I'll "forget" to bring up the subject with the aforementioned people.)

It's all part of TW's mis-information campaign. An attempt, to blame their failures on someone else (and who better to pick on than the FCC).

Honestly, the mandate is on integrated security. Navigator, or any other OCAP application does not address that. You may well find some cable boxes with CableCards running on Navigator, but you will also find a lot running the current software (SARA, Passport and whatever software Motorola boxes) as well.

Folks, 7/1/07 is only a couple of weeks away. You'd think there would have more deployments (more dipping the toes in the waters) if that were true.
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post #898 of 18143
6/17/07 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Folks, 7/1/07 is only a couple of weeks away. You'd think there would have more deployments (more dipping the toes in the waters) if that were true.

If I read the post right, I think CrazyWoody's friend just said July, not specifically July 1, for Navigator. Even so, I just don't see it happening.

Also, I read this over on HDTVoice and wondered what it's all about.
Quote:


Does anyone know if the new cable boxes TW will offer on July 1st will be better than the SA 8300 HD DVR and compatible with Sony TV's? The TW Kiosk operator told me that more features will be turned on and the new boxes are from Samsung.

Kind of sounds like something running Navigator?
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post #899 of 18143
6/17/07 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

If I read the post right, I think CrazyWoody's friend just said July, not specifically July 1, for Navigator. Even so, I just don't see it happening.

There are two July dates floating around; one is CrazyWoody's friend, the other is that at least here in Lincoln we've been told on several occasions that the July 1 FCC reg date is going to force a Navigator rollout by that date. I have no information on Woody's friend, was instead referring to the (mis)information from our Lincoln TWC people.

Regardless, there's an interesting little comment in the most recent TWC annual report,

http://www.secinfo.com/dsVsf.u1gz.htm

(section entitled "TWC may not be able to obtain necessary hardware, software and operational support", pages 40-41) which seems to a novice like me to indicate that (as of report date 2/23/07) TWC was trying (and having trouble) getting hold of STBs that would be compatible with the FCC ruling, and work with HDTV, and work with the "proprietary interactive program guide" (i.e. the Navigator). I have no idea why they wanted to throw the Navigator compatibility into that mix; obviously FCC rules are a priority, and HDTV compatibility is important for business reasons, but it looks like those two items would have kept them sufficiently busy that they would have worked at a more leisurely pace trying to get Navigator compatibility. It is a bit of legalese; I might be misinterpreting it. Full section follows for your own alaysis. (I've boldfaced the references to HDTV, severable security, and the "proprietary interactive program guide so you can see them easier.)

Quote:



TWC may not be able to obtain necessary hardware, software and operational support.

TWC depends on third party suppliers and licensors to supply some of the hardware, software and operational support necessary to provide some of its services. TWC obtains these items from a limited number of vendors, some of which do not have a long operating history. Some of TWC's hardware, software and operational support vendors represent TWC's sole source of supply or have, either through contract or as a result of intellectual property rights, a position of some exclusivity. If demand exceeds these vendors' capacity or if these vendors experience operating or financial difficulties, TWC's ability to provide some services might be materially adversely affected, or the need to procure or develop alternative sources of the affected materials might delay the provision of services. These events could materially and adversely affect TWC's ability to retain and attract subscribers, and have a material negative impact on TWC's operations, business, financial results and financial condition. Since late 2006, TWC has noted increased demand for HDTV-capable set-top boxes. This increased demand comes at a time when TWC's set-top box suppliers need to begin making changes in their production processes to enable them to supply cable operators with set-top boxes that use separate security. See Risks Related to Government Regulation The FCC's set-top box rules could impose significant additional costs on TWC below. As of February 20, 2007, TWC was experiencing, and may continue to experience during the near term, difficulty in obtaining sufficient quantities of HDTV-capable set-top boxes to satisfy all consumer requests for such boxes.

A limited number of vendors of key technologies can lead to less product innovation and higher costs. For these reasons, TWC generally endeavors to establish alternative vendors for materials it consider critical, but may not be able to establish these relationships or be able to obtain required materials on favorable terms. For example, each of TWC's systems currently purchases set-top boxes from a limited number of vendors. This is due to the fact that each of TWC's cable systems uses one of two proprietary conditional access security schemes, which allow TWC to regulate subscriber access to some services, such as premium channels. TWC believes that the proprietary nature of these conditional access schemes makes other manufacturers reluctant to produce set-top boxes. Future innovation in set-top boxes may be restricted until these issues are resolved. In addition, TWC believes that the general lack of compatibility among set-top box operating systems has slowed the industry's development and deployment of digital set-top box applications. TWC has developed a proprietary user interface and interactive programming guide that it expects to introduce in most of its operating areas during 2007. No assurance can be given that TWC's proprietary interface and guide will operate correctly, will be popular with consumers or will be compatible with other products and services that TWC's customers value.


You'll note that the last sentence in the cited section has proven to be quite accurate.
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post #900 of 18143
6/17/07 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

Also, I read this over on HDTVoice and wondered what it's all about.
Quote:
Does anyone know if the new cable boxes TW will offer on July 1st will be better than the SA 8300 HD DVR and compatible with Sony TV's? The TW Kiosk operator told me that more features will be turned on and the new boxes are from Samsung.
Kind of sounds like something running Navigator?

I'd come across the following press release from Samsung a week or so ago; I assume that it's the product that HDTVoice is talking about. I know nothing more than what's in the release.

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/P...119_0000313783
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