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KEF Owners Thread - Page 157

post #4681 of 6029
2/11/12 at 4:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWind View Post

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I have a question about correct placement of my KEF iQ8ds dipole surround speakers.

As I understand it, dipole surrounds have an in-phase side and an out-of-phase side. When used as Sides (as mine are) you're supposed to orient them so that the in-phase side of each speaker faces towards the front of the room. (One good explanation/diagram of this approach is HERE.) Many makers of dipole surround speakers label their dipole surrounds as right and left to ensure this correct placement.

My iQ8ds have no such labeling. I've found instruction manuals for a couple of other (newer) KEF dipole surrounds and they don't seem to have R or L labels either. Nor, is there any mention of correct phase orientation of dipole surrounds in any KEF literature that I have found.

Why the difference? - Is there something different about KEF dipole surrounds? Does KEF just not think that it's necessary to orient dipole surrounds so that the in-phase side of each (side surround) speaker faces towards the front of the room? Or, something else?

I welcome any knowledgeable answers. - Of course, an Official" KEF response would be really great!

Thanks,
Dave
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The iq8ds have drivers firing out of phase, and oriented on each side of the speaker, thus not needing to be labeled L or R. All you need to do is have them mounted so the "null space" faces the listener. In simpler terms, you would place them so the kef logo is pointing at you. They have keyhole mounts in the back to mount on the walls.
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post #4682 of 6029
2/12/12 at 1:17pm
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Yes, I understand the null space idea but, some other makers of dipole surrounds, very much like the iQ8ds, still label theirs as right and left to ensure this phase correct placement. The Polk LSiF/X (when in dipole mode) is one example. I would think that the Atlantic Technology surrounds reflected in the link in my previous post would create the same kind of null space too.

My assumption is that those speakers which are labeled with R and L are manufactured as mirrored pairs specifically to be able to conform to the phase-in facing forward theory. Alternately, those without such labels are manufactured identical to each other (not mirrored) and, as a result, cannot possibly conform to the phase-in facing forward theory when setup normally.

So, I'm really asking two questions:
  1. Is both phase-in sides facing forward positioning really better than: having one side with phase-in facing forward while the other side has the out-of-phase facing forward.

  2. Are the iQ8ds sold as mirrored pairs? Or, are all the iQ8ds identical?
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post #4683 of 6029
2/12/12 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWind View Post

So, I'm really asking two questions:
  1. Is “both phase-in sides facing forward” positioning really better than: having one side with “phase-in facing forward” while the other side has the “out-of-phase facing forward”.

  2. Are the iQ8ds sold as mirrored pairs? Or, are all the iQ8ds identical?

Yeah, these are good questions. I don't know the answers. Or if it even matters. It is possible that they are mirrored pairs but which side faces forward is not too important. Did you email KEF?

I can remember similar discussions regarding Paradigm's ADP (I think that was the model) surrounds over the past few years, here. You may want to search for that just to see the direction those discussions took.
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post #4684 of 6029
2/12/12 at 8:31pm
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Hi sivadselim,

No, I haven’t emailed yet. I’m hoping that the poster known as “KEFAmerica” will respond after the weekend is finished. – Certainly, the answer to question #2 is completely obvious to KEF. And…

If “KEFAmerica” is reading this, I have an addendum to question #2 that might be extremely helpful:

If it turns out that all iQ8ds are identical (not mirrored), which side is in-phase and which is out-of-phase? (Put another way: If I look straight at the front of an iQ8ds, is the right side the in-phase side or the out-of-phase side?)

The answer to this addendum (again, if all iQ8ds are identical - not mirrored) would let all iQ8ds owners know exactly how to set up their iQ8ds in any phase oriented way they so choose. For example: To conform to the “in-phase facing forward” theory, all they would need to do is turn one iQ8ds upside down! (Or reverse the speaker wire connection of one iQ8ds.)
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post #4685 of 6029
2/12/12 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWind View Post

For example: To conform to the in-phase facing forward theory, all they would need to do is turn one iQ8ds upside down! (Or reverse the speaker wire connection of one iQ8ds.)

Turning it upside down and reversing the speaker wire connection may not do the same thing. It depends upon exactly what is out-of-phase. Is it the entire UniQ unit or not? With some dipoles, only the tweeter (or is it the woofer?) is out-of-phase. If that's the case, flipping the wiring polarity of the entire speaker might not be a good idea.
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post #4686 of 6029
2/12/12 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Turning it upside down and reversing the speaker wire connection may not do the same thing. It depends upon exactly what is out-of-phase. Is it the entire UniQ unit or not? With some dipoles, only the tweeter (or is it the woofer?) is out-of-phase. If that's the case, flipping the wiring polarity of the entire speaker might not be a good idea.

I bet you're right about that. If only ½ of the drivers are out-of-phase, then reversing the speaker wires would probably not be a good idea and just screw up the sound. - Fortunately, the underside of the iQ8ds is the same the top.
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post #4687 of 6029
2/13/12 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWind View Post

I bet you’re right about that.

Not necessarily. Jus' sayin'. I have no idea how they work. Do you have any documentation with them that might say?
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post #4688 of 6029
2/17/12 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWind View Post

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Yes, I understand the null space idea but, some other makers of dipole surrounds, very much like the iQ8ds, still label theirs as right and left to ensure this phase correct placement. The Polk LSiF/X (when in dipole mode) is one example. I would think that the Atlantic Technology surrounds reflected in the link in my previous post would create the same kind of null space too.

My assumption is that those speakers which are labeled with R and L are manufactured as mirrored pairs specifically to be able to conform to the phase-in facing forward theory. Alternately, those without such labels are manufactured identical to each other (not mirrored) and, as a result, cannot possibly conform to the phase-in facing forward theory when setup normally.

So, I'm really asking two questions:
  1. Is both phase-in sides facing forward positioning really better than: having one side with phase-in facing forward while the other side has the out-of-phase facing forward.

  2. Are the iQ8ds sold as mirrored pairs? Or, are all the iQ8ds identical?
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Hi,
KEF dipole speakers are made differently. The purpose for these speakers is to disperse sound evenly through out the room. You shouldn't be able to tell if the sound is coming from the speaker, but more from that side of the room.
All the drivers are identical in the speakers. The speakers will produce the sound based on the wiring (surround L and surround R) so phasing happens in the crossover based on the audio signal it receives. Because we use 2 Uni Q drivers in our dipoles they are actually a 3 way speaker give a full sound across the range.

Sincerely,

KEF America
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post #4689 of 6029
2/17/12 at 2:41pm
Long story short... My friends at Parasound arranged a replacement tweeter for my Kef Reference 2. Does anyone has any experience replacing the tweeter? Soldering is no issue, just getting the tweeter out. It looks like there are 4 'screws' in the front panel but it doesn't look like regular screws. Anyone any experiences?
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post #4690 of 6029
2/17/12 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Long story short... My friends at Parasound arranged a replacement tweeter for my Kef Reference 2. Does anyone has any experience replacing the tweeter? Soldering is no issue, just getting the tweeter out. It looks like there are 4 'screws' in the front panel but it doesn't look like regular screws. Anyone any experiences?

If it's anything like the other kef line, you have to take out the actual driver, then the tweeter is held in by 1 screw in the pole piece (middle of the back of the speaker). They are probably all hex head.
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post #4691 of 6029
2/18/12 at 9:14am
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post #4692 of 6029
2/18/12 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranchdrsn View Post

If it's anything like the other kef line, you have to take out the actual driver, then the tweeter is held in by 1 screw in the pole piece (middle of the back of the speaker). They are probably all hex head.

I am mostly concerned opening the speaker. Here's what's holding the front in place. What tool do I need for this?

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post #4693 of 6029
2/19/12 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

I am mostly concerned opening the speaker. Here's what's holding the front in place. What tool do I need for this?


You know what, I think it's a torx... for some reason that pic looks strange.. almost like it's some sort of cog that is in the head or something, but if you look at it more it seems like a reverse torx. Perhaps it was the flash. You are speaking of the screws that hold the actual driver in the cabinet correct. If it's bumped up then it's a reverse torx or female torx (like on nintendo carts), if it has a hole then it's just a regular torx. The reverse torx socket might be a little harder to find, but still avail at most specialty hardware stores.
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post #4694 of 6029
2/19/12 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

I am mostly concerned opening the speaker. Here's what's holding the front in place. What tool do I need for this?


What is this a picture of?
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post #4695 of 6029
2/19/12 at 10:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEFAmerica View Post

Hi,
KEF dipole speakers are made differently. The purpose for these speakers is to disperse sound evenly through out the room. You shouldn't be able to tell if the sound is coming from the speaker, but more from that side of the room.
All the drivers are identical in the speakers. The speakers will produce the sound based on the wiring (surround L and surround R) so phasing happens in the crossover based on the audio signal it receives. Because we use 2 Uni Q drivers in our dipoles they are actually a 3 way speaker give a full sound across the range.

Sincerely,

KEF America

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Thank you very much for your reply! However, I just don't see the answers to any of my questions in the reply.

In order to avoid additional confusion, let me condense my previous posts into just these two questions for KEF:
  1. Are the iQ8ds sold as mirrored pairs? Or, are all iQ8ds identical (not mirrored)?

  2. And, if all iQ8ds are identical (not mirrored), which side is the in-phase side and which is the out-of-phase side? (Put another way: If I look straight at the front of an iQ8ds, is the right side the in-phase side or the out-of-phase side?)

I really thought these would be very basic and easy questions for KEF. - You've been making this type of dipole surround speaker for a long time.

I do thank for your assistance in this matter,
Dave

Fwiw - I'm not complaining about my iQ8ds; I like them. I just need this information.
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post #4696 of 6029
2/20/12 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

What is this a picture of?

The screws of the outside cabinet from a Kef Reference 2 speaker. You can see a tiny part of the actual driver on the bottom right of the picture.
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post #4697 of 6029
2/20/12 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

The screws of the outside cabinet from a Kef Reference 2 speaker. You can see a tiny part of the actual driver on the bottom right of the picture.

Hmmmm. Thanks. It's just hard to tell what that is a picture of or even get a sense of the perspective since the photo is so close-up. Is that a "hole" or does that protrude. Was there something covering that? Does that double as the "hole" that the grill clips into?

So, you have to remove the front baffle to remove the driver?
edit: Stupid question. I looked at my XQs and they are the same. Still don't understand what is pictured, though. Is that what is behind the plug that the grill plugs into when you remove that receptacle?
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post #4698 of 6029
2/21/12 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim;21672656[I View Post

edit: Stupid question. I looked at my XQs and they are the same. Still don't understand what is pictured, though. Is that what is behind the plug that the grill plugs into when you remove that receptacle?[/i]

Correct! It's the screw that keeps the front in place.
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post #4699 of 6029
2/21/12 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Correct! It's the screw that keeps the front in place.

Thanks. I'll take your word for it. Hope I never have to see mine.

It looks like a hex key might work provided it is the correct size. Looks like there are 6 "nubs" in there in your photo.
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post #4700 of 6029
2/21/12 at 10:27am
Is KEF a warm, bright or neutral speaker going to pair it with Anthem mrx500 avr. I'm looking at q500 & q200 for now.
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post #4701 of 6029
2/22/12 at 12:39pm
Anyone know if it is possible to refinish a pair of IQ90s into the Stardust - metallic silver color that was offered on the Reference series?

Would it just involve sanding down the finish, painting it metallic silver and clear coating the heck out of it?

Can anyone recommend a shop that could help out?

Here is the look I am after.

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post #4702 of 6029
2/22/12 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

Anyone know if it is possible to refinish a pair of IQ90s into the Stardust - metallic silver color that was offered on the Reference series?

Would it just involve sanding down the finish, painting it metallic silver and clear coating the heck out of it?

Can anyone recommend a shop that could help out?

Here is the look I am after.


The iq90's are finished in vinyl. You are correct in the sanding, painting and clear. I'm sure as long as you removed the drivers and hookups any local automotive body shop could do it, not really any different than painting a bumper.
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post #4703 of 6029
2/22/12 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranchdrsn View Post

The iq90's are finished in vinyl. You are correct in the sanding, painting and clear. I'm sure as long as you removed the drivers and hookups any local automotive body shop could do it, not really any different than painting a bumper.

Good call on the auto body shop. I haven't thought of that. I did talk to a furniture refinisher and he can do it but I think the auto body shop would be cheaper. Yes, I will remove all drivers and components and probably even sand and primer it myself. Just have the shop paint and clear it for a smooth finish.
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post #4704 of 6029
2/23/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

Is KEF a warm, bright or neutral speaker going to pair it with Anthem mrx500 avr. I'm looking at q500 & q200 for now.

I find them neutral. I first listened to the Q300s which are phenomenal bookshelf speakers. They get better with age as they break in. Very flat frequency response, even at loud volumes your ears do not hurt. Very detailed & accurate.

Then I ordered the rest of the setup Q900 & the Q600c & boy I am in love with the Q900s. This is my first "expensive" speaker so I have nothing equivalent to compare to but just listening to them is like music pouring out from them in a smooth velvety texture. That probably doesn't make any sense but I don't have fancy technical terms to describe it.

The Q600C center is a massive center weighing 31 lbs. Dialogs are crystal clear out of the box & the combination of the Q900 & Q600 produce a wall of sound in HT mode. All this at low - moderate volumes since I am in a condo. Very pleased with my purchase so far.
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post #4705 of 6029
2/23/12 at 1:46pm
I'm trying to decide which speaker brand I'll be getting next. I'm using right now NHT VT-1.2 system in my HT. This is going to a tough decision thanks for the reply.
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post #4706 of 6029
2/23/12 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

I'm trying to decide which speaker brand I'll be getting next. I'm using right now NHT VT-1.2 system in my HT. This is going to a tough decision thanks for the reply.

Another thing to note, the Q900s rated down to 30 hz +/-3db, pretty much what most mass market subs go down to. After setting them as "large" in my AVR & disabling my sub i have never missed my sub. Yes the lows below 30hz do not get produced, but at my listening levels the sub is hardly working anyway. I am seriously considering going "subless", the Q900s make very detailed, tight & clean bass. It is after all a sealed enclosure.
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post #4707 of 6029
2/24/12 at 7:40am
anybody here have the Kef T205, and whats your thoughts on them?
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post #4708 of 6029
2/24/12 at 10:38am
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Originally Posted by NY613 View Post

anybody here have the Kef T205, and whats your thoughts on them?

We sell them and it is not a bad system for a smaller room
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post #4709 of 6029
2/24/12 at 10:59am
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Originally Posted by Tooley View Post

We sell them and it is not a bad system for a smaller room

how does it compare to kht 9000 series?
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post #4710 of 6029
2/24/12 at 11:23am
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Originally Posted by NY613 View Post


how does it compare to kht 9000 series?

The 9000 is far better plays louder cleaner and clearer.
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