KEF Owners Thread - Page 160

That's exactly what I'm finding with this center channel. If I would've purchased 3 600c (LCR) as my front stage as someone had suggested before to get the best three same models I could afford...I would've definitely returned the KEF. The 600c really does have no low end to it. And like I mentioned before, it sounds ok in movies..but 500$ for ok? I really feel like the q300 could do a much better job as a center and cost half the price and take half the space. Although I don't have a way to confirm this and also don't know where or if you can purchase a single q300.
Cream puff have you tried taking your other speakers out of the equation and listening to the sound solely from your q600? I'd like to know what you think as well.
I got a response from KEF saying: Sounds like there might be an issue with your Q600c. The Uni-Q in the Q600c is the same Uni-Q in the Q300. They should act similar to each other.
I'm kind of debating at this point if I should return it before the 30days are up. I almost feel like another q300 would satisfy me much more, but don't really need another pair of them..

Just curious about what size you have the center channel set to. I have the Q600c (with Q300's), and if I have the center channel set to "Small" on my receiver it sounds like you are describing. If I set it to "Large" it has plenty of low end (in my humble estimation) on its own.

yea i have all 5 of my speakers set to small for HT use, so my sub crosses over properly.. but when i listen to music i set the amp to pure direct, which bypasses the eq and the mains sound like totally different speakers in the low end.

i can try my 600c as a main speaker if you guys would like to get a idea of how it sounds.

Please do, it will be of great help.

I spent 2 hours going back to back Q600C to Q300 using as a main channel on just the left channel.

I have come to the conclusion that ONE Q300 is superior to the Q600 at exactly half the price. Highs, mids & lows there is no contest. In a nutshell, the Q600 sounds like the Q300 with a blanket over it, including vocals which is what the Q600 is primarily meant to do. I played Matrix movie scenes with dialog & with action sequences, once again the Q300 is superior. The ONLY area where Q600 might be better is that it throws a nice wide soundstage but otherwise the tonal quality sucks. For music I would play 20-30 seconds of a song, stop, shut off the amp, disconnect the speaker cable from the Q600 & hook it up to the Q300 & repeat that same time slot again. I kept doing this many many times over the course of 2 hours.

I use a Yamaha RX-A1000 preout to a Emotiva UPA7, I use good quality blue jeans interconnect cable & clean power supplied to all components. Pure direct mode & speakers set to large.

I've tried the 600 set to large and small (audyssey sets to small). I really don't see any difference...I don't see how you could because it plays no bass/midbass whatsoever. I'm glad you checked yours out too arshishb because since no one else had brought this up, I just thought I was being too critical on a center channel. But I definitely agree with what you're saying as well.
I've tried it in LF, HF, bridge knobs on and off, as a center with mult ch, center with dolby, as a left speaker in stereo/direct. Nothing made me think "oh, now it sounds closer to a q300." Cream Puff, of course more input/testing is definitely welcome. Maybe you aren't hearing what we are because you have multiple drivers to take care of that mid/low end bass. But I'm very much leaning towards returning it. If I can get a more quality sound with taking less space and costing less..why not?
I'm going to try and speak to a KEF rep tomorrow and see if they can give a little more insight.
And arshishb I don't know how serious you are about changing, but if I get a pair maybe we could split em if you're in the US. Would be really nice if I could somehow hook two q300 as center lol, but I doubt that's possible with the impedance and other issues, etc.

As much as I would like to use a Q300 for a center, I can't because of space constraints. I don,t think I can place it horizontal & even if I can, I can't put the TV on it like I have on the Q600. I definitely can't place it vertical either. And unfortunately I couldn't get to testing it sooner so I am out of my 30 day return window. So my only option is to get an equivalent replacement from Kef, provided they even deem that our problem is a problem. If this is what it is, then I must say their center channel is a far cry from their other offerings in the Q series.

I'm going to buy the KEF Q900 and Q600 and hope to get it by this weekend. Once I get it I'll check out Q600 and let you guys know of my findings.

No, it wouldn't. You wouldn't want to do that. You use one speaker for each of your other channels; you'd want to use one speaker for your center channel. Impedance aside, using two speakers for the center channel would create other undesirable problems.

You guys can also try running a phantom center.

Center channels are supposed to have reduced low end. This is because the reflection off the tv and tv stand augments response and if the speaker is left flat it could sound boomy and chesty.

This might be true for small sized centers. The Q600 is a large & hefty center, though there are much heavier. It is 25 inches across & 31 lbs heavy & unless you spend hefty money you cant buy a cabinet where such a center can fit. That is why I have mine below my TV.

I think there's something wrong with your q600. In theory, I don't see how it can sound much different from a 300. It's basically the same speaker with a woofer and passive radiator thrown in. If anything, it should have better bass.

You may try exchanging it for another and see how that goes.

alright guys, i went and fiddled with it.. 2 ch mode, pure direct running from my emotiva xpa 5.


the q900s are a whole different animal, but i don't notice a huge difference between the q300 and q600c.. do they sound different? yes they do.

obviously they are going to sound different, as the q300 is a 2 way design with only the uni q driver handling the mid/low frequencies and the 600c is a 3 way design that crosses over under the uniq and uses a woofer/passive radiator combo to handle the low stuff.


i listened to a record i am VERY familiar with, and while they don't sound the same, i can't say one sounds way better or way worse, the 600c clearly is a bit more vocal heavy, where the 300c is a bit more boomy in the bass department, i would attribute this to being voiced for different purposes.. the q300 is an all round speaker, to be used for music/movies as either main, or surround speakers.. the 600c has 1 purpose, to sit below your tv and produce center chan sounds.

placement also I'm sure is part of why I'm seeing a difference, i have the speakers where they are meant to be.. the q300 is ~8 inches out from the wall, on a stand.. where the 600c is sitting in my tv stand, below one shelf, and on another.

have you guys having trouble tried putting the 600c in a tv stand?

also i tried the q300 with the port plug in that is supposed to flatten out the freq response and they sound closer to the 600c with the port plug in.. is it possible that what you guys are seeing is the 600c already has a flat freq response and the 300c has a padded non flat curve with the port opened that just happens to be a sound you like better?


last thing i can think of, is the xpa 5 is 200 wpc, and the 600c is rated up to 150 and the q300 is only up to 100.. is it possible you guys are under driving the 600c a bit?


visually the woofer and passive radiator (2 outside speakers) move a fair bit on the 600c, while the uniq moves less (and albeit less than the q900s uniq does) when pushed hard.. I'm assuming this is due to the 3 way design instead of a 2.5 way in the q900 or 2 way in the 300c, but it does move, just not a ton.


below is a link to pictures of my setup so you can see placement.. i didn't move a thing, just reached over the top of the amp, and moved the pre outs around so the center channel and 300c were getting played as 'mains'.. maybe if you guys posted pics of how you have your 600c's sitting we can find any placement issues that may be causing the reduced bass?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1395870

Thanks Cream Puff, that helps.

I can live with the low low bass, its the mid bass that are not up to par & that is what is bothering me. Vocals too sound better with the 300. I will have to call Kef to see if they can exchange or repair or whatever for the same unit so I can be sure. Or I will just have to live with it. Like i said earlier, it sounds just like a Q300 with a blanket on it.

FWIW I am driving them both with an Emo UPA7 which is 125 WPC which is not bad so my amp isn't really struggling with any of them. I have left it on at home again today with another CD, going to see if that has made any difference.

stick that foam plug in the port of the q300 and see if they sound closer.. the q300s non plugged freq graph has a fairly decent hump in it from what i remember... you might just happen to like the ported sound better

Foam plug?

the Q300 should come with a little foam port blocker plug thing, and a card showing when/how to use it and what it does to the frequency response of the speaker.

it also comes with a rubber foot to aid in wall mounting.

What the....? I neither got foam plugs nor rubber foot, no wonder I couldn't figure out how to mount the damn things on the wall.

So, what is the speaker sitting on? If on a shelf or table, is it directly on the shelf? How far back from the front of the shelf is the speaker? Got a picture?





You got yours at A4L, right?

I agree. Doesn't really make sense. With toolskizm's or arshishb's.

if you need i can take you a picture, im sure you could make yourself something that works just as well.

Check the box again. I almost threw away my plinths because they were so buried at the bottom of the box under more cardboard...

You might try a different channel on your amp if you haven't. Might have a bad one. Could try different interconnects for that channel as well.

Alright guys, here's my update. I may have come full circle.. I had a chance to really do some more testing without worrying about waking a teething 8 month old, which is a disaster waiting to happen lol.
I mentioned early on I was skeptical about the port maybe having something to do with it. Not sure why I never tried the plugs, but I did that today too. But another thing I did, which I hadn't before was actually swap one q300 with a q600. So I had a q600(L),q300(C),q300(R). I did some louder testing with port plug and without. Also listening further out from the q600 knowing now that apparently the outside drivers are what are really making the low end for that speaker as opposed to the q300 setup. I can say now, it really puts the two alot closer in sound. Though I was hoping for a louder speaker with the q600..but maybe that also has to do with what I'm driving them with (denon 2312 alone).
The other thing I really noticed too though, is the q300 in center (which I never tried before) sounds much worse as well. And like I speculated, I'm thinking it has to do with how multi ch works maybe? It's night and day even with this odd setup with the two left and rights and the center. Now I know just about everyone here uses pure direct for audio. And I agree that's how it should be played, but I also just was hoping I would get a louder experience using multi ch and thinking I'd have more like 3 of the same speakers instead of two. Yes, it helps the vocals but that's about it. And when I get the q900, I have a feeling I won't have this problem.
So, that being said I'm going to stick with the 600. Ports still make a big difference in my opinion. Crazy what a good ported box can do to a speaker. I've heard a good ported 10" outperform (in my opinion) 2 12" sealed. So that's that.
Of course, now I get a new concern...you mentioned underpowering cream puff. That was a bit of a concern of mine when I purchased my AVR. I admittedly do not know too much about the home audio component world. From what I understood from some users is that since these speakers are so sensitive, an external is not really necessary. Could someone chime in on this? I'm running a 2312..which doesn't have the pre-out the 3312 does, so did I screw myself with that choice? Eventually going to 2 q300, 1 q600c, 2 q900, and a sub.

i was just tossing around ideas as to why you guys have been seeing such a massive change in sound quality.. the kef speakers dont NEED a dedicated power amp, the q900s could benefit from them but they will sound just fine without, you might just lose a couple db on the top end when you really wanna rock and roll in 2 ch mode. but the quality at sane volumes will be the same either way.

i had an old 2 ch amp that went out on me, and had to use my receiver to power them for a week while my emotiva power amp came in and it did a respectable job.

i wouldnt worry about blowing your money on a new receiver and amp, just get the 900s and enjoy.. if a year or 2 down the road you have some money buring a hole in your pocket upgrade to a pre/pro and power amp.. but the change wont be huge unless you run your system REALLY loud regularly (i do )

It is sitting on my entertainment center which is a about 25" high, that brings the Q600 right at neck level when I sit on my couch directly in front of it.

It is back from the shelf but not too far, bringing it further will mis-align it with the Q900s & will being my TV too close to me. I will post a pic soon.



Yes. I will call them today to ask them if it was not included in my package.


I eventually purchased Pin Point wall mounts for $60 a pair & just got done with it. Thanks though.


I checked again before throwing the box, no luck.

Just a quick note to the guys/gals in the last few posts having issues with sound from their KEFs, try looking at this post and the follow-ups after it. It has to do with Audyssey/Auto Setup affecting the overall sound of your speaker setup.

Try the suggestion of manual calibration to 83db with all Audyssey settings disabled. I just did this last night and believe it or not, it made a huge difference. I'm running a Denon 3311 with IQ90 mains, IQ60c center, IQ30 surrounds and an older DCM dual front and bottom firing sub.

What is between the Q600c and the entertainment center? And what is between the TV's base and the speaker? If it is just hard surface against hard surface, you could probably benefit from something soft and/or rubbery in between everything. Furniture bumpers. Shelf liner. Carpet pad. Mouse pad. Etc..


It doesn't have to be aligned with your L/R speakers; that is what the speaker distance/level settings are there for. I understand that, with the TV on top of it, that bringing it all the way forward to the edge of the shelf might make things look strange but if the speaker is behind the front of the shelf, reflections off the shelf will affect the speaker's output.


Were they "open box"?

Yes, they were open box on the website but when I called at the time of ordering they said all of them are new. I called them today & they said they will fwd my info to Kef & they will send out the missing items no problem.

Here is the pic of my front arrangement. The drill is placed as reference as that is where I placed the Q300 when I did my comparisons. They are back on the wall mounts now.

I have never really "measured" my speakers/sub before & would like to do so. I think I can use my laptop & the Yamaha mic that came with the receiver but what software can I use?

Anyone know anything about the Kef Reference 2 speakers? What are they worth for a used pair and how do they sound?