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KEF Owners Thread - Page 173

post #5161 of 6599
If you have a knowledge of electrical properties, you can look at the capacitance, inductance, and resistance of the wire, as well as the length of the run versus the wire gauge or cross-section, and pretty much make your own speaker wires fairly cheaply that will perform just as well as pretty much anything you'll find in a catalog or store. That's my personal view, and I'll leave it at that.

I would like to note one interesteing thing, though. DS-21 mentioned the loss of up to one-half decibel with undersized wire, and just to be clear, while 1dB (decibel) is the supposed minimum audible change in volume perceptible to the human ear, it has been clearly shown that a change of as little as 0.2dB can be perceived by the listener, and is enough to cause a listener to believe that one product sounds "better" than another.

To cite my data, see this article, if you ahven't already read it a dozen times, as many probably have.

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
post #5162 of 6599
Glasswolf... Interesting read, thanks. I would love to make my own cables.

The last thing I'm saying about (more?) expensive cables is this: the opponents are like liberals: the most vocal, least respectful and usually don't care about others although they pretend they do.

Now let's get back to Kef, okay?
post #5163 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Glasswolf... Interesting read, thanks. I would love to make my own cables.

The last thing I'm saying about (more?) expensive cables is this: the opponents are like liberals: the most vocal, least respectful and usually don't care about others although they pretend they do.

Now let's get back to Kef, okay?

^How very nice of you to take one last cheap shot at your opponents and then call for everybody to get back to KEF.
post #5164 of 6599
On a completely different note, if anybody has a KEF Reference Model 90 center channel with a blown tweeter, I've discovered KEF has a replacement part number available as the KEF SP1550X "spare NT19HF unit" that runs about 30 pounds from their UK office. I need to call the US side to see if they have these and a local price on Tuesday.
I have two model 90 centers with shot tweeters (one bought that way, one from old age) so I figured it may not be uncommon.

Removal of the original tweeter is rather simple, as well.

Unscrew the 4 screws holding in the UniQ driver and remove the driver. Disconnect the 4 leads going to the speaker's terminals, then remove the single philips head screw/bolt from the center of the magnet structure in back of the 6" driver.
After removing that bolt, and the rubber gromet beneath it, you can de-solder the two thin wires (black and red) from the 4-post speaker terminal on the midrange unit.
Unpon completion of this step, simply push the tweeter module out of the midrange speaker voice coil pole location using something like a pen or screwdriver. The tweeter is simply held in place by magnetism once the single bolt in back comes out.
post #5165 of 6599
exm, if you want some info on DIY cables, check out this site:
http://diyaudioprojects.blogspot.com...h/label/cables

AVSforums also has a great thread on the topic called something like "take a look at these beauties" that goes on for some 65 pages on DIY cables by members.

I picked up some good intell from those sites.
post #5166 of 6599
Just got R300s love them just have a little problem. They sound nicely balanced, full bodied and relaxed. But voices seem little recessed, moved back into sound stage, highs missing spark and air. Sometimes I get a feeling like speakers are covered with a towel, I'm almost reaching for a remote to push a magic button to open up the highs. I use those with Marantz SR6005 and don't really want to run Audyssey just yet...

Anybody had similar experience with R series? Or do I just need to adjust?
post #5167 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

The last thing I'm saying about (more?) expensive cables is this: the opponents are like liberals: [edit] they don't deny the existence and relevance of reality because reality is inconvenient, or because it's in their friends' pecuniary interest to do so [/edit]

With the above edit, I concur completely. Wire religion* is an awful lot like a lot of other teabagger-type faith-based beliefs: climate change denial, birtherism, WMD-in-Iraq, evolution denial, etc. Reasonable, educated people just can't fathom how someone can hold such beliefs.

*that is, the entirely faith-based - as no actual controlled study has ever demonstrated it to exist - belief that "audiophile" wires have magic quality properties in them. And that the more expensive the wire, the more magic the wires have in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

On a completely different note, if anybody has a KEF Reference Model 90 center channel with a blown tweeter, I've discovered KEF has a replacement part number available as the KEF SP1550X "spare NT19HF unit" that runs about 30 pounds from their UK office. I need to call the US side to see if they have these and a local price on Tuesday.

Hmm...is that a 1" or .75" model? I've not blown mine, but I've read enough horror stories about people blowing the tweeters in their KAR 160Q's (shared with the last Andrew Jones-designed Reference home speakers, I believe) that I feel like I should have some spares on hand. Mine are going on 19 years old now. Not bad, considering that the whole car-fi industry has yet to come up with something equal, let alone better, than what Andrew Jones designed over two decades ago!
post #5168 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Hmm...is that a 1" or .75" model?!

Thanks for asking as I forgot to specify the tweeter being replaced.

The model 90 originally came with the NT19 SP1352 4-ohm 3/4" (or 19mm) HF unit (tweeter).

The model 100 and 200C use the 1" tweeter, for which I have no original model and type, or replacement, though I could e-mail KEF UK again to ask, just for the FYI of it.

I personally have a 200c, 100, and two 90s in my home, and the 100 and 200c are working flawlessly, although I did recently have to take the model 100 apart to re-flow the solder on the inductor coil of the crossover, as the ceramic wire-coating on the leads hadn't been stripped back quite enough, and it was causing an intermittant contact causing the speaker to cut out at times. That was just a factor of age, and nobody's fault really. Easy fix.
post #5169 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Wire religion* is an awful lot like a lot of other teabagger-type faith-based beliefs: climate change denial, birtherism, WMD-in-Iraq, evolution denial, etc. Reasonable, educated people just can't fathom how someone can hold such beliefs.

I think these wire - religion guys are either salesmen who are trying to rip off folks or they have been brainwashed and they need help. Or maybe they just need time to accept the truth.

Anyway, it is our responsibility to educated all the new audiophiles and hopefully prevent them from getting ripped off by these snake oil guys. Only thing we can do is try, right?

The Audioholics community has absolutely no tolerance for these wire - religion / snake oil guys. Maybe one day, the AVS community will accomplish that.
post #5170 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

Thanks for asking as I forgot to specify the tweeter being replaced.

The model 90 originally came with the NT19 SP1352 4-ohm 3/4" (or 19mm) HF unit (tweeter).

Darn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

The model 100 and 200C use the 1" tweeter, for which I have no original model and type, or replacement, though I could e-mail KEF UK again to ask, just for the FYI of it.

Do you know if they're the same tweet? I assume that the 200C uses the same tweeter as the KAR 160Q and the Refs 1-4, but I don't remember where the 100 fit in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

That was just a factor of age, and nobody's fault really. Easy fix.

Yeah, often older speakers will get random little aging/weathering-related issues that are fairly easy to diagnose and fix. It does require the courage to undo some screws, though.
post #5171 of 6599
Hey Glass Wolf,

Any update on how the Model 200C sounds with regards to dialogue in home theater vs. the Model 100? Big or little difference? Thanks
post #5172 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Do you know if they're the same tweet? I assume that the 200C uses the same tweeter as the KAR 160Q and the Refs 1-4, but I don't remember where the 100 fit in.

The PDF manual I have for the 90/100/200c lists both the 100 and 200c as having:
25mm (1") fluid-cooled HF unit, and 160mm (6-1/2") bass unit, with the 200c having the additional pair of 160mm bass units (non-UniQ) as well as the difference in enclosure volume and order for each respective speaker.
I do not have specific model numbers for each, however as I've not had the driver itself apart in either my 100 or 200c as of yet. I would assume they are the same speakers in both the 100 and 200c however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beezar View Post

Hey Glass Wolf,

Any update on how the Model 200C sounds with regards to dialogue in home theater vs. the Model 100? Big or little difference? Thanks

Thanks for reminding me. The 200c and 100 are very similar in dialog, although the 200c is a more robust speaker, as it adds the two additional bass units, allowing it to function as mroe of a full range speaker, as opposed to something better run with an 80Hz or 100Hz HPF, such as is the case with the Model 90 and 100 center.

I really do adore both the 100 and 200c, though. I just moved my Model 100 up to my second HT system, and the 200c now resides as the center for my living room/main setup.
post #5173 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by yveletnik View Post

Just got R300s love them just have a little problem. They sound nicely balanced, full bodied and relaxed. But voices seem little recessed, moved back into sound stage, highs missing spark and air. Sometimes I get a feeling like speakers are covered with a towel, I'm almost reaching for a remote to push a magic button to open up the highs. I use those with Marantz SR6005 and don't really want to run Audyssey just yet...

Anybody had similar experience with R series? Or do I just need to adjust?

Run Audyssey. Maybe Audyssey will detect what you're hearing and boost the upper frequencies.
post #5174 of 6599
It's very possible what you're hearing is a deficiency caused by your room acoustics, reflections, or some similar issue. This is why we use Audyssey. Run it and see if you hear a difference. Using a dedicated amplifier instead of an AV receiver might make a difference, too.
It shouldn't, technically, but I've gone from an AVR to dedicated two-channel amps for both pair of my 104/2s, and it made a world of difference in them.

Just a thought.
post #5175 of 6599
Kef owners, anyone care to tell me how good the IQ90's are? I can't listen to them as I don't have a dealer near me. And how do they compare to say the Q500 because I can get both for around the same price. Thanks.
post #5176 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

It's very possible what you're hearing is a deficiency caused by your room acoustics, reflections, or some similar issue. This is why we use Audyssey. Run it and see if you hear a difference. Using a dedicated amplifier instead of an AV receiver might make a difference, too.
It shouldn't, technically, but I've gone from an AVR to dedicated two-channel amps for both pair of my 104/2s, and it made a world of difference in them.

Just a thought.


I'm running R300 side by side with Denis Murphy's monitors and when I switch to KEF in a middle of a song voices move back and become muffled and highs loose air, but sound gains fullness and body.
I hoped to get more relaxed and forgiving sound going with KEF and I did. I also hoped R series is good enough to do both, give me nice details while staying relaxed. maybe at this price point I can only have 1.

Do you think I need to be looking at the reference series to get both Something like 201/2?

Thanks,
Yuriy

p.s. just a thought, would it be possible to get a separate stereo amp feed highs through it (connect Marantz speaker outs to woofer terminals, FL & FR pre-outs to an amp and then amp to mid/tweet terminal, not sure if I can control the gain level on pre-outs)? in theory I would be able to give more power to mid driver and tweeter and maybe solve my dilemma?
post #5177 of 6599
Hi I'm stuck on what I should pit in my new system. I wanted towers and the wife said no. I thought about doing all in ceiling speakers until I saw the keff 6000 series. I can't find much about them though. Can someone give me their opinion please.
post #5178 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAART View Post

NTRAIN96 - I think I read your post somewhere here about modding iQ30.
Are you the right person to speak with?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post22056588

Please read my response to your query in above thread.
post #5179 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Yep.......
Regardless if you want to do some cab mods and upgrade the xover, would you prefer I give you the values to the XQ20 instead? Steep 24db slope xover on the mid/tweeter vs. the 12db slopes on your iQ30, both which use the same driver in case you didn't know.

I found the problem in x-over and can not believe that this is happen!
I had a crack on the PCB!
Not sure how this can happen. While I moved recently to my new place I placed everything in non-heated storage (Canadian winter, maybe get them) and month later moved everything out and that is only logical explanation to me that maybe the temp change from around -5 to +23 when I place them in my condo caused this, however I didn't played them for another month or so.

NTRAIN can I have those values and schematics if you don't mind and a bit more info on your cab and x-over mods for the iQ30. I might stay with Sonicap Gen 1 upgrade only but definitely want to get best out of this speaker.

How did you get them to sound almost like KEF reference series?
Info please...
post #5180 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by yveletnik View Post

I'm running R300 side by side with Denis Murphy's monitors and when I switch to KEF in a middle of a song voices move back and become muffled and highs loose air, but sound gains fullness and body.

They should sound different in the same room, having very different polar and power responses, especially if the room isn't large. I haven't heard the R300, but what you are describing is difficult to reconcile unless they are vastly different from the (new) Q series...and the Blade, which both were derived from. Did the demo pair sound this way at the dealership (if/when you listened)? Are you sure all effects are bypassed on your AVR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yveletnik View Post

p.s. just a thought, would it be possible to get a separate stereo amp feed highs through it (connect Marantz speaker outs to woofer terminals, FL & FR pre-outs to an amp and then amp to mid/tweet terminal, not sure if I can control the gain level on pre-outs)? in theory I would be able to give more power to mid driver and tweeter and maybe solve my dilemma?

They are bi-ampable, so yes this can be done. But it shouldn't have to be done and unless you can do this with an existing mch AVR, spending the $$ on an extra amp might be a bit frivolous, when finding a DIYer/hobbyist near you with measurement capability should be free. Have you contacted KEF to describe the issue? What terminals do you have your wires plugged into?

cheers,

AJ
post #5181 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAART View Post


I found the problem in x-over and can not believe that this is happen!
I had a crack on the PCB!
Not sure how this can happen. While I moved recently to my new place I placed everything in non-heated storage (Canadian winter, maybe get them) and month later moved everything out and that is only logical explanation to me that maybe the temp change from around -5 to +23 when I place them in my condo caused this, however I didn't played them for another month or so.

NTRAIN can I have those values and schematics if you don't mind and a bit more info on your cab and x-over mods for the iQ30. I might stay with Sonicap Gen 1 upgrade only but definitely want to get best out of this speaker.

How did you get them to sound almost like KEF reference series?
Info please...

RAART, I have a pair of ig7's and one of them had an issue with the crossover. I removed it and found that my board was cracked as well. The manner in which the crossover was mounted in the enclosure was such that any bump to it was direct impact to crossover. I remember when they were delivered to my house, one of the boxes looked to have been dropped! That is the only thing I can think happened with mine. Not sure if temp differences can really cause the board to crack unless moisture is or was present.
post #5182 of 6599
Can happen too during the moving but I didn't see anyone dropping anything, but you never know... The only thing I remember they played afterwards for few days, then my 2yr old daugther started to play with them and tried to pick them up but didn't make it even 10cm high and dropped them down but if this will cause the PCB crack then this is crazy. They played after too and one day just woofer stopped... That's about it. I thought first to toss them away while my daughter manage somehow to peel the vinyl from it. Don't ask how but I keep them for a while and now is the time to play with them.

While I got them for my old B&O Beovox CX100 - straight exchange; I just didn't care to much for them, then I heard during my NY trip some kind of modified iQ30's and was blown away how they did sound. Since then they were in box until I get them out and take look into. Now I am pretty eager to get them modified to sound like those ones I heard.

Anyway have some info already and will start from there...

Just need more info in the reinforcing cabinets (fiberglass, bondo?)


and of course more info on XQ20 x-overs...
post #5183 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAART View Post

Can happen too during the moving but I didn't see anyone dropping anything, but you never know... The only thing I remember they played afterwards for few days, then my 2yr old daugther started to play with them and tried to pick them up but didn't make it even 10cm high and dropped them down but if this will cause the PCB crack then this is crazy. They played after too and one day just woofer stopped... That's about it. I thought first to toss them away while my daughter manage somehow to peel the vinyl from it. Don't ask how but I keep them for a while and now is the time to play with them.

..........

First, toss the dodgy wire KEF supply for connecting LF and HF speaker inputs if you haven't already. Use proper copper wire to connect speaker inputs.

I did this several months ago on iQ10 and it made a big difference of SQ. It was also the first thing I did with new iQ30 as well.
post #5184 of 6599
I am just getting back into audio. I have had Martin Logan,mirage, b&w, now that I'm looking for a main speaker I have auditioned 2 times at different dealers the new R500 I was very impressed with the soundstage, it was just easy to listen too. Very impressed. What is everyones thought.
post #5185 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain- View Post

First, toss the dodgy wire KEF supply for connecting LF and HF speaker inputs if you haven't already. Use proper copper wire to connect speaker inputs.

I did this several months ago on iQ10 and it made a big difference of SQ. It was also the first thing I did with new iQ30 as well.

I did it already while I had on them bi-wired connections. I never tried them with single hook up... Do not know even how they sound like this...
post #5186 of 6599
Hello, I just bought from Vanns a pair of iQ90's but they didn't come with the plinth base and since I've carpet they don't look too stable. Any idea where can I get them?
Thanks in advance.
post #5187 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicMau View Post

Hello, I just bought from Vanns a pair of iQ90's but they didn't come with the plinth base and since I've carpet they don't look too stable. Any idea where can I get them?
Thanks in advance.

Call me crazy, but I'd try contacting KEF America.

cheers,

AJ
post #5188 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicMau View Post

Hello, I just bought from Vanns a pair of iQ90's but they didn't come with the plinth base and since I've carpet they don't look too stable. Any idea where can I get them?
Thanks in advance.

Why you don't complain to Vanns? It is on the picture on their web page, and they should supply you with those or it is false advertising... and complain to KEF America.
post #5189 of 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAART View Post

Why you don't complain to Vanns? It is on the picture on their web page, and they should supply you with those or it is false advertising... and complain to KEF America.

Yes, it is on the picture but I just reviewed their web site again and in the specs tab it says:
- Mounting options: Designed for floor placement, plinth base shown but not included. So I don't think I can complain.

The strange thing is that the manual shows how to install the base, it doesn't look like an accessory and also in the box there is a picture of the iQ90 with the base. weird since these are brand new speakers, unopened box.
post #5190 of 6599
I think that it is the dealer... KEF might give them a option with or without base... Who knows while even their webpage for iQ50 says plinth included.

Check the link. CLICK HERE

But their have their ass covered for sure with stating that base is not included. It might happen that it is country based too.

Yes you right while I checked my manual too and shows how to install plinth base as first thing to do. You might call KEF Americas and check with them just to make sure.
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