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KEF Owners Thread - Page 182

post #5431 of 6601
how are the ls50's for movies?
post #5432 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyp3 View Post

how are the ls50's for movies?

Check out the UK AVForum thread for the LS50. Dav1dF replaced his 5 R300s with five LS50s for HT and loves them. His two channel setup is Blades. His previous HT standard was the original M&K. I would guess they are spectacular.
post #5433 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

When listening/comparing the Q300 to the Q100 I felt like the Q100 was a bit more even, and maybe even slightly more detailed. Then the same thing happened when I compared the R300 to the R100. I think what I was hearing on the the 300's, both the R and the Q, was a very slight push in the mids that muddied the mids a hint. Not dissing the 300's - both the 100's and the 300's sounded excellent to me and the difference was very, very subtle. And of course a big plus to both the 300's was the extended bass (I'll be using a sub so that advantage is not as important to me).
Just curious - has anyone else heard the same thing?
Unfortunately I heard the Q and the R series on different occasions so I haven't had a chance to compare the two series to each other. I'm a fan of three identical speakers LRC and am leaning towards using either the Q100 or R100 for my front stage. The difference in price between the Q and R series is nearly double hence my second question ...
Is there a significant sq difference between the Q100 and R100? Has anyone had a chance to compare them?
(Still considering the Q300 or R300 so any comparison of those would be welcome also.)

I had the R300s side by side with Q900s for a coupe of weeks. When I A/Bed them it made sense to keep the Q900s, but after a month or so I started to miss certain things of R300s (very distinct clarity, full bodied and well defined base and the main thing is the tweeter on R series sounds like a big step up from Q). So I sold the Q900s and got R500s and I'm happy for now. I would be perfectly fine with Q900s as well and it's a hard call whether the Rs worth the double in price (or an extra $1,000 for front 3 in case of Q900s vs R500s).
There is difference in UniQ between R300s and R100s, since R100 UniQ has to play full range it's different from R300 and the rest of the R range, those only play down to 500Hz. R300s have the same UniQ as all the big Rs. I dont think its the case for Q series since those are 2 - 2.5 way speakers (all the UniQs play full range), so I think extra details in 100s might be just voicing of the speaker.
I heard muddied mids in R300s too, I think it's just how they voiced the speaker, trying to make it sound bigger (they bumped up upped base, got a full pleasant sound, but muffled up the mids) audyssey fixed that problem, but it sux that you have to use audyssey.. R500s sound a little better in that department and I bet bigger Rs are even better.

There is always audiogon where you can find a pair of used R300 and Q300s and A/B them at home for a couplle of months, than sell the looser for the same price as you bought them. I bought R300s for $1,100 and sold them for the same price 2 days after making a post... Look at E-bay too I saw a pair of R300s sell there for $900 a couple of weeks ago

And also people seems to say good things about LS50s and I bet those will have a good resale value since those are anniversary editions... You know if ADTG wants to get them it means they will go up in price:)

hope it helps
post #5434 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldemar View Post

Hello!
I'm thinking of a 5.1 setup using Q300 x4, and hoping to upgrade to 7.1 in the future.
My question is regarding the center, I have read the Q600c will be the best option since it shares the same UniQ driver as the Q300, and the Q200c uses the Q100 driver.
I have also read about people using another Q300 as center (same speaker for LCR)
1- What is the best way to go? Q600c?
Also,
2- Any idea how much the Q600c will suffer being placed next to a wall? (as I understand it is rear ported)
Will 2-3" be enough for the port, or can the port be plugged - heard the Q300 can be plugged to remove the boom in the bass.
3- Which crossover are you guy using with the Q300 and Q100?
A couple of posts I read mention the Q100 is not that good at 80Hz, so they XO it at 100-120Hz
4- Is it overkill to go 5/7 channels using all Q300? Should I use Q300 front and Q100 for surrounds?
Side note:
My first choice was the KHT9000, but for the best price I have found, each cost the same as a pair of Q300, and according to specs and what I read, the Q300 seem to be better.
Any thoughts on that? Am I doing the right thing with Q300 over KHT9000?
Other info
Room is ~1800sq feet
AVR will be a Denon 4311, or a 4520 if I find the money :P
Sub: chose a Rythmik F15 (sealed) - no room for a ported 15", and don't want to lose excursion by going 12"
Used for 80-90% movies, the rest music. (no games)
Thanks!

I could always hear the difference between the horizontal center and LR. So there is benefit to using all identical speakers. R600c is not ported though
And the rears get so little action that I think the Q100s would do just fine
post #5435 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by yveletnik View Post

I could always hear the difference between the horizontal center and LR. So there is benefit to using all identical speakers. R600c is not ported though
And the rears get so little action that I think the Q100s would do just fine

Thanks, If I go with Q300s I'll use one for center, it makes perfect sense, and the UniQ driver provides a wide sweet spot.
Will end up with 1 extra speaker, but since I live out of USA (in Costa Rica) and with very limited chances to warranty and resell, I guess an spare will be a a good thing in the long run cool.gif

=-=

Any feedback on the Q300 vs KHT9000?

Both have 6.5" UniQ, but no mention of tangerine wave guides so I guess they're not the same...
KHT9000 has 2 more bass drivers but the Q300 has a proper enclosure...
KEF specs say 80Hz is above their bass extension (75Hz) but I dont trust any manufacturer specs hehe tongue.gif


Plan to use them for Movies, so if both can successfully reach 70-80Hz I might prefer to go with the KHT9000 due to placement, room and WAF
Anything else I should consider?

Please help!
Edited by Oldemar - 10/17/12 at 5:56pm
post #5436 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by yveletnik View Post

... There is always audiogon where you can find a pair of used R300 and Q300s and A/B them at home for a couplle of months, than sell the looser ... Look at E-bay too ...
And also people seems to say good things about LS50s and I bet those will have a good resale value since those are anniversary editions... You know if ADTG wants to get them it means they will go up in price:)
hope it helps

It did help - thanks!

I was considering the LS50's but a KEF rep told me they were created as "near field studio monitors". (Plus I haven't had a chance to hear them myself yet.) When I re-checked the specs it does indeed seem they may not be capable of louder volumes.

Any thoughts?
post #5437 of 6601
After lot's of listening/auditioning I'm 95% sure I want to go with 3 identical speakers up front - LRC - for my HT upgrade. Since I don't have enough room for my center to be an upright bookshelf speaker I'm primarily looking at single source speakers so that I can lay the center bookshelf speaker on it's side. (Unfortunately this rules out the R300.) Here are the top 3 setups I'm considering (I'll choose my sub based on which 5.0 I get) ...

R100's RLC and as RL surrounds
($3000)

Q300's RLC with Q100's as RL surrounds
($1550)

Q500 RL
Q200c C
Q100 surrounds
($2050)

Deviating on the last group only because the Q500 and Q200c have closely matching components (5.25 mid/LF drivers and ABR, tower has an extra ABR). The R500 and R200c have exactly matching components but that's getting too pricey. Still uneasy with a horizontal speaker ...

Mostly interested in comments comparing R100's to Q300's.
Edited by sdg4vfx - 10/19/12 at 8:35pm
post #5438 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

After lot's of listening/auditioning I'm 95% sure I want to go with 3 identical speakers up front - LRC - for my HT upgrade. Since I don't have enough room for my center to be an upright bookshelf speaker I'm primarily looking at single source speakers so that I can lay the center bookshelf speaker on it's side. (Unfortunately this rules out the R300.) Here are the top 3 setups I'm considering (I'll choose my sub based on which 5.0 I get) ...
R100's RLC and as RL surrounds
($3000)
Q300's RLC with Q100's as RL surrounds
($1550)
Q500 RL
Q200c C
Q100 surrounds
($2050)
Deviating on the last group only because the Q500 and Q200c have closely matching components (5.25 mid/LF drivers and ABR, tower has an extra ABR). The R500 and R200c have exactly matching components but that's getting too pricey. Still uneasy with a horizontal speaker ...
Mostly interested in comments comparing R100's to Q300's.

here is what I had from Vanns, brand new, not opened box, delivered, no sale tax:
Q900s
Q600c
Q800DSs
$2200

so the $2050 for Q500 based setup is a bit too much. So i'd shop around.

When I sad I can hear a difference between center and RL i mean it's there, but it doesnt bother me at all, the center channel runs different info than the RL anyways. I'm getting the R200c for my R500s RL, I wouldn't use the Q200c with Rs but......imo no reason to go through all the trouble to get a perfect match. also you might get away with Q (or even KHT or T) series as rears and R series front. Another step away from the perfect setup but why exactly do you need rear channels? Will you listen to 5.1 channel music a lot? Will you listen mostly to 2 channel stereo for music and 5.1 for movies? In movies I doubt you will hear much difference from your rear channel selection.

But than again to make sure you get the correct setup you need 5 identical, equidistant speakers

Another thing while I could get sellers drop 30% off the MSRP on the Q series, the R series all I could hustle down is 10%.

So my logic is I'm putting most in LR because I want good music, the center is selected automatically and the rears is just whatever looks good on the wall:)

so why not try
R300s LR - $900 - $1100 used
R200c - best I could find is $800 from an unauthorized seller, but I bet if could be found cheaper if not rush
Q100s - $400?
R300s and R200c have a same UniQ, so will sound close.
so total is around $2200

or for same $2200 you can get a Q900s setup if you got room for those.
post #5439 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by yveletnik View Post

here is what I had from Vanns, brand new, not opened box, delivered, no sale tax:
Q900s
Q600c
Q800DSs
$2200
so the $2050 for Q500 based setup is a bit too much. So i'd shop around.
When I sad I can hear a difference between center and RL i mean it's there, but it doesnt bother me at all, the center channel runs different info than the RL anyways. I'm getting the R200c for my R500s RL, I wouldn't use the Q200c with Rs but......imo no reason to go through all the trouble to get a perfect match. also you might get away with Q (or even KHT or T) series as rears and R series front. ...
... Another thing while I could get sellers drop 30% off the MSRP on the Q series, the R series all I could hustle down is 10%.
So my logic is I'm putting most in LR because I want good music, the center is selected automatically and the rears is just whatever looks good on the wall:)
so why not try
R300s LR - $900 - $1100 used
R200c - best I could find is $800 from an unauthorized seller, but I bet if could be found cheaper if not rush
Q100s - $400?
R300s and R200c have a same UniQ, so will sound close.
so total is around $2200
or for same $2200 you can get a Q900s setup if you got room for those.

Thanks again for the feedback and suggestions. Oye, wish I knew how you get $3250, Vanns' listed price, in speakers for $2200 from Vanns ; )

Good ideas on the surrounds being less expensive speakers - sure Q100's or even iQ10's would be fine as surrounds regardless of the front stage speakers. (Oddly the smaller profile KEF speakers like the T101 or HTS3001 cost more.)

This setup will be 90% HT and 10% music so a matching front stage is more important to me than killer R/L towers for stereo. I'll eventually set-up "my" music listening space/room while this HT setup is for family and guests - recently got a new 65" panny plasma so our house if first choice for movie nights ; )

My decided preference for identical LRC speakers is born of my own experience/audition/experimenting over the last few months. Before I knew it was a known/documented issue I was hearing it. Maybe my ears are a bit more sensitive to cancellations or drop out, but it was obvious, and distracting, to me with every horizontal speaker I heard so I'm kind of stuck. (Though I'm tempted to try the R500 R200c combo since the components are identical.)
post #5440 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

(Oddly the smaller profile KEF speakers like the T101 or HTS3001 cost more.)

Compare the cabinet of the Q100 to the HTS3001, and the reason the latter is more expensive will be obvious.

I wish KEF would update the 3005's with their latest-greatest drivers. Even though they're still excellent little speakers. Way, way better than anything else in their size class regardless of price, IMO.
post #5441 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Oye, wish I knew how you get $3250, Vanns' listed price, in speakers for $2200 from Vanns ; )

You just e-mail them saying hey, I want this set for $X price. OneCall wants to sell it for $X+100, but if you guys can beat them you got my business:)
If you decide to order something from Q series I can give you my order number so you can say, Hey, you sold my cousin this MSRP $3250 set for $2200, just do the same for me.
Of course he will need to get his manager's approval and all the usual stuff:)

BTW I saw somewhere that Vanns is going out of business soon...
post #5442 of 6601
Will there be any issues to place a Q300 sideways as a Center?

Since its only 1 driver (UniQ) there should be none, but the bass reflex port makes me doubt a bit, will it generate any kind of "unbalance"?
I guess I can lay it on its side so the bass reflex port is on the right since my Sub will be on front left corner? lol...

hmm since they come in pairs maybe use both on their sides? xD
Can I just wire them in parallel (á la "bi-wiring") or will this generate funny effects.. or damaging ones? :O



Anyone with Q300/Q100 has a picture of the underside of the speaker?
Is it nice/smooth as the sides/top, or is it plain, ugly or strange color?

Thanks!
post #5443 of 6601
i love my q300s my room is about the same size .. i dont think you will be disapionted:D
post #5444 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldemar View Post

Will there be any issues to place a Q300 sideways as a Center?
Since its only 1 driver (UniQ) there should be none, but the bass reflex port makes me doubt a bit, will it generate any kind of "unbalance"? ...
... Anyone with Q300/Q100 has a picture of the underside of the speaker?
Is it nice/smooth as the sides/top, or is it plain, ugly or strange color?
Thanks!

I've heard a Q300's front trio setup with the center on it's side and it sounded excellent. My ears are very sensitive to the lobing/cancellations of horizontal center speakers so I think I would have noticed any issues. (I also heard an iQ30 trio set that sounded excellent. For whatever reason I really like the front stage sound of three identical speakers.)

Interesting question about the visuals ... all I can say is I didn't notice any ugly/odd colors when I was there. I'm listening-to/auditioning Q100's and R100's this week, with the intent of laying the center on it's side - I'll get an up close look then. (Q300/R300 are too large for my HT setup.)
Edited by sdg4vfx - 10/28/12 at 1:20pm
post #5445 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Compare the cabinet of the Q100 to the HTS3001, and the reason the latter is more expensive will be obvious.
I wish KEF would update the 3005's with their latest-greatest drivers. Even though they're still excellent little speakers. Way, way better than anything else in their size class regardless of price, IMO.

Hi DS-21,
Having both the Q100 and the HTS3001's in your living room, do you consider the HTS's to be the superior overall speaker?
Thanks
Dan
post #5446 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

Hi DS-21,
Having both the Q100 and the HTS3001's in your living room, do you consider the HTS's to be the superior overall speaker?
Thanks
Dan

Well, this post will be to some degree an admission against interest - I currently have one of my two KHT-3005SE sets listed on the auction site - but I think the Q100 is generally the better-sounding speaker for most uses. It plays a lot more freely before dynamic compression kicks in (bigger driver, bigger cabinet), renders a more palpable midrange, and has more extended highs. However, the3005SE does image better (in fact, better than anything else I’ve yet heard, at any price or any size, from anyone, though I haven’t heard the LS50 or Blade) in terms of width, depth, placement, and recording-to-recording variability. The 3005SE is clearly voiced warmer as well, with a more pronounced decline in sound power with frequency. Whether or not that’s a good thing depends more than anything else on your listening distance and the overall size of your room. The Q100, by contrast, is voiced hotter on top, and also adds a bit of extra emphasis to sibilant sounds in a recording.

My earlier post only spoke to comparative build quality. The KHT-3005SE looks/feels like a premium product from top to bottom. They are not only well-styled, but well-designed, too. The Q100 looks and feels…like a speaker whose development budget was blown on a fantastic bespoke drive unit, and therefore required cost-cutting measures everywhere else to meet the desired price-point. To use a car analogy, the perceived quality difference between the 3005SE and Q100 is like the perceived quality difference between a Mini Cooper and the old Dodge Neon SRT4.

FWIW, right now my main system uses two 3005SE “center channels” on the KEF floor stands as side surrounds and two 3005SE main/surround channels on the standard tabletop stands atop a bookshelf as back surrounds. My temporary LCR are Q100’s, though that will change hopefully before the year’s out, and if not early next year. The 3005SE bits will likely stay in my main system even when the mains get much better, because the dynamic demands of surround speakers are low, their spectral balance is perfect for that role, and they look so good.
post #5447 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Well, this post will be to some degree an admission against interest - I currently have one of my two KHT-3005SE sets listed on the auction site - but I think the Q100 is generally the better-sounding speaker for most uses. It plays a lot more freely before dynamic compression kicks in (bigger driver, bigger cabinet), renders a more palpable midrange, and has more extended highs. However, the3005SE does image better (in fact, better than anything else I’ve yet heard, at any price or any size, from anyone, though I haven’t heard the LS50 or Blade) in terms of width, depth, placement, and recording-to-recording variability. The 3005SE is clearly voiced warmer as well, with a more pronounced decline in sound power with frequency. Whether or not that’s a good thing depends more than anything else on your listening distance and the overall size of your room. The Q100, by contrast, is voiced hotter on top, and also adds a bit of extra emphasis to sibilant sounds in a recording.
My earlier post only spoke to comparative build quality. The KHT-3005SE looks/feels like a premium product from top to bottom. They are not only well-styled, but well-designed, too. The Q100 looks and feels…like a speaker whose development budget was blown on a fantastic bespoke drive unit, and therefore required cost-cutting measures everywhere else to meet the desired price-point. To use a car analogy, the perceived quality difference between the 3005SE and Q100 is like the perceived quality difference between a Mini Cooper and the old Dodge Neon SRT4.
FWIW, right now my main system uses two 3005SE “center channels” on the KEF floor stands as side surrounds and two 3005SE main/surround channels on the standard tabletop stands atop a bookshelf as back surrounds. My temporary LCR are Q100’s, though that will change hopefully before the year’s out, and if not early next year. The 3005SE bits will likely stay in my main system even when the mains get much better, because the dynamic demands of surround speakers are low, their spectral balance is perfect for that role, and they look so good.

Thanks DS. I've always thought that if KEF would make a larger 3005SE speaker--say a bigger Egg with a 6.5" uni-q driver--it would be a home run. I would happily pay a premium for a great looking speaker like that which could cross over to a sub at 80hz.

I enjoy reading your blog. Nice review of the SAM-1's.
post #5448 of 6601
Question re: a used pair of Reference 201s that I may buy - the seller says the hyper tweeters may not work because he can't hear them. My understanding is that they are essentially inaudible.

Any tips on how to verify that the hyper tweeter works?

Thanks
post #5449 of 6601
Hi all,

Can you tell me if an Yamaha RX-A1020 could power the speakers IQ90 and IQ60C for the frontal zone.
I think then add an amplifier (bypass) for the stereo.

Thank you in advance
Greg
post #5450 of 6601
Just FYI, Vanns currently has a great price on the IQ90s.
post #5451 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by reevhal View Post

Hi all,
Can you tell me if an Yamaha RX-A1020 could power the speakers IQ90 and IQ60C for the frontal zone.
I think then add an amplifier (bypass) for the stereo.
Thank you in advance
Greg

The A1020 should do fine.
post #5452 of 6601
Question re matching up R series for a 7 channel setup.

What I am looking at is:
R300 L&R fronts
R600c center
R100 sides
R100 rears

Thoughts?

Also still looking for a sub.
post #5453 of 6601
would go for 11 KEF LS50 and 2 Gotham from JL audio
post #5454 of 6601
I am too new to this, how do I hook up 11 LS50's for a 7 channel setup?

Oh and the total cost of all of that is a bit too much too lol.
Thanks for the idea though and that sub looks very interesting.
post #5455 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept001 View Post

Question re matching up R series for a 7 channel setup.
What I am looking at is:
R300 L&R fronts
R600c center
R100 sides
R100 rears
Thoughts?
Also still looking for a sub.

Seems fine to me.

BTW, did you know the LS50 has no grilles at all?
post #5456 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept001 View Post

Question re matching up R series for a 7 channel setup.

What I am looking at is:
R300 L&R fronts
R600c center
R100 sides
R100 rears

Thoughts?

Also still looking for a sub.

The R600c and R300 are different-sounding speakers. If it's for movies, then whatever, that's fine. Movies aren't demanding on speaker quality.

But if your use includes multichannel music, identical speakers across the front are far superior. Sadly, KEF makes you either buy two pairs of bookshelves, or three center channels, to get the proper front setup.

If I were you, I'd likely get 3 R600c's if you can fit them and afford them, 4 R300's if you can't fit them but can afford to have a spare speaker lying around. And maybe if enough people bring up this issue to their dealers, KEF will allow single sales of their bookshelf speakers, so people who love music can use KEF speakers for their front trios.
post #5457 of 6601
+1 re three identical speakers up front (LCR) if you can (fwiw another pair of Q300's is the exact same price as a Q600, you just end up with an extra speaker). Big difference in the sound of the front stage.

BTW, while KEF direct only sells bookshelf speakers in pairs, I've found a dealer that will sell R series bookshelf speakers or LS-50's in trio sets. They don't handle Q series unfortunately.

EDIT - Oh brother, missed that you were talking R series instead of Q series. What I said re the 300s/600c price may be way off.
Edited by sdg4vfx - 11/13/12 at 10:15pm
post #5458 of 6601
Since the front speakers should go down at least to 60 Hz, and the center speaker really should only go from 120 to 3Khz, I personally think it is kind of stupid to use three identical speakers.

You DO NOT want the center speaker to produce any bass at all, and some of the best-sounding center speakers I have heard just use 4-inch drivers (an example is the Cambridge Audio S50, which is excellent0.

In my opinion, a lot of the "muddiness" and poor speech quality in systems is due to having center speaker drivers that are TOO DAMN LARGE FOR GOOD MIDRANGE PERFORMANCE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

+1 re three identical speakers up front (LCR) if you can (fwiw another pair of Q300's is the exact same price as a Q600, you just end up with an extra speaker). Big difference in the sound of the front stage.
BTW, while KEF direct only sells bookshelf speakers in pairs, I've found a dealer that will sell R series bookshelf speakers or LS-50's in trio sets. They don't handle Q series unfortunately.
post #5459 of 6601
Hi

Kef LS50 with sub or Kef r 500. What to do?.

My dealer told me to go with LS 50 and the R400b sub instead of R500. The rest of my system is Kef 3005 5.1. And what is the best solution for the rest of my system of LS50 o r the R range?

My amp is Pioneer LX 85(SC-57)
Thanks in advance
post #5460 of 6601
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Since the front speakers should go down at least to 60 Hz, and the center speaker really should only go from 120 to 3Khz, I personally think it is kind of stupid to use three identical speakers.
You DO NOT want the center speaker to produce any bass at all, and some of the best-sounding center speakers I have heard just use 4-inch drivers (an example is the Cambridge Audio S50, which is excellent0.
In my opinion, a lot of the "muddiness" and poor speech quality in systems is due to having center speaker drivers that are TOO DAMN LARGE FOR GOOD MIDRANGE PERFORMANCE.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion - myself, and a great number of others here completely disagree with yours.

Do you believe that L and R mains do not need GOOD MIDRANGE PERFORMANCE? Aren't they using those same drivers you said would be too large for a centre?

And if the director has planned a 100Hz signal for the centre channel, I don't want that localizable noise coming from my sub which may be in the back right corner - I want it coming from where it IS SUPPOSED TO, right at the picture.

Do you have any evidence that no movies or multi-channel music discs have signal in the centre channel greater than 8 kHz or lower than 120Hz? I have no evidence, but I greatly suspect almost every single one does. That would mean that a speaker only capable of 120Hz - 8kHz is woefully inadequate for reproducing all of the signals being sent to it.

Three identical speakers give the best possible timbre match. I have three iQ3s across my front, and they are great. The centre is capable of EXCELLENT MIDRANGE, conincidentally the same great midrange capabilities of my L and R mains.

Simply the best for movies and multi-channel music.
Edited by rick240 - 11/13/12 at 3:15pm
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