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KEF Owners Thread - Page 209

post #6241 of 6604
room size 20x25 18feet vaulted ceiling with a cat walk to my kids room, and its an open plan to the kitchen, dinning room, and foyer, I listen to mostly hard rock ( rush, def leppard, ac/dc, tesla, ozzy, pink floyd, journey, and some club music) and the guy that said I'm under power was the guy I Talk to on phone was the rep for Kef speaker
post #6242 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by duyhung View Post

room size 20x25 18feet vaulted ceiling with a cat walk to my kids room, and its an open plan to the kitchen, dinning room, and foyer, I listen to mostly hard rock ( rush, def leppard, ac/dc, tesla, ozzy, pink floyd, journey, and some club music) and the guy that said I'm under power was the guy I Talk to on phone was the rep for Kef speaker

How far do you sit from the front speakers?

Do you use a subwoofer? Which one?

Do you have a SPL meter? Next time you listen, measure the total SPL c-weighted for all speakers + subs. Then leave your AVR volume alone (don't change vol.), turn off your sub, and measure the SPL again to see how loud the speakers are actually playing at this volume.

I sit about 12ft (3.7 meters) from my front speakers. Some songs produce a total volume of 108dBC. But just to see how loud the front speakers are playing, I shut off my subs, and the SPL was 86dBC.

The Q900 is 90dB/2.83v/m (Stereophile). From 3.7m, it requires only 5 watts to produce a volume of 86dB from a single speaker. 2 speakers playing at the same time would increase the volume to 89dB.

From a listening distance of 5 meters (>16ft) , it requires 10 watts.

From 6.1m (20ft), it requires 15 watts.

So you see why I doubt that 125 watts ISN'T enough power.

So measure the SPL w/ all speakers + subs and then w/o subs and tell me how loud.
post #6243 of 6604
Audyssey's Dynamic Volume really helps the LS50 tremendously.
post #6244 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post

Audyssey's Dynamic Volume really helps the LS50 tremendously.

I hate the Dynamic Volume. It truly dynamically compresses the heck out of the music.

For example, if the dynamic range of the music is from 50dB-100dB, it compresses the range to 75-90dB. eek.gif

But Audyssey Dynamic EQ is great. Love that.
post #6245 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I hate the Dynamic Volume. It truly dynamically compresses the heck out of the music.

For example, if the dynamic range of the music is from 50dB-100dB, it compresses the range to 75-90dB. eek.gif

But Audyssey Dynamic EQ is great. Love that.

Dynamic Volume actually brings out the sound of instruments/details on the LS50, I'm guessing my AVR1713 is not powerful enough to drive the LS50, so dynamically compression actually helps.
Edited by coli - 10/12/13 at 6:14pm
post #6246 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post

Dynamic Volume actually brings out the sound of instruments on the LS50, I'm guessing my AVR1713 is not powerful enough to drive the LS50, so dynamically compression actually helps.

Dynamically COMPRESSING the music actually brings out the sound of instruments? eek.gif

Okay.
post #6247 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Dynamically COMPRESSING the music actually brings out the sound of instruments? eek.gif

Okay.

Yes, that weird me out as well. I actually had it off for a few days, and everything just sound not there. I think it's this speaker in particular.
post #6248 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

To all my KEF friends...Go with Parasounds amps. Get a good one used if you're on a budget, or get the A23/A51 if you can afford it. The Parasounds are the best 'bang for the bucks' and make a great pair for KEF speakers.

Parasound amps are fine - we use a couple of the little Zamp v.3's for background music/AirPlay zones - but I've found their stuff to be a little noisier than the best amps I've tried (Bryston, McIntosh, Anthem Statement, ATI...and Sherwood Newcastle.)
post #6249 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post

Yes, that weird me out as well. I actually had it off for a few days, and everything just sound not there. I think it's this speaker in particular.

I think I know what you mean now.

Some songs or parts of the songs are so low in volume (SPL) that it may be harder to hear unless you crank up the volume.

For example, it may be hard to enjoy a level of 50dB. But Dynamic Volume can increase the 50dB to 80dB, which makes the sound more discernible or enjoyable. Thus, it "brings out" the instruments.

It makes sense. It depends on the album. I can see how some albums and songs may benefit.

But if the DR (dynamic range) is already from 80-100dB, Dynamic Volume will only worsen the sound by making the DR 80-90dB. In this case, it will NOT bring out the instruments. It will take AWAY the instruments.
post #6250 of 6604
I use a old Classe CA-2100 amp and the LS-50 are singing wink.gif
post #6251 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I use a old Classe CA-2100 amp and the LS-50 are singing wink.gif

Definitely looking to get a real amp, but that means a new receiver with pre-outs, plus I'm a bit short on space...
post #6252 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post

Definitely looking to get a real amp, but that means a new receiver with pre-outs, plus I'm a bit short on space...

Even a $300 Denon AVR-1612 is a real amp. Power output w/ 1% THD for 2Ch 8 ohms/ 2Ch 4 ohms/ 5Ch 8 ohms: 118.5/141.5/79.8 WPC.

Even a $300 Pioneer AVR sounds as good as $20,000 Boulder monoblocks in a double-blinded test.
post #6253 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Parasound amps are fine - we use a couple of the little Zamp v.3's for background music/AirPlay zones - but I've found their stuff to be a little noisier than the best amps I've tried (Bryston, McIntosh, Anthem Statement, ATI...and Sherwood Newcastle.)

I'm certainly not disputing there are better amps out there, but in my statement I mentioned 'bang for the buck' and it's hard to dispute that the Parasounds are a high end bargain...
post #6254 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Even a $300 Denon AVR-1612 is a real amp. Power output w/ 1% THD for 2Ch 8 ohms/ 2Ch 4 ohms/ 5Ch 8 ohms: 118.5/141.5/79.8 WPC. Even a $300 Pioneer AVR sounds as good as $20,000 Boulder monoblocks in a double-blinded test.

RIGHT rolleyes.gif
post #6255 of 6604
What do you all think of Class A amplification?
post #6256 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Parasound amps are fine - we use a couple of the little Zamp v.3's for background music/AirPlay zones - but I've found their stuff to be a little noisier than the best amps I've tried (Bryston, McIntosh, Anthem Statement, ATI...and Sherwood Newcastle.)

I'm certainly not disputing there are better amps out there, but in my statement I mentioned 'bang for the buck' and it's hard to dispute that the Parasounds are a high end bargain...

Not really. Parasounds strike me as actually quite expensive for what they are. Competent enough, but nothing special and high priced. (Don't know of anything competitive with the little Zamp, though.)
post #6257 of 6604

Not sure if this is what you meant, but you inferred that the zamp v3 was noisier than Bryston,etc.  Since it's their entry level product it won't be the equal of those other brands you mentioned.  I have a Parasound Halo amp as well as an ATI product(Outlaw), NAD and Harmon Kardon.  I've also owned several other brands, and I guess my experience has differed from yours, the Halo amp is the best I've ever had and I sure wouldn't call it noisy.  Not sure about their Classic line, however.  

But what an amp may sound like can depend on speakers and the rest of the system, so it's hard to compare apples to apples I suppose.

post #6258 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

RIGHT rolleyes.gif

It is right.

There is a double-blinded study comparing a $300 Pioneer AVR vs $20K of Boulder monoblocks.

Granted it depends on the condition - distance, SPL, impedance, etc.

It's more "right" than a bunch of Internet hearsays of "my speakers need a lot of power" or "my speakers really opened up when I gave it a lot of power".

Do you know of any DBTs proving that people preferred the sound of more expensive amps?

I didn't think so.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with buying more amps if you have the cash.

Bottom line, if the person's AVR is doing a good job (sound is good, no I imaginary problems), there is no need to buy an amp just because some people say so.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 10/13/13 at 4:30pm
post #6259 of 6604
I agree 100% ^^^^ I believe that there are better built ,better looking, and some with better features all good reasons for spending more but that's it. I use to think amps sounded different until I dId my own single blind test with the avrs and amp I have at home( harman kardon avr354 , denon avr791 and a creek destiny integrated amp) and to be honest I found myself guessing I really couldn't tell which amp was what. so I can imagine a double blind test would be a lot more valid than mine.
Edited by smasher50 - 10/13/13 at 5:18pm
post #6260 of 6604
Here is a little demo of my Kefs. Still very happy with them. All I plan on doing is upgrading my receiver and bluray player to the Marantz 7008 and Marantz ud7007.
Here is my set up
Marantz sr6001
Marantz dv9600
Sony bluray player(nothing fancy)
Kef iq9
Kef iq6c
Kef iq3
Miller & Kreisel MX-90 sub.
The TV is a Sony KDL55NX720

http://youtu.be/vsJ74zMTAvA


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post #6261 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

There is a double-blinded study comparing a $300 Pioneer AVR vs $20K of Boulder monoblocks.

Granted it depends on the condition - distance, SPL, impedance, etc.

there is no need to buy an amp just because some people say so.

First I agree with your last point if you can't hear the difference just buy BOSE!

Second, I agree with the middle statement.

Third, please show me the publication, let's see how scientifically it was done! I design clinical trials for FDA Approvals. biggrin.gif
post #6262 of 6604
I found post #317 with the video to be interesting about amp comparisons..

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1488534/trade-klipsch-reference-rf-7ii-for-b-w-cm10-is-a-good-decision/300#post_23717928
Edited by XStanleyX - 10/13/13 at 8:22pm
post #6263 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Thanks! Your vertical scale is excessively compact, but nonetheless your measurements still show large off-axis energy flare-up (the dreaded "midrange mushroom cloud") at the bottom of the tweeter's passband, and correlate well with what I actually heard comparing the Q100, Q300, and Q900. True, not as bad as a flush-mounted tweeter with the same size midwoofer and crossover frequency. But I don't judge things on that steep a curve! wink.gif

For comparison, here are some basically unsmoothed (1/48th oct smoothing) measurements including a full polar map of a Q900 concentric as used in a bespoke bookshelf speaker, with significant crossover upgrades compared to the Q900:



Tell me based on the measurements where the crossover is. wink.gif

(HINT: not 1.2kHz. That bump appears to be some sort of resonance in the driver.)

I'll have more information and listening impressions on those later...

Secrets of Home Theater measured the Q300.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/bookshelf-speakers/bookshelf-speakers/kef-q300-bookshelf-speakers/page-5-the-kef-q300-bookshelf-speakers-on-the-bench.html

Granted they only measured up to 30 degrees off axis. But I don't see the "mushroom cloud" in the midrange at the crossover point. Unless I'm reading this wrong--which is entirely possible. biggrin.gif
post #6264 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

First I agree with your last point if you can't hear the difference just buy BOSE!

Second, I agree with the middle statement.

Third, please show me the publication, let's see how scientifically it was done! I design clinical trials for FDA Approvals. biggrin.gif

People should buy whatever they like. If they like Bose, that's fine too.

I see clinical drug trials all the time at my hospital. There is always an on-going clinical trial.

No amp or speaker DBTs will compare to a clinical drug trial.

But it is better than nothing, especially if it has enough population (n) and they used proper testing equipment for level-matching.

It is certainly better than "I hear this" and "you here that" based on "levels matched by EAR". eek.gif

And no, I don't keep track of all the DBTs from the past. I recall them from past readings.
post #6265 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldiggi View Post

Here is a little demo of my Kefs.
biggrin.gif

How is that a demo of your KEFs?

rolleyes.gif
post #6266 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

[quote name="Aldiggi" url="/t/724103/kef-owners-thread/6240#post_23833579"]Here is a little demo of my Kefs.[/quote]:DHow is that a demo of your KEFs? :rolleyes:

What do you mean lol? No link?


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post #6267 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

[quote name="Aldiggi" url="/t/724103/kef-owners-thread/6240#post_23833579"]Here is a little demo of my Kefs.[/quote]:DHow is that a demo of your KEFs? :rolleyes:

Here it is smile.gif
http://youtu.be/vsJ74zMTAvA



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post #6268 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldiggi View Post

What do you mean lol?
What do I mean? How is that demo of your KEFs? What I hear when I play that video are my computer's speakers. wink.gif
post #6269 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Even a $300 Denon AVR-1612 is a real amp. Power output w/ 1% THD for 2Ch 8 ohms/ 2Ch 4 ohms/ 5Ch 8 ohms: 118.5/141.5/79.8 WPC.

Even a $300 Pioneer AVR sounds as good as $20,000 Boulder monoblocks in a double-blinded test.

I love how the KEF thread turned into an 'all amp sounds the same thread'.

If you believe a $300 AVR sounds the same as a $20k monoblock, then there's no point in arguing. I can believe that a $5k and a $20k amp can sound very similar. Or even a good $1k and $20k. But there is no way from my experience an AVR sounds the same.

Do I have scientific data? No. But I've been through enough amps and process in my life to know when I'm subjective to 'placebo', and when not. An example. When I went from the Marantz MA500 mono amps to the Outlaw 2200 mono amps, I really disliked the Outlaws. To me they sound harsh, and I missed the "warm" sounds I got used to with the Marantz. Next was upgrading the Outlaws to the Parasound A51 and I immediately noticed an improvement. Is the Parasound similar to the (much cheaper and older) Marantz amps. Maybe. Is it better than the 2200. Hell yeah.
post #6270 of 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

[quote name="Aldiggi" url="/t/724103/kef-owners-thread/6240#post_23835826"]What do you mean lol? [/quote]What do I mean? How is that demo of your KEFs? What I hear when I play that video are my computer's speakers. wink.gif
:-)!!!! It's amazing!!!!!
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