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The official Toshiba 62MX196/72MX196 OWNER'S THREAD - Page 9

post #241 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post

I just came back from BB where I spent an hour playing with the 62HM196. If I buy Toshiba, it will be the MX model for sure.

The HM was sandwiched between the Sony 60A2000 and the Sony XDR1. Tey ran the sqame HD loop through all sets, and all sets were on Vivid or Sports mode for the highest contrast.

It was apparent to me that the Toshiba was pushing yellow, not only in the BB logo but in flesh tones. Without any color management, I reduced the tint by -10 to get the flesh tones to look the same as the Sony sets (which had too much red in them due to the Sony's red push, probably.

But aI would hate to have to compensate for inaccurate color tint by using the Tint control so dramatically. I am reassured by your post that lowering the yellow was able to corect the flesh tones as well without compromising the other colors.

My only concern with the Toshiba (again this was the HM with the BB loop feed) was that it had more noise in the picture than the Sony's. Not in every scene on the loop, but in some (and the Sonys also have video noise but as much.) I stood 10' from the screenwhich is my viewing distance at home.

I am hoping that this is just a reflection of the loop being fed and not of the Toshiba inherently or could it be the larger screen size (62 vs 60).

Feedback on the video noise, please?

Thanks.

Shelly

I never go by the set-up in the store, especially the BB loop. If the source is good - no noise.
post #242 of 570
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

How do you check it?

I used one of the paterns in DVE.
post #243 of 570
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post


My only concern with the Toshiba (again this was the HM with the BB loop feed) was that it had more noise in the picture than the Sony's. Not in every scene on the loop, but in some (and the Sonys also have video noise but as much.) I stood 10' from the screenwhich is my viewing distance at home.

I am hoping that this is just a reflection of the loop being fed and not of the Toshiba inherently or could it be the larger screen size (62 vs 60).

Feedback on the video noise, please?

Thanks.

Shelly

At Best buy 70hm196 was side by side with the 70" HLS from Samsung and noise was more apparent on the Tosh. I was leaning toward the Samsung set back then for that reason. But Samsung was not sharp enough for my (gaming) tastes so I kept looking. Then I saw the MX version in a circular room at Breault&Martineau against about every other brands (Sony, JVC, Samsung etc) and noise was no more an issue. The only thing that was bothering me back then was the little red push in skin tones. At this point the salesman did his job and introduced me to the color management tool on the MX model. We lowered the red and bingo' I decided to buy the Tosh. But still, if color accuracy out of the box is a very important factor to you then you should consider Samsung. For me sharpness was an issue on the Samy plus Toshiba had a much better price. I'm really happy with my purchase decision.

bslep could tell you more about the image quality of a calibrated MX set. Mine is not professionnaly calibrated. and as he stated: You'll get not noise out of a clean source (360 for example).
post #244 of 570
It was posted previously in this thread and the 195 thread that w/ sharpness set to 0 all edge enhancement, and noise was eliminated.
post #245 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhan View Post

One of the more important things to me is that on the xxMX196 there is a color management feature (Colormaster). With this, you can adjust the hue, brightness and saturation of 6 colors (red, green, blue, yellow, magenta and cyan) individually. .

We know that the MX196 will save adjusted picture settings individually for each input.

But is the Color Management applied globally to all inputs or do you adjust it for each individual input?

Shelly
post #246 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post

We know that the MX196 will save adjusted picture settings individually for each input.

But is the Color Management applied globally to all inputs or do you adjust it for each individual input?

Shelly

It's adjusted over each input individually.
post #247 of 570
The first post in this MX196 thread was on September 16, 2006.

Does Toshiba release new models each year around September of so?

My dilema is that I may not have the $$$ for the 62MX196 until Feb/March of next year and wonder if I should just try to hold out for next year's model if it means waiting just another 6 months.

I would love to just pull the trigger today but hate being in debt.

Shelly
post #248 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post

The first post in this MX196 thread was on September 16, 2006.

Does Toshiba release new models each year around September of so?

My dilema is that I may not have the $$$ for the 62MX196 until Feb/March of next year and wonder if I should just try to hold out for next year's model if it means waiting just another 6 months.

I would love to just pull the trigger today but hate being in debt.

Shelly

Close, I got my 196 set in August but was one of the first on here I think.
post #249 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post

The first post in this MX196 thread was on September 16, 2006.

Does Toshiba release new models each year around September of so?

My dilema is that I may not have the $$$ for the 62MX196 until Feb/March of next year and wonder if I should just try to hold out for next year's model if it means waiting just another 6 months.

I would love to just pull the trigger today but hate being in debt.

Shelly

Bought mine middle of September and was told they had only been in the store for four days. This is the Cinema Series. The standard Toshiba's "HM" I believe came out around April.
post #250 of 570
a home shopping channel has a great deal tonight on this bad boy
post #251 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps2baseball View Post

a home shopping channel has a great deal tonight on this bad boy

I just cheked hsn and qvc on line and no mention of this set. Which one?

Shelly
post #252 of 570
hello have question the Toshiba manual shows the infrared remote control sensor as being nearly smack dab in the middle of the viewing screen was wondering how a handicapped person like me who uses a infrared blaster system via computer controlled voice recognition software would interface the blaster emitter onto the infrared receiver sensor? Usually this is accomplished by taping the emitter directly over the receiver sensor on the TV but if the Toshiba sensor is actually in the middle of the screen how would I do it? Is the sensor really located there as the manual states? How is it you cannot see the sensor if its located in the screen or behind the screen? Anybody have any ideas or suggestions? Thanks
post #253 of 570
ShopNBC is the site that had the Toshiba 62HM196. Just go to the site and search for Toshiba and the 62HM196 will be there.
post #254 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by caspermi View Post

ShopNBC is the site that had the Toshiba 62HM196. Just go to the site and search for Toshiba and the 62HM196 will be there.

But this thread is for the MX196, not the less expensive/fewer features HM196 models.

Still hoping to buy as soon as possible.

Shelly
post #255 of 570
Where are you guy's finding the MX196 at? I'm in Dallas and have been to CC,BB,Tweeters,Fry's,Sams and Costco and none of them have this set. BB has HM196 and that's it. I really don't want to buy it online.

Thanks,
Fred
post #256 of 570
Thread Starter 
In Canada Brault & Martineau have it on display.
post #257 of 570
dhan or anyone else really

What do you have your contrast settings at. After getting my a1 I calibrated it using the HD-DVD test patterns that are floating around and never noticed the white steps starting to blend or the the TV start to go into clipping.

So no I have
contrast - 100
brightness - 53
color setting - warm
lamp - low

I just fell that contrast set at 100 is high.

Suggestions???
post #258 of 570
I have 2 questions about my 62hm196.

First, today I am watching NFL football on HD Fox and HD CBS. The info when watching Fox says 720p input and when watching CBS says 1080i input. There is a tremendous difference between the 2 channels. The Fox broadcast was great; however, the CBS broadcast was terrible. Is this a problem with the cable or is my TV having trouble handling the 1080i input?

Second, sometimes when watching channels that require black bars on the sides, I see a small area on the top of the right bar that looks like a picture is trying to come through. What is causing this?

Thanks is advance.
post #259 of 570
The CBS game I was watching was broadcasted in SD, but the cablebax will still upsonvert to 1080i so if you were to hit recall the TV would show 1080i. It's not the TV.
post #260 of 570
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaxer07 View Post

dhan or anyone else really

What do you have your contrast settings at. After getting my a1 I calibrated it using the HD-DVD test patterns that are floating around and never noticed the white steps starting to blend or the the TV start to go into clipping.

So no I have
contrast - 100
brightness - 53
color setting - warm
lamp - low

I just fell that contrast set at 100 is high.

Suggestions???

Contrast set to 100 is high but if you like it this way...

For my 360 I have:

contrast : 85
brightness : 57
color : 50
tint : 0
sharpness : 0

Dynamic contrast : med
Vertical edge : off
DNR : off
Mpeg : off
color temp : warm (med for some games and 3d movies)
lamp : low for movies, high for games


Professionaly calibrated sets often have the above settings turned off or set lower. I go with what I like and what I like is higher. I also made a lot of change in the color managment menu... I'll post those later.
post #261 of 570
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by glitch77 View Post


Could you give me a rundown on your likes and dislikes about the 72MX? I would really appreciate it. Also, how are the menus?

Thank you again!

What I like:
The screen size
The excellent black levels
No Screen Door effects
Little Silk Screen Effects
Good Standard Def (broadcasts)
Excellent DVD picture quality
Outstanding HD picture quality
Excellent sharpness
User friendly menus with a lot of options (but my wife wouldn't say user friendly )
Very low price
Gaming heaven

What I don't like:
Some rainbow effects (I'm getting used to them, my wife doesn't see them)
Only one preferred setting per input
Inputs only 1080i max
PC input only 1024 * 768 (so my pc is connected through HDMI @ 1920*1080)
Colors out of the box (not easy to calibrate, I think MX is a must)

I don't know yet about the lamp lifespan... 195 models seem to have an issue with that.

Overall I'm really happy with the 72MX196!

...That is a good change from the frustrations I had with my 60" Sony LCD especially with black levels, SDE and that tiny dead pixel.
post #262 of 570
Thank you for your reply dhan, your help is appreciated!
post #263 of 570
Hey guys. I am new to the whole HD thing and this site. I need some info and advice. I also appologize in advance as this will be a long post.

This past Monday, I bought a new Samsung LH-S6187W. I saw the Sammie in many stores and loved the PQ. I had read many reviews about it prior to buying. The only bad thing I read about it was the audio and I have to agree.

When I went to buy it, I did my homework on pricing. I got on the net and printed out a list of the best prices and took them with me to the store. While speaking with the sales rep, he said he also liked the Sammie. One of his co-workers said his favorite was the 62MX196. It did have a good picture, but the price was higher, and I had not done my homework on this model...features, reviews, and pricing. I have to say the MX is not exactly a popular model as I did not see much about it prior to my purchase. Toshiba models are limited in my area. There are plenty of 720P's but the 1080P models are almost extinct. I was interested in the 56HM66, but decided to go with 1080P instead. Also, to be honest, all the bad reviews I had read about the MX195 bulb problems sort of closed my mind about Toshiba.

While at the store, I told the reps that I was either buying that day, or ordering the Sammie online if they could not get close in price. While negotiating, I was quoted a bottom line of $2000 on the Sammie and $2500 on the MX. I was happy with the Sammie price and couldn't see $500 difference in the 2 models, so I took the Sammie.

When I got it hooked up late Monday night, I couldn't tune any HD channels in. On Tuesday, I called my cable company from work to see what it would cost for HD channels and asked which ones I would get. I was disappointed to find all they offered was 5 local channels and the Weather Channel. I got to thinking, my set is supposed to have an OTA HD tuner built in. Why pay when I could possibly get these channels free with a indoor antenna. I decided to stop and buy one on my way home. I also thought I would stop at the cable company to ask more ?'s. There was a tech there who said I get the channels free with my cable plan without a STB, if I have the right HD tuner. He told me what channels they should be on since I told him I didn't find any the night before.

I raced home and tried everything I could to tune these channels on my cable, but no luck. I grabbed my 2nd choice...my new amplified "rabbit ears". Living in east Tennessee, 60 miles from the transmitters and having a metal roof, I knew it would be a challenge. I did get 1 HD station in, but the signal was weak and faded in and out.

On Wednesday, I was determined to get something working so I could see what this tv could do. I stopped at the cable company to get a STB. She told me a tech would have to install the box, and the earliest he could be there was next Tuesday. I told her I would let her know something, but didn't want to wait that long to try it out. She appologized and I left. I was wondering why I couldn't just take the box and install it myself.

After getting mad about having to wait a week, I found about 30' of RG6, connected it to my indoor antenna, went to each room of the house, and then back to the tv to see if I had anything. After a couple hours of trying, I did manage to pick up a total of about 10 different HD channels, but most being in different rooms and weak.

The reason I am posting in this thread is because I am sort of having second thoughts about the Sammie. The first thing said by family members was that the audio sucked. It just has a flat sound with no real hi-fi sort of clarity. It almost sounds like a 19" tv. The next problem is it not having a QAM tuner so I will have to get a STB. Another is that I am not exactly happy with the PQ, from what I have seen so far. Analog is fair, but HD is not as defined as expected. I don't know if it has to do with the weak signal. The picture is just not well defined even though all the HD channels look that way and they are showing to be in HD when I click on info button. It is like the edges of objects are smooth (almost blurred) instead of having hi definition. Facial features look smudged instead of sharp. I have adjusted contrast and sharpness, but it doesn't bring it to where it should be. This does not appear to be a color convergence problem as I don't see any colors hanging outside of others.

I have since researched the prices of the MX, and I only see about a $250 difference in it (tv + shipping) and my Sammie from online pricing. Yesterday, I stopped by the store where I bought it, and the rep wasn't in. I spoke with his manager, and he said they weren't supposed to match internet pricing. I told him I considered returning my Sammie and getting the MX, (considering I have 10 days from time of purchase to return/exchange). He said that was fine, but I would be looking at a $450 difference in price. I have thought about boxing it all back up, taking it in, showing the printout of the online pricing, and telling them I will give them the $250 difference or they can just keep the Sammie and refund the whole thing. Then I can order online and save my 9.25% sales tax.

I would like to know how your audio is.
Will your tuners show HD on both cable and antenna connections?
How does your PIP work? Any restrictions on what it can do or receive?

Guys, I hope you can understand what I am getting at. I spent over $2000 for a tv and want to make sure I made the right decision. I have to live with it for many years to justify the purchase. What are your comments?

Thanks.
post #264 of 570
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatboy63 View Post

.
While at the store, I told the reps that I was either buying that day, or ordering the Sammie online if they could not get close in price. While negotiating, I was quoted a bottom line of $2000 on the Sammie and $2500 on the MX. I was happy with the Sammie price and couldn't see $500 difference in the 2 models, so I took the Sammie.

Up here in Canada the 72" Tosh was $800 less than the 71 Sammy (I paid 1150$ less after some negotiation).

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatboy63 View Post

The reason I am posting in this thread is because I am sort of having second thoughts about the Sammie. The first thing said by family members was that the audio sucked. It just has a flat sound with no real hi-fi sort of clarity. It almost sounds like a 19" tv.

Audio quality on my cousin's 50HM95 sounds like a mono 12" TV (maybe his set is defective but the speakers are tiny). Audio on the 72MX196 does not bother me and does a good job for regular TV watching. But I don't buy a TV based on audio performance. I have an audio receiver for that. No TV can match a good receiver with its 5 (or more) channels and sub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatboy63 View Post

Another is that I am not exactly happy with the PQ, from what I have seen so far. Analog is fair, but HD is not as defined as expected. I don't know if it has to do with the weak signal. The picture is just not well defined even though all the HD channels look that way and they are showing to be in HD when I click on info button. It is like the edges of objects are smooth (almost blurred) instead of having hi definition. Facial features look smudged instead of sharp. I have adjusted contrast and sharpness, but it doesn't bring it to where it should be. This does not appear to be a color convergence problem as I don't see any colors hanging outside of others.

HD channels often broadcast material recorded in SD which is then upscaled to 1080i and looks like what you just described. While I think sharpness is a minus on the Sammy (wich is one of the reasons I did not buy it) picture quality should still be excellent with a clean HD source. Have you tried a xbox360?

And you won't have color convergence problem cause there is not such concept in DLP sets. You don't have three different sources for colors, only one source going through a color wheel. Speaking of colors, they are really good on the Sammy out of the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatboy63 View Post

I have since researched the prices of the MX, and I only see about a $250 difference in it (tv + shipping) and my Sammie from online pricing. Yesterday, I stopped by the store where I bought it, and the rep wasn't in. I spoke with his manager, and he said they weren't supposed to match internet pricing. I told him I considered returning my Sammie and getting the MX, (considering I have 10 days from time of purchase to return/exchange). He said that was fine, but I would be looking at a $450 difference in price. I have thought about boxing it all back up, taking it in, showing the printout of the online pricing, and telling them I will give them the $250 difference or they can just keep the Sammie and refund the whole thing. Then I can order online and save my 9.25% sales tax.

What kind of service will you get online if you're not happy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatboy63 View Post

How does your PIP work? Any restrictions on what it can do or receive?

The Tosh has two antenna (coax) inputs you can view at the same time side by side. Those two can be mixed with any other input for side by side viewing (except VGA). You cannot view other inputs together.

Hope that helps

P.S.:MX models do not have 1080p inputs just 1080i (in case it's important for you).
post #265 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvm624 View Post

I have 2 questions about my 62hm196.

First, today I am watching NFL football on HD Fox and HD CBS. The info when watching Fox says 720p input and when watching CBS says 1080i input. There is a tremendous difference between the 2 channels. The Fox broadcast was great; however, the CBS broadcast was terrible. Is this a problem with the cable or is my TV having trouble handling the 1080i input?

Second, sometimes when watching channels that require black bars on the sides, I see a small area on the top of the right bar that looks like a picture is trying to come through. What is causing this?

Thanks is advance.

I've been wondering the same thing for a couple of weeks and I think I have it figured out...

The CBS broadcast is 1080i and looks great on some shots and fuzzy(grainy) on others. I believe this is caused by the camera they are using. Most of the grainy shots are closeups that come from the camera that runs on a wire across the field( I'm not sure what the official name for it is.)

So my guess is that the camera is not an HD camera or at least not a 1080i camera, as aposed to the camera that does the wide angle(side line) shots.

Just a guess but it's the only thing I can figure.

I don't have a guess about your second question though.
post #266 of 570
Just wondering if anyone else has problems with the MX overdriving yellow? I calibrated it with a disc made by the same ones who do AVIA (Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune-Up from Kmart). The color was close to how I had set it up by eye. Still, it seems to overdrive yellow and sometimes red. It will look perfect while showing one broadcast scene, but can change to another scene and fleshtones look bronze. I already read where similar problems have been seen on CSI Miami and that show seems to just have too much yellow all together. Didn't notice it on my previous SD tv, but it is very visible with this one. I have even went so far as to change my color management by reducing yellow saturation to -20, but still looks natural on some pics and too yellow on others. I have my lamp set on low because the room is fairly dark, and I was wondering if maybe this has some effect on the yellow level. Color level on some shows look normal, but other shows/channels sometimes appear to look washed out or very dim color level.

Another thing, when you go into the color management screen, it shows the 6 colors with adjustments for each in hue, saturation, and brightness. I adjusted the saturation to lower the yellow level. I cannot figure out what the hue is supposed to do, as any adjustment to it seems to be very minute. I would also assume the brightness is supposed to affect the specific color also, but it seems to be very minute.

Another question I have is about color calibration. Since all the calibration standards are done by dvd disc, would it be correct in making the same level adjustments for the other inputs? Let me explain...My dvd is set up on HDMI-1 and I calibrated it from there. When I go to ANT-1 or another input, would transferring the color settings obtained from the DVD (HDMI input) be the same for all inputs?

Thanks guys. I love this tv, but the constant normal then yellowish flesh tones are driving me crazy. Guess I am too much of a perfectionist.
post #267 of 570
I don't think there is any setting that will accommodate broadcast variance. IMO, all you can do is find a happy midpoint setting and live with it.
post #268 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by rseven View Post

I don't think there is any setting that will accommodate broadcast variance. IMO, all you can do is find a happy midpoint setting and live with it.

I understand that, but just can't understand why yellow seems to be so dominating. I don't remember it being like that before I joined the HD family. Thought maybe it was something I was doing wrong.
post #269 of 570
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatboy63 View Post

Just wondering if anyone else has problems with the MX overdriving yellow?.

I too noticed this in some movies and TV broadcasts. This and red skin tones are the main reasons why I started too fool around in the color management menu. I've been in that menu for quite some time now and my wife thinks I'm a little too "color perfect" crazy . A couple of weeks ago while watching Mission Impossible III a did notice some yellowish skin tones in the first few scenes but in later scenes I couldn't see it anymore... I don't know if this problem was caused by the movie itself (didn't check back) or by my set that I had just powered on. If my memory is correct, all those times when I saw (too) yellowish skin tones were when I had just turned the TV on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatboy63 View Post

Another thing, when you go into the color management screen, it shows the 6 colors with adjustments for each in hue, saturation, and brightness. I adjusted the saturation to lower the yellow level. I cannot figure out what the hue is supposed to do, as any adjustment to it seems to be very minute. I would also assume the brightness is supposed to affect the specific color also, but it seems to be very minute.

Yellow hue for example, set at -30, will give an extremely orange yellow and when set at + 30 will give you a greenish one. Red will go from violet to orange. The different is very obvious with a test pattern when you go from one extreme to the other. You can test this yourself with the color bar pattern you probably have on your calibration disk. I made myself a pattern of all six colors using the paint program on my PC and the burnt the jpg to a CD so I could use it in my players. As for brightness, it will make yellow look more dark (brown) at -30 and more pale (white) at +30.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatboy63 View Post

Another question I have is about color calibration. Since all the calibration standards are done by dvd disc, would it be correct in making the same level adjustments for the other inputs? Let me explain...My dvd is set up on HDMI-1 and I calibrated it from there. When I go to ANT-1 or another input, would transferring the color settings obtained from the DVD (HDMI input) be the same for all inputs?

My 360 component input color setup is quite different from my PS3 on HDMI. Even my PC on HDMI is a little different from my PS3 but closer. The picture is darker and colors are quite different through component. HDMI input looks a little better to my eyes. The source makes it different too. So I'll probably start from my 360 setup to fine tune my regular TV watching input (component) and try to adjust colors using skin tones as a reference...

I'll post my color managment settings so you can compare but HDMI is not final...
post #270 of 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhan View Post

I too noticed this in some movies and TV broadcasts. This and red skin tones are the main reasons why I started too fool around in the color management menu. I've been in that menu for quite some time now and my wife thinks I'm a little too "color perfect" crazy . A couple of weeks ago while watching Mission Impossible III a did notice some yellowish skin tones in the first few scenes but in later scenes I couldn't see it anymore... I don't know if this problem was caused by the movie itself (didn't check back) or by my set that I had just powered on. If my memory is correct, all those times when I saw (too) yellowish skin tones were when I had just turned the TV on.



Yellow hue for example, set at -30, will give an extremely orange yellow and when set at + 30 will give you a greenish one. Red will go from violet to orange. The different is very obvious with a test pattern when you go from one extreme to the other. You can test this yourself with the color bar pattern you probably have on your calibration disk. I made myself a pattern of all six colors using the paint program on my PC and the burnt the jpg to a CD so I could use it in my players. As for brightness, it will make yellow look more dark (brown) at -30 and more pale (white) at +30.



My 360 component input color setup is quite different from my PS3 on HDMI. Even my PC on HDMI is a little different from my PS3 but closer. The picture is darker and colors are quite different through component. HDMI input looks a little better to my eyes. The source makes it different too. So I'll probably start from my 360 setup to fine tune my regular TV watching input (component) and try to adjust colors using skin tones as a reference...

I'll post my color managment settings so you can compare but HDMI is not final...

You make a good point on the MPIII movie. I believe that lighting has so much to do with the skin tones. Even on my professionally calibrated display the skin tones can change from scene to scene. I find that CBS has an overiding yellow tint to skin tones on some HD programming and not others. It's just the way its shot. The one good thing about having your TV professionally calibrated is that you know that the colors you are seeing are supposed to look like they do.
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