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Onkyo TX-SR804? - Page 8

post #211 of 1010
The problem with many HDMI 1.1 receivers, including several Onkyo's, is they do not allow any DSP added to the two rear channels of a 7.1 setup when the input is 5.1 pcm. The manual has a matrix that gives the surround modes the 804 is capable of, but it can be confusing. The Toshiba A2 will output bitstream audio over HDMI so I still have a working 7.1 system for 99% of my movies. I purchased the 804 knowing this, and did not want to wait until the 1.3 HDMI receivers come out.

I am very happy with features and the sound quality of the 804, especially the DD+, trueHD thru HDMI that I was missing out on with my old Onkyo 702 receiver. The sound quality from 5.1 lpcm is as good or better than what you get on sd dvd and a 7.1 sound field. IMHO

The Sony looks to have similar features, but not sure abut the PCM limitation mentioned above. I just like Onkyo better than Sony. :>)
post #212 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHSER7 View Post

The 804/PS3 handshake problem is not the fault of the 804 but the PS3. I've read this problem occurs with the Sammy HD DVD player as well. I was looking into buying the 674 too, and the same issue were happening. I almost bought a 674 today but Brandsmart didn't have the silver one available....but what they ended up doing was selling me the 804S for $699 instead!

I just wanted to shed some light on the the handshake issue though. Look through some of the 674 threads for more info on that.


Dude! What are you doing on AVS? Remember me from B15?
post #213 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgenius View Post

Dude! What are you doing on AVS? Remember me from B15?


haha of course I remember you man. Still got the G35?

On here learning/researching to update my AVS setup.
post #214 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHSER7 View Post

haha of course I remember you man. Still got the G35?

On here learning/researching to update my AVS setup.

Yep.. sure do.

I think that the Onkyo lineup is very strong, and the 803 vs 804 is almost identical with the exception that the 804 upconverts everything to HDMI, which is slightly convienient, though my harmony can handle the swaps.
post #215 of 1010
I'm looking into a nice speaker setup for it(the TX-SR804S) now.
post #216 of 1010
I've got the following set up. I'm debating on upgrading my receiving to this model. If anyone has done this was there a difference in the sound quality. Thanks in advance.

Onkyo HT-R510, 2 Athena AS-F1, Athena AS-C1, 2 Polk R50, Velodyne DPS-12,
post #217 of 1010
Just an FYI... Best buy plasma has the 804 for 649
post #218 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by highdefsw View Post

The problem with many HDMI 1.1 receivers, including several Onkyo's, is they do not allow any DSP added to the two rear channels of a 7.1 setup when the input is 5.1 pcm. The manual has a matrix that gives the surround modes the 804 is capable of, but it can be confusing. The Toshiba A2 will output bitstream audio over HDMI so I still have a working 7.1 system for 99% of my movies. I purchased the 804 knowing this, and did not want to wait until the 1.3 HDMI receivers come out.

I am very happy with features and the sound quality of the 804, especially the DD+, trueHD thru HDMI that I was missing out on with my old Onkyo 702 receiver. The sound quality from 5.1 lpcm is as good or better than what you get on sd dvd and a 7.1 sound field. IMHO

The Sony looks to have similar features, but not sure abut the PCM limitation mentioned above. I just like Onkyo better than Sony. :>)

So if my DVD player allows LPCM over HDMI (the oppo 981 does)-- is that the equivalent of DD 5.1?

What exactly is the difference? Not sure what to use now for audio -- HDMI audio or the toslink digital cable to the receiver.

And with the 804, you could add plIIx to dd 5.1 to use all 7 speakers. Are you saying you can or cannot do that if you use LPCM over HDMI?
post #219 of 1010
Onkyo will not add any dsp( plIIx) to pcm. But pcm is the best 5.1 audio you can get, and it sounds better than any optical input to me. IMHO.
As many have already stated, the 2 back channels of a 7.1 setup are matrixed from the 5.1 signal inless you have a true 7.1 source.
post #220 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by highdefsw View Post

Onkyo will not add any dsp( plIIx) to lpcm. But lpcm is the best 5.1 audio you can get, and it sounds better than any optical input to me. IMHO

How is lpcm different from dd 5.1? Isn't it the same thing, just sent a different way to the receiver?

If the DVD is dts discrete (or dd EX) -- is lpcm 6.1 then? Or is it always 5.1?

Does it say pcm on the receiver instead of dd 5.1 if you send lpcm?
post #221 of 1010
From what I understand about the differences, any audio sent over optical is compressed bitstream and is decoded in your receiver. Lpcm is all ready opened and is raw audio sent to your receiver. The big difference I have noticed has been comparing regular dd tracks to dd+ or TrueHD on HD DVDs. Sorry if I mislead you. Might try and see if you hear a difference on regular sd dvds.

I have not seen any pcm audio above 5.1, not on movie anyway.

My A2 will switch from bitstream to pcm depending on the source disk and sent it over hdmi to the Onkyo 804. Yes the receiver will say pcm multi channel when it gets a pcm signal.
post #222 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by highdefsw View Post

From what I understand about the differences, any audio sent over optical is compressed bitstream and is decoded in your receiver. Lpcm is all ready opened and is raw audio sent to your receiver. The big difference I have noticed has been comparing regular dd tracks to dd+ or TrueHD on HD DVDs. Sorry if I mislead you. Might try and see if you hear a difference on regular sd dvds.

I have not seen any pcm audio above 5.1, not on movie anyway.

My A2 will switch from bitstream to pcm depending on the source disk and sent it over hdmi to the Onkyo 804. Yes the receiver will say pcm multi channel when it gets a pcm signal.

Oh yeah, I'm sure trueHD or DD+ is better. I was only talking about standard def DVDs.

I'm waiting on the whole HD DVD thing till they sort out the format war. And when it is set up where the receivers are handling the audio (like they do with DD 5.1) -- rather then it being handled on the DVD player side.

Then perhaps you can more easily use all 7 speakers.
post #223 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by highdefsw View Post

Onkyo will not add any dsp( plIIx) to pcm. But pcm is the best 5.1 audio you can get, and it sounds better than any optical input to me. IMHO.
As many have already stated, the 2 back channels of a 7.1 setup are matrixed from the 5.1 signal inless you have a true 7.1 source.

In PCM 5.1 mode over HDMI, without the ability to turn on any DSP, I notice no sound at all coming from the rear 2 channels. I know there's no true data to them with 5.1, but I don't notice it trying to matrix anything to create the back 2 channels, either. Am I missing something? I actually find that I like optical out of my PS3 better than HDMI because I can turn on PLIIx and get matrixed rear channels.
post #224 of 1010
Let me ask a couple of questions that will show off my PCM 5.1 ignorance.

1. "If I have a standard DVD player with SACD sound is it then correct that that player "IS" cabable of transmitting PCM 5.1 to the 804 via the six analog audio interconnect cables?"

2. "Does the movie DVD disk have to be HD in order for the DVD player to send true 5.1 via PCM or as I asserted SACD to the 804?"

Louisp
post #225 of 1010
I'm assuming you quoted my post/question by accident, since your response had nothing to do with mine lol.
post #226 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkay View Post

I'm assuming you quoted my post/question by accident, since your response had nothing to do with mine lol.

You are correct Mr. Elkay. In fact, you may now notice that my post has been modifed.

Thanks for the heads up.
Louisp
post #227 of 1010
Got the AX2 yesterday. Paired through the new Sony 5200ES receiver then to a Sony KDS-R60XBR2, the picture was phenomenal.

However, the PCM signal thru the HDMI from the AX2 to the 5200ES made for an extemely weak (almost negligable) LFE.
The 5200ES just passes the PCM signal through and you can't increase the LFE response.

I ended up just sending the HDMI out of the AX2 directly to the 60XBR2 and then routing an optical cable out of the AX2 into the video 1 input of the 5200ES to get a digital bitstream instead of PCM.

Hopefully, Sony can update the 5200ES so you can adjust the LFE level when using PCM thru HDMI.

Does anyone have any othe ideas other than the route I took?

Thanks,

Kevin
post #228 of 1010
is the 804 HDMI upconversion 480p? can it also upconvert o 780 and 1080 like the pioneer?
post #229 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf View Post

is the 804 HDMI upconversion 480p? can it also upconvert o 780 and 1080 like the pioneer?

HDMI upconversion does not really change the picture resolution. It simply outputs the video signal received via analog video inputs (composite, s-video and component video) from HDMI out. Onkyo SR804 does however, deinterlace 480i to 480p.

It does not upscale low resolution video signals to higher resolution like 720p or 1080i.
post #230 of 1010
So as I'm going to need an HDMI switch, I figured I might as well upgrade my receiver to one with HDMI switching and get TrueHD sound from my A2 while I'm at it.

I have some questions to some of you that have 804's.

For those of you that upgraded from the 800(my current AVR) to the 804 how much difference did you notice between the two AVR's?

How is the Auto setup? Does it come up with similar values versus being manually configured?

Anyone compared it with similar AVR's? Denon 2807? Yammy 6090/1700? (I know this is severely subjective, I don't have the ability to demo all these side by side, hence why I ask)

I think that's it for now. Thanks in advance.
post #231 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by axs View Post

HDMI upconversion does not really change the picture resolution. It simply outputs the video signal received via analog video inputs (composite, s-video and component video) from HDMI out. Onkyo SR804 does however, deinterlace 480i to 480p.

It does not upscale low resolution video signals to higher resolution like 720p or 1080i.

ahhh... i'm confusing upconversion with upscaling. i guess upscaling is still rather new, which is exactly what i'll be waiting for. hopefully the 804 will add that sometime soon. Pioneer has one and Denon, but they're still quite pricey and Pioneer's supposedly has flaws. hopefully Onkyo will have one of their own soon.
post #232 of 1010
what speakers are everybody running with this receiver? I haven't been able to decide what to get yet. ~6-700 range
post #233 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHSER7 View Post

what speakers are everybody running with this receiver? I haven't been able to decide what to get yet. ~6-700 range

The type and brand of speakers you use with the 804 depends greatly on a number of very important factors - room size, room shape, room walls (solid walls, open concept, entryways), other AV hardware, expended use- i.e. music, movies, tv, budget, style and wife.

By 6-700 do you mean $600-700 total? Answer the above then I can give you some advice.

As for me, I have the room from hell as far as setting up speakers. It took me almost two years to get the best configuration and placement. To illustrate my own confidence in the 804's prowess I'm including a copy of my AV setup.

Video Display
Sony KDF-46E2000 46" Grand WEGA 3LCD Rear Projection HDTV

Audio Video Receiver
Onkyo TX-SR804 THX Select2 7.1-Channel Home Theater Receiver

DVD/CD/SACD Players
Sony DVP-NC85H/B 5-Disc DVD/CD Progressive Scan Up-Scaling Changer
&
Denon DVD-2200 Progressive Scan DVD-Audio/Video Super Audio CD Player

VCR Player
Mitsubishi HS-U748 Super VHS VCR

Satellite Video Source
Directv HR20-700 HD DVR Satellite Receiver

Speakers
Infinity Alpha 50 - 3-Way Dual 8" Floorstanding Front L/R Loudspeakers
Infinity Alpha 37C - 3-Way Dual 6-1/2" Center Channel Loudspeaker
Infinity Alpha 20 - 2-Way 6-1/2" Bookshelf Surround L1/R Loudspeakers
Infinity Alpha 10 - 2-Way 5-1/4" Bookshelf Surround L2 & Back Left Loudspeakers
Valodyne VRP-1000 10" Subwoofer

Power
Monster Home Theatre Reference HTS 3600 MKII PowerCenter with Clean Power State 3v2.1 Circuitry

Cabling(For DTV HR20)
Monster THX Ultra Series THX 1000 HDMI Interconnect
Monster THX Ultra Series THX 1000 Fiber Optic Digital Interconnect

(For Sony DVP-NC85H DVD)
Monster THX Ultra Series THX 1000 HDMI Interconnect
Monster THX Ultra Series THX 1000 Digital Coaxial Interconnect

(For Denon SACD/DVD 2200)
Monster Z300 Ultra High-Resolution Precision Component Video Cable
Monster InterlinkĀ® Lightspeed Reference Fiber Optic Digital Cable
Radio Shack Ultra Gold Series Analog Audio Interconnects (8)(SACD)

(For Mitsubishi HS-U748 SVHS VCR)
Monster Video 3 Double Shielded S-Video Cable
Monster THX Ultra Series THX 1000 Analog Audio Interconnect Cables

(For Infinity Alpha Front & Center Channel Speakers)
Monster Z1 Audiophile Speaker Cable

(For Infinity Alpha Surround & Surround Back Speakers)
Monster New Monster Cable Clear Jacket Speaker Cable

(For Valodyne Subwoofer)
Monster THX Ultra Series THX 1000 Subwoofer Interconnect

Remote Control
Harman Kardon TC-30 15-Device Web-Programmable Remote




Louisp
post #234 of 1010
Any 720p viewers that have this? Haven't made the jump yet, but I have Onkyo right now and like their quality.
post #235 of 1010
I hate how I have a PS3 and another HDMI source and 1 HDMI input on my TV

the PS3 video fades out and screws up running through the 804!!!!

when will this get fixed?! I bought this for this one intention to do HDMI switching for my TV and I can't do it

any news on this being fixed?
post #236 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by dczyz View Post

Any 720p viewers that have this? Haven't made the jump yet, but I have Onkyo right now and like their quality.

I don't quite understand. Have what? Do you mean programing in 720p?
If so, I do and it looks great.

Louisp
post #237 of 1010
Having some issues that hopefully someone can help out with. I can't seem to get a picture using the HDMI in/out. Here's the set-up: Hi Def cable box -> txsr804 via DVI to HDMI cable, txsr804 -> Samsung 4095 via HDMI. I get a picture for about 2-4 seconds, then the screen goes blank and the receiver gives me a "no signal" code.

If I hook up Cable Box -> txsr804 via Component and txsr -> Sammy via HDMI it seems to work fine. This led me to believe something was wrong with the HDMI in...so I exchanged the receiver today for a new one, but hooked it up and have the same problem.

Am I having a compatability problem with the receiver and the cable box? Any help would be appreciated....getting frustrated and thinking of just returning the receiver.

Thanks
Scott-
post #238 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_s2k01 View Post

Having some issues that hopefully someone can help out with. I can't seem to get a picture using the HDMI in/out. Here's the set-up: Hi Def cable box -> txsr804 via DVI to HDMI cable, txsr804 -> Samsung 4095 via HDMI. I get a picture for about 2-4 seconds, then the screen goes blank and the receiver gives me a "no signal" code.

If I hook up Cable Box -> txsr804 via Component and txsr -> Sammy via HDMI it seems to work fine. This led me to believe something was wrong with the HDMI in...so I exchanged the receiver today for a new one, but hooked it up and have the same problem.

Am I having a compatability problem with the receiver and the cable box? Any help would be appreciated....getting frustrated and thinking of just returning the receiver.

Thanks
Scott-

Scott,
I am afraid that you like many of us are experiencing common incompatablity between your cable box and the 804. Run your HDMI from the cable box directly to your television. Next, run an optial or digitial coxial audio cable from your cable box to the 804.

Now for some more disappointing news. You will not gain any advantage in running ANY Video HDMI and or Component through the 804 or for that matter almost any AVR. Even the Onkyo Tech staff will confirm this sad but true statement. Why? Unless an AVR is designed to perform some sort of video black magic the best video will be obtained by directly connecting your video source to your television/monitor.

Best of luck with your new hardware.
Louisp
post #239 of 1010
Louisp,

Thanks for the (disappointing) info....maybe you can answer another question for me..am I going to run into the same problem trying to run my Samsung DVD-HD960 through the receiver? Haven't tried to hook it up yet due to the lack of another HDMI <--> HDMI cable. I'm starting to question why I purchased this....it seems like the features I bought it for are becoming worthless. Maybe the 604 or 674 would produce similar sound quality for a more reasonable price.

Scott-
post #240 of 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_s2k01 View Post

Louisp,

Thanks for the (disappointing) info....maybe you can answer another question for me..am I going to run into the same problem trying to run my Samsung DVD-HD960 through the receiver? Haven't tried to hook it up yet due to the lack of another HDMI <--> HDMI cable. I'm starting to question why I purchased this....it seems like the features I bought it for are becoming worthless. Maybe the 604 or 674 would produce similar sound quality for a more reasonable price.

Scott-

Yes, run the DVD video (HDMI or Component) directly to the TV. I purchased the 804 instead of a lower AVR because of its power.

LP
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