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Another little cable comparision - Page 6  

post #151 of 458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman
You're correct. Quite a number of posters against you and one or two others (... H-m-m-m where is the A/V Snob "soldonandy"?)


Not an a problem... it's just "common sense".


What's there to argue? If you have the money, buy 'whatever' and think you hear an improvement, super!

Go back to the $20K forum.
And enjoy your Bose and Sherwood setup hooked up with patch cords. I sincerely hope one day you have the chance to experience high end so that you know what SoldonAndy, myself and others are talking about.

And you should get together with Krabapple, Speco, Targus for your poor man's party dancing next to your Bose. :)

I will head over to the $20k forum now.
post #152 of 458
Quote:
And you should get together with Krabapple, Speco, Targus for your poor man's party dancing next to your Bose
You're really a sore loser, aren't you?

BTW, a friend of mine, a psychology major, is using your posts in a paper she's writing....can't remember what she called you, but you're a classic, almost textbook, example of...something...it's not very complementary. ;)
post #153 of 458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus
You're really a sore loser, aren't you?

BTW, a friend of mine, a psychology major, is using your posts in a paper she's writing....can't remember what she called you, but you're a classic, almost textbook, example of...something...it's not very complementary. ;)
:eek:
kindly send me a copy of the paper when she has it published. I would love to read it.

Just a friendly reminder that you need to take those drug your shrink presrcibed for you every morning. You hallucinating again.
post #154 of 458
why do I get the feeling that this thread is gonna get shut down real soon?
post #155 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
Seems like a lot of you just post on this forum to "win" an argument. Guess ones need an exit when you cant win on the domestic front.

And thanks for correcting me that krabapple only has seed and not nuts as if I dont know. Guess thats another arguement you win. Congrats

Lets go back to arguing over cables only, shall we ?
For the record, nuts, like apples, are seed-bearing fruits...dry ones.

The comedic possibilities are endless, as you see.
post #156 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
And enjoy your Bose and Sherwood setup hooked up with patch cords. I sincerely hope one day you have the chance to experience high end so that you know what SoldonAndy, myself and others are talking about.

And you should get together with Krabapple, Speco, Targus for your poor man's party dancing next to your Bose. :)

Wrongmb, I'm guessing I can afford anything you can. But I choose to buy AV gear rationally, based on my needs and on things that are proven to make a difference...which for some reason tend to be less pricey. Then I have that much more to spend on all the other really outrageously expensive pleasures New York City has to offer (like $8 beers).
post #157 of 458
Well, I do give wongmb credit for having the balls to post his experience. That took a fair amount of guts knowing he'd get hammered pretty hard.

I thought about Ethan's comments regarding comb filtering but my gut feeling in wongmb's case is that it's probably not the case unless his room is pathologically bad or that the listener just happened to be sitting differently enough that issues of nulls truly became the issue. He's got some room treatments in there...maybe not the right ones or maybe not in the best or better locations, but he's done something and I doubt it's been to the detriment. This is why I try to nudge and prod him into embarking on a learning curve with regards to measurements.

Hi-end, mid-fi, entry level, revealing, and all that becomes oh so subjective and is so often tied to what one's budget was. As satisfied and proud you are of what you own, there's always someone out there more than willing to drive-by and piss on your choice. Tweaking in the sense of cables, treatments, contact enhancers, fancy outlets, lifts, special shelves, etc. are a way that many people use to create a magical force field that deflects the piss.

Unfortunately, there aren't enough reviewers out there who are comfortable in correctly interpreting measurements or who understand basic and fundamental issue regarding how our auditory system works. For that matter, there aren't that many people on the flip side. At least in most of our earlier education, some teacher showed us how our eyes can play tricks on us, how sensations of hot and cold can be tied to the environment that one's in, and so forth. With hearing...I don't remember any experiments. Realizing that one isn't in complete control of one's senses can be disconcerting.
post #158 of 458
Try happy hour krabapple :D
post #159 of 458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple
Wrongmb, I'm guessing I can afford anything you can. But I choose to buy AV gear rationally, based on my needs and on things that are proven to make a difference...which for some reason tend to be less pricey. Then I have that much more to spend on all the other really outrageously expensive pleasures New York City has to offer (like $8 beers).
This thread is never intended to be a debate of whos wallet is bigger or whose listening skill is better. As the first very post suggest, I host a casual listening session for Mikeyc and at the end he is quite surprised of the result whats causing it. From there on, the usual crowd jumps in and criticize everything from how its flawed (even though it was never intended to be real test) and how its all in the head, etc, etc. The last two pages became nut comparision and I became a snob cuz I choose to spend some money on exotic cables and should stay in the $20k+ forum.

The only real benefit after 6 pages is when Ethan describe the null effect (which I dont think is the real cause and Mikeyc can add to this) and Chu Gai's comment on having my room's measured. The other posts are totally useless and garbage, as is the case of most threads that discuss cable, tweaks etc.
post #160 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
This thread is never intended to be a debate of whos wallet is bigger or whose listening skill is better.
Sorry sport, but you have many times criticized other's choices on gear. You have also made mention about the price and quality of your gear. So, your wallet becomes an issue. You have your 'fan club' that is as wong or right as everyone else.

Quote:
The other posts are totally useless and garbage, as is the case of most threads that discuss cable, tweaks etc.
But your posts and reasoning are not? Discussion is good. This and the previous threads have essentially proven that no one (except your 'fan club') is laying down and accepting your persistent sermons for exotic 'tweaks' without basis.

IMO... if you have the $$, have fun. But, don't insinuate that these "tweaks" are the panacea for great listening improvement(s). No matter the cost...
post #161 of 458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman
Sorry sport, but you have many times criticized other's choices on gear. You have also made mention about the price and quality of your gear. So, your wallet becomes an issue. You have your 'fan club' that is as wong or right as everyone else.
IMO... if you have the $$, have fun. But, don't insinuate that these "tweaks" are the panacea for great listening improvement(s). No matter the cost...
I was asked to list my gear and I did. The money I spent on it is peanuts compare to what I consider to be the real high-end. But at the same time, you can condemn me of snobbish but I will still laugh when someone boast about their Bose.

One can upgrade their equipment (speakers, cdp, etc) or one can choose to use better cables first to see if it makes a difference. There is no one-for-all solution, and certainly does not make you more right when you insist all cables sound the same.

But I will repeat that someone looking for upgrades should give your equipment a chance to show you what its capable of by using proper cables, etc.

And for those who listen to music thru a $100 DVD player, they will never have any clue what real audio sounds like.
post #162 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai
Tweaking in the sense of cables, treatments, contact enhancers, fancy outlets, lifts, special shelves, etc. are a way that many people use to create a magical force field that deflects the piss.
Surely the truly dedicated audiophile could afford one of these?

http://www.lisa.org.au/images/j2_forcefield.jpg
post #163 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
This thread is never intended to be a debate of whos wallet is bigger or whose listening skill is better.
And yet time and again, you resort to just those sorts of arguments.


Quote:
As the first very post suggest, I host a casual listening session for Mikeyc and at the end he is quite surprised of the result whats causing it. From there on, the usual crowd jumps in and criticize everything from how its flawed (even though it was never intended to be real test) and how its all in the head, etc, etc.
Yes, and those arguments have to do with *test setup* skills and *inference from data* skills, which you inexplicably still lack, despite have been through this sort of debate time and again.



Quote:
The last two pages became nut comparision and I became a snob cuz I choose to spend some money on exotic cables and should stay in the $20k+ forum.

The only real benefit after 6 pages is when Ethan describe the null effect (which I dont think is the real cause and Mikeyc can add to this) and Chu Gai's comment on having my room's measured. The other posts are totally useless and garbage, as is the case of most threads that discuss cable, tweaks etc.
You see what you want to see, just like you hear what you want to hear. Shocking.
post #164 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb

And for those who listen to music thru a $100 DVD player, they will never have any clue what real audio sounds like.
Well, 'real audio' would be real sound in real space. I'm sure most people have a clue what that sounds like.

But I'm betting you believe you simply can't get high-quality audio from a $100 DVD player.

Prove it.
post #165 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
I was asked to list my gear and I did.
Whoopee! I've had my gear listed since I registered. I only asked... never criticized. You 'buddy' soldonandy decided to slag me for my gear, insinuating that the gear I own doesn't qualify me to have a technical opinion. You... jumped on the bandwagon and continue to throw out barbs. IMO... that's snobbish and immature. Tell where I'm wong with that observation.

Quote:
The money I spent on it is peanuts compare to what I consider to be the real high-end. But at the same time, you can condemn me of snobbish but I will still laugh when someone boast about their Bose.
Bully for you! I really don't care. You apparently consider cost makes your system better. Enjoy....

As for the Bose bash... get in line. I've never "boasted" about Bose in any of your threads. So, don't twist your facts.

Quote:
But I will repeat that someone looking for upgrades should give your equipment a chance to show you what its capable of by using proper cables, etc.
I agree... spend ~10% of the total cost of your gear on cables.

Quote:
And for those who listen to music thru a $100 DVD player, they will never have any clue what real audio sounds like.
See???? Another snobbish remark. And... no 'respectable' A/V enthusiast would listen to music on a DVD player. They would have a dedicated CD player for music. :eek:
post #166 of 458
If it keeps my sister in law from calling at 6 am on a saturday in january and asking if it's snowing by me, I'll buy it.
post #167 of 458
Quote:
But I will repeat that someone looking for upgrades should give your equipment a chance to show you what its capable of by using proper cables, etc.
The thing is using engineering considerations, it's pretty easy to both make and buy any number of cables that meet the definition of 'proper'.
post #168 of 458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman
I agree... spend ~10% of the total cost of your gear on cables.
Why ~10% and not 5% or 50% ? Prove it. :) And dont retreat to the 'common sense' argument.

Assume you are married and did buy your lady a rock, did u actually spend 2 months of your salary on the engagement ring as most people would suggest ?
post #169 of 458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple
Well, 'real audio' would be real sound in real space. I'm sure most people have a clue what that sounds like.

But I'm betting you believe you simply can't get high-quality audio from a $100 DVD player.

Prove it.
I already proved it by connecting my $200 Sony DVD player digital out to my Anthem pre-pro. And it sounds worse than my dedicated cdp. But I guess it wont count in your dictionary since I did not do a DBT and no data to back up that claim. Relax
post #170 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple
Well, 'real audio' would be real sound in real space. I'm sure most people have a clue what that sounds like.

But I'm betting you believe you simply can't get high-quality audio from a $100 DVD player.

Prove it.
I am going to pick up a cheap (probably <$60) DVD player and A/B it with my dedicated CD player just to see if I can hear a difference. I will report my results . :)
post #171 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
I already proved it by connecting my $200 Sony DVD player digital out to my Anthem pre-pro. And it sounds worse than my dedicated cdp. But I guess it wont count in your dictionary since I did not do a DBT and no data to back up that claim. Relax
It is physically impossible for their to have been a difference, due to the fact that you used the digital output (the DAC in your Anthem was processing the data from both players.) Had you used the analog outs, and gotten the same result, then you would have a valid claim.
post #172 of 458
Quote:
Assume you are married and did buy your lady a rock, did u actually spend 2 months of your salary on the engagement ring as most people would suggest ?
What price is fair if you know the divorce rate is 60%? :D

BTW, was that digital outs on both or analog out on one?
post #173 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmb
Why ~10% and not 5% or 50% ? Prove it. :) And dont retreat to the 'common sense' argument.

Assume you are married and did buy your lady a rock, did u actually spend 2 months of your salary on the engagement ring as most people would suggest ?
It is a "common guideline" that has been suggested on many forums.

I assume you are not married or live with a "partner" and are D.I.N.K.S.
Why do insist on nonsense insults? Especially those that have nothing to do whatsoever with the thread topic?

Thirty years ago, I bought my wife a ring for sentiment and we purchased what was practical, affordable at the time and used our common sense with price. She still wears it.

Your childish retorts are quite boring and only display your lack of technical reasoning.
post #174 of 458
Quote:
You're really a sore loser, aren't you?
Since when did posting on a forum become a competition? Guess what... none of you are going to magically sway wongmb's opinion via forum posts. In fact, I can never recall an instance where a cable enthusiast has "seen the light".

Quote:
did u actually spend 2 months of your salary on the engagement ring as most people would suggest ?
Most people like DeBeers?
post #175 of 458
Quote:
Since when did posting on a forum become a competition?
Since wong made it one.

Quote:
none of you are going to magically sway wongmb's opinion via forum posts.
Nor is he going to sway our opinions...despite his backpeddling.

Quote:
In fact, I can never recall an instance where a cable enthusiast has "seen the light".
That just means that they refuse to accept evidence presented to them...nothing new.
post #176 of 458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM
It is physically impossible for their to have been a difference, due to the fact that you used the digital output (the DAC in your Anthem was processing the data from both players.) Had you used the analog outs, and gotten the same result, then you would have a valid claim.
Another classic example when objectivists like yourself that just spray your bullets blindly. Reread my post. I never said I was using the Anthem's DAC in both cases. Yet you just yack away just to support your view point, dont you ?

I compared my dvd player feeding to my Anthem thru digital out against my dedicated cdp's analog out. And I am already given the dvd player an upper hand cuz the Anthem obviously has a better DAC. Yet my dedicated cdp still beats that combo hands down.

Next time, get ALL the facts before jumping to conclusion.
post #177 of 458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman
It is a "common guideline" that has been suggested on many forums.
Vow. Just because it is a "common guideline" and has been suggested by many forums, it must be right.

There are also countless cable manufacturers, website and reviewers that posts positive improvement with cables. So that must be right too !

And your assumption is wrong. If I was not married, why would I even care about the 2 months guideline ? Isnt that common sense ?

But I havent been married for 30 years like you. You must be in your 50s. Yet your post suggest someone much younger.
post #178 of 458
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai
BTW, was that digital outs on both or analog out on one?
Once again, you demonstrate you are the only one who has a sensible mind.


Regarding engagement rock, all that I know is the 2 months guideline for the engagement rock is just some clever marketing ploy to make you spend more. If I follow that rule, my wife's rock would have been "HUGE".

Yet our half breed human being said its a "common guideline" and recommends our fellow AVS members to follow the guideline. :rolleyes:
post #179 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM
I am going to pick up a cheap (probably <$60) DVD player and A/B it with my dedicated CD player just to see if I can hear a difference. I will report my results . :)
I picked up a Toshiba for $49 a few months ago...

BTW, it'll be one of the transports when I start playing with my Analog Devices AD1955-based DAC eval board that is shipping tomorrow. 5 months, BTW, after I ordered it...
post #180 of 458
[quote=wongmb]I already proved it by connecting my $200 Sony DVD player digital out to my Anthem pre-pro. And it sounds worse than my dedicated cdp.

You call that proof? I call it a biased observation and perception of dubious merit.


But I guess it wont count in your dictionary since I did not do a DBT and no data to back up that claim. Relax

It won't count in any one's dictionary who wants reliable outcome.
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