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Xbox 360 as HD DVD Player: One and Only thread Here - Page 2

post #31 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

So, if I use VGA on my 360 for this new player, can I leave the VGA connected all the time or do games suffer from quality? Is VGA a step down from component? Will my games look as good on my high def TV? (My TV is 720p not 1080p). Just curious on what I should do because I would like this to also upconvert my SD DVDs and I am in the market for a DVD player but don't want to but an upconverting DVD player and a high def player. Been leaning towards the 360 drive since I have a 360 already. When its released, if it sucks, I'll buy the Toshiba instead.

So, with this VGA, confused, you actually use VGA for high definition (yes my TV has a VGA port). Help, confused, thanks.

In theory, VGA should be just a bit better in terms of the color signal but in reality it depends on the VGA vs the Component inputs on your display so you have to try it out for yourself.

Over VGA 360 will upscale your regular dvds, over component it will not due to dvd license restrictions.
post #32 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by govschmo View Post

Live silver is free and you can get updates, but living in the stix, I am only now getting Comcast digital in the area, and no FIOS or DSL yet.

I'm curious. Do you not have an internet connection at all or don't have broadband ? Doesn't live work over dial up ?
post #33 of 4781
My 2 cents..

Decided to upgrade to 360 on the day the PS3 comes out. Not a huge gamer..have about 20 XBOX titles I guess. Still I thought this might be my chance for an additional pro HD-DVD statement. Of course I'll have to get the HD add-on too.

Cheers.
post #34 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

I'm curious. Do you not have an internet connection at all or don't have broadband ? Doesn't live work over dial up ?


Live has always been broadband only since day one with the XBOX. You are thinking of the PS2
post #35 of 4781
Now if Micosoft will only announce that you can connect the xbox 360 add on HD DVD Drive to your pc and add the player software AND if you have the right graphics card connected to your hd tv, then Sony will really be in trouble. Not only would Microsoft be selling into the Xbox 360 5 million plus market but tens millions of PC's

The sub 200 dollar price will definitely put the pressure on Sony

John
post #36 of 4781
From what I've read the 1080p output is for games only (and yes they'll slow down just like PC gaming). The HD DVD connects to Xbox via USB, and I suspect you'll likely get at best 720p output for unprotected content. It wouldn't surprise me if most content (protected), will downscale on the output to XBox and subsequently to TV at 480p. This is what you get without HDCP/HDMI.
post #37 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasemp View Post

Right now I have an Intercooler hooked up to my 360 and the whole setup is just too loud for most movies. I'm excited by the prospect of this addon at this price, so much so that it's made my hunt for an upscaling dvd player moot for the time being, but, I'd consider this drive less than ideal if the noise issues persist.

This is one reason I opted for the XA1. I don't know if it is just my 360, but in my opinion, the 360 is too loud for movies. Maybe it will play quieter during HD-DVD playback since it's own drive is not running. I had my 360 replaced once under warranty. I swear my first one wasn't as loud as this one. I've debated calling support and seeing about the fan noise.

Other than that, my 360 has been awesome!!!
post #38 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoo View Post

From what I've read the 1080p output is for games only (and yes they'll slow down just like PC gaming). The HD DVD connects to Xbox via USB, and I suspect you'll likely get at best 720p output for unprotected content. It wouldn't surprise me if most content (protected), will downscale on the output to XBox and subsequently to TV at 480p. This is what you get without HDCP/HDMI.

HD-DVD movies will output at 1080p.....

Quote:


Right now there is a big question of HDMI connectivity -- an alternative to component connections it's an all-digital audio/video interface capable of transmitting uncompressed streams -- Microsoft said they have nothing to announce, but are considering the possibility.

We pressed this issue and asked if Microsoft is concerned about the fact that the Image Constraint Toke (ICT) component of HDCP/AACS copy-protection won't work over component video connections, which could make the X360 HD-DVD drive useless sometime in the future if the copy-protection scheme is fully implemented in HD-DVDs.

Microsoft replied via email:

"The image constraint token feature of AACS is an optional flag for the [motion picture] studios and several have publicly stated they have no plans to invoke [the copy-protection flags]. Therefore, the copy protection scheme is fully implemented in both HD DVD and Blu-ray today.

"We [Microsoft Corporation] do not see the absence of HDMI/HDCP as an issue over the lifetime of this generation of [the X360] console. HDMI/HDCP is still a very new interface and until it is supported broadly across the CE and PC industries and by consumers on a wide enough scale to be considered a standard, we don't expect anyone to impede content flow over non-HDMI devices (re: invoke the ICT)."

One Microsoft rep told us that "Let us [Microsoft] worry about that. The consumer shouldn't have to worry about that!"

Until we are actually able to plug it in and power it up that's all we know about this handy little peripheral. If you're an X360 owner and want to play HD-DVD movies this winter Microsoft seems to have designed the smartest and cheapest way to do just that.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/733/733328p1.html
post #39 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBrooks1 View Post

HD-DVD movies will output at 1080p.....

No- the article you've posted is lipservice- it's a tapdance around the real subject in question, which has nothing to do with ICT. The broader AACS spec disallows anything beyond 1080i/60 over an analog connection regardless of whether ICT is turned on or off. This is already established and in place. If it were ICT that we were worried about, we'd be talking about dowsampling the image to 960x540 over analog connections, not 1080i/60.

This thread covers this topic in much more detail: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=675595
post #40 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberry View Post

No- the article you've posted is lipservice- it's a tapdance around the real subject in question, which has nothing to do with ICT. The broader AACS spec disallows anything beyond 1080i/60 over an analog connection regardless of whether ICT is turned on or off. This is already established and in place. If it were ICT that we were worried about, we'd be talking about dowsampling the image to 960x540 over analog connections, not 1080i/60.

This thread covers this topic in much more detail: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=675595

Than how do you explain all of the Toshiba A1 owners sending HD-DVD signals at 1080i/720p over component cables? I have heard that DVD's can't be upconverted except over HDMI but maybe microsoft paid their way to not follow that spec since the fall update is supposed to allow DVDs to also be upconverted over component to 1080p/1080i/720p.
post #41 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by micah3sixty View Post

Than how do you explain all of the Toshiba A1 owners sending HD-DVD signals at 1080i/720p over component cables?

Huh?

1080i and 720p are allowed over analog per AACS spec- it's 1080p that isn't.
post #42 of 4781
September 20, 2006 - According to an official release by Microsoft at its Tokyo Game Show 2006 press briefing, the Xbox 360 will be able to support 1080p games and videos. According to the press release, the fall update will usher in the upgraded resolution capability.



"[Microsoft's] fall software update, scheduled for release later this year, will allow all Xbox 360 consoles around the world to output game and movie content in 1080p resolution."

According to representatives from Microsoft, the update will allow for all existing X360 titles to be upscaled to 1080p. The Xbox 360 HD-DVD player will not be required for 1080p playback, since the update will be available through Xbox Live. However, those who purchase the player when it releases will get an installation disc with the update on it.

Which games will be released in the future that will support the higher resolution is still unannounced. We were told by Microsoft's PR company, "As with all Xbox 360 games, we've leave it up to the discretion of the developer to decide how best they'd like their games to be delivered to consumers."

1080p is a visual upgrade over the Xbox 360's current maximum resolution output of 1080i, or 1920 by 1080 interlaced. We'll update as more details become available.
post #43 of 4781
Well, how many HDTV's support 1080P over component?
post #44 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

If the price is under $200, I'll be picking it up.

I'm betting $150. Everything is more expensive in Japan and we've been hearing rumors about MS doing thing to hit this one out of the park. That would be a great price to do it.
post #45 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian M View Post

September 20, 2006 - According to an official release by Microsoft at its Tokyo Game Show 2006 press briefing, the Xbox 360 will be able to support 1080p games and videos. According to the press release, the fall update will usher in the upgraded resolution capability.



"[Microsoft's] fall software update, scheduled for release later this year, will allow all Xbox 360 consoles around the world to output game and movie content in 1080p resolution."

According to representatives from Microsoft, the update will allow for all existing X360 titles to be upscaled to 1080p. The Xbox 360 HD-DVD player will not be required for 1080p playback, since the update will be available through Xbox Live. However, those who purchase the player when it releases will get an installation disc with the update on it.

Which games will be released in the future that will support the higher resolution is still unannounced. We were told by Microsoft's PR company, "As with all Xbox 360 games, we've leave it up to the discretion of the developer to decide how best they'd like their games to be delivered to consumers."

1080p is a visual upgrade over the Xbox 360's current maximum resolution output of 1080i, or 1920 by 1080 interlaced. We'll update as more details become available.

Look very carefully at how this is worded. Nowhere does it say that you'll see 1080p output for the HD DVD player- it says you'll get it for "games and movie content." "Movie content" could simply mean XBL video downloads and/or Media Center content from your PC. And, of course, you will get 1080p output over VGA- so it's not technically incorrect for an MS rep to say that the 360's HD DVD add-on will output at 1080p- it just gives you an incomplete picture of reality.

I don't know how else to put it. I've already provided a link to a very detailed thread that covers this subject on this very forum. AACS does not allow for 1080p output over analog connections. The HD DVD drive for the 360 will have to comply with AACS standards.

What else needs to be said?
post #46 of 4781
When it comes down to it, 1080p doesn't really matter to me and wont for a long time. At least this addon will get me into HD-DVD at a cheap cost and put my 720p/1080i Panasonic AE900 projector to good home theater use on top of the game and xbl use it already gets and the fall update will give me a free upconverting DVD player. No need to druel after the Oppo anymore.
post #47 of 4781
Video of 360 HD DVD playing Fast & Furious 3 Tokyo Drift. Shows iHD (or should I say HDi) action along with PiP action.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/clips/c...ion-202018.php

I'm guessing the xbox360 will also output 1080p via HDMI when the revised 360 (still no hd dvd internal) comes out. I'm guessing we won't hear anything until CES...but that's my guess.
post #48 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by chap View Post

They actually only announced Japanese info. They still have yet to announce an American street date (which really bothers me. Yes I know its a Japanese trade show but you MUST know when you are going to release in NA by now). For all we know they could just release all there units in Japan, and we may not get any till next year. I doubt it, but you never know.

The other thing that I am still wondering about is the price. Its about $177 there, but there core system is also only $250 with a game while ours is $300 with nothing. Of course we coudl get a price reduction soon also if we are lucky.


hmm i suspect the american street date to be 17 Nov (to explain why Endgadget announce a "wrong date" for Japan launch after an interview with the XBox 360 people)". Endgadget announced 17 Nov for Japan launch then Reuter announced that its 22 Nov. Maybe Endgadget was mistakenly given the wrong date !!!!

Quote:


Now if Micosoft will only announce that you can connect the xbox 360 add on HD DVD Drive to your pc and add the player software AND if you have the right graphics card connected to your hd tv, then Sony will really be in trouble. Not only would Microsoft be selling into the Xbox 360 5 million plus market but tens millions of PC's

The sub 200 dollar price will definitely put the pressure on Sony

John

It has been widely reported that the HD DVD add on is compatible with XP Media Center Edition. I dunno whether the whole XBox 360 compatible with XP Media Center therefor, the Add On will also be compatible or that a standalone HD DVD add on would also be compatible with XP Media Center.

anyhow if its priced at $170, it will create 'impulsive' buy where people are already saying that they intend to the the add on just to stripe the HD DVD drive to a build HTPC.

The question is now HOW MANY units MS intend to put in the market at launch and till eoy and by March 2007. AmirM mentioned in several occasions that XBox 360 Add On, Toshiba and PS3 will lead in term of hardware number.
post #49 of 4781
Why is the launch only announced in Japan? The 360 has a small presence in Japan where it is a very distant second (third?) to the PS2. I'm wondering if the US launch is going to occur at a similar time but it is just not announced yet, or if they are deliberately releasing the HD DVD add on in a small market that will not cannabilize diodes for dedicated HD DVD players in the rest of the world. The benefit is that an HD DVD 360 release somewhere offers a counter argument to the PS3 release, which if we believe current reports will be available in very limited quantity in November. Is this just a marketing/PR move?
post #50 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctakim View Post

Why is the launch only announced in Japan? The 360 has a small presence in Japan where it is a very distant second (third?) to the PS2. I'm wondering if the US launch is going to occur at a similar time but it is just not announced yet, or if they are deliberately releasing the HD DVD add on in a small market that will not cannabilize diodes for dedicated HD DVD players in the rest of the world. The benefit is that an HD DVD 360 release somewhere offers a counter argument to the PS3 release, which if we believe current reports will be available in very limited quantity in November. Is this just a marketing/PR move?

MSFT will announce deatails for the North American and European launch next week at X06.
post #51 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanb61 View Post

MSFT will announce deatails for the North American and European launch next week at X06.

Great news, thanks!
post #52 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by necrolop View Post

Read the Press release. he states "60 Mega Pixels per second"

720p60 = 60 mp/s
1080i60 = 60 mp/s
1080p30 = 60mp/s

BUT

1080p60= 120mp/s

Am I missing something here? In his statement he then states that the 360 will NOT do 1080p. If there is indeed 1080p output, Im sure it will be pullup for movies, probably not games.


Dude......How many threads are you going to post this in........You look it up for yourself!!
post #53 of 4781
From the industry insiders thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

1080p is supported over VGA for DVD, HD DVD and gaming output. And yes, AACS does allow 1080p over VGA (classified under authorized "computer monitor outputs").

For component, you get gaming up to 1080p, and 1080i for HD DVD. DVD only works at 480p over this connection. The latter two are due to restrictions in DVD CCA and AACS rules for DVD and HD DVD playback respectively.

On gaming, the machine supports both scaling of 720p games to 1080p, and native games running at 1080p resolution. It is up to game developers to decide which way to go.
post #54 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linux23 View Post

Well, how many HDTV's support 1080P over component?

Quite a few projectors do. For eg panny ae900 supports all these over component.

Quote:


YPBPR signals: 525i (480i), 525p (480p), 625i (576i),
625p (576p), 1 125 (1 080)/60i,
1 125 (1 080)/50i, 1 125 (1 080)/24p,
750 (720)/60p, 750 (720)/50p
post #55 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Live has always been broadband only since day one with the XBOX. You are thinking of the PS2

While dialup is not officially supported, nothing stops you from connecting your pc / lan to internet over dialup and then access live from xbox. Ofcourse you can't game much because of lag & bandwidth, but for firmware updates it should work. I've not done this personally but if you seach "xbox live dialup" you will see a lot of people have done this.
post #56 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Quite a few projectors do. For eg panny ae900 supports all these over component.

I know projectors tend to support VGA anyway since often they are used for PC connections so the 360 1080p will be supported there. The VGA did add little better PQ and sd dvd upscaling on my own dlp projector.

I know some friends use PC's / VGA on their microdisplay HDTV's as well.

With standar dvd upscaling and now true 1080p output it appears that VGA might be now the optimal connection for Xbox 360 (or base Model PS3?). Do most 1080p capable HDTV's support a VGA connection or hdmi/component only?
post #57 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Do most 1080p capable HDTV's support a VGA connection or hdmi/component only?

I think most of the HDTVs do have a VGA connection - whether or not they support 1080p. Initial reports on last year's Samsung models were that they supported 1080p input via VGA/component but not thr' HDMI.
post #58 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travisimo View Post

Isn't that $177 price the Japanese price converted to dollars? If so, then that doesn't necessarily mean it will be that price in NA. More than likely, it will be $199.99 here, but there hasn't been an announcement here yet (probably during the upcoming X06 conference).

EDIT:

I also wanted to add that I have a Toshiba HD-A1 on the way. I was originally going to get the 360 drive, but I changed my mind because of the following reasons:
  • The HD-A1 has a great SD upscaler whereas the 360 drive can only upscale via VGA (unless they do release an HDMI cable at some point for the 360)
  • The HD-A1 has analog audio outputs so I can enjoy TrueHD sound
  • If I use my 360 for games and movies and there is a hardware failure on the 360, I wouldn't be able to play games OR watch HD-DVD's
  • The 360 HD-DVD playback quality has not been proven yet. Will it be as good as the HD-A1? Will it be faster? Still a lot of questions unanswered.

All that said, if the 360 drive is $200 or less, I might pick one of them up as well as the HD-A1!

Those are reasons, but I'm thinking they're kind of soft ones. And like you said, for the price, might just have to pick one up.

If you get both, I'd really like to see a post on how a side by side comparison is from your standpoint.
post #59 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post

Those are reasons, but I'm thinking they're kind of soft ones. And like you said, for the price, might just have to pick one up.

If you get both, I'd really like to see a post on how a side by side comparison is from your standpoint.

Yeah, if I get both I'll definitely post about any differences I see/hear. If the 360 drive comes in at $200 or less here, I'll most likely get it.
post #60 of 4781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Do most 1080p capable HDTV's support a VGA connection or hdmi/component only?

HDMI is becoming the standard 1080p connection; only a very few sets support 1080p VGA (and the Samsung's don't do true 1080p input, but chop and overscan). The forthcoming 1080p Sharps don't do 1080p VGA; nor does the just released Sony V2500's, but the XBR2/3's do.

A digital 1080p HDMI (which by HDMI's specs, will also support DVI->HDMI) is a must have on any 1080p hdtv. I'd even avoid a purchase of a new graphics card that didn't have an HDMI, because a DVI likely won't support HDCP -- it can but few do;whereas HDMI always does.

Also having an analog 1080p input is a nice-to-have (because why not... can't hurt to have extra inputs), but it's really becoming a legacy connection. And with DRM and HDCP, an analog 1080p can't be counted on to work as 1080p w/ 1080p sources in the future.

That MS chose to release an xbox 360 add-on that supports 1080p only on analog outputs is just plain weird; contrary to where things are moving; and which will only benefit a small subset (owners of sets that can handle 1080p VGA or component) of a small subset (owners of 1080p sets). And since games aren't going to be 1080p for some time... those benefits shrink to the empty set. It's one of the silliest, most irrelevant releases I've come across. By it's ridiculous nature, it only draws attention to an unfavorable comparison w/ the ps3 and br. (and I'm not anti hd-dvd -- will get an A2 -- or a br fan).
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