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'Jericho' on CBS - Page 102

post #3031 of 3245
I guess I am just upset that one of the few shows out there that actually required a brain to watch and understand...that made you "think" about things is gone.

Jericho and BSG are two of my favorite shows because not only are they well made in terms of quality/acting but they make you think about things that are not necessarily part of the show. Thats what good fiction beit SciFi or not is about...at least to me.

Jericho brought up all sorts of interesting questions to ponder...both on a global/national level and a personal level. Each time a character had a rough moment...i,e Stanly...I found myself asking "What would I do?".

BSG is a bit less personal...but still makes you ask questions about morality, etc.

Shows Like CSI, etc..although well made and well acted...are not really a thinkers show...I mean you think about who did it...but thats about it...They are hardly a thinking persons show. There are only so many ways you can tell the same murder story and how its solved over and over again.

Now my the other part of my brain...likes shows like 24...where I just like watching someone kick butt...no matter how unrealistic it may be.
post #3032 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

'The Closer' gets upwards of 6-7 million each week and it doesn't have anywhere near the cult appeal of 'Jericho'.

Nope, that didn't work before (it seldom does). It's very difficult to persuade others to watch something you find great, Heaven knows I've tried with such stellar fare as BSG and failed to garner new recruits. No, like I've said before, the 'Jericho' audience is down to the hard-core who will watch it, and follow it, anywhere. And that would comprise at least 4 million. But on CBS it would have needed 10-12 million and that wasn't possible.

I've also seen The Closer advertised as the highest rated cable show of all time. You really think Jericho would come in like some sort of network TV bully and just destroy the ratings of all other cable networks?

Just think about it this way - if you were right every single cable network would be chomping at the bit to pick up Jericho. Heard any credible rumors about *ANY* cable network being interested?
post #3033 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

I guess I am just upset that one of the few shows out there that actually required a brain to watch and understand...that made you "think" about things is gone.

Jericho and BSG are two of my favorite shows because not only are they well made in terms of quality/acting but they make you think about things that are not necessarily part of the show. Thats what good fiction beit SciFi or not is about...at least to me.

Jericho brought up all sorts of interesting questions to ponder...both on a global/national level and a personal level. Each time a character had a rough moment...i,e Stanly...I found myself asking "What would I do?".

BSG is a bit less personal...but still makes you ask questions about morality, etc.

Shows Like CSI, etc..although well made and well acted...are not really a thinkers show...I mean you think about who did it...but thats about it...They are hardly a thinking persons show. There are only so many ways you can tell the same murder story and how its solved over and over again.

Now my the other part of my brain...likes shows like 24...where I just like watching someone kick butt...no matter how unrealistic it may be.

There is a distinction between Jericho and BSG. The BSG series was good from the beginning (I'm referring to season 1, not the mini-series).

No matter what, Jericho did suffer from that stretch of 10 awful season 1 eps prior to the hiatus where the focus was only on drama in the city, such as Gracie, the dork boy, and his girlfriend.

People decide early on if they are going to stick with a show, and Jericho was bad from the third episode until the hiatus. If Jericho had been season 2 good in the stretch I am referring to, this might be a completely different story.
post #3034 of 3245
Carol Barbee (executive producer) has stated 3-4 networks are interested...so yes, I have.
post #3035 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 View Post

There is a distinction between Jericho and BSG. The BSG series was good from the beginning (I'm referring to season 1, not the mini-series).

No matter what, Jericho did suffer from that stretch of 10 awful season 1 eps prior to the hiatus where the focus was only on drama in the city, such as Gracie, the dork boy, and his girlfriend.

People decide early on if they are going to stick with a show, and Jericho was bad from the third episode until the hiatus. If Jericho had been season 2 good in the stretch I am referring to, this might be a completely different story.

Its true that there was a bad stretch there in S1. Not sure who is to blame for that...the creaters or the network...I find it hard to believe that the creaters really wanted to spend all that time on "soap" type crap. I think in todays "market"...if networks do not see immediate results they knee-jerk react. Jericho is one of those type of shows that needs time to grow and develop its viewership...its not the type of show thats an immediate hit with billions of people going gaga over it overnight. Its just not possible these days for that type of show to get the time it needs to develop. Cable seems to allow for more of that but even they are quick to react more and more these days.
post #3036 of 3245
Sad about JERICHO.
post #3037 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

BTW, the CNN cancellation news referenced above is old news. See post 2950.

The news broke Friday afternoon.

Come on now...I posted that and I fail to see how CNN, the world leader in news reporting, could be behind in reporting a story
post #3038 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by tighr View Post

In the interim, CBS still has Big Bang Theory and How I Met Your Mother. Those are the only two shows I watch on CBS other than Jericho.

Then you should hold your breath a bit longer, as though Big Bang Theory has been renewed for next year, How I Met Your Mother is still on the bubble.
post #3039 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhyvven View Post

Come on now...I posted that and I fail to see how CNN, the world leader in news reporting, could be behind in reporting a story

The entertainment reporter took Friday off?
post #3040 of 3245
Jericho was always supposed to be more than just the conspiracy angle and Jake & Hawkins kicking butt. They wanted to deal with the more personal questions too, about how people would react to such a quantum change in their lives, how they would themselves be changed. I've seen a lot of criticism of those episodes, the "soap opera stuff" as many refer to it. But I think that stuff was important as well to the story they were trying to tell. This last 7-ep pod was supposed to be high on action and pyrotechnics to try and make a big splash and lure new viewers in, but it's reasonable to assume that some who enjoyed the more introspective side of the series (including a lot of women, probably) were turned off by that. The producers were trying to tell both stories, but it was the action crowd that raised the Cain and mailed the peanuts. So, it was the action crowd they were playing to, and they probably didn't have the budget they wanted or needed either. But the conspiracy story was just too big and multifaceted to wrap up that quickly and the strain has shown.
post #3041 of 3245
And I just got into this show, with marathon reruns on Uni and Scifi.

Too bad, I thought it was really engaging, intelligently written, with mix of 24 conspiracy and personal drama.

Unfortunately, I seem to discover good shows just as they are being cancelled or afterwards, like Firefly. I'm also watching reruns of Threshold and current eps of Lost. And getting my scifi fix from BBC's Torchwood. Haven't quite figured Lost out, but sort of getting the gist of the backdrop. Will probably buy DVD sets to catch up.
post #3042 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

Its true that there was a bad stretch there in S1. Not sure who is to blame for that...the creaters or the network...I find it hard to believe that the creaters really wanted to spend all that time on "soap" type crap. I think in todays "market"...if networks do not see immediate results they knee-jerk react. Jericho is one of those type of shows that needs time to grow and develop its viewership...its not the type of show thats an immediate hit with billions of people going gaga over it overnight. Its just not possible these days for that type of show to get the time it needs to develop. Cable seems to allow for more of that but even they are quick to react more and more these days.

Its interesting that you say that. 4 years ago, I had heard of this new TV show called Lost about a plane crash on an island, and didn't think much of it. Halfway through the shows 2nd season (during the extended break between episode 9 and 10) a few friends had downloaded all of season 1 and the first half of season 2 from a filesharing website. Had I not watched those, i would still not be watching Lost today (live, and with commercials!)
post #3043 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by tighr View Post

Its interesting that you say that. 4 years ago, I had heard of this new TV show called Lost about a plane crash on an island, and didn't think much of it. Halfway through the shows 2nd season (during the extended break between episode 9 and 10) a few friends had downloaded all of season 1 and the first half of season 2 from a filesharing website. Had I not watched those, i would still not be watching Lost today (live, and with commercials!)

Lucky for you it was a hit show early, or else it may have been cancelled before you even thought about downloading.
post #3044 of 3245
I really enjoyed Jericho, but I think there's a simple reason whey the show could never gain viewers...

It reminds people too much about current events that most people want out of their lives... The Iraq War.

The Ravenwood story line was a brilliant allegory to Blackwater, but people don't want to think about the subject matter, they get hammered with the War and all of it's fallout every night, and are just burned out on the subject matter.

I'm pretty sure it would be programming suicide to create a fictitious show that deals with the in's and out's of Wall Street or economic matters in today's society would tank as well.

For some reason people are more fascinated in "reality" programing where people back stab (Survivor, Big Brother), belittle (American Idol's Simon Cowell) or embarrass (Essentially, The Apprentice and Are You Smatter than a Fifth Grader) people.

I'll give CBS credit for even attempting to revive Jericho in this market place. Kudos to the fans rallying, but the fact that viewership actually went down this year, was proof enough to CBS to kill off the show.

Maybe they can be picked up by a cable network, but would it be cost effective?

fitprod
post #3045 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitprod View Post

Maybe they can be picked up by a cable network, but would it be cost effective?

That, my friend, is the $64k question at the moment. I'm sure Carol Barbee and the heads of the cablenets to whom she's shopping the show are furiously crunching numbers as we speak.
post #3046 of 3245
Jericho beats re-runs of Law & Order, seen over & over for yrs on end. It wasn't perfect, and I most liked episodes when Hawkins was working to figure out the conspiracy and also help Jake & Co, but overall it really held my attention. It took courage to bring a story about the aftermath of a nuclear war to the screen. I hope it can find a new home and continue at least for another season to develop the plot to uncover the shadow govt conspiracy and bring it down. Sort of like seeing who the 5th cylon is

We still have season 4 of BSG to look forward to I can't wait!!!
So say we all.
post #3047 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitprod View Post

I really enjoyed Jericho, but I think there's a simple reason whey the show could never gain viewers...

It reminds people too much about current events that most people want out of their lives... The Iraq War.

I highly doubt it.
post #3048 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitprod View Post

I really enjoyed Jericho, but I think there's a simple reason whey the show could never gain viewers...

...I'm pretty sure it would be programming suicide to create a fictitious show that deals with the in's and out's of Wall Street or economic matters in today's society would tank as well... For some reason people are more fascinated in "reality" programing where people back stab, belittle or embarrass people.

Let me get this straight... viewers don't want to see TV based on reality, they want to see reality based on TV?
post #3049 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

That, my friend, is the $64k question at the moment. I'm sure Carol Barbee and the heads of the cablenets to whom she's shopping the show are furiously crunching numbers as we speak.

I believe technically it would be... Let's see...

$500,000 X 13 Episodes = $6.5 Million or...
$500,000 X 22 Episodes = $11.0 Million



fitprod
post #3050 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by tighr View Post

Let me get this straight... viewers don't want to see TV based on reality, they want to see reality based on TV?

Well considering the Nielsen ratings, it seems so, at least if has a military theme. (Battlestar Galactica excluded since it is technically Sci-Fi...)

Think about it, outside of NCIS and 24 what other military/war based shows have survived the past few years?

Agency (gone); E-Ring (gone); The Unit (on the ropes)

fitprod
post #3051 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

It took courage to bring a story about the aftermath of a nuclear war to the screen.

Especially when you consider that killer robots are the It Girl at the moment. BSG is in great shape. By all account TSCC will be renewed.

Man, if only Jericho had considered a killer robots angle. Maybe Hawkins could have been a vampire FBI agent, too, just to spice things up.

Dammit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

BSG is a bit less personal...but still makes you ask questions about morality, etc.

I do want to take a little exception to the notion that BSG isn't as personal as Jericho. Personal is easier to project inside a farmhouse than inside a spaceship (and, yes, I have Firefly on DVD, so I've seen it done right on a spaceship).

One of the strongest themes in BSG is that Admiral Adama is a commander who leads as a very personal father figure. In fact, the compare and contrast that was done with the Pegasus story arc was largely about the two main approaches to command -- the personal, lead by example style versus the impersonal, imperial style.

This is where Jericho had to suck a lemon for this seven episode wrap-up. Jericho, at its best, was small and personal. Season two completely lost that element. Consider that season two is so impersonal that were are not going to see Phil Constantino face justice. That's just wrong, and it wouldn't have slipped by if the show had a longer season two.

The seven episode wrap-up guaranteed that Jericho couldn't get back to when it worked best: when it was small and personal.
post #3052 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris0 View Post

That's the most interesting post I've read in a while. Thanks. I never would've guessed that someone named "MeowMeow" would be so knowledgeable about paramilitary groups. The way you describe EO it almost sounds like they're a descendant of the EIC.

While these assumptions based on user names are accurate most of the time there are exceptions. Some take my username to assume I am female or homosexual for some reason. The reason I chose my user name is kind of random it was simply what the TV was displaying at the time. Nothing more nothing less.
post #3053 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeowMeow View Post

This isn't dissimilar from how Kellogg, Brown & Root (which provides everything from construction to security contractors) is a separate, and soon to be spun off, part of Halliburton (which provides mostly energy services). However, KBR's services are more construction and facility security.

I hope this post is not deleted by moderators but since you seem very knowlegable about this subject... With regards to I think episode 5 of season 2 regarding the hanging of one ravenwood employee which parallels the hanging of the 4 blackwater employees. Do you think blackwater left them to the wolves because they violated company policy as ravenwood did in this episode?
post #3054 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoon View Post

While these assumptions based on user names are accurate most of the time there are exceptions. Some take my username to assume I am female or homosexual for some reason. The reason I chose my user name is kind of random it was simply what the TV was displaying at the time. Nothing more nothing less.

I wouldn't have thought that about your username. Now if you had chosen "Rainbow" instead then yeah, I'd make assumptions.
post #3055 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoon View Post

While these assumptions based on user names are accurate most of the time there are exceptions. Some take my username to assume I am female or homosexual for some reason. The reason I chose my user name is kind of random it was simply what the TV was displaying at the time. Nothing more nothing less.

See, I would have taken your name to assume you were really really old.
post #3056 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitprod View Post

I believe technically it would be... Let's see...

$500,000 X 13 Episodes = $6.5 Million or...
$500,000 X 22 Episodes = $11.0 Million



fitprod

Don't know where you got your #s from. Season 2 cost $3,000,000 per episode.
post #3057 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by chibul View Post

Don't know where you got your #s from. Season 2 cost $3,000,000 per episode.

I was guessing... Seriously, each episode cost $3 Million a piece? I thought they cut back the budget.

If it really cost over $20 Million for just a 7 Episode season, I don't blame CBS for axing the show with the horrible numbers they were pulling in.

fitprod
post #3058 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoon View Post

Do you think blackwater left them to the wolves because they violated company policy as ravenwood did in this episode?

Nope. I think that's where the parallel stops and things drift into a good fictionalization for the sake ensuring the heroes look like heroes instead of a mob.

That said, it hasn't stopped the families of the contractors from suing.

What Blackwater really ran into in Fallujah is the simple collision of America's Wild West with Iraq's Wild West. By all accounts, Fallujah was a city that even Saddam's goon squads largely avoided, because it is just the kinda place where frontier justice gets out of hand very fast. It's kind of like Gotham if someone had just kindly offed Batman years ago.

If Saddam's guys gave the place a wide berth, it's probably fair to say our guys should have, too. Disappointingly, I suspect history is going to miss that this one, weird moment in time is when the Iraq War turned ugly. Liberals will lose it because they're not going to surrender their larger victory in saying, "See? The whole war was a mess!" Conservatives will miss it because this current batch of conservatives is a bunch of dullards and crooks.

Quote:


If it really cost over $20 Million for just a 7 Episode season, I don't blame CBS for axing the show with the horrible numbers they were pulling in.

They shot the show in six days, IIRC. There's simply no way it even cost that much. Keep in mind a lot of the cost of shows is the initial setup, especially if the show is set intensive. Jericho obviously isn't.

A point of reference is Pushing Daisies, probably the most obviously expensive show on TV. Daisies is rumored to cost over $3 million per episode, and that was enough that ABC pushed Barry Sonnenfeld out of his role as director.

Now, that cost per episode will come down because Daisies reuses a ton of the same sets over and over again. And that's a good thing, because Warner Bros, who makes Daisies, had to lean on ABC for extra cash over the $1.65m they were being paid.

That gives you a sense of what is considered "too expensive" for a TV show. At least enough that you might beat down one of the show's creators for running the show at a friggin loss.

Of course, mind you, Pushing Daisies was one of the first show when the strike started to be told it would be renewed. It's a great show, but from a business standpoint it is almost a loss leader for ABC to say, "See? No one else puts anything like this on TV. All other networks suck. Period."
post #3059 of 3245
I think that's what the producers (Karim Zarik & Dan Shotz) stated the other night on Shaun Daily's Blog Talk Radio show. Said the budget was right around $21 million, and that was cut back a lot.

Personally, it seems like a bit much, honestly.
post #3060 of 3245
Quote:
Originally Posted by chibul View Post

I think that's what the producers (Karim Zarik & Dan Shotz) stated the other night on Shaun Daily's Blog Talk Radio show. Said the budget was right around $21 million, and that was cut back a lot.

Personally, it seems like a bit much, honestly.

$20 million seems to be the commonly mentioned figure around teh internets.

All I can say is wow. If that's true, and there's nothing to controvert it so far, Jericho's producers should be ashamed of the production quality on this season.

If they really felt the need for the tight shooting schedule, they should have brought in one of the lighting gurus of the industry to help. A lot of shots in S2 Jericho are plain substandard.

My opinion of whose fault a lot of this is is changing fast.
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