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Hitachi 65" CRT Projection HDTV (65F59A)

post #1 of 41
9/22/06 at 10:48pm
Thread Starter 
I recently purchased this TV from Circuit City for 1499 with a $150 off coupon and free delivery. Got it home and all setup and am not sure if I am thrilled about the picture quality. I fiddled with the video options of the menu some and got it better but still find the picture to be somewhat grainy and not as sharp as I had hoped. I was curious if others have this model and experienced the same thing or had opinions on what settings worked best for them. I have not tried any of the HD channels yet so not sure how that looks but have tried some DVD's and also my direct tv channels. I have seen other topics on here stating that the TV will take some hours to obtain its optimum picture quality so is that what I am currently experiencing?
Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions would be appreciated.
I like the set and am pleased but I am wondering if this is normal.
I currently have a DVD, DVR and surround sound system attached to it.
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post #2 of 41
9/23/06 at 4:07am
Welcome to the forums. I'd first check the user convergence patterns--a matrix of +'s or similar--to ensure the three CRT beams are overlapping properly. Color fringing and reduced apparent sharpness (fuzzy images) result from poor convergence. You might be able to just eyeball good setting for brightness, contrast, sharpness, etc., but a test DVD such as Avia or DVE helps set up the controls properly. If contrast is too high and images too bright, they'll appear fuzzy and unfocused, while excess sharpness setting adds artifacts and noise.

Often read complaints about the over compression of DirecTV's SD channels and there are many threads/post about their 'HDLite' in the HD programming forum. The quality of input signals varies widely and is a key factor in PQ. If there's a built-in tuner, some OTA SD and HD signals might appear crisp and clear with a simple antenna. DVDs should look good, on average. Most CRT RPTVs let you view 480i SD signals as deinterlaced 480p, avoiding upconversions that overemphasize noise and other artifacts, so try that input mode. HD should provide dramatically better images than SD. Suggest going through menu options to ensure controls are set up correctly for each input. Products this complex require some tinkering initially. PQ settings might slowly 'drift' as circuits age, requiring minor tweaking, but you certainly needn't wait of maximize video quality. -- John
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post #3 of 41
9/23/06 at 6:44am
Lots of info in thread below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7&page=1&pp=30
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post #4 of 41
9/23/06 at 11:11pm
Thread Starter 
And how exactly would I go about checking the convergence patterns. I don't know much about this topic and apparently have bought the wrong television. In an attempt to get the biggest TV for the best value I appear to have sacrificed some quality in the process. I have connected my DVD player using the component cables and after watching a couple movies am very pleased with it's quality and the potential for the TV but after switching back to ESPN (football) quickly become disappointed again in the clarity of the picture.

I have called about the HD receiver for Direct TV and have it being shipped but am still wondering after installing it with the component cables as well will my picture quality improve substantially?

I have also looked around (Best Buy, Sears, Suncoast, Radio Shack) but haven't had much luck with the AVIA DVD. Guess that will be an online purchase but I have been back and forth and up and down with the TV settings and am not sure the DVD will give me the miracle I am hoping for.

Is there anything else I am missing?

Thanks
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post #5 of 41
9/24/06 at 1:10am
yankmccobb, I have a 6 year old Toshiba 65h80 and I am planning on purchasing the 65f59 before they are all gone. I have DirectvHD HR10-250 at home and connected a OTA outside antenna to the HR10-250 and the HD is beautiful. The SD is always going to look suspect on Directv, don't be discouraged. If you can connect an outside antenna to your 65f59, you should be able to get OTA HD locals. My TV is too old to have a HD tuner inside, so I use the HR10-250 to get my locals with an antenna. For the price, the 65f59 is a great deal at $1500. My 65h80 was $3500 when I became an early adopter and it doesn't have HDMI connections. That is why I am purchasing a 65f59 before they are gone, and will wait until the newer technology reaches $1500 before I buy again. I have learned my lesson about being an early adopter with HT equipment. I hope I helped you a little bit and I might suggest a ISF calibration also. Enjoy.
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post #6 of 41
9/24/06 at 3:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankmccobb View Post

And how exactly would I go about checking the convergence patterns. I don't know much about this topic and apparently have bought the wrong television... Is there anything else I am missing?

That's puzzling. Reads like you haven't glanced at the owner's manual. A CRT set and periodic convergence tweaking is basic stuff, and with complex products studying the manual--or just skimming it--is step one. Wasted time here checking NYC stores for an Avia test disc before ordering one from Amazon.com.-- John
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post #7 of 41
9/24/06 at 12:33pm
I was just wondering how big this tv is to scale. Anyone got any pics of it in their living room and some screenshots. As stated in a previous post, I'm getting this tv soon and just want more info.
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post #8 of 41
9/24/06 at 3:48pm
yankmccobb, what color is the 65f59? I talked to a cc employee who said the tv color was light silver but everyone else is saying the tv cabinet is the darker gray.
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post #9 of 41
9/24/06 at 4:40pm
My friend has an older 2004 model of the 57f59 and the picture looks great. Back then hitachi made the tv's with 5 element lens and top of the line CRT guns. I think the new models use 4 element (not sure how big of a difference that would make if any). Also think the crt guns were larger on the older models?

Could it be the new 65" doesn't look as good/clear/etc. because hatichi is using the same size 7" crt's with the 4-element lens system for the 51, 57 & 65 models. In theory you would get the best picture on the 51, midrange on the 57 and so on?

On my other friends older mitsubishi the crt uses 9-inch guns. I just finished watching the Seahawks kill the Giants on an older 2003 Sony KP 65WS500 TV that uses 7" CRT microfocus guns and the picture looked amazing.

Maybe when hatichi gutted the higher end parts to make more money the end result is now a crappy picture at least on the 65"...
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post #10 of 41
9/24/06 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunwaterpool View Post

yankmccobb, what color is the 65f59? I talked to a cc employee who said the tv color was light silver but everyone else is saying the tv cabinet is the darker gray.

If you go to the hitachi website the 65F710A is bright silver and the 65F59 is gray/black.

Is there anyone who owns the 65 inch version of this tv who thinks the picture (be it sd or hdtv) is excellent? It seems the overwhelimg majority of people own the 57 inch version and find the picture to be great.

With no store nearby that has the 65 inch on display all I have to go by is what I have read online and so far it doesn't sound good.
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post #11 of 41
9/24/06 at 6:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunwaterpool View Post

My friend has an older 2004 model of the 57f59 and the picture looks great. Back then hitachi made the tv's with 5 element lens and top of the line CRT guns. I think the new models use 4 element (not sure how big of a difference that would make if any). Also think the crt guns were larger on the older models?

Could it be the new 65" doesn't look as good/clear/etc. because hatichi is using the same size 7" crt's with the 4-element lens system for the 51, 57 & 65 models. In theory you would get the best picture on the 51, midrange on the 57 and so on?

On my other friends older mitsubishi the crt uses 9-inch guns. I just finished watching the Seahawks kill the Giants on an older 2003 Sony KP 65WS500 TV that uses 7" CRT microfocus guns and the picture looked amazing.

Maybe when hatichi gutted the higher end parts to make more money the end result is now a crappy picture at least on the 65"...

I don't think the TV has a crappy picture at all, I watched the DVD "Hard Candy", which was crap by the way, last night and the picture was awesome, everything I could want out of the TV. My problem seems to lie with Direct TV and there SD.
I can't comment on the HD yet but I hopefully will have it installed early next week and notice the difference.

As far as the size that someone asked about, it is basically 5'-0" square and the set I have is the light silver base.
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post #12 of 41
9/24/06 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipsnbeer View Post

If you go to the hitachi website the 65F710A is bright silver and the 65F59 is gray/black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankmccobb View Post

As far as the size that someone asked about, it is basically 5'-0" square and the set I have is the light silver base.

So either yankmccobb has the older 65f710A set or the cc employee was right and the new 65f59's that they are selling are really silver and not the gray/black? But then why would the hitachi website say 65F59 is gray/black?

yankmccobb what model do you have, the 65F710 or the 65f59?
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post #13 of 41
9/24/06 at 6:30pm
Circuit city and Sears seem to be the only dealers on the hitachi website that sell the 65 inch near me. Has anyone purchased this tv from Sears? On the Sears website they only list the 51 inch and 57 inch models?

Also I will be sitting around 11 feet back, will this be enough space to adequately enjoy the 65 inch version of this tv or would the 57 inch better suit my room size?
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post #14 of 41
9/24/06 at 8:29pm
Had the set for 3 days now and i think the picture looks stunning, no overscan, or colour problems, all i've had to do is run the magic focus a few times and everythings seems pretty good.. SD pictures will always seem grainy on a 65 inch set , you're blowing up a poor quality picture so you can see the faults in it a lot more. Still even after saying that i have cox cable and most of my sd stuff still looks pretty damn good, i've watched a couple of sd m,ovies i dvrd off of hbo today and they look pretty good. Watch a dvd "the proposition" and the picture looked stunning. You can so tell the difference between hd and sd stuff, i flicked between the sd and hd pictures for a football game today. On the sd the crowd looked like a bunch of featureless blobs, hd you could make out each person easily. its like night and day. Have my 360 hooked up too and it looks excellent too. The only problem you will have with this set is if you have a bright light shining on it, but if you cut your ambient light its spectacular. Oh by the way mines a dark grey color.
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post #15 of 41
9/24/06 at 9:11pm
I have this TV and so far I love it. However, I have both a digital cable box and a Xbox 360 connected to the set. Each are set to 1080i. And on both, a small portion of the right side of the image is cutoff. I can't find any adjustment in the menus to change the horitzontal settings of the image (bascially I need to shrink it some). Is it not possible?
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post #16 of 41
9/24/06 at 11:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpackee View Post

I have this TV and so far I love it. However, I have both a digital cable box and a Xbox 360 connected to the set. Each are set to 1080i. And on both, a small portion of the right side of the image is cutoff. I can't find any adjustment in the menus to change the horitzontal settings of the image (bascially I need to shrink it some). Is it not possible?


It's overscan, something that you will not be able to correct with a menu adjustment. I believe you need to get into the service menu and really know what you are doing to pull it off. That or just get the TV calibrated.
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post #17 of 41
9/25/06 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by agbguy View Post

SD pictures will always seem grainy on a 65 inch set , you're blowing up a poor quality picture so you can see the faults in it a lot more.

SD via digital cable on my 64" CRT RPTV has looked quite good from day 1 over six years ago. Premium movie channels have always appeared especially good, even with S-video at 480p; more recently, with better cable STBs, I've switched to YPbPr and 1080i STB upconversion.

Agreed, poor sources blown up to 64" will look bad, especially at HD viewing distance (~8' here). A typical poor source IMO is a live Golf Channel match where excess edge enhancement creates a blurry SD mess on screen. More often, a weekend network sports program, with 480i upconverted to 1080i by the network and far higher cable bit rates, looks fine even at 4X3, and of course excellent when it's true 1080i. But cable STB upconversion to 1080i does look better than 480p viewing (S-video) with poorer signals because the finer resolution lessens the coarseness of artifacts. -- John
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post #18 of 41
9/25/06 at 6:48am
Thread Starter 
Well, just in reading the replies to most post alone I realize that I am way in over my head and have not done nearly enough homework on this subject prior to investing in a television.

But, as I stand now, my major source for concern with my new set is the SD Direct TV viewing, which makes up about 85% of my viewing time.

So, do I stand to benefit from:

1) AVIA DVD?

2) Direct TV HD receiver w/component wiring (will this improve SD viewing any?)

3) ISF calibration? (if the DVD player is picture perfect is there really anything to improve Direct TV?)

I would switch to cable or Dish Network but the majority of my day is consumed by the NFL Sunday Ticket.......which I have noticed to be in poor quality especially on the pullback shots showing the field prior to the play beginning.

Just wanted to say that I really appreciate all the replies offering advice and opinions. I know it's not easy informing the uninformed but it is appreciated.
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post #19 of 41
9/25/06 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankmccobb View Post

So, do I stand to benefit from:

1) AVIA DVD?

2) Direct TV HD receiver w/component wiring (will this improve SD viewing any?)

3) ISF calibration? (if the DVD player is picture perfect is there really anything to improve Direct TV?)

1. Found my Avia useful for tinkering but not essential. I've set my TV controls for the most natural looking images; if the Avia conflicts with that, it looses.
2. With an over-compressed poor-quality source I'd go the other way: S-video or even composite video. S-video etc. is more filtered, which should deemphasize image artifacts. Also, I'd compare 480p CRT display vs upconversions such as 1080i.
3. Not IMO. If the D* input differs from the DVD input (actual jacks), and you can't get adequate D* images using settings for that input, an ISFer might achieve better images from tweaking experience, but calibration of the grayscale (no colors in B&W images and the correct color temperatures) won't really 'fix' bad source signals. -- John
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post #20 of 41
10/3/06 at 7:27pm
I have been using the 65F59 for the past 5 months and I love it. I compared it to my cousin's Sony [KDFE60A20] and Panasonic [PT61LCX65] LCD RPTVs and I can clearly say that the picture quality is better. I use a 4 year old JVC DVD player connected thru component video and I see that PQ is very good. I use 540P for watching DVDs and SD. I use 1080I for HD thru component video and it is awesome. The magic focus is very convenient and effective. I did the manual convergence and I found that it is better. When I have the budget I will do an ISF caliberation.

I use the following settings:

Contrast- 45
Brightness- 45
Colour- 50
Sharpness- 35
Black Enhancement- Off
Colour Temp- Standard
Edge Enhancement- Low
Noise Reduction- Off
Auto Movie Mode- On

I hope this helps.....
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post #21 of 41
12/3/06 at 9:30pm
I am thinking about buying the 65F59. I currently have the 57" Toshiba from 2001 - 57H81. I want to upgrade for the HDMI input basically. I noticed the 65" is pretty big. The 57" Toshiba has a depth of 24". The 65" Hitachi has a depth of 25.3". It was pretty tight getting the Toshiba down our basement stairs - because we have to make a 90 deg turn as soon as we get to the entrance to the basement. The width of the basement stairs is 36 but the right angle almost caused problems with the Toshiba. I don't know if the Hitachi will fit, but it is a two piece design. Can we separate into two pieces and take them down individually. Also, where is a good place to buy the 65". The local Circuit City had one but they want $1699 + tax. Free in home delivery. Circuitcity.com does not even advertise it. Also, are these sets going away soon. Should I wait until after Superbowl for better sales. Also, I noticed 6th Ave store (6thave.com) has this TV for $1398 + 6cent shipping. Are they any good?

Should I just stay with the 57" Hitachi. I still don't know if it is worth it for me to sell my perfectly working Toshiba 57H81 for this Hitachi. The only reason I thought was hooking up a HTPC using DVI to HDMI cable. I cannot do that with the Toshiba since it does not have DVI or HDMI.

Please advise.
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post #22 of 41
12/5/06 at 7:23am
bump
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post #23 of 41
12/5/06 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edogg07 View Post

bump

I don't get it!
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post #24 of 41
12/5/06 at 12:53pm
"Bump" just puts this thread back to the top of the list so people will notice it.
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post #25 of 41
12/7/06 at 8:38am
I just bought the 65F59 from Nebraska Furniture Mart in Kansas City. I am within their local delivery area and the in-home delivery charge is $44. I got a great deal - they have them this week for $1199. I am excited and cautious at the same time. They have setup the delivery for tomorrow. The TV needs to go down the stairs to our basement. There is one tight turn at the entrance to the stairs. My previous Toshiba 57H81 57" barely fit through there and I know that this TV won't fit unless it is split into two pieces. I know this TV comes apart into two pieces and it is even listed in the Owner's manual. However, the Nebraska Furniture Mart told me that their delivery people will not dismantle TVs especially if it voids the warranty. Does anyone know if splitting the TV voids the warranty? Please help!!
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post #26 of 41
12/8/06 at 2:44pm
Just wanted to add a note - Nebraska Furniture Mart delivered my 65F59 today. They took it into two pieces and took it down the stairs to the basement. They made it look pretty simple. I have not turned it on since it is pretty cold. I am going to wait for the TV's temperature to normalize. I will post my opinions tomorrow.
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post #27 of 41
12/8/06 at 3:20pm
Yep, the Hitachi units OVER 51" split into 2 pieces, I originally ordered the 51S700, but 1 piece wouldn't fit.
I upgraded to the 2 piece 57S700, and it came down with no issues at all.
Surprised noone mentioned that to you.

Have fun with that set, thats a FANTASTIC price!!
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post #28 of 41
12/10/06 at 12:28pm
After waiting about 11 hours for the 65F59 to come to room temperature, I plugged in all the connectors and turned it on. After fiddling with the settings and doing a Magic Focus (after 30 minute warm up), the picture looks decent. I have OTA HD. No cable/sat. I have a progressive scan DVD player hooked up through component video. I also have a Sony HD-DVR hooked up through component also (I tried the HDMI cable just today - had to borrow it from my friend). Everything looks decent. No weird screen problems. No HDMI problems either. I will have to perform a 117 point convergence and Video Essentials Calibration after the break-in period. I am going on vacation next Saturday until the new year - so that has to wait!

Also, I hooked up my Power Mac G4 with a ATI Radeon 9600 video card to the TV using a DVI-HDMI cable. The mac automatically recognized it as a 1920x1080i 60Hz monitor. It recognized it as a Hitachi too! While text doesn't look very clear, I played some HD video from the Mac and also displayed some iPhoto slide shows. Works great. That was my biggest concern and that has been resolved. I will have to fiddle with the overscan later. But for now everything works as expected. May be I will buy a Mac Mini or something like that next year and use that as a media PC with HDMI.

Also, my center channel speaker (Klipsch RC-7 26" wide, 12" deep, 44 lbs) is huge and heavy and I did not want to put that on the TV, so for now, I have it setup on the floor right in front of the TV with it tilted up at an angle that would make it our ear level. Sounds great. I looked at speaker mounts (rather TV mounts) for mounting my speaker above the TV, but decided against it since that would make the speaker too high.

Some gripes:

1) OTA channel changes are pretty slow. Takes a couple of seconds to switch channels.
2) Switching inputs (Input 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Air) is slow also since you have to keep pressing up and down to switch from one to the other. Drives my Harmony H659 remote nuts since it has to go up and down this list. If it starts from the wrong place, it will end up in the wrong input also.

For $1199 this is a steal. BTW, the 57" is selling at $999.
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post #29 of 41
12/10/06 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

After waiting about 11 hours for the 65F59 to come to room temperature, I plugged in all the connectors and turned it on. After fiddling with the settings and doing a Magic Focus (after 30 minute warm up), the picture looks decent. I have OTA HD. No cable/sat. I have a progressive scan DVD player hooked up through component video. I also have a Sony HD-DVR hooked up through component also (I tried the HDMI cable just today - had to borrow it from my friend). Everything looks decent. No weird screen problems. No HDMI problems either. I will have to perform a 117 point convergence and Video Essentials Calibration after the break-in period. I am going on vacation next Saturday until the new year - so that has to wait!

Also, I hooked up my Power Mac G4 with a ATI Radeon 9600 video card to the TV using a DVI-HDMI cable. The mac automatically recognized it as a 1920x1080i 60Hz monitor. It recognized it as a Hitachi too! While text doesn't look very clear, I played some HD video from the Mac and also displayed some iPhoto slide shows. Works great. That was my biggest concern and that has been resolved. I will have to fiddle with the overscan later. But for now everything works as expected. May be I will buy a Mac Mini or something like that next year and use that as a media PC with HDMI.

Also, my center channel speaker (Klipsch RC-7 26" wide, 12" deep, 44 lbs) is huge and heavy and I did not want to put that on the TV, so for now, I have it setup on the floor right in front of the TV with it tilted up at an angle that would make it our ear level. Sounds great. I looked at speaker mounts (rather TV mounts) for mounting my speaker above the TV, but decided against it since that would make the speaker too high.

Some gripes:

1) OTA channel changes are pretty slow. Takes a couple of seconds to switch channels.
2) Switching inputs (Input 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Air) is slow also since you have to keep pressing up and down to switch from one to the other. Drives my Harmony H659 remote nuts since it has to go up and down this list. If it starts from the wrong place, it will end up in the wrong input also.

For $1199 this is a steal. BTW, the 57" is selling at $999.

Can you please go into your menu, go to setup, upgrades, and tell us what software version your TV has?
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post #30 of 41
12/10/06 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

2) Drives my Harmony H659 remote nuts since it has to go up and down this list. If it starts from the wrong place, it will end up in the wrong input also.
.

Direct input codes for your Harmony are available on the Logitech site for everything except Air. Should speed up your Harmony and eliminate mistakes when switching inputs.
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