Dedicated 2 Channel Speaker set-up advice

Ty it looks like you have a pretty good idea of what speakers you like, as far as components there are many different options. I would look at integrated amps for two channel setup, offerings from Cambridge Audio 640A v.2, Music Hall A25.2, Rotel 1062 just to name a few. Most of these companies also offer a cd player that matches up nicely to their respective equipment. You could also go the route of a pre-amp matched with an amp with a cd player. With your budget you could split the costs about 50/50 to get a nice two channel setup.

I will second the Rotel. I also recommend looking into NAD. Check out audiogon.com for used electronics. You can get a very high bang for buck factor from that site.

For speakers I will add Vandersteen (1C and 2CE signature's) to that list.

for amp try sonic impact super t-amp half the price of a nad 320bee or 325bee which i also recommend

if you dont play loud the new focal jmlab chorus 807v big bookshelf is worth a listen

The only Rotel integrated amp is 60 watts/ch, and sells for $700. The 60 watt Cambridge model is $400. Are these really comparable in performance? If so, the Cambridge would clearly be the better buy (especially since this same price relationship applies to the matching CD players also.)

by when watt per channel has become "the" main criteria for choosing an amp?

much better choose speakers and then select the amp

Who said it was? When comparing amps from two manufacturers, it makes sense to choose the most similar ones. Watts/ch is one way to decide which ones are similar.

Maybe not that exact ratio, but I would put more into the speakers. I would also put more of the electronics budget into the receiver or amp than the CD player ($150 will buy a really nice-sounding CD player these days. My Onkyo DX-C390 being one example.)
The 700 series are great speakers, but at a high price. I would stick with the 600's on a budget.

For a good 2 ch setup, I'd definitely go a bit higher on the speaker side. You probably have an old CD player that you can use in the interim, and then just get a good stereo pre/amp, and upgrade your cd player down the road. Speakers tend to last the longest (unless you get hit with a bout of upgradeitis) so spending more on speakers from the get go will do you better in the long run.

a room of 12 x 11 is very bad for audio. a floor stander may be too bass heavy resulting boomy bass and muddy mids

what type of music you prefer?

b&w speakers can dip to 3.4ohm so a good amp which can supply more current is needed. krell is famous for bass and current so matching with 60x. however in long term listening the artificial highs and disco bass from krell may give you fatigue. krell gives you very good and expensive electronic components, design, chassis and appeal to newbies. you will notice that there are a lot being sold in 2nd hand market because you will get tired of the sound after a year or two.

nad 320bee or 325bee originated from the famous 3020 which has been proven good sounding. there have been mods discussed in audio asylum how to make the 320bee to sound better.

regarding the sonic impact super t-amp there seems to be a cult to mod to make it better. lots of discussions already been made in diyaudio forum. very strong with piano, strings and guitar which are rich in harmonics

If you can put a pair of monitors 2 or more feet out from a rear wall, I would highly suggest the Alegria Audio Emmas. They require no subwoofer (good to below 40Hz with ease), and I personally find them to be among the more lifelike speakers I've ever had the pleasure of listening to. They run about 699 retail.

As far as associated electronics, I would definately keep it at least 50/50, with the whole garbage in, garbage out mantra playing heavily in that area. I'm personally looking at the Outlaw Audio RR2150 stereo receiver (solid review in Stereophile, Soundstage, etc) as it features lots of goodies including a phono input (if you're inclined to add it in the future), bass mgmt, and a solid 100wpc. As far as the source goes, I'm a fan of Marantz CD players myself (I find they have a good bang for the buck).

as i mentioned earlier the 7 inch mid/bass of focal jmlab chorus 807v should be sufficient. no sub is needed.

to integrate a sub with 2 bookshelf speakers may create more problems than not if you have not been into this hobby for long.

go for some 2 or 3 way with 7-8 inch mid/bass not 6.5 inch as a general criteria. bookshelf plus stand or floorstander if space permit

i have not read stereophile oct 06 issue but someone mentioned there is a review of the sonic impact super t-amp and classified as class c recommended component. if true it will be worth a read.

tube amp? you switch it on then go and have dinner, and then sit down and have a listen.

i rather have the super t-amp some saying it is tube like sound, and you can save a lot of electricity bill. this is a green thing

does anyone have any more specific feedback around the Cambridge CD players? I've read nothing but good things about them, but havent heard one myself.

I recently acquired an Arcam Avr100 ( thanks audiogon! ) that i really enjoy, but don't want to invest in the matched CD player from Arcam.

As such, Im thinking about replacing my CD player with some of the models the OP is looking at, and I think the Cambridge would match my setup best, both in SQ and aesthetics.

thanks to all for your input. great forum.

I would say yes and no...Particularly in the case of the Emma's which have a special motor structure, it has been shown that a 6.5" driver can indeed delve quite deep (some testers of it have reported usable output at 20Hz, and it is speced to 36Hz at -3dB). While I don't have measuring equipment personally, it does even a fine job with light HT duty and it definately does a fine job with rock (although of note it isn't the most efficient speaker to grace the planet).

As far as the T-amps go, I have heard good things about them, but if the listener is going to be pushing volume at all, I doubt even the super t-amp would do the job of say a pair of Outlaw monoblocks (~325 a pop). Now if size is an issue, a good choice might be the Parasound Z-amp (45wpcx2), although I wouldn't use it for too hard of a speaker load (such a small amplifier does have its limits) for 300 a pop. If it were my money though, something like the Outlaw RR-2150 (599), the Alegria Emmas (699), and a Marantz CC-4300 (249) would be a good way to go. Get some good quality wiring, interconnects, and stands, and you would still have a few bucks left over to expand your CD collection.

I will be interested in this also. Now that I am 100% satisfied with my speakers, my next upgrade can be electronics. I like what I have, but a matched set of silver Cambridges would look mighty nice on my shelf. (Only if they also sound great, though.)

cpu, I have been curious to hear the new chorus v line. They look very sleek and sexy, and hopefully sound even better. For your budget I would still say 50/50 or 60/40 giving a tad to the speakers. My two channel setup, I have a set of bookshelves (Onix 250's) in a 10x13 room and was running them off of an older denon head unit 3600. Rated at 100-110watts, pretty good unit back in it's day. Anyways when I switched in the Cambridge 640A v.2 rated at 75watt, I can say that there was a big difference. Much more punch and dynamics with the Cambridge, it was almost like listening to new speakers. My point, don't let some power ratings fool you into something that they are not. Many of the integrated amps have true raw power ratings probably leaving them a bit under there full capabilities with headroom to spare.

Matro, do a search over on the cd forum, there are a few threads regarding the Cambridge cd players, comparisons, reviews, etc.

714 will become the old chorus series. good choice too if you want a pair of floorstanders. because of the new 800v series coming out you should be able to get a good discount on the old 714. your local focal dealer should be able to demo to you the two side by side.

tube amp generally needs more than 60 sec to stabilize or warm up fully.

for t-amp check

http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/start.html
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ampbox/page2.html

Unfortunately it is a very small up and coming net-based company. Depending on where you live, you might be able to get an audition though (its based out of Seattle; and if you're in the DC area, I'd give you an audition!!). I would use the whole "you would only be out shipping charges" spiel to get you an audition, but nah. The guy who runs it might be able to hook you up with someone local though.

Other speakers worth looking at though:
Paradigm Studio 20 (excellent balance)
Klipsch RB-81 (dynamics and efficiency anyone; great w/ tubes)
Wharfedale Evolution Series
Magnepan MMG (will need a sub and hefty amplifier; reasonably priced though; excellent sound overall)
Epos M 5 (great sound/overall value)

http://www.parasound.com/halo/p3.php

with a nice 2 channel amp, have seen these go as cheap as 450.00

If you have a chance to listen to the 540C/540A combo, I would love your feedback as that is what I was considering.
My understanding is that the new S3 600's are a major improvement over the older models. I love mine. Of course, if you prefer PSB then you do. Nobody is trying to suggest you should prefer the B&Ws.

Indeed, the Parasound Z-amp is 299 and the preamp is 349. They're pretty small, which as I said, leads to their only real flaw: don't match it with too difficult of a load.

"Into 4Ω the power doesn't double (that would be a level surface at the top) but it's still quite substantial considering the less-than-monstrous power supply and it holds up well at all phase angles. Into 2Ω and 1Ω the output declines precipitously but it's still far from negligible, and there is no sagging at any phase angle."

Courtesy of The Audio Critic.

Some very good suggestions so far. Unfortunately, getting a rig to sound right requires a lot more than simply throwing some amps and speakers together and hoping for the best. I'd definitely choose my speakers first and then audition a nice integrated to properly drive them. Whatever you do, don't buy merely on suggestions. Find out for yourself and come to your own conclusions. Vandy, for example, is a real "Love 'em" or "Hate 'em" proposition for most people. There are few speakers that I can think of that foster more obdurate opinions than Vandersteen.

Some recommendations for audition would be:

* Von Schweikert VR1's - astonishing standmounts with speed and dynamics to burn. Very musical and not hi-fi'ish at all. More than enough speaker for your room and listening habits and will easily scale upwards with your front end.

* Paradigm Studio 20 V3 - excellent all 'rounders and easy to find and audition. Image like crazy.

* Focal Cobalt 806S - lively and engaging. Some feel the tweeter runs hot, so listen to them for a while and see if fatigue sets in.

I'd usually recommend Maggies (1.6 or MMG's), but don't think they'll sound very good within your tight confines. Bipolar's, especially panels, need a lot of room to sound right unfortunately. I also think your squarish room is going to wreak havoc with a bass happy floorstander, (although you could always treat the room to deal with the nodes).

Front end components are far easier. For a budget 2 channel, it's hard to argue against the simplicity of an integrated versus the Preamp/Amp route. Going full separates means you have to worry about synergy between the pre and amp (no small thing, btw), IC's, dual power points, space, etc. Certainly, you have more flexibility with separates, but do you really need it?

Most of the usual suspects have already been mentioned (Cambridge Audio, Rotel, Nad). In fact, I'm listening to a CA 540a and 540c in my office as I'm typing this and have been very happy with them for a few years now. The highest endorsement I can give them is that both have operated flawlessly for the past two years, 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week without a hint of strain or quirkiness. Considering the amp is pushing a 4 ohm nominal load and doesn't even get warm, that's a considerable achievement.

Besides the obvious contenders, you might consider:

* Creek - clean, ballsy, well built
* Jolida - here's the tubes you were asking about. Warm, self-biasing, highly musical and engaging. Pair with the VR1's (to pick up the slack on the bottom end) and you've got a helluva starter system.
* Audio Refinement - typical YBA sound; warm, lush, and slightly romantic. Highly musical and not the least bit fatiguing.
* Primaluna - another tube integrated with harmonics and musicality. Build is a shade better than the Jolida, which is not a slam on the Jolida btw.
* Music Hall - detailed, punchy, and well built. Great cd players, too.

Great cd sound can be had for very little money so pick a source and be happy. Any Denon, Marantz, or Music Hall will do.

Lot's and lot's of choices! Audition everything you can and enjoy the process. A well sorted rig can provide years, if not decades, of enjoyment!

Hope this helps.