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Just read about HDMI 1.3

post #1 of 77
Thread Starter 
I can not figure out why people seem to be waiting for 1.3. It doesn't seem like it gives any benefits that are needed these days.

From what I can tell, 1.2 suports 1080p and 8 channels of uncompressed digital audio. What else is needed?

Well ... I guess 1.3 is supposed to synch audio and video better ... but I doubt anyone would be able notice the difference.

Sems like alot of people are waiting for something ... something ...

Am I missing something?
post #2 of 77
HDMI 1.3 receivers will be the first to offer internal decoding for Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, and Dolby Digital Plus.

Currently, if you want to experience those formats, you must buy a HDMI 1.x player with built-in decoders for those formats. There's nothing wrong with that, it just limits your choices, since the Blu-ray specification doesn't require vendors to include those decoders in their players.
post #3 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

HDMI 1.3 receivers will be the first to offer internal decoding for Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, and Dolby Digital Plus.

Currently, if you want to experience those formats, you must buy a HDMI 1.x player with built-in decoders for those formats. There's nothing wrong with that, it just limits your choices, since the Blu-ray specification doesn't vendors to include those decoders in their players.

OHHHHH .... now I can see it being logical.

I think I'm going ot put a new receiver off 2 years or so. Then I can snag a used 1.3 compliant model when Blue Ray, etc drop in price alot.

Glad I learned of the logic.

THANKS!
post #4 of 77
HDMI 1.3 supports higher color bit-depths, and as you know, allows a receiver or pre/pro to decode the advanced codecs sent through bitstream. If you like the promise of the higher color bit-depths, then that would require you to upgrade your display as well, which I'm sure not many people will be willing to do anytime soon after HDMI 1.3 displays hit the market.

From an audio perspective, there is little purpose for HDMI 1.3 when you consider HD DVD and Blu-Ray. I think some people just like the idea of having multiple options to handle these new audio codecs. Of course, there is uncertainty surrounding how HD DVD players will handle the bitstream option through HDMI 1.3, since some HD DVD content goes through advanced authoring.

In my opinion, any capable receiver or pre/pro that accepts multichannel LPCM via HDMI 1.0-1.2 is all that's needed. Non pre-encoded forms of digital media, like Playstation 3 games, will deliver raw uncompressed LPCM without the need for any compression scheme, so HD DVD and Blu-Ray movies is really all there is to worry about whatsoever. Well, there isn't much worrying regarding these players since players that can internally decode both multichannel TrueHD and DTS-HD MA should be available relatively soon. They should be available before HDMI 1.3 receivers that decode the advanced codecs come out.
post #5 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Currently, if you want to experience those formats, you must buy a HDMI 1.x player with built-in decoders for those formats. There's nothing wrong with that, it just limits your choices, since the Blu-ray specification doesn't vendors to include those decoders in their players.

Aren't all the existing players out there already like this?
post #6 of 77
Quote:


Aren't all the existing players out there already like this?

Ehh? AFAIK, none of the existing or announced standalone Blu-ray players offer built-in decoders for DD+, TrueHD, or DTS-MA, except for one. However, these products don't have HDMI 1.3 either, so for the most part, you're out of luck if you want to experience the next-generation lossless audio formats on these products. The PS3 looks to be the first Blu-ray player with HDMI 1.3, although we should see other players with HDMI 1.3 starting next spring.

The situation on HD-DVD differs somewhat; all shipping and announced HD-DVD players feature built-in decoders for Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD 5.1.
post #7 of 77
I'm getting ready to purchase a new receiver and I've also been wondering about this HDMI 1.3 question and whether I should wait until 1.3 comes out before making a purchase.

Am I correct in reading this thread that if my receiver supports HDMI 1.1 and I have an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player that has built in decoding for the new high-definition audio formats that I can have the player do the decoding and pass the audio and video through HDMI and be able to have the high def audio in the output to my speakers? (hope that made sense )

Or would I need to connect the audio of my high definition player to the analog 5.1 inputs of my receiver?
post #8 of 77
Quote:


Am I correct in reading this thread that if my receiver supports HDMI 1.1 and I have an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player that has built in decoding for the new high-definition audio formats that I can have the player do the decoding and pass the audio and video through HDMI and be able to have the high def audio in the output to my speakers?

That is correct.

That said, not all HDMI products are created equal. For example, some receivers with room equalization (room correction) and special surround modes support those features with HDMI sources, whereas others do not.
post #9 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Ehh? AFAIK, none of the existing or announced standalone Blu-ray players offer built-in decoders for DD+, TrueHD, or DTS-MA, except for one. However, these products don't have HDMI 1.3 either, so for the most part, you're out of luck if you want to experience the next-generation lossless audio formats on these products. The PS3 looks to be the first Blu-ray player with HDMI 1.3, although we should see other players with HDMI 1.3 starting next spring.

Do any of the BR discs out there even have DD+, TrueHD, or DTS-MA or any of the next gen formats on them?
post #10 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

That is correct.

That said, not all HDMI products are created equal. For example, some receivers with room equalization (room correction) and special surround modes support those features with HDMI sources, whereas others do not.

Do we know what brand/models that include HDMI..
But...
Do not support Room EQ for HDMI audio..
post #11 of 77
HDMI 1.3 offers little to nothing....It is not worth waiting for. I just bought a new 1.1 HDMI processor (Halcro) and know it will play all of the lossless formats. HDMI 1.3 in receivers is at least a year out. HDMI 1.1 receivers will give you all the benefits of a HDMI 1.3 reciever as long as you have a player able to decode the lossless formats (or not....LPCM - mandatory on BD - is easily played at full res via HDMI 1.1).
post #12 of 77
Btw does the type "C" connector applies to 1.3 products or just camcorders?
post #13 of 77
I would agree with the Bland's assertion that HDMI 1.3 is not worth waiting for, but only if you are in position where you need (or really want to) buy a receiver or pre/pro now or in the near future. If you are looking for a new receiver or pre/pro but are in a position to wait until devices with HDMI 1.3 and internal decoding of the next gen audio formats comes out, then you'd be wise to do so.

For instance, I am looking to upgrade (at some point) my display, my pre/pro and will eventually buy an HD player or two (not counting owning a PS3). HDMI 1.3 effects every component in that chain and it seems far wiser to put the money I have now into upgrading my amps and speakers and wait until I purchase products that allow an entire HDMI 1.3 chain from source to display before upgrading anything else.

If you just bought a display and/or an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player and the receiver is the last piece, then I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of the current offerings with HDMI1.1 or 1.2a.

BTW Bland, that Halcro is a really nice piece. There are times I wish I had your bottomless wallet. There are several pieces of your setup that exceed my entire HT budget.
post #14 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmermatt View Post

I'm getting ready to purchase a new receiver and I've also been wondering about this HDMI 1.3 question and whether I should wait until 1.3 comes out before making a purchase.

Am I correct in reading this thread that if my receiver supports HDMI 1.1 and I have an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player that has built in decoding for the new high-definition audio formats that I can have the player do the decoding and pass the audio and video through HDMI and be able to have the high def audio in the output to my speakers? (hope that made sense )

Or would I need to connect the audio of my high definition player to the analog 5.1 inputs of my receiver?

Reading the Samsung BD P-1000 Blu-ray manual I understand that the Dolby Digital decoding can be done in the player resulting in analog outputs, or the HDMI signal can be passed to AV Rx and the decoding done there. I don't see a way to do the Digital Dolby decoding in the player and pass the decoded 5.1 channels to the RX via HDMI. The lossless codecs (Dolby True HD and DTS Master)require HDMI 1.3 so if they are important to you and you want to decode them in your AV Rx, I think you wait. I think another generation of HDMI maturation might be worthwhile also.
post #15 of 77
Well you all are in luck. There are 2 units out there that have replaceable cards to upgrade your hdmi tech when needed. The NHT Controller, and the just announced NAD T175 Preamp. I've been waiting for a high quality HDMI preamp, and just ordered the NAD T175 and matching T775 amp. There is no way you can go wrong with these units.

NAD Debuts New A/V Tuner Preamplifier with HDMI Switching, Auto Audio Setup and Auto Calibration

NHT Controller

post #16 of 77
Now I'm confused

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ4U2SA View Post

The lossless codecs (Dolby True HD and DTS Master)require HDMI 1.3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

HDMI 1.3 offers little to nothing....It is not worth waiting for. I just bought a new 1.1 HDMI processor (Halcro) and know it will play all of the lossless formats

According to the HDMI industry site (http://www.hdmi.org/about/faq.asp#hdmi_specification)

"In addition to HDMI's current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS®), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio."

I'm guessing that the confusion comes in as to where the processing is done. If the high-def player does the processing then its passing "uncompressed digital audio" (after having uncompressed the compressed lossless audio) and 1.1 will do. If you want the receiver to do the processing then you need 1.3 to pass the "new lossless compressed digital audio formats" so that the receiver can do the processing.

Is that right??
post #17 of 77
Quote:


I'm guessing that the confusion comes in as to where the processing is done. If the high-def player does the processing then its passing "uncompressed digital audio" (after having uncompressed the compressed lossless audio) and 1.1 will do. If you want the receiver to do the processing then you need 1.3 to pass the "new lossless compressed digital audio formats" so that the receiver can do the processing.

Is that right??

Yes.
post #18 of 77
Can HDMI 1.1 pass throgh 8 channels of uncompressed digital audio? I thought it could pass only 2 channels?
post #19 of 77
The NAD T175 looks great, but where does it say the HDMI can be upgraded via a replaceable card? Where can you even order one right now, I don't think it's available until later this year.
post #20 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by vett93 View Post

Can HDMI 1.1 pass throgh 8 channels of uncompressed digital audio?

Yes, up to 8 channels of 192/24 uncompressed PCM digital audio.

Sanjay
post #21 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Yes, up to 8 channels of 192/24 uncompressed PCM digital audio.

Sanjay

Not to get too picky, but it supports even higher sample rates. Up to 768 I think.
post #22 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by vett93 View Post

Can HDMI 1.1 pass throgh 8 channels of uncompressed digital audio? I thought it could pass only 2 channels?


HDMI 1.0 only had 2-channel capability..
post #23 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzun View Post

The NAD T175 looks great, but where does it say the HDMI can be upgraded via a replaceable card? Where can you even order one right now, I don't think it's available until later this year.

There is nothing available in writing yet (except the avreports press release linked above). However have spoken with several people who saw it 1st hand at Cedia last week. It does have cards & thats huge. Whether the cards are for hdmi upgrades only or for other features as well is still to be determined. Got an email from NAD yesterday, and they said the info will be posted to their website 'shortly'. I've also heard the T775 is basically an M25 with 140w vs 160w and without the cool titanium case; you're saving $800 if the 20w difference doesn't bother you. What an awesome pair! FYI - I 'pre-ordered' the units...check with your local authorized NAD dealer.
post #24 of 77
Do some of the current crop of HDMI 1.1 receivers do everything to a 5.1 PCM stream that they can to a legacy DD or DTS stream? Some of the main concerns: Parametric equalization (room correction), speaker distance, channel level, bass management (redirecting < xover to SW and ALSO filtering those frequencies from the original channel), night mode (dynamic range compression), lip sync, and finally PLIIx for 5.1->7.1 playback...

My impression was that 1.1 receivers generally do nothing more than an a->d conversion on a 5.1 PCM stream, leaving many or all of the above not available for those sources...
post #25 of 77
Regarding current receivers with HDMI 1.1, it looks like not all will even do anything with audio. I've been eyeing the Rotel 1057, which has 1.1, but reading through the manual it doesn't do anything but video switching. To get audio from your hdmi source through the receiver you need a seperate connection (optical,etc).
post #26 of 77
Ya, some receivers are like that zimmer. By saying 1.1 it was my intention to imply that they will actually utilize the audio in the HDMI input and not just act as a switch.
post #27 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felgar View Post

My impression was that 1.1 receivers generally do nothing more than an a->d conversion on a 5.1 PCM stream, leaving many or all of the above not available for those sources...

This isn't true. Denon has a whole stack of HDMI 1.1 receivers that will let you do all the same stuff to HDMI audio that you do to DD5.1 and DTS. Pioneer's Elite 74 and 72 are the same way. The Pioneer's Elite 84 & 82 are both HDMI 1.2, so they do the same thing and a little more...
post #28 of 77
Alrighty. Thanks for the info Stereodude.
post #29 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

HDMI 1.3 receivers will be the first to offer internal decoding for Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, and Dolby Digital Plus.

Currently, if you want to experience those formats, you must buy a HDMI 1.x player with built-in decoders for those formats. There's nothing wrong with that, it just limits your choices, since the Blu-ray specification doesn't require vendors to include those decoders in their players.

Does this mean that Dolby TrueHD, etc. bit streams will only be passed via HDMI 1.3 to the receiver and not output via optical or coaxial digital outputs?
Do existing optical SPDIF and coaxial methods of digital audio delivery have enough throughput for the HD multi-channel audio formats?
Regards,
Michael.
post #30 of 77
Kind of off topic here, but is there any advantange (other than less cables) to using any of the HDMI versions for audio as opposed to a optical cable?
Would an optical cable be sufficient for True HD and DTS MA provided it has been decoded by the player?
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