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HD70 Tweakers Thread. - Page 9

post #241 of 2474
10/10/06 at 3:52pm
cyberheater

do you have a link to that german review - that is not a cine4home.de chart. Are you sure it was an HD70 review not an HD72 review?

The marketed spec without TrueAI engaged is only 3000:1 - so a <20% loss for calibrated simply is not feasible - as there is no IRIS (and nobody here is even using TrueAI)
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post #242 of 2474
10/10/06 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

do you have a link to that german review

http://www.meinheimkino.com/thread.php?threadid=7659
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post #243 of 2474
10/10/06 at 4:11pm
Wow, shocking, that was have Kras and Cavu back to back posting in the HD70 thread, yet again. I guess the doctors are too busy to prescribe some valium for you 2 to realise you are not wanted round these parts? This is the tweakers thread for OWNERS to post their calibrations. Go start another thread for your infernal bitching and crying. Cavu being a hardcore Infocus supporter and Kras a hardcore Infocus dealer. 2 people who should NOT BE IN THIS THREAD. It pains me as i smoke my cuban Romeo and Juliet cigar and sip on my merlot that there are people so troubled in the world, they go on forums and bitch bitch bitch.

Such is the case here.

I came back to this thread to see if anyone else posted any calibration numbers, but all i get are 2 people who dont own the projector trying to bitch to those that do.
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post #244 of 2474
10/10/06 at 4:25pm
cyberheater

something screwy is lost interpretation - he said he got 2250:1 in the uncalibrated out of box - but 2500:1 tweaked to D65...find out if he did any filter or IRIS tweaks - or if he had true AI engaged.

But surely you can see that D65 tweaking without such tricks is never going to increase the contrast! Look at where he started in the first CIE diagram- very greenish. Green is responsible for luminance and contrast. So clearly he had to cut green to accomplish the D65 goal a lot - which means a lot of luminance and contrast will be cut.

Are you sure he is talking about the HD70 when he quoted that number - as someone else brought up other boxes in that thread - maybe he was referring to those calibrations! Do you read german - I get germanglish from alta vista....or I take it the cyberheater in that thread is you?
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post #245 of 2474
10/10/06 at 4:29pm
blitz6speed

If you have nothing to provide but abusive attacks - then leave the thread.


I just posted to an HD70 owner how he can use test patterns to try to DIY calibrate as he specifically requested.

Maybe you should go buy a test DVD and quietly learn about calibration yourself - since the one asking for calibration help - has already posted your numbers were funky on his box - either every box is different - or you don't know how to calibrate with test patterns.

---------------

Today, 10:47 AM #223 (Print)
WyattERP
Member


Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 23 Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed
Wyatt

Did you try the settings i posted for HDMI?



Yeah, I actually did try your settings. I wasn't sure if it was accurate or not...but the image looked funky to me big time. I'll try again with some more sources though, I simply tried it watching "Cast Away" the other night.
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post #246 of 2474
10/10/06 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

I can't tolerate any GLARING flaws, like a horriffic CR or really bad red/green/blue push that destroys fleshtones and the like.....barring that, I'm willing to live with simple issues for the money I spent. There were issues with the H31, there will likely be issues in the future with other PJ's I buy assuming I buy on the cheaper side of the bell curve.


I agree completely HeadRusch.

Glaring, unfixable flaws worry me. If something *can* be tweaked in spite of itself, then I'm willing to give up some things to gain others. As so many have said, it's a matter of trade-offs, so which one(s) do you want to live with? What one is willing to live with is ultimately individual, but I feel like everyone should know what the trade-offs are.
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post #247 of 2474
10/10/06 at 4:49pm
This thread is really interesting!
While I can understand the angst of hd70 owners who are upset to hear posts about the imperfections of their purchases, I highly disagree with them trying to push off those who are trying to give us all some basic scientific facts about the product. Some of us want to know the facts.
Green push is not something that is trivial. Fixing it is not trivial, if even possible. Sure you could just use it with an RGB source to get around the decoder, but how many set top boxes put out RGB? Not many. Is it a good HTPC pj?
I am looking forward to kras's review myself.
I am a bit dissapointed in tom's "don't worry, be happy" attitude. Engineers are responsible for the setups we see "out of the box" on most displays, and they are not very pretty. Not their fault, of course.
This is AV bloody Science! A free review by Kras is , er , free! Read it if you want or go visit Yahoos sexy picture of the day!
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post #248 of 2474
10/10/06 at 5:07pm
I dont see anyone getting upset that the HD70 isn't the best PJ in the world AND it happens to only cost $1000...............I just see personality conflicts.

If the PJ has green push or requires a heavy duty calibration to get it normal, so be it. To alot of people (a *lot* of people) they'll never know the difference, coming from non-tweaked Sony WEGA's and LCD or Plasma sets with colors and CR ratios all over the spectrum.

Tom is coming from the point of view that the thing looks good...enjoy it. Kras is saying "it may look good, but its not accurate, and making it accurate is a real pain and introduces some problems of its own in the CR/Brightness department" (From what I can gather, we'll know more when RedDog gets his unit, I imagine).

Frankly, I want to hear a detailed review..i want to see how the unit measures up, and where it fails. There are few projectors out there that are perfect, at any cost....they all have one failing or another. If there was a perfect PJ out there at every bracket, we'd all own one of those. But some of us own Optoma, some own Infocus, some Panny and some Sanyo and a few with deep pockets own Sony

Just ignore the war of words and thinly-veiled jabs.......we're waiting to see the pros and cons of this $1000 unit.

This is no different than the "Smoothscreen on my Panny RULES" vs. "Smoothscreen looks blurry, Smoothscreen SUCKS!" arguements.....its all in the perception of the owner. Some people care if it'll calibrate to D65....some people don't.....but I wouldn't say anyone here is trying to shove their head in the sand.
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post #249 of 2474
10/10/06 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed View Post

Wow, shocking, that was have Kras and Cavu back to back posting in the HD70 thread, yet again. I guess the doctors are too busy to prescribe some valium for you 2 to realise you are not wanted round these parts? This is the tweakers thread for OWNERS to post their calibrations. Go start another thread for your infernal bitching and crying. Cavu being a hardcore Infocus supporter and Kras a hardcore Infocus dealer. 2 people who should NOT BE IN THIS THREAD. It pains me as i smoke my cuban Romeo and Juliet cigar and sip on my merlot that there are people so troubled in the world, they go on forums and bitch bitch bitch.

Such is the case here.

I came back to this thread to see if anyone else posted any calibration numbers, but all i get are 2 people who dont own the projector trying to bitch to those that do.

blitz6speed, keep up the attitude against members of this forum and expect a suspension. Leave the personal remarks out of this thread. Last warning!

You can debate without acting like a child. If not, leave.

Kyser
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post #250 of 2474
10/10/06 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

I posted how to do this earlier in the thread.

Using standard colorbars - adjust the RGB gains in the advanced menu so that the CMY on the colorbars look balanced. Yellow is easiest, Cyan is a off sky-blue - neither green nor blue, magenta is neither purple nor crimson. Look at the posted CIE gamut chart - Yellow is between Red/Green - so you know Blue cannot control Yellow - only Red/Green can.

Get the Yellow right - you can get the Orange right. Here is the big hint - set Brilliant Color to 0 or maybe 3 - no more. However I would not be comparing to your TV - your TV probably has severe red push - which makes anything near red glow - that is not vibrant color - that is wrong color.

If you do this with the 75IRE colorbars you will still hot colors and whites - so you might also want to do this with the 100IRE colorbars (you need AVIA) Though you may find you need to lower contrast (or equally RGB gains) to get the colors to match at 100IRE. You will find that once you correct the colors - you have corrected the bright greyscale. Now put up a greyscale steps pattern and tune the RGB gains to balance out the dark blacks with the whites.

What you have now done is adjusted the greyscale - and the non-primary colors are dependent on the greyscale.

You need a digital RGB source with known good tint to do this. My Accupel HD video generator I use cost more than the projector - but there are some good HDMI/DVI DVD players out there. Upconverting is not relevant - as the 480P and 720P greyscale memory is the same one.


Now a greenish Grey results in greenish Yellow - which results in yellowish Orange. So it maybe that you don't have just a greyscale problem. So go back earlier in the chain - are your component connections correct (find a HDnet or late night test patterns). Do you have your cable box set for 720P? Does you cable box decode DVI/HDMI properly to RGB if that is what you are using? If the same connections on the SP4805 look right - then I think we can rule out the source. It looks like both screens have blue&red in the pics - so I tend to rule out connection issues (though I think you have the color control too high on your SP4805 - you can crank your HD70 color just as well)

Hopefully the unruly element calling you an Infocus shill for seeing what you see have left - anyone else have an idea what is wrong with the pics?

Phew...this is making my head spin, but I really appreciate your time in spelling out this stuff to the community. I am gonna give blitzes HDMI setting on more try tonight, and then I will reset and try following the advice you have given. BTW, is the Digital Video Essentials DVD a decent disc for calibration? That's the only disc I have at the moment. Also, I have my 360 hooked up via VGA...does this escape the internal color decoder issues; and if so, why are my 360 colors so pale over this connection?

I also believe that all my cables are hooked up properly. Like I said, the HD70 looks good 75% of the time (unless there is green in the scene 100% of the time), it's the other 25% that bothers me. I set my Dish Network HD box to 720P, and have tried it over both HDMI and Component. I feel component has the worse color settings OTB, but the HDMI isn't stellar either. VGA is solid in that greens don't appear to be blown out, but then again, all the colors appear dull at the moment (I have my 360 hooked up via VGA).

Oh yeah, one more thing, do I need to mess with RGB bias at all, or will I just end up hurting myself? Let's see, 6 settings with 100 positions equals how many possible combinations? Hahaha...

Yes, my 4805 had exploding overstaturated colors via VGA. I think I may have been a bit tipsy one night and felt like seeing big bold crazy colors! This is proof that I haven't gotten accustomed to D65 or anything near perfection.

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post #251 of 2474
10/10/06 at 5:29pm
I am sure DVE has colorbars - just not sure if it has both 75IRE and 100IRE. One of the calibrators posted a how to use DVE - it is buried in the calibration forum. I think it was eliab - search for him and DVE...here it is

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7913037

I don't use DVE - never made it past the insane menu structure...

Only play with bias if the dark greys look to be pushing towards a color once you get the brites done with the gains - use a greyscale pattern for bias. If the dark greys look red - cut blue/green. You will need to redo brightness/contrast calibration when you are done!

And don't start with someone elses settings. Go to the user preset mod and zero everything out except the RGB gain/bias menu. Go the the menu that has the factory reset and start with those gain/bias settings. You will have to decide if Yellow looks green - do you cut green or add red. Without test gear it is hard to know when you adjust at the 75IRE patterns - adding red will just make it cartoony. So 100IRE pattern is better - if you are out of red nothing will change when you try to add red.
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post #252 of 2474
10/10/06 at 5:33pm
Some of you may be interest to know what is the maximum viewing distance.

Normal human eyes with 20/20 vision should be able to resolve an angular resolution of about 1/60 degree. (or 1 minute)

Base on this number, viewer may not be see able to see all the details of a 480p image if sit 2.6x from the screen.
720p viewer should sit only 1.8x from the screen.
1080p viewer should sit only 1.2x from the screen!
(Yes, this is very close, but this number is true at least for me, using a 1080p test pattern)

However, most HD video (except some test patterns) are highly compressed are not really that HD 99% of the time - so sitting a little farther is usually OK.

At 2x distance, an average user may not be able to see every pixels of a 720p image clearly. However, at this distance, most user should be able to notice a 720p image has more details than a 480p image.



[quote=cavu]Generally, yes. The accepted minimum viewing distances are as follows:[list][*]480p 2x screen width[*]576p 1.67x screen width[*]720p 1.33x screen width
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post #253 of 2474
10/10/06 at 5:34pm
How many owners of HD70s are there on AVS? This "different out of the box unit" thing is a bit disconcerting. One thing that I enjoy about AVS is that I tend to drag 6-12 months behind and let pioneers deal with the bugspraying. Nothing is more satisfying than upgrading, coming here and getting the verified numbers to just plug in the day of purchase, and watch from there. (Sure, there's always going to be small tweaks to be done or found later, but a good, solid start is always nice.)

I'm not a tweakophile, so I fully appreciate early adopters and calibration addicts, as well as critics, because without them, I'd spend whole weekends fussing instead of watching sports. So, I formally give my thanks to all persons that post, be it; those with questions I might not think to ask, those with knowledge of calibration in general, those with comparative references to well-known PJs, those that own the units themselves, those that forget more in a single day than I'll learn in a lifetime, and...well, everyone...even those that berate and degrade, because they remind me try not be that way myself, even though I can be sometimes.
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post #254 of 2474
10/10/06 at 5:36pm
Sorry, just had to throw this in....
This is the "HD70 Tweakers Thread"
A "tweak" is a fix for problems or improvement of a device with limitations.
You can't "tweak" without knowing the problems and limitations. Right?
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post #255 of 2474
10/10/06 at 5:36pm
[quote=yauwing]Some of you may be interest to know what is the maximum viewing distance.

Normal human eyes with 20/20 vision should be able to resolve an angular resolution of about 1/60 degree. (or 1 minute)

Base on this number, viewer may not be see able to see all the details of a 480p image if sit 2.6x from the screen.
720p viewer should sit only 1.8x from the screen.
1080p viewer should sit only 1.2x from the screen!
(Yes, this is very close, but this number is true at least for me, using a 1080p test pattern)

However, most HD video (except some test patterns) are highly compressed are not really that HD 99% of the time - so sitting a little farther is usually OK.

At 2x distance, an average user may not be able to see every pixels of a 720p image clearly. However, at this distance, most user should be able to notice a 720p image has more details than a 480p image.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

Generally, yes. The accepted minimum viewing distances are as follows:[list][*]480p 2x screen width[*]576p 1.67x screen width[*]720p 1.33x screen width


The angular discrimination of 20/20 vision does have you set further than the rules cavu posted. The rules are a tradeoff of SDE vs. digital artifacts being seen vs. decent screen size. So I would plan on the 4/3 width rule - but if you have lousy sources and great vision - maybe want to sit in the back row! Others are willing to trade off for screen size! With HDDVD being artifact free - it seems less of an issue now!
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post #256 of 2474
10/10/06 at 6:22pm
cavu was talking about the minimum acceptable distance, I was talking about maximum viewing distance (at full resolution).
so there is no real conflicts between these two numbers.

Actually a sitting distance between these 2 numbers could be the sweet spot for viewing 480p and 720p video - not applicale for 1080p though because it is much less than 1x to see any SDE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

[

The angular discrimination of 20/20 vision does have you set further than the rules cavu posted. The rules are a tradeoff of SDE vs. digital artifacts being seen vs. decent screen size. So I would plan on the 4/3 width rule - but if you have lousy sources and great vision - maybe want to sit in the back row! Others are willing to trade off for screen size! With HDDVD being artifact free - it seems less of an issue now!
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post #257 of 2474
10/10/06 at 6:49pm
Alright...just used both Blitz's and RedDog's numbers from this thread.

Here is a screenshot comparison. Yeah, I know, screenies are for weenies right? I don't have any meters or what-nots, so these will have to tell the story. Blitz's were still crazy on my setup, even greater blown out greens than OTB. Some channels and shows looked fine...I guess, until you hit greens and yellows in the pic. RedDog's numbers seemed a bit more realistic, but almost too faded, and the image came across as grainy in my book...maybe this is the CR hit that happens when you get closer to realistic colors.

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz1.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog1.JPG

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz2.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog2.JPG

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz3.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog3.JPG

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz4.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog4.JPG

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz5.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog5.JPG

They aren't an exact comparison...I don't have the HD-DVR in the basement, but they are of the same channels. One is NFLHD, one is FOXHD, and the other DSCHD. This is over HDMI.
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post #258 of 2474
10/10/06 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WyattERP View Post

Alright...just used both Blitz's and RedDog's numbers from this thread.

Here is a screenshot comparison. Yeah, I know, screenies are for weenies right? I don't have any meters or what-nots, so these will have to tell the story. Blitz's were still crazy on my setup, even greater blown out greens than OTB. Some channels and shows looked fine...I guess, until you hit greens and yellows in the pic. RedDog's numbers seemed a bit more realistic, but almost too faded, and the image came across as grainy in my book...maybe this is the CR hit that happens when you get closer to realistic colors.

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz1.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog1.JPG

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz2.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog2.JPG

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz3.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog3.JPG

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz4.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog4.JPG

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz5.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog5.JPG

They aren't an exact comparison...I don't have the HD-DVR in the basement, but they are of the same channels. One is NFLHD, one is FOXHD, and the other DSCHD. This is over HDMI.

RedDog's looks spectacular compared to the blitz images. I can't believe you think that's too faded!!!! You guys must like watching a cartoony image or something lol.
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post #259 of 2474
10/10/06 at 7:33pm
Let me restate...RedDog's settings looked pretty darn good actually. I didn't give his attempts at calibration the credit they deserve. The color is MUCH better than OTB, in fact, I probably would be fine with his settings. The problem is when you see it in motion, you realize that there is a penalty for this accuracy in some way. Is it CR? Is it something else? I don't know. Maybe I just have been blinded by the OTB settings with the crazy BrilliantColor seering ridiculously intense images into my cornea or something.
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post #260 of 2474
10/10/06 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WyattERP View Post

Let me restate...RedDog's settings looked pretty darn good actually. I didn't give his attempts at calibration the credit they deserve. The color is MUCH better than OTB, in fact, I probably would be fine with his settings. The problem is when you see it in motion, you realize that there is a penalty for this accuracy in some way. Is it CR? Is it something else? I don't know. Maybe I just have been blinded by the OTB settings with the crazy BrilliantColor seering ridiculously intense images into my cornea or something.


My gut tells me you've been blinded, but I could be wrong. I think if you really gave it a try, and left it alone for a week or two, you would get used to what the colors are supposed to look like.

There's a reason manufacturers push colors, it's b/c people see brighter colors and think that means better tv!!!! So it's natural to want to gravitate towards the super saturated/bright image.
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post #261 of 2474
10/10/06 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladyr1 View Post

RedDog's looks spectacular compared to the blitz images. I can't believe you think that's too faded!!!! You guys must like watching a cartoony image or something lol.

Ya, doesn't look very faded to me either. They actually look still a little too contrasty IMHO. You must definately not be used to watching D65. Of couse this objective opinion is based on screenies so...
Thanks for the comparison.
BTW, that one shot with the airplane in the picture?... is it supposed to be white? Doesn't look white, has blue or green tint or something. I was waiting to see a "RedDog calibration" shot of that plane and there was none. Bummer. I'd like to see that shot comparison of the whites.
Thanks again.
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post #262 of 2474
10/10/06 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Ya, doesn't look very faded to me either. They actually look still a little too contrasty IMHO. You must definately not be used to watching D65. Of couse this objective opinion is based on screenies so...
Thanks for the comparison.
BTW, that one shot with the airplane in the picture?... is it supposed to be white? Doesn't look white, has blue or green tint or something. I was waiting to see a "RedDog calibration" shot of that plane and there was none. Bummer. I'd like to see that shot comparison of the whites.
Thanks again.

Your wish is my command...the same show cycled through on DSCHD tonight, so I captured one using RedDog's tweaks.

You can use the same link as before, but I'll re-post the links (make sure you hit refresh on your browser if the HD70 image isn't of the LCDR and the airplane!):

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz2.JPG
http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...70_RedDog2.JPG

Blitz's cal = awful on my machine
RedDog = Maybe this will do it for me. I'd love to see what Kraz's results produced.

BTW, I may not be completely used to D65, but I certainly notice the bad color on this PJ OTB. And why does BrilliantColor make such a drastic change to color even from 0-1? Yeah, the added "punch" can be nice, but it changes the colors drastically!
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post #263 of 2474
10/10/06 at 9:55pm
WyattERP

Brilliant Color is blowing out the peak whites - the control varies how brite it gets and how far down in white it goes. It exposes more of the natively flourescent cyan lamp - I presume thru a clear segment. It also increases the gamma - which shortchanges highlites and shadows for more subjective contrast - combined with increased real contrast. This is most telling in the plane pic - in which the white clearly color shifts - as well as loses highlite detail in the reflections.

Brilliant Color 0 - is not off - unless you also turn down the contrast.

Secondary colors are dependent on the white point - which is why I suggested calibrating using the 75IRE and 100IRE colorbars.

BrilliantColor is a name changed from the white peaking that TI used to call the control - because some marketing guy at TI also noted that brighter whites can also be used to make brighter colors - which are "supposedly" more brilliant....


Calibration requires turning down green and blue gains significantly. This will lower measured contrast for less pop. Also if the bit depth is not sufficient in the RGB gain controls - that can give you a grainy posterized look. You are basically compressing the dynamic range digitally. Consider your digital audio processor that has a digital vs. analog volume control - even if it is 16b audio - if you turn it down -6dB you are down to 14b audio. So some of the bits are going to be the same when they used to bit different - thus the grainyness.

They make analog RGB gains - it is what you call a CRT!

Did you readjust for your sources black and white levels - digital should be the same - but you never know!

Also there is no telling if your lamp is is more blue or more green than RedDogs - so his adjustments will not be calibrating yours. Obviously it is toning down your greens. But try the colorbars trick - you will get your orange right eventually!

RedDog actually has RGBcalibration settings from me for component vs. HDMI because they are different, as well as low vs. high lamp mode - which are also different greyscales. I also gave him a perfect calibration - and a "popped" calibration on top of those. And to top it all of I put blitz6speed's settings into the box before I sent it back
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post #264 of 2474
10/10/06 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WyattERP View Post

http://websnappy.com/imagehost/PJCom...D70_Blitz2.JPG

Holy blueness, Batman! Is the plane filled with water? (Hint: windows)
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post #265 of 2474
10/10/06 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fru View Post

I am a first time projector owner and a total noobie. I just set up my hd70 yesterday and I see the green push all over. I am using a Panasonic dvd player and components to connect.

Can somebody tell me what settings to use for colors so that the green push goes away.

Thanks

You could take a look at backing off the tint control. More advanced method is to increase the opposite colors with the RGB gain & bias. You see green then increase red & blue.
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post #266 of 2474
10/11/06 at 12:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

mobius

I guaran-damn-tee - my review - will be screenshot free!

Anyone waiting to see pretty pictures best leave now.

Just mind numbing stacks of charts....




Quote:


Anyone waiting to see pretty picture best leave now

are you insinuating I'm trailer trash ..... btw can someone help me with my throw....... I'm trying to throw a 106inch but having problems with my calculatons in my batcave.




Please no charts this is a $999 buyer thread can we just get these 3,
D65 Contrast and Lumens, and if they are... say 2000+ @ 500 lumens then I think we can say we have a winner even 1500 @ 500 Lumens @ D65 should look good for $999 720P. BUT>>> I have a feeling CHARTS are in our future.
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post #267 of 2474
10/11/06 at 12:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrhomes View Post

Please no charts this is a $999 buyer thread can we just get these 3,
D65 Contrast and Lumens, and if they are... say 2000+ @ 500 lumens then I think we can say we have a winner even 1500 @ 500 Lumens @ D65 should look good for $999 720P. BUT>>> I have a feeling CHARTS are in our future.

D65
____ CR @ ____ Lumens =

2000+ @ 500 = ice cold

1500 @ 500 = cold (but getting warmer to the sacrificed numbers)

Any other numbers will have to come straight from reddog (if he decides to post them) .

I will say that the sacrificed numbers resulted in a decent image with reasonable depth ( certainly much more enjoyable to watch for the average viewer vs. the true D65 numbers and far superior to out of the box ) .

-------- Jason
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post #268 of 2474
10/11/06 at 1:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

cyberheater

something screwy is lost interpretation - he said he got 2250:1 in the uncalibrated out of box - but 2500:1 tweaked to D65...find out if he did any filter or IRIS tweaks - or if he had true AI engaged.

Yes, something does seem a bit odd there. I'll ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

But surely you can see that D65 tweaking without such tricks is never going to increase the contrast! Look at where he started in the first CIE diagram- very greenish. Green is responsible for luminance and contrast. So clearly he had to cut green to accomplish the D65 goal a lot - which means a lot of luminance and contrast will be cut.

The only way I know to increase contrast from the stock settings is to use a CC filter to enable the unit to drive all colours to the max. He does not appear to have done this. I will ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

Are you sure he is talking about the HD70 when he quoted that number - as someone else brought up other boxes in that thread - maybe he was referring to those calibrations!

Absolutely talking about the HD70. He said that the HD70 calibrated is very close to the HD72i.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

Do you read german - I get germanglish from alta vista....or I take it the cyberheater in that thread is you?

My German is probably as bad as yours. And yes. That is me in the thread.


One more thing. I believe the marketting spec for CR for this unit is 4000:1.
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post #269 of 2474
10/11/06 at 1:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

D65
____ CR @ ____ Lumens =

2000+ @ 500 = ice cold

1500 @ 500 = cold (but getting warmer to the sacrificed numbers)

Any other numbers will have to come straight from reddog (if he decides to post them) .

I will say that the sacrificed numbers resulted in a decent image with reasonable depth ( certainly much more enjoyable to watch for the average viewer vs. the true D65 numbers and far superior to out of the box ) .

-------- Jason

Either publish all the figures / charts etc... or not at all. Your constant hinting at poor performance is only providing heat, not illumination into this thread.
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post #270 of 2474
10/11/06 at 3:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberheater View Post

Either publish all the figures / charts etc... or not at all. Your constant hinting at poor performance is only providing heat, not illumination into this thread.

As I stated it is not up to me to post the exact numbers . I am just responding to people that keep referencing back to the CR & Lumen specs .

I am not hinting at anything as I think I have pretty clearly stated that the true D65 calibration = poor performance . If the actual D65 calibrated numbers (CR & Lumens) are posted by reddog then I'm outa here because the thread will most certainly go off the deep end once again . Maybe it would be better at this point if he did not post the numbers , people just keep getting bent out of shape when the truth is told .

There is only 'heat' for those that do not wish to seek the truth and become illuminated .

--- Best Wishes ,
------- Jason
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