Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 53

Originally Posted by reincarnate

I viewed the 70" XBR2 display for the first time recently and was impressed. The first attribute was the depth of image was similar to the best plasma. The second was Sony has tamed the color saturation so that the previous over-the-top garishness is gone. Convergence look pretty good with no obvious coloring fringing. Very little noise or artifacting. Detail was excellent. Wow factor was very high.
This is the first SXRD that I've been impressed with. Just as with JVC, it took Sony about five generations to get the kinks out of the LCoS technology. Manufacturing very thin liquid crystal panels without side effects was very difficult technical challenge indeed. Most other RPTVs look a bit flat in comparison. Congratulations go to Sony on their long awaited turn-around.

Originally Posted by EricBergan

...

My Configurations

As for my configuration, I have a VP-50, so typically I have my DVD (an older Sony DVP-S9000ES) feeding 480i into the VP-50, which then sends 1080p to the XBR2.

For the test, I also sent 480i directly from the 9000ES into the XBR2's component input, and configured it based on KT's settings. In particular, I used DRC Mode 1, and Cinemotion Auto. I did not try and tweak the colors, so I'm not in a position to talk about overall PQ in this configuration.

Results

On the diner cadence scenes, both did fine with 2*3, as you would expect. The VP-50 seemed smoother on the 2*2 - maybe the Cinemotion on Auto wasn't detecting? But it was a minor difference. On the torture cadences, the VP-50 tended to do a little better, but most people are not going to run into these.

On the race car cadence scenes, the XBR2's internal scaler on everything but 2*3 had a serious moire pattern across the seats during the pan. The VP-50 would sometimes also have a moire for a split second, and then the image would clean up.

On the rotating line jaggie test, the XBR2 would show a heavy stairstep jaggie on some orientations of the line along the length of the line. The VP-50 would show a slight "rippling" at the very end of the line, but otherwise the length of the line was straight.

The XBR2 struggled with the harder sections of the ropes/ship/hockey/bridge video sections. Jaggies and moire patterns would appear on diagonal lines as the picture was panning. The VP50 showed some slight moire on the bridge scene, but otherwise rendered the lines cleanly.

The XBR2 couldn't handle the horizontal scrolling text, there were lines all through the text. The VP-50 had no problem.

Conclusion/To Be Determined

So, what does this all mean?

The VP-50 costs about half what the 70" XBR2 does, so it's not a cheap accessory. Perhaps not surprisingly, it does a better job of scaling SD then the XBR2 does when presented with very tough sequences. How does this relate to everyday SD? Since I didn't really calibrate the color for that configuration this is a somewhat suspect observation, but with a good SD source (i.e. not highly compressed DirecTV), the VP50 makes the image approach HD - the structure of the picture seems more natural and better defined, presumably due to the lack of moire/jag artifacts that it does a better job with.

Is it a good value in this combination? That probably depends on how sensitive you are to some of these issues in an SD picture. I'm a little curious how much of the "noise" that some people are seeing, might actually be scaling artifacts that the VP-50 handles cleanly.

A couple closing observations. First, my DVD player is old. It does have progressive output, but I learned that feeding a 480i signal (as opposed to 480p) to the VP-50 gives a better picture. But, if you have an upconverting DVD player, there is yet another scaler in the picture, that might handle some of these problems better then the XBR2 does.

Second, this was all with SD. The VP-50 also does HD scaling/de-interlacing, but I only have an HR10-250 to test this with, and that's not a very reliable source. I have informally played with it, and it looks like the VP-50 certainly does better with a 720p source then the XBR2 does on its own. I'd have to say the jury is out on 1080i source until I have a more reliable source.

...

eric

Originally Posted by JimP

chazk,

Using a bias light or at least having a little room light on is usually enough to relieve eye strain.

Originally Posted by suncom3

I have found a demo model xbr1 at CC,was trying to decide to get it for the sale price of $2800 Vs going with the xbr2 for $3700. Wonder if it would be better to get the CC extended warr,or how do you go about getttin the warr from sony direct

Maybe upgrade to the xbr2 later on when the price drops yet again? what should I do?3k was as high as I told myself id ever pay for a tv,lol.My disease is still more of a infection,not as full blown as some of you here lol

Originally Posted by suncom3

I have found a demo model xbr1 at CC,was trying to decide to get it for the sale price of $2800 Vs going with the xbr2 for $3700. Wonder if it would be better to get the CC extended warr,or how do you go about getttin the warr from sony direct

Maybe upgrade to the xbr2 later on when the price drops yet again? what should I do?3k was as high as I told myself id ever pay for a tv,lol.My disease is still more of a infection,not as full blown as some of you here lol

Originally Posted by rhlitt

Speaker question...anyone figure out a way to attach the side speakers of the XBR2 to your amp to use them as your front speakers as part of your 5.1 setup? Any tips appreciated!

Originally Posted by maximum360

I was almost set to get the 60" XBR2 but now I'm considering the 70". :/

Someone talk some sense into me, please.

Originally Posted by rlb

That would be tough. Believe they are 10 or 15 watt speakers. Your other speakers are probably for use with something like 50-150 watt amps. Sensitivity is also probably significantly different that your other speakers. Bottom line: At best they won't increase/decrease the same with volumne control as your other speakers; and at worst (probably likely) you will "blow them up" with the significantly greater power your amp/receiver puts out than what they are designed for.

Originally Posted by reincarnate

I viewed the 70" XBR2 display for the first time recently and was impressed. The first attribute was the depth of image was similar to the best plasma. The second was Sony has tamed the color saturation so that the previous over-the-top garishness is gone. Convergence look pretty good with no obvious coloring fringing. Very little noise or artifacting. Detail was excellent. Wow factor was very high.
This is the first SXRD that I've been impressed with. Just as with JVC, it took Sony about five generations to get the kinks out of the LCoS technology. Manufacturing very thin liquid crystal panels without side effects was very difficult technical challenge indeed. Most other RPTVs look a bit flat in comparison. Congratulations go to Sony on their long awaited turn-around.

Originally Posted by thrang

Too bad you don't have more reliable 1080i sources to evaluate this (curious you invested in such a set with such a paucity of HD material to watch on it!)

Originally Posted by thrang

Also curious about your comment about "noise," as you imply the scaling/deinterlacing of the VP 50 seemed to reduce this, though since you were referring to SD sources, I'm not sure it applies to what I'm seeing on my set - universally described as mosquito noise and block artifacting due to source compression (largely on my cable box signal, both SD and HD channels).

Originally Posted by thrang

In conversations with a DVDO rep, he strongly implied that adding noise reduction capabilities to the VP-50 was possible via firmware updates, and that, while not officially stated, this was an area there was "activity" in.

Originally Posted by thrang

(I read somewhere Teranex wholesales the chip in used in $3,000 third party processors for about $50. That doesn't seem sustainable)

Originally Posted by Jeremybe

I'm pretty dissapointed in my XBR2 - I'm wondering if I have a bad set since I was wowed in the store - Many of the images appear blurry and not sharp at all - I have a Dish VIP 622 HD DVR - When I pull up the on screen guide to select a channel its blurry and almost gives me a headache - After watching TV for 15 minutes or so I need to turn away because its so annoying - Any thoughts as to what it is??? My picture is anything but sharp...

I'm going nuts and I'm quite upset

Originally Posted by thrang

Are other sources blurry? How is it connected? Component? HDMI? If component, try chanigng the cables

Are HD channels blurry too, or just SD?

I'm not familiar with that Dish box, but see if there is the ability to select what formats it outputs, and if it has something like this, set it to output 480i, 720p, and 1080i - you must be connected via HDMI or component for this to matter.

Otherwise, it sounds like you do have a bad set - blurriness is not an option with a properly working set being fed the proper signals.

Originally Posted by Jeremybe

I'm pretty dissapointed in my XBR2 - I'm wondering if I have a bad set since I was wowed in the store - Many of the images appear blurry and not sharp at all - I have a Dish VIP 622 HD DVR - When I pull up the on screen guide to select a channel its blurry and almost gives me a headache - After watching TV for 15 minutes or so I need to turn away because its so annoying - Any thoughts as to what it is??? My picture is anything but sharp...

I'm going nuts and I'm quite upset

Originally Posted by chazk

First time posting here and I first want to echo sentiments I've heard from others, you folks have been so helpful for me in learning about this HDTV world. So, I have a question I haven't noticed discussion on, and that has to do with the new XBR2 brighter bulb. I've heard lot's of comments here about how wonderfully bright it is. Then a few comments about how eyes/head started hurting after a couple hours, though this seemed to get attributed to 70" possibly being too big or sitting too close. So it leaves me wondering if this new bright bulb may be too bright? Or a brightness that may get bit grating over time? Or a brightness that may start to seem bit less 'natural'?
I'm poised to finally join the HDTV club with my first purchase of 60xbr2 and I'm coming from another era having lived with a 24" sony trinitron for past six years. So, it's going to be quite a change and, like many here, I'm just trying to head off possible issues at the pass. One thing that may be challenging about this query is the xbr2's may not have been out long enough for folks here to decide or know yet how this brighter picture works over longer term relationship? And once again, thanks for all you folks input and passion for this ever evolving home cinema world.

Originally Posted by reincarnate

I viewed the 70" XBR2 display for the first time recently and was impressed. The first attribute was the depth of image was similar to the best plasma. The second was Sony has tamed the color saturation so that the previous over-the-top garishness is gone. Convergence look pretty good with no obvious coloring fringing. Very little noise or artifacting. Detail was excellent. Wow factor was very high.
This is the first SXRD that I've been impressed with. Just as with JVC, it took Sony about five generations to get the kinks out of the LCoS technology. Manufacturing very thin liquid crystal panels without side effects was very difficult technical challenge indeed. Most other RPTVs look a bit flat in comparison. Congratulations go to Sony on their long awaited turn-around.

Originally Posted by jdroh

I'm currently using the EricBergan settings from the tweaks thread, which seem adequate for now. I'll wait to see how the colors shift as the bulb ages.

o My PS2 with 480i component output to the TV doesn't look that good, mostly due to high-frequency noise (mosquito noise?) noticiable in solid color areas and there are some faint halos around backlit objects--which may be just be from the DVD player.

o My very old Pioneer dvd player (S-video only) looks about the same as the PS2 component--but I haven't really been watching that one very much.

Originally Posted by KTTV Images

except that I find the problem is not white crush -but is instead a color shift to Cyan that can appear to wash out some details in faces etc..

Originally Posted by AikenGhoti

It's less of a shift to cyan and more of a clamping/saturation/crushing of red. Red is pushed by about 5-10%, depending on who did the measurements, and as far as I can tell, color temperature settings effectively adjust red bias & gain up, and blue down. Those two things seem to increase red to the point that it is at 100% when the actual framebuffer value is only about 85-90%. If the framebuffer value is any higher, it'll just get clamped, while lower values in blue and green (as with flesh, or even with white when color temp. is warm) still have room to increase. In the end it appears to be a shift to cyan, but it's actually clamping/crushing red while green and blue continue to rise. That's why the solution is to reduce the scale on all three via Picture, to give red the headroom it needs.

Originally Posted by AikenGhoti

It's less of a shift to cyan and more of a clamping/saturation/crushing of red. Red is pushed by about 5-10%, depending on who did the measurements, and as far as I can tell, color temperature settings effectively adjust red bias & gain up, and blue down. Those two things seem to increase red to the point that it is at 100% when the actual framebuffer value is only about 85-90%. If the framebuffer value is any higher, it'll just get clamped, while lower values in blue and green (as with flesh, or even with white when color temp. is warm) still have room to increase. In the end it appears to be a shift to cyan, but it's actually clamping/crushing red while green and blue continue to rise. That's why the solution is to reduce the scale on all three via Picture, to give red the headroom it needs.