Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 2

Hi MD, when you get a chance can you please comment on the how long it takes to power on? Notice Any color changes during startup? Also, in SD 4:3, do the vertical black bars look straight? How does a DVD/SD look in 4:3 overall (if you one available). Thanks!

MD, many of us are curious as to how the 2.5 chip performs with sports motion with weaker HD feeds. I find that the A10 handles this in a much smoother manner than the A2000. I am watching the Ohio St. / Iowa game now on the A2000 and it is perfect, so it may take a few days of football to really notice if it is real smooth or not. Thanks.

I am totally jealous! Guys....if I am sitting 14 feet away, at the longest distance from my sectional sofa, and 12 feet at the closest distance......is the 70" too large? Will it not look as clear from this distance as the 60"? Help....I want the 70" now!!

Recommeded minimum distance for the 70" is 8 feet (pg. 15 of the owner's guide). So, you're good to go...

MD...You mention the XBR2 is brighter than the XBR1. Brighter good or bad in terms of dialing the black levels? Thanks!

thanks for the info...now to convince the wife to let me spend the difference!

Annother suggestion;
You do not want to -or need to - change modes for day or night viewing. Simply lower the Iris control at night and raise it in the daytime. If the set is always too bright lower the lamp power and leave it low.

KT

How much better is the picture from the XBR1...in your opinion. 5%, 10%...more?

How does your HD-DVD look? Must be awesome at 8 ft.

Well, the only significant difference between the two is DRC 2.5, which presumably would have little effect outside of 720p and 1080i sources.

I'm not sure you can generalize an improvement as a overall percentage.

Just curious. I love my XBR1 and was curious about the differences since he owns both. He has an advantage. And the brighter bulb...I run mine in reduced power because standard can be a bit bright.

My Pioneer 510HD is a 53" RPTV, so you probably had one of the 5x0HD models as well. If you're happy with the XBR2 picture, that bodes well. Even for several years after I got it, I saw no sets with a picture better than the 510's, so a close or better competitor will probably suit me just fine. I'm a little less worried now.

Mixdoctor, here's some suggested settings from a review of the A2000:

"KDS-60A2000 offers more settings to adjust its iris than any other HDTV I've seen: Min, Low, Medium, High, Max, and two Auto modes. After starting out at Min to derive the deepest blacks, I eventually found the increased brightness of the Medium setting to provide the best compromise between good blacks and the dynamic punch I was looking for. Likewise, there are several settings for Gamma, which can be used to extract details from shadows without dramatically affecting the overall brightness of the image. The Off setting resulted in deep, inky blacks, but washed out virtually all the shadow details in dark scenes. The Low Gamma setting brought up the detail just enough to give dark scenes nice depth while retaining good blacks.

"Beyond this, the set has a number of other advanced picture processing options, most of which I eventually left off. But the High setting for Noise Reduction really helped clean up crappy 480i broadcasts without affecting higher-quality sources."

Might be the same for the XBR2.

I think they might be different!

Can anyone comment on the horizontal AND the vertical viewing angles? At what point do you begin to notice a degradation in picture quality or brightness?

Are we allowed to post if we are not OFFICIAL owners yet? I wanted to post my experiences shopping for this set today. I drove 160 miles roundtrip to and from suburban Chicago to check out the 70XBR2. I realized about 30 minutes into my trip that I had forgotten my digital camera, so I apologize in advance for lack of pix.

My first stop was ABT Electronics in Glenview, IL. My initial impression was how gigantic this set looked. The side speakers (dumbo ears) were still attached. The first thing I watched was an OTA HD local channel...a Garbage concert....looked like it was a possible local DVR replay or something. It was definitely HD, but I was pretty dissapointed in how it looked. There was considerable noise around the edges of the band members and the image was somewhat grainy. I asked the salesmen about it and they said their local HD signal was not being split several ways and that's "the way it should look at home." The set was on WARM2, and I can't recall all the various settings. I tried tweaking them but it didn't seem to make much of a difference. I attributed this to a poor signal...or at least, hoped that was the case.

Not being very impressed, I then had to beg to get them to hook up a Samsung Blu-ray Player and Toshiba?? HD-DVD player. Just finding the correct remotes was a challenge. They did not have the Samsung Blu-Ray Demo Disc, so they put on "House of Flying Daggers" instead. It looked quite poor...very grainy indeed, even by the salesmen's standards. They agreed it didn't look very good, and one of them inferred that it was the way the movie was shot. Having seen the Demo Disc on a 720p Samsung plasma set earlier in the week (which looked great), I was miffed that they didn't have the Demo Disc. One of the salesmen said the Demo Disc is recorded or transferred at a higher bit rate?? than most Blu-Ray movies and should NOT be taken as an indicator of what normal Blu-Ray movies will look like. Being quite dismayed at this point, I had map-quested directions to the SonyStyle Store in Schaumburg, IL and was determined to get a "second opinion" and perhaps check out some different movies and a better cable or satellite HD signal. Before I did, I was able to see how the HD-DVD player looked on the 70XBR2. For whatever reason, HD-DVD looked considerably better than the Blu-Ray did. We saw a few scenes from "Apollo 13" and "Serenity" and it looked as good as any HD content I've ever seen on an HDTV (cable, satellite included). My thought was that Blu-Ray has a lot of catching up to do...but that's for another thread.

Upon arriving at the SonyStyle Store for my next stop, my initial impressions were VERY much better. They had a Directv feed...and the soft edges and video noise around the edges of objects were not present this time. DiscoveryHD looked fantastic. I asked them to put on an ESPNHD college game (or perhaps it was ESPN2HD) and the set really did well here. An old 60XBR1 was next to it and looked (IMHO) better with the Directv stuff...but that's for later.

The SonyStyle salesmen put in the Blu-Ray Demo Disc (at long last!!) and it looked fantastic. He also did not agree with the ABT dude, saying that this is "pretty much how the Blu-Ray movies are going to look." He put in "House of Flying Daggers" (lovely? no)....and it looked the same as in the ABT demonstration. I asked him if he had any other Blu-Ray movies he could play and he said that SonyStyle stores are NOT ALLOWED to play anything but "House of Flying Daggers." I was stunned to hear this. I asked, "What if I buy a Blu-Ray movie here? Could we play it then?" He said yes. So I purchased "Crash", a movie I love and intended to buy one day anyway. To my absolute relief, "Crash" looked great...the first time during the day that the Blu-Ray looked outstanding on the 70XBR2. The film was slightly grainy, but in a natural, matte-like way...much like in the theater. It was not soft and fuzzy like "Daggers."

As I said before, the 60XBR1 seemed to display a cleaner HD Directv picture than the 70XBR2. The SonyStyle salesman said the XBR2 upconverts everything to 1080p, which is why that may be the case. If the XBR1 would just treat a 1080p input well, it would be my choice....but alas, he said there are major compatability issues between the XBR1 and Blu-Ray players, etc. A shame.

THE POSITIVES:
The 70XBR2 showed no motion blur and I didn't see any color uniformity problems, any hint of a green glob and no hint of a green tint either. The set looked great when displaying college football and even fast-moving graphics and "swoosh" graphics sliding across the screen after commercials did not produce ANY pixellation. I was very impressed with that.

When the set was given a great Blu-Ray transfer, like "Crash", the television excelled. It looked natural and lifelike. I made the salesman put on the fire-car-escape scene, when Dillon pulls the girl from the car. It looked spectacular...no pixellation....no motion blur. It looked awesome.

The sound quality of this set was surprisingly good, with the speakers attached. The SonyStyle Store had the speakers DETACHED...but ABT had them still attached and I was surprised how good they sounded. With "Apollo 13", however, it was difficult to hear the dialogue sometimes. The surround sound stuff seemed to dominate. I should add that I didn't really tweak the audio settings as much as I should have.

THE NEGATIVES:
I was more-or-less mixed in my reaction to how OTA HD looked on the set. I hate to form an impression based on one viewing. The Directv feed looked MUCH better, in comparison. I am concerned that getting a tv of this size will make even slightly inferior HD signals look like garbage.

As I have mentioned, if you get a "less than stellar" Blu-Ray transfer, the result will look like standard DVD or worse. The bottom line, is that this set seems to enhance flaws much more than previous models.

MY DILEMMA:
I have room for a 70" in my living room but I am also stunned and in love with the Samsung plasma S5073. But I'm a sucker for size and don't know what to do at this point. I end this day more confused than when I began it. I was hoping to be blown away completely by the 70XBR2, but honestly...I think I will need to see more of it before I make my decision. I am going to likely wait until this set is available in my immediate area before making that decision...so I can more leisurely check out the differences between the plasma and this set. I realize comparing a 50-inch plasma to this set is like comparing apples and oranges, but I (and many of you as well) have to ask this question: Is this set worth 7K? I am not sure it is. A lot of question marks surround it.

I hope we all find the answers to those questions.

Disclaimer: I am also posting this in the "RELEASE DATE" thread...as I'd like to get more reaction from other potential buyers.

Thanks for reading my James Joyce-length essay.

I think you have a predisposed disposition against Sony.... and why dont you explain why INYHO the directv stuff looked better on the XBR1..in what way? I think it is hilarious how Sony hatters come on these threadz to do a little bashing...Oh by the way everyone I cant decide betwwen the 60XBR2 and the new JVC 110 incher...I mean I know its like comparing Benz's to Hyundai's but....
DuDe save it

Pics of the 70" XBR2 are below.

For your reference, here are some relevant equipment I have at my disposal:

Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player (via HDMI)
Denon DVD-5910 SD-DVD player (via HDMI)
Hughes HD satellite receiver (via component)
Xbox 360

First - I don't observe any of the color uniformity problems that I saw with my 60" A2000 (I had a red blob).

Second- obviously the stand I was using for my A2000 is now too tall and will have to be replaced with something lower.

The TV is HUGE, almost too big for my room but I think this will become less apparent over time and with the lower stand. I moved my couch back even further to accomodate. I though that my 60" was small, hence part of the reason (in addition to the red blob) why I wanted to exchange it for the 70".

SSE/SDE is similar to 60" A2000 which is saying a little because now I have the larger screen so you would think that this should have been more noticeable.

I have implemented the settings provided above (thanks).

I have sampled a few HD-DVDs and SD-DVDs and was generally impressed with what I saw, and did catch myself saying wow a few times - not sure yet if it was totally worthwhile spending the extra $3k. Satellite SD and HD definately looked improved over the A2000, but I don't put much into this until I get an MPEG-4 based sat receiver. I watched a little college football tonight and it seemed to perform much better regarding motion blur. I will know more after sitting and watching NFL all day tomorrow on Sunday ticket.

Anyway, objective tests are probably of more value to you all and I did find something shocking when I went to re-run the Vertrez tests that had run previously with the A2000 (details here). I was interested in finding how well it did motion adaptive interlacing using Vertrez Motion test. What shocked me here was the top block of lines in this and in the Vertrez (non-motion) test were blinking collectively (please refer to picture from previous test in above link - reference the word HERE in the pic to see what I am talking about).

Does this mean that the set is not doing a proper weave deinterlace when the A2000 showed that it was (all lines within this block were distinct).

I find this very disturbing unless I am misinterpreting something. Up until I ran this test I was convinced (albeit subjectively) that the XBR2 was a definate upgrade over the A2000. So, how can this test fail?

EDIT: apparently the above test behavior depends on the DRC mode. I had had it set to mode 1 per the prior recommendations. I just tried it with DRC off and got the same results as with the A2000. Also, with the DRC mode off, the Vertrez motion test results appeared similar to the A2000 - so it is doing region based adapting instead of per pixel (which I remember reading here before that someone claimed the XBR1 could do - probably not though).

What can I say about the above salesman's input.

Everything he said is wrong.

1. Of course the XBR1 upconverts whatever it is fed to 1080p so it will match the native display. So does the XBR2 if the input is not already 1080p.

2. There are no major compatability issues between the XBR1 and Blue Ray Players. It is well known the Samsung Blue Ray players are not ready for prime time, and for movies it make no difference if the source player outputs 1080i or 1080p. Repeat - no difference.

3. It is well known the Toshiba HD DVD player outperforms the current Samsung Blue ray player.
By the way the Blue Ray Demo disk is generally thought to be recorded at a higher bit rate than the disks you can purchase. --which is a demo deception on the part of the Blue ray camp. And note that sony Style store use their own demo players.

4. The only HD DVD test worth anything at the present time is to use the Toshiba Player with HDMI output set for 1080i . Try "The Phantom of the Opera" on the Sony SXRD -either one - with the DRC set to 50:1 (mode 1 on the XBR2) and you will see an oustanding image.
No one will need to explain away a problem to you with that demo.

Oh-and we still don't know if the XBR2 is any better than the XBR1.
Jury is out.

KT

Mr. Foo , Thank you, for all the info you provide for these threads....How does the xbox 360 look??? I am also intrested in the objective tests.. hope she can so better on the others ones

Excellent testing Mr Foo.
Now the question is ,,,what is going on. What will help is if you can give us a clear idea of how you setup to run this test:

1. The source, I assume, was a special 480i test DVD disk that you made..is that right?

2. Did you setup the DVD player to scale the output 1080i? ..and was it the Denon or the toshiba?

3. Did you play it through an HDMi input on the XBR2.

4. Did the source indicate the signal coming in was 1080i (click on the display button and it will show you the source format).

5. If the input was a 480i source upscaled to 1080i in the player -then you should have your choice of 2 DRC modes 1, and 2. If the input is not 1080i you should only have access to Mode 1.

Now, What happens in mode 1. Is it correct that you see flashing black and white blocks instead of individual horizontal lines?

What settings are you using for the DRC palette?
Could you please try running the DRC palette in mode 1 from say 75/1 to 1/1? Does this flashing behavior go away when the DRC is set to 1/1? I bring this up because your tests on the a2000 could not have involved the DRC because there was no palette available for 1080i input (in other words the DRC was off -by definition) in your tests of the a2000. Make sense?

And what happens in mode 2?

And, last , is it correct that the the flashing blocks stop and you see all horizontal lines only when you turn off the DRC?

Thanks
KT

Edited questions and added comments on a2000 not having DRC palette at 1080i.

Got the sony 60 inch just in time for the ohio state game. Looks great... Really didn't have time to mess with the options.. Will do before the Bengals Game..

The 60" is what I'm interested in. Thanks to everyone who's stopping in to give up their impressions and testing results.

In no way am I a Sony basher. Uhhhh...I am guessing you didn't read my whole post where I was very impressed with the XBR2 on my second visit of the day. I also think the 60XBR1's that I have seen are among the best tv's out there (minus those that have the green issues, of course). I was fully wanting to love this tv when I went to check it out.

And as for my deciding between the Samsung plasma and the XBR2...if you read back, you'll see that I admit it is like comparing apples to oranges. It's because I don't like any other tv's in that size range besides the Sony.

Give me a break, pay a little more attention, and read a little closer next time....or don't read at all and leave me alone.

KT, I agree with most of what you wrote but I am just telling you what I was told today. I heard from two different places today (SonyStyle and Tweeter) and managers at both places told me that there have been compatability issues between players that output 1080p and the XBR1's. Word of no audio coming out, etc....that is what they told me. They did not go into detail. I think the XBR1 is a great looking set and if I had the guts to say a prayer against Green Glob Effect and buy one, I would. It's a lot cheaper than the 70XBR2 and seems to be a good bargain at this time.

No, we still don't know if the XBR2 is any better. Is it worth 7K for ME right this minute? I say no...but maybe I will change my opinion in the future.

One thing I failed to mention that may be of interest: The Blu-Ray Player that was used at the SonyStyle Store was the SONY Blu-Ray Player (manager told me it is not yet available to the public and will be released soon...he quoted me $1000). There were a couple of moments when the video lagged on that particular Blu-Ray player during my viewing of "Crash"...almost like it was a brief pause (looked like it simulated slow motion)....and then the scene resumed. I was definitely surprised to see that and hope it can be resolved before the Sony Blu-Ray player is released to the public. I guarantee you....there will be complaints about that issue if it is not addressed.

You have a point. You may have got correct input on incompatibility between the Samsung and SXRD's if the issues are related to audio performance/behavior.

My comment was referring to Video performance. Often the salespeople do not understand what 1080i and 1080p are all about at the simplest levels. For example they will claim things like the Samsung player is better for films because it alone outputs 1080p..and The Toshiba HD DVD does not. This conclusion is totaly incorrect. For the same reason the XBR2, with 1080p input capability, has no advantage over the XBR1 for HD film.

You are agreeing with me that the sony Style stores use special (can't buy them ) Sony Blue Ray players for demos that I believe are better performing than the Samsung. However your comments on the Video lagging etc are interesting and something I will look for in future demonstrations. All Blue ray demos I have seen have been with Sony players (with Ruby and Sony Style a2000 projectors) and these -done with their demo disks -went smoothly.

For my purposes the only HD disk demos that mean anything are those with the Toshiba player and disks like "Phantom of the Opera". On my XBR1 the image is wonderfull - the best HD images I have seen. Perhaps Blue Ray will get straightened out and join the game.

KT

KT
Did you forget that our friend did play Crash Blu-ray too?

Also is not rather important how you set DRC in relation to the quality of your source. This is surely a learning curve here and some personal preference is important.

Regarding the DRC setting:

Am I hearing that I need to manually change the setting depending on whether I'm viewing SD or HD? I'll have one HDMI cable running from the cable box to the TV, and when my family channel surfs no one will want to tweak the DRC setting as they go from SD to HD to SD to HD channels.

I was really hoping that the DRC setting would be sticky based on the input signal seen by the TV.