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Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 26

post #751 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

So I take it that Mode 2 is also for externally scaled HD? There are some DVD players that go from 480i to 720p or 1080i.

It seems to be for any 480i content that has been scaled up (and only scaled) by an external device. For instance, some people are using HD cable boxes that scale all content up to 1080i, but all that's happening is a pure scale with no image processing. That's what Mode 2 seems to be for. However, for a clever DVD player that scales up AND has the equivalent of a DRC chip in it, you wouldn't want to use Mode 2, and possibly not even Mode 1. Likewise for pretty much all decent external scaler boxes.

Quote:
Also, would it be better for the DVD player to be set at 720p or 1080i before hooking it up to the TV and setting it for Mode 2?

I would assume 1080i. However, as I said, if your player is very clever already, you won't want Mode 2, and you might not need DRC at all.
post #752 of 12044
Quote:
Didn't you start a Mits owners thread? UMR will not work on some Mits because the red push is so bad. Sounds like the pot calling the kettle RED.

That would be the 731 series, basically the entry-level set from Mits. The XBR2 would compare to the 732/831 series for overall PQ and tweaking.

Supra, glad to hear about your set, though the sound diff. for the speakers is 5 watts. I don't really use mine, but didn't find the XBR2 as good as you heard. Just my .02
post #753 of 12044
Just overnighted my Cashiers check to Sony for my new 60" XBR2. Quick question. I love the stand I'm using for my 50" XBR1, it's a buffett cabinet, sits just high enough, has three drawers down the front, I use the top one just under the TV, to hold my CC speaker. There is storage on each side of the drawers with glass doors covering the storage areas. Can someone with the 60" measure the length of the base, side to side and then front to back? If someone will do that you could send a private message to me with the info, this way we won't be taking up space here, in the forums.
Thanks in advance.
post #754 of 12044
which stores are everyone finding these xbr2 in ? I see that Magnolia/BB list the 70xbr2 lists it; CC doesn't.
post #755 of 12044
I ran into another issue between the SA8300HD and my XBR2. Despite having the auto wide setting turned off on the TV every time I turn on the SA8300HD the TV zooms in on the picture giving 16:9 material gray bars on the top and bottom. Pressing the wide button on the TV remote shows the TV to still be in full screen mode and then when I press the # button on the SA8300HD remote to change it's zoom the screen blanks and either won't come back or brings up a no station snow/static screen. Upon further investigation if there is video playing it will eventually let me use the # button on the SA8300HD remote and give me the 16:9 material without the gray bars on the top and bottom but not always. If I try and use the # button on the SA8300HD remote when the SA8300HD is showing it's menu it consistently does the black/blank screen or no station snow/static screen. Is there something I'm doing wrong or is this another SA8300HD issue? I never had this problem with my KDP-65XBR2 and the SA8300HD through component inputs so I'm not sure if this is an HDMI, XBR2, or SA8300HD issue.
post #756 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpetrozelli View Post

...especially since he has Dish w/actual HD service (I'm running an OTA and basic cable direct feed btw)...

Huh? OTA HD is much better quality than satellite. And cable (especially BHN in Central Florida) can also be better than satellite. When you say OTA, are you talking about SD? That would be an odd comparison.
post #757 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpetrozelli View Post

That would be the 731 series, basically the entry-level set from Mits. The XBR2 would compare to the 732/831 series for overall PQ and tweaking.

Supra, glad to hear about your set, though the sound diff. for the speakers is 5 watts. I don't really use mine, but didn't find the XBR2 as good as you heard. Just my .02

Reincarnate is obviously not a fan of Sony. Just pointing out that other manufacturers that he favors have some factory color inaccuracies also. I agree with you that the 732/831 sets can be perfected in the perfect tint menu. Cudos to Mits for having this in their upscale models. It seems wrong to have an agenda to bash manufacturers repeatedly in this forum.
post #758 of 12044
Quote:
I ran into another issue between the SA8300HD and my XBR2. Despite having the auto wide setting turned off on the TV every time I turn on the SA8300HD the TV zooms in on the picture giving 16:9 material gray bars on the top and bottom. Pressing the wide button on the TV remote shows the TV to still be in full screen mode and then when I press the # button on the SA8300HD remote to change it's zoom the screen blanks and either won't come back or brings up a no station snow/static screen. Upon further investigation if there is video playing it will eventually let me use the # button on the SA8300HD remote and give me the 16:9 material without the gray bars on the top and bottom but not always. If I try and use the # button on the SA8300HD remote when the SA8300HD is showing it's menu it consistently does the black/blank screen or no station snow/static screen. Is there something I'm doing wrong or is this another SA8300HD issue?

It sounds like you have the wrong display modes enabled in SA8300HD setup.

With SA8300HD OFF and TV on, press Info and Guide (on box) together, choose advanced setup and follow the directions on the screen to enable 16:9 1080i, 16:9 720p, 16:9 480p, and 4:3 480i. Keep other modes disabled.

Once you've done that, press the Settings button twice to get to the General Settings. Then scroll up to Set: Picture Format. Set it to Auto HDMI/DVI.

If the resync delay when switching between SD and HD modes bothers you (as you change between SD and HD channels), then you can eliminate that by going back into SA8300HD setup and disabling all resolutions other than 16:9 1080i and 16:9 720p. Doing so will result in some quality loss on SD channels, however.
post #759 of 12044
Quote:
Huh? OTA HD is much better quality than satellite. And cable (especially BHN in Central Florida) can also be better than satellite. When you say OTA, are you talking about SD? That would be an odd comparison.

OTA as in rabbit ears (Silverstar), as compared to my neighbor who has HBO-HD, HD-Net, et al. And OTA quality will vary by proximity to tower, trees/buildings, etc. I did get Showtime HD for the weekend to try out and it looks spectacular, and that was mostly what we had in common to compare, again not side-by-side but house to house and no discernable diff. Again, I think that when properly tweaked, all of these top tier sets from each company compare favorably, and it is us buyers who benefit the most!
post #760 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravada View Post

I ran into another issue between the SA8300HD and my XBR2. Despite having the auto wide setting turned off on the TV every time I turn on the SA8300HD the TV zooms in on the picture giving 16:9 material gray bars on the top and bottom. Pressing the wide button on the TV remote shows the TV to still be in full screen mode and then when I press the # button on the SA8300HD remote to change it's zoom the screen blanks and either won't come back or brings up a no station snow/static screen. Upon further investigation if there is video playing it will eventually let me use the # button on the SA8300HD remote and give me the 16:9 material without the gray bars on the top and bottom but not always. If I try and use the # button on the SA8300HD remote when the SA8300HD is showing it's menu it consistently does the black/blank screen or no station snow/static screen. Is there something I'm doing wrong or is this another SA8300HD issue? I never had this problem with my KDP-65XBR2 and the SA8300HD through component inputs so I'm not sure if this is an HDMI, XBR2, or SA8300HD issue.

This may be off track, but did you complete the set up of the SA8300HD where you told the box which resolutions you could see? I'll get the deets on how to do this and edit this post.

Edit: bfdtv just beat me to the punch
post #761 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpetrozelli View Post

OTA quality will vary by proximity to tower, trees/buildings, etc.

Since OTA HD is digital, it should either work or not work. There shouldn't be a quality difference based on proximity, unless you're talking about the signal dropping in and out, and I would just put that in the "not work" bucket.

BTW, do you have a feel on how the sound compares between your 831 and your neighbor's XBR2? Another poster on this board said the XBR2 sounded GREAT, which is being disputed given the small speaker size.

Thanks for the posts.
post #762 of 12044
Quote:
Since OTA HD is digital, it should either work or not work. There shouldn't be a quality difference based on proximity, unless you're talking about the signal dropping in and out, and I would just put that in the "not work" bucket.

I have found using the Silverstar that the picture will look clearer just by moving the antenna left or right a bit, especially on PBS, if I switch over to cable, it looks a little softer.

Quote:
BTW, do you have a feel on how the sound compares between your 831 and your neighbor's XBR2? Another poster on this board said the XBR2 sounded GREAT, which is being disputed given the small speaker size.

Well, the Sony has 15w, and the Mits has 10w, and both I think have that TrueSurround, but my neighbor's XBR2 didn't sound really much better even at higher volumes. Most of us are hooking these babies up to legitimate surround sound systems so comparing these two sound systems to me is akin to comparing the number of RGB ports i.e. no one really uses them so why bother comparing. The only set that has a legitimate in-set sound system is the HP, that has 80 watts/speaker!
post #763 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post

which stores are everyone finding these xbr2 in ? I see that Magnolia/BB list the 70xbr2 lists it; CC doesn't.


CC in NC said they have 12 of the 60" in their warehouse, i was told these are for about 30 stores. they dont know when they will get one for the showroom. i didnt ask about the 70". most sightings on here have been at tweeter. though i havent seen any.
post #764 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Sony's SXRD panels are 1920x1080. However, the viewable part of the screen is roughly 1765x1020. All evidence suggests the Sony does 1:1 pixel mapping, which means you don't lose any sharpness with this lower resolution, you simply lose out on viewable area around the edges of the screen.

There probably isn't a 1080p RPTV on the market with 1920x1080 viewable pixels, although some do come closer (with less overscan in 1:1 mode) than the Sony.

How do you calculate and arrive at the conclusion that the viewable part is 1765x1020??
post #765 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpetrozelli View Post

Most of us are hooking these babies up to legitimate surround sound systems

I'm very surprised that most/many of the posters on this board don't give much thought to the TV speakers. I also have a legitimate sound system, but I couldn't imagine having it on all day for my wife to watch Ellen or The Today Show. We rarely turn it on for TV at night, and pretty much only use it for movies. I don't even think my family knows how to turn the receiver on.
post #766 of 12044
Quote:


I'm very surprised that most/many of the posters on this board don't give much thought to the TV speakers. I also have a legitimate sound system, but I couldn't imagine having it on all day for my wife to watch Ellen or The Today Show. We rarely turn it on for TV at night, and pretty much only use it for movies. I don't even think my family knows how to turn the receiver on.

Some do actually use them, but honestly, if you spend $4k+ on a set, watching The Today show isn't your primary reason for purchase, especially since it won't truly test your sound or PQ really. I was just resoponding to Supra's praise for the sound, it's decent but I can't understand how anyone could really get excited over a 5 watt diff. And like you said, at nite I wouldn't have my set loud anyway, so these in-set speakers are fine just don't expect too much dynamically
post #767 of 12044
Also remember the Sony has, I think, twice as many speakers. The Mits has the one bar right below the screen (i believe only 2 speakers there). The Sony has two bars, one on each side, with each bar having two speakers each, for a total of 4 speakers. Those bars are around 75" apart from each other, which helps in the surround part.

I can't tell if its has any other speakers. Its really hard to see the big 4 on the bar - maybe there are small tweeter type speakers as well? i don t know

To me its certainly has a lot more thump than my 831. I've played the same movies that i watched with my Mits and could def tell a difference.

All I can say is try it out at your local store. Luckily I was able to play with both of these sets at multiple stores for a easy comparison. One store pumped up the volume really loud on a blue ray and I could have sworn it was the "sony dream system" that was surrounding the tv. I had to put my ear up to it to make sure they weren't trying to fool me. haha

Its certainly not a home theater speaker set up, but I only want the big stuff for movies and certain shows. I dont need it for watching Entourage or Friends.
post #768 of 12044
Everything we watch goes thru the Yammy receiver and out the Acoustech Cinema Series Speakers.... Couldn't imagine it any other way...
post #769 of 12044
andy2sp....check your PM's....thx.
post #770 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyFunBoater View Post

I don't even think my family knows how to turn the receiver on.

Sounds like you need a Harmony remote!
post #771 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Sounds like you need a Harmony remote!



That was the same thought I had when I read the post!
post #772 of 12044
For any Canadians in the Durham region I would HIGHLY recommend Hi-Fi Centre Dundas St. E. Whitby ask for Joun Lee (905)683-2135. Tell him Ray Ross referred you. I got an amazing deal on a KDS-R70XBR2 and stand, far far below anywhere else.
post #773 of 12044
Spent some time trying different settings on the XBR2. All of this was done using test patterns generated by the VP50, so these are 1080p tests. Also all done mid-afternoon, so not bright direct sunlight, but not dark, either. Set had been on for over an hour.

First, on overscan. The VP50 will put out a test pattern with a one pixel line around the outer edge of the pattern. Using the "underscan" feature of the VP50, I had to adjust from 0 to 34 to see border. Right now, I can't say whether each increment is one pixel or two.

For the rest, I observed with a gray ramp from the VP50.

I tried the various Color Temp settings. (Power saving was on Auto, Iris on Auto2.) Neutral does have a blue-ish cast, but the ramp seemed pretty uniform. On Warm 1, there was an area in the "light gray" region with a reddish tint, but at the white edge it was white. On Warm 2, the reddish tint area doubled, coming very close to the full white edge.

I briefly played with Power Saving and Dynamic Iris settings with the ramp up.

Power Saving Auto seemed the same as Off on my set at that time. Setting it to On significantly brightened the set, pushing down the dark side of the ramp, and over brightening the white side.

Dynamic Iris on discrete settings (back with Power Saving on Auto/Off) also shifted the gray ramp back and forth. Auto 2 seemed to be about the same as "High", but I would expect a lot of fluctuation depending on content .

The VP50 also has a brightness/contrast test screen, with the typical 4 IRE below black, 1 IRE above black, 2 IRE above black, and 1 IRE above white, 1 IRE below white, and 2 IRE below white. It also has a color bar screen, and I have the color slides to use with color adjustment.

For various permutations of Power Saving, Dynamic Iris, and Color Temp, the picture/brightness/color/hue settings varied pretty wildly, and I wasn't able to come to any conclusions on what combination might lead to the most natural colors/shadows and hence picture. I was not able to predict how changing one of the Power/Iris/Temp settings would drive changes in the other settings.

So, at the end of this, I'm certainly not sure how to dial in my set yet. (I went back to the settings I started with, at least for now.) I think the process will probably be

a) pick the power saving setting you want to live with - that seemed to make the biggest difference (and I have no clue when Auto goes from Off to On)

b) pick a dynamic iris setting, or roll the dice with one of the auto settings

c) pick one of the color temps to start with

d) then try to dial in the picture/brightness, and if you get a happy setting there, then try and dial in color/hue, then look at the gray ramp, and ultimately real signals, to see if it's right. If its not, start all over with a different a), b) or c) setting.

Obviously, better to do this at night, probably better to wait until more hours on the bulb, and ideally not by eye alone but with calibration equipment.

I don't know if this helps anyone. If other owners have better insight into the settings, or seeing something different then what I saw, I'd love to hear it!
post #774 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post



That was the same thought I had when I read the post!

And the same thought I had as I typed the post.

Did I ever mention I hate you smug HDTV owners that are looking at getting their 2nd or 3rd HDTV?

Signed,
"A sad 12-year-old CRT RP owner that has been waiting for next year's HDTV for the last five years and therefore hasn't pulled the trigger yet"
post #775 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwiss View Post

Didn't you start a Mits owners thread? UMR will not work on some Mits because the red push is so bad. Sounds like the pot calling the kettle RED.

That is very funny!
Most displays oversaturate the colors. Its like cigarette makers adding more addictive drugs to their product.
Ultimate AV test the 731 and did not find gross color errors.

The first objective information I've seen is the new ranking of 1080p displays by Home Theater Magazines Gary Merson. The A2000 passed the interlaced but failed the 3:2 cadence test.
post #776 of 12044
Just got the 70XBR2, but still setting up. Does anyone know if a cablecard will output digital audio on the optical output of the set? If so, I can avoid using a STB, which I think just complicates the system without any benefit (I don't use on-demand or HBO). Assuming that the HDMI inputs will also pass through digital audio to the optical output, I could then avoid switching through a receiver, another control simplification.

Thanks - Jonathan
post #777 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post

Spent some time trying different settings on the XBR2. All of this was done using test patterns generated by the VP50, so these are 1080p tests.

EricBergan,
Do you find any advantages using the VP50 for SD or HD vs connecting your sources directly to your XBR2?
post #778 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

That is very funny!
Most displays oversaturate the colors. Its like cigarette makers adding more addictive drugs to their product.
Ultimate AV test the 731 and did not find gross color errors.

The first objective information I've seen is the new ranking of 1080p displays by Home Theater Magazines Gary Merson. The A2000 passed the interlaced but failed the 3:2 cadence test.

Do you have a link to the rankings?
post #779 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

It sounds like you have the wrong display modes enabled in SA8300HD setup.

With SA8300HD OFF and TV on, press Info and Guide (on box) together, choose advanced setup and follow the directions on the screen to enable 16:9 1080i, 16:9 720p, 16:9 480p, and 4:3 480i. Keep other modes disabled.

Once you've done that, press the Settings button twice to get to the General Settings. Then scroll up to Set: Picture Format. Set it to Auto HDMI/DVI.

If the resync delay when switching between SD and HD modes bothers you (as you change between SD and HD channels), then you can eliminate that by going back into SA8300HD setup and disabling all resolutions other than 16:9 1080i and 16:9 720p. Doing so will result in some quality loss on SD channels, however.

It had all the resolutions except 16:9 720p on, I'll check it with just those you posted on. The Picture Format was already on Auto HDMI/DVI. Thanks for the heads up on this.
post #780 of 12044
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollercoaster View Post

EricBergan,
Do you find any advantages using the VP50 for SD or HD vs connecting your sources directly to your XBR2?

I initially hooked the XBR2 to a VP30, and then upgraded that to the VP50. So I haven't seen SD straight on the XBR2, but I know from my previous HD set (an old Philips 9" CRT RPTV) that the VP30 with the 102 card does a great job of scaling up SD.

Obviously HD scaling is more subtle, and I can't claim to have done any serious A/B testing. I'm getting very sharp 1080i->1080p conversion from the VP50, but I'm most amazed at how well it does 720p->1080p.

DVDO has been pretty generous with their upgrade policies (I started with an iScan HD), and good about releasing additional functionality in firmware upgrades.
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