Dexter on SHO - Page 50

I thought season one was very good, two was great, and 3 was so so. But then season 2 had Jaime Murray.

Jimmy Smits also used his own voice as Congressman, and eventually President Matt Santos on 'The West Wing'. His Cuban accent was "perfected" in CBS's attempt to get back some of that 'Dallas' magic with the short-lived 'Cane' a couple of seasons back. That show was notable for getting canceled in mercifully quick fashion so that Nestor Carbonell could get back to his greatest role - that of the ageless Richard Alpert on TV's best show.

The intimation that season three heralded a decline in the quality of this series -- I took this as a supreme act of charity -- possibly the only thing that might have been expected to minimize my anxious suffering over having nothing more to view of this series for an interminable duration.

But after the first season, when I'd imagined it was impossible to top that, we got season two. So does it really seem as if the essentially same compliment of talent could be satisfied with something that fell short? Just the acting alone -- the concentration of brilliance in this cast is utterly extraordinary. MCH, while not particularly flashy here, has an incredibly challenging task and handles it with such understated naturalness, it might be easy enough to overlook how complex the role is, and just how magnificently he fleshes it out, so to speak. Plus he is hysterical at times -- the expression he made when he felt spontaneously compelled to "pan" Paul as Paul was waxing philosophic on aggressive impulses, was supremely classic!

You know it was halfway through season two when I got a sudden shocking flash -- smack the forehead!!! -- Jennifer Carpenter was that crazy in THE EXORCISM OF EMILY ROSE! This actress is so so great that I guess I must have thought she was herded into that movie for her extraordinary ability to suppress the madness long enough to get some shots, then back to the asylum, never to be heard from again. But here she makes Deb totally believeable as a 100% REAL person! I am so enriched to see her work here. One of the most brilliant actors I've ever witnessed at work. Course you gotta love Angel, and if not love the creepy/hysterical Vince (C.S. Lee), certainly appreciate the flavor he provides.

One of the greatest things I've ever seen. Thanks to rdgrimes for the tip -- acquisition of the set is inevitable now -- gotta have something for my JONES! A most special thank you to Dad1153 for your PM support -- excellent!

I agree with you on JC. Her portrayal of Deb is truly classic. The few things I seen her in, Emily Rose and Quarantine show that she has tons of talent. She's got crazy/hysterical nailed.

S1 was nearly perfect in that it started with an interesting premise, fleshed out the characters and cannonballed down the story arc to a wonderful finale. S2 was even better for me. Not stronger, but MCHs introspective journey was more compelling, the characters were further developed and I felt that Jaime Murray and Dexter lit the screen on fire...tremendous acting chops...kudos for both...another wonderful season. S3 was built on a faulty premise. It was well done, but didn't have nearly the momentum, nor could I ever rid myself of disbelief in the underlying relationship between Smits/Prado and Dexter. It distracted me.

I'd grade them A, A+ and B+.

Not just crazy/hysterical of course, but I think I first started to sit up a little when she was showing nerves about asserting herself after first being assigned Homicide. Rather than resorting to some typical hystrionics, it was all conveyed in her wavering voice while at the same time putting up the outward brave face -- that was complex and just very very nicely nailed -- in fact, one of the things that consistantly got me about this series was that it was not dumbed down -- it repects us as thinking adults -- HOW RARE IS THAT?!!!

You are right of course about Jaime Murray - that whole character -- even how she was introduced -- I mean, Dexter lying about his addiction, the consequence of that -- who thinks this stuff up? It is so seamless, natural, well done. And talk about momentum -- it has created an insatiable urge to see more -- every episode did, except now I've run out of episodes!

Jaime's character arc -- talk about perfection! -- it would have been so so typical/predictable that she would just be left out there wandering around -- another way this series decieved me -- seemed to have wound down, but then the coda! I can't think of another example off hand, that has the confidence to give you everything, just everything as reward for watching, but somehow, rather than dimish excitement, or tip the cliffhanger into post-climax torpor, it only creates a more unmanageable addiction -- how can they give it all up, yet you still need more? -- now THAT is a unique series and a wellspring of talent concentration that unfortunately seems to be quite singular.

Yes. This is some of the things that made Season 2 one of the best seasons of any show shown on TV. Ron gave Season 3 a little higher grade than I would have.

larry

larry, I watched S3 twice. The 2nd time through I appreciated it more. Where it failed was in comparison with the seamless build up in the previous seasons along with the previously mentioned weaker foundation. There was still some excellent stuff along the way.

Even bad "Dexter" (which S3 was not but it definitely didn't fly as high as the first two seasons; sorry Emaych! ) is better than almost anything else on television because the acting, premise and execution remained solid and consistent despite the diminishing returns of S3. If anything "Dexter" is its own worst enemy by setting the bar to top itself so unbelievably high with that amazing Season 2 episode-to-episode build-up. More than one of us commented on this thread when S2 was unfolding that S2 felt like the next-to-last or last season of a veteran show cashing in all its chips, not a sophomore show topping its red-hot rookie season. S3 played it safe, unlike the two season-long high-wire acts that "Dexter's" first two seasons were. Here's hoping S4 will go back to living on the edge, which is where the show seems to thrive and do best.

Emaych, since you have plenty of time before you get a chance to see S3 (ahem!), why not go back to the first pages of this thread and read along the comments from all of us up until late September of '08 (when S3 premiered)? It's fun to read back all of our expectations and next-day opinions about where "Dexter" was headed and how it kept messing with our heads (in a good way). I like how your posts mirror and channel pretty much most of our reactions to "Dexter" as it was new to us and pretty much blew us away. My TV viewing patterns are now measured in BD and AD periods: Before Dexter and After Dexter (yes, the show is that good).

Wow, I hadn't read through this thread until recently, and I'm kinda glad it took that long. I would have been supremely disappointed with the end of S3 given what you all appeared to have been expecting out of it. Don't get me wrong, I still felt that it was inferior to S1 and S2, but still very, very good.

This looks like a great discussion, but do I really want to saddle myself with expectations for a show this good? Maybe I'll just lurk until September and then plug my ears again

I'd grade them A+, A, C+.

I really didn't like Smits (his acting or his character), so that tainted the entire season for me.

Don't take too much out of dad's boundless enthusiasm for 'Dexter', M-H. After all, his TV timeframes used to be measured as BS60OTSS and AS60OTSS. Someday dad will have a new love, and the epochs of television history will once again be redefined.

For the record, I'm as big a 'Dexter' fan as most here, but the third season sort of let me down a little as well.

DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN SEASON THREE! (that means you Emaych! ). From http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/06/dexte...er-poster.html:

Very nicely stated. I had the "bar too high" misgiving with just season one, then after season two, I started to nurture something of a childlike wish/hope that just possibly it was the narrowed lens of fewer episodes that might allow the focus to remain so intense -- maybe the production team had been drummed out of every conventional broadcast television venue so relentlessly, that a bitter magma of misfit creative rage was going to continue to spit out for the foreseeable future...but I guess I know too well how creative arcs get corrupted by success -- no better example than two albums by the once utterly intense and laser-angry progressive rock group ELP -- an early album cover featured head shots -- any or all of them might have seemed like mass murderers from those enraged stares. Then....much down the road I remember shopping a record store, and in the $1 bin were quite a few copies of what must have been their last album as a group. Perhaps the title spells it all out: "LOVE BEACH" -- and there were those now famous kissers -- same order, same positioning, same angle, except now curiously, they were all beaming broad smiles, happy as ducks bobbing on a dreamy serene sea of good will and even better good fortune. Got the record. It sucked chunks of course....




And of course I never completely rid myself of that exact trepidation -- that this would be now how my TV viewing life would divide....DRAT!

Of course people are intimating that Smits might be one reason for the decline -- not that I want to explore that in any depth, since I will wait this out without spoiling it any more than I might have to, but I was not, nor am I now, much enamored of Keith Caradine's acting -- does nothing for me, seems phoned in -- competent enough, I suppose, in a similar vien to the acting stand-in mouthing lines to help an actual actor reherse (which of course casts Jennifer in even more exagerated relief as a miraculous talent) , and look how season two turned out in spite of that.

I still will hold out hope for exacly what you have suggested -- even mediocre DEXTER still shines brillantly from a horizon populated with mass-manufactured dreck. Liked your idea of reading this thread through -- that will help pass the time...

What has happened to this incredibly great series?

Were we treated to an altogether transcendent first two seasons whose stratospheric achievements were untenably highest order, now to so soon witness that creative fountain sputter into formulaic mundanity with season three?

Were our expectations set too high? Did Smits' introduction signal a decline in the acting standard? Was it just his too familiar body of work, possibly his seeming ubiquity that caused us to resent his entry here? -- an intrusion of the overexposed into our cloistered closed-quarters world of furtive and clandestine small scale shadow lives and somewhat unknown actors creating magic in obscurity now growing too too increasingly popular? Did Smits come on over with his Christina pop sheen and tarnish the cred of Fred rendering the DEXTER biskit limp beyond redemption? Was our indie vivisectionist hijacked by casting suits shooting to improve the ratings appeal?

Maybe the series just slumped into the success doldrums -- reprising previous themes that worked well enough to encore to fatal saturation. Or is it really that having gained some background and insight into the convoluted psyche of our complex protagonist, we weren't riding the same white crest wave of revelations as with the first two seasons -- the cat and mouse of the Ice Truck Killer meticulously unfurling his grand reveal, then upon that the exposure of his Dad's indiscretions and possibly ulterior and self-centered programming of the Monster -- all just fabulous layered stuff, but now were we done hurtling breathlessly toward new discoveries? Were we settling to MARRIED LIFE? FRIENDS for God's sake? Did we need a Dokes back as foil? That was pretty thrilling stuff after all.

Maybe my early season three malaise was simply the predispositional taint of having heard disappointing reports about the fade from glory. Could my impressions so easily be swayed, or was there some actual staleness here?

I wrestled with all these issues as I sat down to digest the morsels DEXTER was laying in front of me. So what was it? It actually did not seem quite the same -- that was from the earliest moments -- the opening with Dexter musing in his mute monologue about another bloody goings on, the hypodermic inserts into view, but we then see he is talking about oral surgery -- HMMMMMMMM -- little too precious that. One of the things I loved the very most about this series was steering strictly clear of cliché and a little too pat, but here it was, the opening moment. Followed by quite a few more notable clamorous clangors which sounded a sonorous deviation from natural, a naturalness so so refreshing in the first two seasons.

Those previous seasons were blissfully almost clangor free -- there was one moment I remember that just stood out so markedly that it really served to point out just how perfect most of the writing was. It was when Dexter's Dad had him answer the psychologist's questions the exact opposite of what he really felt. First of all, that is a very blunt device -- no clear opposites in alot of cases I'm quite sure, but beyond that, it creates more havoc than solves. And what about questions about how he felt about his family? His Dad? Was he supposed to say he hated his Dad? Or did not respect him? But none of that really took root at the time, it was the hideous line after Dexter took the tests, spoken by Dad: "That worked really well, that psychologist didn't even see the monster inside of you!" Or words to that effect -- his Dad would not have said that to him, it was clumsy and ill-conceived of as dialog. His Dad then backtracks, but while he was doing that, I was dwelling on the whole set-up. I liked the test angle, the early intervention, the concealment training -- all to the good, but the resolve was definitely the one clangor in the whole first two seasons -- well, of course there is the Dad seeming to assume that because the very very young Dexter was exposed to blood, that he would need to kill -- that is ridiculous on the face of it, but we later learn that Dad might have had his reasons for steering the kid....

But now we have a massed bunch of clangors in the third season -- I'll catalogue them when the Blu-ray comes out. But the big questions, do I want my perverse super hero to get married? To reveal his secret identity to friends? Does Bruce Wayne get married? And haven't we learned anything about superheroes revealing their secret identity? It never works out, the whole thing comes crashing down to Earth like the soaring Superman blasted with a beam of Kryptonite radiation, and then we always find out that of course Superman would not be that stupid, it was all a fantasy. Well, I for one was not inclined to share my Dexter with an interloper. I liked being the only one that heard his inner thoughts, and wouldn't domestic life tame the beast? The horror of that! The absolute violent brutality of serenity falling over the delicious bloody mayhem, was almost too much to bear.

So I resented Smits' character and resented Smits for being too well known and defiling my little "undiscovered" killing ground. In fact I do not think they drew out the trust issues enough for me to fully believe, but as I watched, something curious happened -- I started to really enjoy this season. It was not the delicious, breathless, ravenous compulsion of the first two, where we were being pulled irresistibly toward that cliff, AND THEN! -- at the end of season two, when it could have been a trite and predictable cliff-hanger, we got pulled straight over! -- to free-fall into the next season without that perch on the edge! So nicely played.

But this season three was very fulfilling about mid-way through to the end with many many good things to recommend it -- the clangors dissipated, I got used to Smits who did pay after all for taking my playmate away for that time.

And just as Dexter appreciated with new-found depth, his Dad and his Dad's challenge, I must express my appreciation for Dad in these pages for affording me this grand ride which will sustain me through to the blu-ray. Thank you!

wow, am i the only Dexter fan who actually liked Smits in his role??

No, I also enjoyed Smits and the last season, looking forward to the next season.

I liked the Smits character too, although I felt the season felt a bit rushed, like it could have used a couple more episodes to properly tell the story.

Emaych - I am not sure where you were going with that. I couldn't get past your 4th paragraph. Could someone please get me the condensed version of that post?

Well, if you are taking from what I wrote that I did not enjoy him, that would be a misinterpretation. I can't fault his acting certainly, and it was light years beyond Carradine's pivotal role in season two, and even with Carradine there, season two was great.

But many herein came forth to intimate that Smits might have been the root of season three going awry. I had my initial issues as well, but eventually grew to accept that time constraints and a different sense of dramatic pacing must have led to a seeming foreshortening of his entry into Dexter's world, which otherwise struck me as forced and unnatural.

Also an actor's oeuvre can sometimes interfere with my acceptance of them in a given role -- I recognize this to be my limitation. And as to the Smits character horning in on my Dexter, that is testament to the writer's genius at making us thirst for the familiar loner Dexter we know -- the counsel of Dear Departed Dad throughout this season, warning against trust, is our voice trying to steer our Dexter away from the ill-advised daliance with self-revelation to others, so it is quite natural that we the viewers react as we do to the Smits character at least -- and then of course, the better the pay-off.

Speaking of pay-offs -- the whole sub-theme about Masuka's rejection over his article, then triumphant "return" was great, if just ever so slightly bordering on somewhat standard -- I think the filthiness of his expression as he took back the reins, might have played just about right against it seeming too standard in the end, so again the tone was about as good as it could get.

I definitely agree with "forced and unnatural" given the progression of seasons 1 and 2. It's one of the reasons why I thought season 3 fell short of the previous two. I'm rewatching Season 2 now on BD and it's just as good as watching it for the first time.

larry

The Season 2 BDs are on their way to me from BB and I am looking forward to seeing those episodes again. I thought that Season 2 was at least the equal of Season 1 and in some ways was even better, thanks mainly to the sexy and totally deranged Lila.

I was one of the posters who decried Jimmy Smits performances in Season 3. Although he is a fine actor his ersatz Cuban accent took me out of most of the scenes he was in. I agree with Emayh, though, that the relative weakness of Season 3 was not entirely Smits' fault. Nevertheless, compared to about anything else on TV, Season 3 was outstanding, too. It was hurt, probably unfairly, by the inevitable comparisons made to Seasons 1 and 2 of Dexter. Those season were among the most brilliantly written and acted seasons of a TV series I have seen, in a class with The Sopranos and Deadwood.

I finished watching the BDs of Season 1 last week and was even more impressed with the show this time around than I had been when I saw it the first time on Showtime. Now I can hardly wait wait to see determined, deadly Dexter pitted against devious but doomed Lila.

Well, not sure about anyone else, but thankfully I'm not struggling with the passions and deeds that characterize Dexter's world. I can only relate what I know about myself and what I've learned about him to determine whether something introduced feels real.

Now I grant that I am hyper-aware of exposure, on all fronts -- financial, professional, social. Examples: last piece of used electronics gear I sold, I took thirty or so pictures of it, at all stages of powering on and through every plastic bag and layer I added into the box -- photographed it at the FedEx counter with labels attached. This for not big money at stake.

I personally use scissors to dice and shred any document that I get in the mail that has any kind of UPC label or numbers on it -- don't know what they mean, just don't want anyone else (who may know) to get it.

Wouldn't think of picking my nose at a stoplight, or let anyone see me pilfering supplies (not that I do in private mind you), as my operations chief allowed me to see him do the other day. And I'm not even concealing anything remotely close to what Dexter is.

So when I see him so easily allow someone into this perfectly preserved, hermetically sealed private and utterly secret world, it strikes me as ringing false. Plus there was that inducement by Smits' character -- what, was Dexter running out of baddies of his own procurement? Would he not devote himself to any other project sooner than risk dealing with this one so closely linked to the impertinant, self-inserting, PROMINENT ADA -- especially with all that access?

That isn't even the Dexter they have showed us up until now, what with all the meticulous plastic sheathing, etc., etc., etc. Dexter might even rival me in meticulous, scrupulous devotion to prudent need-to-know sharing exclusively. But I can see if they dragged it out, probably at some risk to forward movement, they might have convinced me, so I proceed as if they had gone to those pains, therefore allow myself to partake of the joys of one of the best productions ever set in motion...still.

I was intitially exposed when Dexter went to CBS during the writer's strike era. Watched all the first season this way. Rewatched the Blu-ray of season one (and probably alot of it for the first time that was censored out), then onto two. One was great to watch again for me. May watch two soon enough again, now that I seem to depleted of extant DEXTER.....what else you gonna do? -- tried to get into Num3ers the other night -- WOW, hard not to be spoiled now....

When this thread revived, I got to jonesing. Went through S2 on Showtime On Demand over the last 2 weeks. What a joy. I think this is the 3rd time through for me, but the performances still hit home. I've seen Jaime Murray on a couple of things since. Nothing good, just American TV roles that totally wasted her time. Lila just maybe the defining role of her career. Beauty, brains, sexy, needy, manipulative and crazy...what more can an actor want from a role...how many could have pulled it off the way she did. I agree with all comments regarding JCs superlative acting skills. It's so natural, that you forget she's a character. She's utterly charming and beautiful with entrancing eyes and expressions coupled with an awkward yet graceful shape. I can see what MCH see in her as a partner.

I've started S3 again. The relationship is still awkward and the leap of faith regarding believablity is very much a challenge, but it's not Smits' acting. It's the whole concept of Dexter having a wingman as a realistic premise. Even so, it's skillfully written and I'm enjoying the journey. Late September can't come soon enough.

SPOILER - DO NOT READ BELOW IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN SEASON THREE:


























I agree that Dexter having an apprentice is kind of silly, but what I cannot get passed is the fact that he's now married and is an expecting father. It kind of takes away from the deranged serial killer atmosphere. Sure, he's a "good" serial killer (if such thing exists), but it better not take away from the dark mood of the show.

It will only add to it just like you grew to like and route for Tony Soprano.

On hindsight the high point of S3 (for me) was "About Last Night," which came a few episodes before the disappointing 'Do You Take Dexter Morgan?' season finale (which was somewhat redeemed by that memorable 'red drop of blood on white dressing dress' shot). It's the one episode from S3 that walks, talks and feels like the earlier "Dexter": Dex discovering Ellen Wolf in the cemetary (and getting told by his dad-within-his-mind voice the old man was right), Dex blowing up at Miguel (inside his own mind), Quinn (whom I grew to like) and Deb working together, etc. "Easy As Pie" was also a throwback to classic ****ed-up "Dexter" morality while disposing (in a very moving way) with a neglected-since-S1 backstory of an integral character. And "Go Your Own Way" gave me my favorite exchange between Dex and Miguel of the entire season:

Miguel: (pointing at his bloody shirt picked at the cleaners) Do you think this is funny?
Dexter: Not at all. They said those stains would come OUT!!!
Miguel: F*** you!

And that's what's different for me between S3 and S1 & S2 of "Dexter." While S3 isn't horrible or unwatchable and has plenty of good moments with characters we've become attached to (Batista getting a girlfriend, the Morgan's way to fix a tie, Mazuka's small triumphs and defeats, etc.) I think of S1 and S2 as wholes. I see S1 as one whole, well-told, incredibly-compelling TV season from beginning to end. Ditto for S2 except for the final episode which for me goes way off the rails and is too 'Hollywood' with fires, stunts and deaths-overseas preposterous plots straight out of a Grisham/LeCarre novel. S3 is just a handful of cool/memorable scenes per episode that stand out or I like, but I never got the feel of coherent, condensed and FOCUSED storytelling that I got from the first two seasons. Oh well, bad "Dexter" is still better than "Desperate Housewives" or a mediocre match-up on "Sunday Night Football." It's a good thing that, unlike last year, "True Blood" won't be going up against new "Dexter" episodes or I would have been forced to abandon Dex for a flirtitious relationship with Sookie, Bill and everyone else over at HBO's swampy town.

I hope so! I still love the show, of course, and I cannot wait for season 4.

Before Dexter she was on a British TV show called "Hustle" about a group of con artists. Netflix has the complete 3 seasons if you want to check it out.

Hustle was shown on AMC in the States and I really enjoyed it.

That's pretty good.

I can't wait for this show to come back I hope that it can recapture the awesomeness of season one. The other seasons have been good, but it feels like something has been missing since season two. It isn't as dark as the first season.

I don't know if this is due to CBS wanting to syndicate the show after it's finished or what the deal is. But the show feels very light for some reason. Maybe it's just me.