PANASONIC 65" 1080p PLASMA (TH-65PX600U) Owners Thread - Page 8

Originally Posted by R Harkness

As I've mentioned before, I've actually experimented with ND filter gel on my Panasonic plasma, and it's fascinating to see a plasma with such deep black levels. But of course I do take a hit on overall brightness to get it there, and the NG gel isn't optical-quality, and so there's a little hit in clarity.

It seems to me very good, but I think still not as vividly rich as the Pioneer models. When I see the new Pro FHD1 and the 60" Pioneer I can hardly believe how richly colored those displays are.

Originally Posted by zaracsan

You comments about testing the Neutral Density filter made me think about one of the differences between the (non-Elite) Pioneer 6070 and the forthcoming Pioneer Elite 1540, that distinction being that the Elite display has what Pioneer terms their "First-Surface PRO Color Filter". I read a blurb on Vann's web site that describes this is as:

"Reducing reflected light is critical to producing accurate color values. In the PRO1540HD, Pioneer has eliminated one layer of internal glass by instead using a new First Surface PRO Pure Color Filter. This optical-grade filter is actually bonded directly to the plasma glass, eliminating refracted light. This results in sharper, more accurate color images even in a brightly lit room."

Does that sound like Pioneer is using a ND filter? I believe this is the same filter that is being used on the Pro FHD1, which should bode well for the 1540's potential for having the best black levels from a big Pio this model year. At any rate, I agree with your comments about the vivid richeness of the Pios and have been giving serious consideration to going with a 1540 for now, and waiting on the plus-sized 1080p display technology to mature a bit. I'll be most interested to read your thoughts on this display, once you get a chance to see the 1540, which I'm told is coming early in November.

Originally Posted by jsf2001

The 1540 Elite was on display at the local Best Buy/Magnolia this past weekend.

Originally Posted by zaracsan

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to see if we have one at my local BB/M store.

So, what did you think of the 1540 compared to new Panny 65?

Originally Posted by jsf2001

Please see my comments in one of my notes above. Unfortunately, the remote control to the Elite would not work for some reason. As a result, I wasn't able to adjust some of the settings to compensate for what appeared to be a soft picture with green push. It's really not fair to evaluate any of these panels unless one can adjust them and ensure that the panel is getting a good video feed. What I can say is that the new Pioneer 60" panels are far better to those offered for the past couple of years. They much brighter than before and are much more competitive to the larger Panny models. Having said this, I still prefer the Panny (both 58" and 65" versions) although the comparison wasn't fair given the problem with the Pioneer remote.

Originally Posted by jsf2001

It's their store in East Gate, located in Mt. Laurel/Moorestown, NJ. They just opened the Magnolia Section within an existing Best Buy store. I too was surprised to see it on display this weekend.

Originally Posted by LJ25

So by reading all of this....the new 65" Panny does not have deep black levels like the 9th gen smaller models?

Originally Posted by Owen

...
Digitized video has strict Nyquist limits and is filtered accordingly to avoid artifacts above the Nyquist limit of 960 horizontal, and that is before video compression degrades it further.
Lenses on HD video and even cinema film cameras have very significant limitations that mean 1920x1080 resolution (fully resolved) is unattainable.
Sonys top range studio 1080 video cameras, fitted with the best available lenses, have an MTF of only about 45% at 800 horizontal, and little more then 10% at 1400 horizontal, which is considered the maximum usable resolution of those cameras.
An MTF of 45% means that pixel to pixel contrast is only 45% at the specified resolution, so at 1400 horizontal a typical 1920x1080 HD camera will reproduce an alternating black and white line pattern as 5% white and 5% black, which is not exactly impressive now is it.
Film sources can be better, as they can be digitizes at much higher resolutions, like 3840x2160, or double 1920x1080 to alleviate the Nyquist sampling limit.
However film stock and lens performance in cinema cameras is still a significant limitation, so that fully resolved 1920x1080 resolution (100% MTF) is not possible.
The best one can expect from film is around 1700 horizontal, and with a low MTF of less then 50%.

BluRay and HDDVD are still heavily compressed formats that will degrade the resolution of the master, so 1920x1080 visible resolution is a myth in practice, and is not even available from the master.
The only single pixel detail available in video is the sharp edges of compression artifacts, and there is no advantage in reproducing those faithfully.

So, for video playback, a digital 1920x1080 display has little practical advantage over a good 1080 CRT RPTV.
....

Originally Posted by gkouri

I have not had a chance to calibrate and will not for several weeks. What are the settings that Franchot and some others running in Vivid and Normal mode? I too find that Vivid works on this set (unlike previous Panny's). Please list all settings if possible.

Originally Posted by Franchot

I find myself switching between two settings.

For films that are widescreen with black bars, I began in the Vivid mode and then tweaked the levels down so that the blacks are dark and solid and shadow detail is very good without any high contrast "noise" in the picture. The added higher contrast helps to bring the widescreen black bars to an acceptable level of black for me.

For films that completely fill the screen, I began in Standard mode and then tweaked the levels upwards slightly so that I get a punchy, colorful picture with good detail and shadows.

Cinema mode on this set just looks to dark to me and doesn't reveal enough detail to my eyes.

(I wonder if there are any "behind the scenes" settings (settings that are not available in the basic user menus) that are being manipulated between the different modes. It seems that picture, brightness, sharpness, and color temp are the settings that are changing the most between the different modes.)

Of course, all these settings and calibrations will continue to change for me as I hit the 100 hour mark on this set.

Originally Posted by RichB

I don't have this Plasma but on my 65, the Advanced Menu settings can be turned on to reveal additional settings. Vivid also included S-Curve Gamma and Automatic Gain Control which I prefer off. The other settings uses standed 2.2 gamma and AGC off. I never user Black Extension because it is a super black crusher.

- Rich

Originally Posted by Franchot

Rich,

If I remember correctly you have the commercial set. The only setting from the ones you mentioned that are carried over to this set is the Black Extension and it also crushes the blacks on this set.

One setting which I've experimented with which absolutely gives me a horrible picture is:
"C.A.T.S. Adjusts the brightness and gradation accordingly, to optimize contrast."

I can't figure how this setting could benefit me. (Well, actually I leave almost all controls that manipulate the picture in their OFF positions.)

Originally Posted by phantomhitman

dont mind me, just subscribing to this thread

Originally Posted by Larry Hutchinson

Yes. It was touch and go until I found solutions to the reflection problem but now I am quite happy..))

Originally Posted by Larry Hutchinson

The problem was that we could could see ourselves sitting on the couch reflected in the plasma whenever there was a dark area at the bottom of the picture.

The solution was to tilt the panel so we couldn't see our reflection and then to fix the lighting arrangement in the ceiling to minimize its reflection. I've uploaded a picture of the problem lights but, not having done it before, am not sure how to get it to show as a link. (edit: Guess it just shows up -- just not in the preview.)