PANASONIC 65" 1080p PLASMA (TH-65PX600U) Owners Thread - Page 9

For what it's worth these are the settings I have been using through a number of movies I've watched: "Starship Troopers, Taxi Driver, Maltese Falcon, Prairie Home Companion, Rome (The Series), The Music Man, Marathon Man." All movies are upconverted to 1080i.

Standard: Picture +10, Brightness +8, Color -1, Tint -5, Sharpness +10
Vivid: Picture +15, Brightness +9, Color -1, Tint -5, Sharpness +10

All the picture alteration settings are OFF.

I've only used that Vivid setting for "Batman Begins" which is HD DVD because I was losing detail and the blacks didn't seem dark enough.

Once I receive my copy of HD DVE, I'll recalibrate and see what kind of numbers I get. These settings are lower than when I first calibrated the set and give me nice deep blacks, natural colors, and lots of detail.

Yes. (See why I feel this way following the quote below.)


This set has been on my radar since a version of it was released last year in Japan. I was ready to trade in my 4 year-old 61" RPTV because, like you, I prefer a direct image over a reflected one. I also own a 42" ED plasma, so I like a plasma image, but wanted something on a larger scale. I was seriously considering the TH-65PHD8UK, but figured I'd wait for a 65 inch 1080i or 1080p set because they seemed to be just around the corner. (And seemed to be more "future-proof.") I soldiered on with my RPTV (which was a pretty good set especially due to the fact that I had it ISF calibrated soon after I bought it, but the sharpness just wasn't there for me and I didn't feel much like doing the convergence thing anymore) for another year waiting for Panasonic to release their set. (A January release date slipped to July slipped to...)

In the meantime, I started looking at alternatives. I checked out the highly-regarded Sony KDS70XBR100 at a Sony Style store, but it was "just okay" in my eyes. (Not that great, especially for the price it was going for.) The new 1080p HP set seemed like a possibility as did the new JVC sets (the prices were certainly nice), but they were rear projection and DLPs. SSE is not acceptable for me so I kept waiting and searching. Sony's new more affordable XBR got released and was also getting favorable reviews. I checked it out at several stores and wasn't overly impressed, moreso when I started reading about the "green blob" problem. The new Mitsubishis were supposed to be virtually equal to plasma screens with no glare, deep blacks, and minimal SSE. When I finally hunted one down, the SSE killed it for me (And there was glare and the blacks weren't overly deep.)

When Panny released their 58" plasma I started entertaining the idea of getting that. It seemed big enough and the blacks were very good. I also kept looking at a Samsung 63" plasma that was always featured in a Best Buy near me. In the store it always looked good to me, but wasn't 1080p. "Should I even bother with 1080p?" I wondered. Sony's second generation XBR sets came out and they looked good, but the "green blob" issue hadn't been properly addressed. I certainly didn't want a set which would have it pop up somewhere down the line. I liked the Pioneer FHD1, but the set just wasn't large enough to satisfy my "immersion desire." For kicks, I even looked at the well-spoke of $20,000 Sharp Aquos LC-65D90U set. (I'm not a LCD fan and this set doesn't convince me to be one. And it was out of my budget, anyway.)

Back to Panasonic. The 58" set was going down in price and I could buy it as a stop-gap TV until the 1080p sets were perfected. So that seemed the most logical thing to do, BUT, I finally found a place to preorder the 65" Panasonic and could get it at a discount and could return it if I didn't like it. So, the decision seemed obvious then. If the 65" didn't work for me, I could return it and buy the 58" which would probably still be declining in price.

So, the 65" arrives and it looks great. (I would have preferred it to be actually 70 to 75 inches, but...) Detail is great and no dead or stuck pixels. I can get very close to the set and the picture quality is still outstanding. A day later, I'm not as enthusiastic about the set because I want darker blacks. Doing some further calibration and living with the set for a few more days, the blacks impress me as being fine. More than fine. Very good. The blacks, in fact, have a solid "feel" to them and I find a calibration setting that brings out the shadow details. The way SD DVDs look on the TV is much, much better than I had hoped. And HD DVDs are totally impressive. Glare is no problem for me in my set-up, so the major negative of this set doesn't affect me. As a bonus, my wife likes the form factor of the set as well as the picture quality.

So far so good, so it's a keeper for me. No operating glitches or failures and each day I use the set I enjoy it more and more. The only negative I can think of at the moment is that the set will probably dramatically drop from the price I paid as more and more 1080p competition enters the marketplace.

Cool Franchot.

So am I reading you right that, beyond mere form factor, you prefer the Panasonic's image to those RPTVs you looked at? I'm curious, on grounds of picture quality alone, where the Panasonic's image sits in the HD displays you've seen. (In other words, where there any displays whose HD image you found "better" but for other reasons didn't buy them? If I've read you correctly, you liked the Panasonic PQ best?) I guess I'm just trying to start a mini-poll about where the Panasonic may stand in terms of people's ranking of PQ.

"Looks like the 16" studs are off by 4", wife is gonna kill me! I want to use the swing arm in case of reflections."

You can center the Chief mount by moving the arm over. There is up to a 9" adjustment.

So how many owners in total are on here now?

Well that would be great! But I'm looking at the Chief PDR install manual and can only see where it can adjust 4.5" right and left of center. My 'center' has a stud (how lucky), so figure I'm 8" off, the 4" adjustment get's me only 4" closer. Let me know if I'm figuring this out wrong.

Unfortunately it looks like you are right - which means I have the same exact problem. I have the mount, but not the TV. Wanna trade?

When looking at so many HD displays at so many stores, the differences between the sets began to look mimimal. They were all looking very good, but most were also running those "canned" HD loops. Sometimes I'd luck into sets that were broadcasting regular TV or HD feeds. (Usually, sporting events because the salespeople like to keep abreast of those things while they're working. ) Whatever good impressions I had of sets I viewed, I would try to "destroy" by coming to this site and reading up what other people who owned or experienced the sets had to say. (Which is why Sony and Samsung kept getting dinged off my list. In my previous post, I forgot to mention a 70" Samsung DLP whose picture I really liked. But after reading what some owners had to say about the set, I didn't want to chance it due to some problems some owners were having.)

Size was a major factor for me. I wanted a big display, but also a display that was sharp, detailed, and had good blacks and contrast. I can live with a good RPTV, but I prefer the look of a plasma. (Like you, I favor a direct projection set over a mirrored image. Heck, if there was a CRT that was large enough and didn't weigh a ton, I'd buy one of those. But that's never going to happen.) The problem was finding a display that was large enough and looked outstanding.

The picture on the latest DLPs and LCos based sets were very nice, but I couldn't stop myself from seeing the SSE. I figured that once I got a set into my house I could learn to live with it, but it would still feel like a compromise. Then I saw a couple of fleeting "rainbows" on the Mitsubishi sets that were broadcasting "non-prime" material. So, I shied away from those two technologies.

I really, really liked the Pioneer FHD1, but it simply wasn't big enough. Fujitsus were nice, but they hadn't come out with anything new lately, weren't big enough, and were cost prohibitive. So, it was back to Panasonic. If I bought the 58" that I thought put out a really good picture, I'd still have the regret of not having a larger sized TV.

I should say that I'm a fan of Panasonic's direct view TVs. I have owned (still own) many over the years. They look very good, especially in light of the price paid for them. (When people were going nuts over the Sony Wegas, I bought a Panasonic Tau. The Tau had to be tweaked to get it where I wanted it, but it was worth the time necessary. I have a 10 year-old Panasonic CRT which has a VCR incorporated into it which I use everyday at work and the TV and the VCR have never failed no matter how much I abuse the set and move it from location to location.) So, I ended up buying a TV that I had never viewed, but based on my past Panasonic TV experiences, what people were saying about it at CES and other trade shows, and the specifications that were slowly emerging over the Net. (Really, not much of a gamble with my return policy.)

The short answer to your question--I'd probably give the nod to the Pioneer FHD1 for picture quality, but I don't think that's a fair assessment. I don't know how well a Pioneer would fair if they had a same size 1080p set as the Panasonic. That would be a true apples to apples comparison. (Maybe I'm "fooled" into thinking the Pioneer is better due to the image being smaller and therefore more "intense.") And I also don't know how well the Pioneer handles SD sources; I've only seen it with top-grade material. (HD DVDs looked wonderful even on my old 5 year-old RPTV.) The 65" Panny is far and away much better than my 42" ED Panny when viewing SD material.

I will say that the difference between the picture quality on both the Pioneer FHD1 and Pansonic 65" sets is a non-issue to me. Both look outstanding. It's picture quality and SIZE which makes the Panasonic wear the crown in my house.

(Now, I'm off to look at the new Toshiba Regza sets. I suppose Toshiba wanted to flush out their "old" technologically-advanced sets this year before hitting us with SED next year. )

By "in sight" are saying that there are no PX65s available to buy or see where you are living or that specifically the Best Buys/Magnolias don't have it?

If it's the former, that's really odd because the smaller local dealers in my area are advertising the set's availability in this Sunday's newspapers. If it's the latter, well, it is Best Buy afterall.

Here are 3 sets for R. Harkness to consider. I know he wants plasma and he wants BIG. Faroudja FPD 61HD..61 inches $25,000.....Orion PK-8401..84 inches 1706 x 960 pixels..$30,000...much less expensive..Fujitsu p63xha40is...In the real world, looks like the Panny th-65px600u, 1080p, is the one to buy...discounted price, quite reasonable, actually..maybe $1000 more than 50" Pioneer...

Yes, none to see on display in my area. It's one of the downsides of living in a small upstate NY town. Most of the TV business is taken up by the two Best Buys and a Circuit City. There are a couple smaller local dealers but the key word is small and with the small display area they typically use it to display their bread and butter products like the DLPs, SXRD's and smaller LCD's and plasmas. I'm sure just like Magnolia they can order me one sight unseen, but if I wanted to do that I would use any of the several online places for a lot less money.

I was excited about this new BB/Magnolia store opening but if they aren't going to display the more expensive items then it's really pointless to have.

Tell me what you know about this pdp please. There is a lot of confusion on these new Fujitsu's since CEDIA. First off some say it's a 65" others say 63" and this thread says it's a 60". Pricing has been quoted at $20,000 and you're saying it's $1000 more than the Pio Elite? $8000 List + $1000 so $9000 street price?


Edit: Here is the P63XHA40 I found off google. Is this the TV you're talking about? It's 1366x768

Franchot, Larry Hutchinson, assJack1, Jack D, rls_ny, RichB, and Mr. Harkness:

I've now had the opportunity to view the TH-65PX600U in a dedicated room at Ken Cranes (Encino). Not a perfect situation but enough to get a sense of what's potentially in store for me. They only had a Blue-ray (I believe the new Panny version) and over the air signals connected to the display. I watched some Blue-ray footage (seemed pretty darn soft to me) and SD DVD upscaled by the same player (which actually seemed sharper). Neither the Blue-ray (50 First Dates) or SD DVD (National Security) were reference discs and I didn't come prepared with a quiver full of my own test discs (stupid mistake on my part). I also viewed some over-the-air HD which actually looked pretty nice.

I turned off all of the lights in the room, including all of the neon and backlight retail marketing junk that they had in the room. Unfortunately, they didn't have curtains to cover the windows that looked out into the main showroom. I had a tough time tweaking the picture settings to my liking and there was just too much light to have any real sense of the black level performance. That said; I sense this display or its commercial sibling could be the real deal, not perfect - none can claim that kind of performance - but really quite good nonetheless.

Here's my dilemma. Should I go with the consumer or commercial version?

My Thoughts on the TH-65PF9UK: The commercial version has way more adjustments, native rate via DVI, 1:1 pixel mapping and the promise of 1080p via HDMI as soon as Panny builds the board (maybe they will even figure out 1080p24 in the process). I was surprised to discover that the commercial display doesn't have independent picture setting memories for each input. Big Bummer - what's the benefit of lots of tweaking if you can't save the results by input? I guess I'm less concerned about the added tweakability because I intend to use a Crystalio II with the display. The lack of native rate via HDMI is troubling because of the perceived advantage in bit depth and the ability to avoid YCbCr conversion to RGB. As to the prior, maybe that's a distinction without a difference because we only have 8 bit sources and the Panny is spec'd to 16 bits via DVI (so all of the mathematicians among us don't worry to much about rounding errors). At first blush, the latter seems more problematic to me because it's my understanding that all of the sources are encoded using digital component video (YCbCr) but realistically, does the display actually use YCbCr or internally convert to RGB anyway? If the display is converting to RGB, does any of that really matter? Assuming it does matter, are we really confident that Panny will come out with a new, improved HDMI board for this display? Since the consumer version already accepts native rate via HDMI, it would seem likely that Panny will build a better HDMI board unless they feel HDMI is not a "commercial" standard. But, will we lose the guaranteed 1:1 pixel mapping function via HDMI? Also, does the better cable length limitation for HDMI provide a meaningful benefit over DVI? Is that going to be an issue because of the physical HDMI-DVI converter I will be forced to use even if I don't use the external VP?

Aside from the warranty (no in-home repair), the biggest negative I see is the fact I can't buy it from a Bricks and Mortar vendor with a "no questions asked" return policy. My big fear is distracting dead or stuck pixels. I really don't want them and I'm willing to pay a bit more to make sure I don't get stuck with them.

My Thoughts on the TH-65PX600U: By contrast, the consumer version is HDMI native rate ready right out of the box. As noted above, however, maybe that doesn't really matter. Given the lack of picture setting adjustments, I'm forced to rely on the external VP unless an as of yet discovered service menu opens up the picture adjustments and other settings. The only issue that makes me really nervous about the consumer model is the 1:1 pixel mapping function. I understand that the consumer display has a feature that can be interpreted as provided no overscan (i.e. "Size 2" = 100% (no overscan) versus "Size 1" = 97% (3% overscan)) but has anyone actually confirmed this on a 1080p native source? I know Larry's test established the presence of overscan but the source was not 1080p.

One final thought: Does the lack of 1080p24 via HDMI or DVI on either of these displays really mean anything in the real world? It seems to me that unless the native refresh rate of the display is capable of 48Hz or preferably, 72Hz, all of this is just theoretical musings because what is displayed is going to be 60Hz and question becomes a function of which processor does a better job at converting the 24 frames per second native source to 60Hz for display.

Your thoughts and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Rob

Wow, Rob. From what you posted I'm not sure which set would be best for you.

Although I was seriously considering the commercial set, I found that the consumer set seemed to fit my needs better. (I'm pretty much just running movies on it through an upconverting DVD player, a HD DVD player, a soon-to-be acquired Blu-Ray player, and an all-region, PAL/NTSC DVD player. And I'm glad I have all the available inputs to use.)

Your use of the set is very different from mine so hopefully more people will chime in with better advice for you. (I see in the other thread that Dsinger gave a good response to your dilemma.)

(Thanks for the tip about the Panasonic Blu-Ray at Ken Crane's. I'm out the door to check it out!)

Rich H. wants 1080p, so there's really only 1 current set to consider (2 if you count both the commercial & consumer Pannys).

No, the one that was the show-stopper was the 65" 1080p Fujitsu. MSRP is thought to be $20,000, but I think it can be had for closer to $15,000.

er... no I'll keep the set. Any other arm mounts available that you guys know of? this cardboard view really sucks!

A 65" owner.

Franchot,

I have no idea what will be better for me. My friend Murphy (who wrote a bunch of laws) tells me whatever I choose the other one would be better (but only if I keep reading everyone's comments on this damn forum ). In all seriousness, I think either is a great decision. I'm mostly watching scaled SD DVD and Satellite TV. The scaler should get me tons of PQ until the Blue-ray versus HD-DVD thing settles. My consternation is mostly wanting to have a lot of future flexibility which is why the commercial display is so intriguing. If (and that's a big IF) Panny gives us a fully functional HDMI card, I tend to think the commercial display wins the flexibility war. This assumes, of course, that the HDMI interface is really "better" than DVI. I'm just not smart enough to figure that part out.

Enjoy your awesome display. I hope to be joining the ranks of the rest of you very soon.

Rob

Thanks for clearing that up Ken

Havent read any reviews on the Samsung 63".

Thanks for your help, I am a noob

Just noticed there is a 50" Fujitsu discounted 'very low'. Wonder why we do not hear more about this display even tho 720p. It sells for much less than the Pioneer 1080p set. Would love to compare those 2 sets side by side.

I own both a Fuji 50 and the new TH-65PX600u. There is no comparison. The Fuji is very nice, but it is not in the same league in terms of PQ as the 65 inch Panasonic. Resolution on the 600u is superior. More pixels = better picture. It's really that simple, IMHO.

The latest issue of Home Theater magazine tested the 42" and 50" versions of the Panasonic plasmas and said they did not perform the 3:2 pulldown correctly. The article said this is very important and 81% of the tv's tested failed. How important is this and does the 65" do 3:2 pulldown correctly? If not can this be done in the DVD player so the tv does not have to do it? Does this mean that the DVD player must always do it? How can one correct for cable when it does not come through the DVD player? To get cable correct does one need a separate scaler? How does this problem show up in the display? Sorry for all the questions but this seems very important.

On the new 65" Panny there is screen where you can toggle 3:2 Pulldown to either on or off. I would assume that if you they allow this option for the panel, it probably works. I say "assume" because my other 42" Panny did not have this option. (Then, again the 42" TV is a couple of years old. Maybe all the more current models have it as an option.)

Many of the DVD players I own allow for changing between Video, Film, and Auto Modes. (Some even have two film and two video modes.) I believe that's the same as engaging or disengaging 3:2 pulldown. Whether it's better to have that function taken care of by the TV or the DVD, I really couldn't tell you.

Nore pixels equals more pixels (dots) but there is much more besides reolution to having a good picture. I am not debating your comparison in the least as I have not seen the sets side by side. I do know, for me, with my Panny EDTV of 2 years ago, I still have a great picture with HD content. I had a Sony tube tupe, 34 " HD set and compared it directly with the 480p display. Overall, we prefer the picture on the Panny better. The 480p set, also, was a perfect match for SD and for dvds. The Panny has great blacks and contrast and colors are very natural (if not vivid).
Anyway, I still have it so that says how much I still enjoy it. Also, as you go bigger in a picture, be it a photograph or a tv screen, you begin to lose some contrast and brightness. To gain one thing..size..you give up a little bit of quality. Now, this compromise is different for all people. And each person has to come to a conclusion where this happy medium lies. Having said all of this, I am sure the 65" 1080p display is excellent.

Is there any visible difference between these 2 inputs with this set?

I'll have to change receivers to get HDMI, and (of course), would rather not.

Thanks for any help!

I've compared both many times and they're very close in PQ. The Fujitsu has somewhat better blacks than the non-1080p Pioneer and the Pioneer has somewhat punchier colors. Not too long ago there was more discussion on Fujitsus than you could shake a stick at. But it's always been acknowledged (even today) that Fujitsus are among the best and still the best in some eyes.

SuperBuck, I'd love to hear you give a comparison of the two displays. I own a 50" Fujitsu and I still have trouble finding a better picture. I know it's heresy, but I actually prefer the Fujitsu's picture to the Pioneer FHD1, despite the higher resolution of the Pioneer. The Pioneer simply doesn't match the punch of the Fujitsu's picture. IMO picture quality is more than just about resolution. Still, I'd love to hear you give a detailed comparison since I am looking at 65" 1080p plasmas. Enjoy your plasma!