Home Lighting Automation

I installed Insteon light switches to control my theater lights . I liked it so much I bought more switches and a second controler for my bedroom. G o to www. Smarthome .com . They carry all sorts of Insteon , X-10, and other products.

Have you looked at the Radio RA by Lutron?

I'm in the same boat as you and have also been researching several alternatives....Mine is a retrofit so I have discounted wired solutions. Here's what I've found so far:

Lutron Homeworks: Supports both wired and wireless. Provides for two-way control and feedback. Most expensive. Not typically sold to DIYers.

Lutron Radio Ra: Wireless only. Provides for some two-way control and feedback. You cannot query for Dimmer levels if someone changes it locally at the switch. Not as expensive as HW but still pricey. Sold to DIYers.

Zigbee/Zwave: Wireless technolgy. Some reliability issues. In lawsuit with Lutron over patent infringement.

UPB: Powerline technology. Reliable. Most expensive Powerline solution but not quite as expensive as Radio Ra. Big Beef with delayed reaction to light switches. You hit a button and upto a 1/2 second to 1 second delay for light to come on.

Insteon: Powerline and RF technology combined. Most promising but most disappointing. Lots of problems with failed hardware and buggy firmware. Supposedly the latest firmware versions have addressed many problems but the jury is still out. Much less expensive than UPB.

X-10: Most inexpensive but least reliable, although ardent X-10 users might argue that point.

Also look at Vantage Controls Radio Link. As robust (and expensive) as Homeworks, also not a DIY solution, but bulletproof reliable. Has a lot more automation (of other sub systems) built in to system than Homeworks. HVAC and AV, touchscreens, very nice keypads etc.

Hi dstrack,
Insteon and Vantage are on opposite sides of the pricing spectrum. So depending on your budget - your decision will be fairly easily. We, Cinemar, recently released our Insteon plugin. We also have a Vantage plugin, so which ever lighting system you choose you'll be in business as far as controlling them from a networked PC. Insteon has now been around for a while and it's gone through the development paces from Smarthome to the point that it's working really good.

For climate control/thermostats and security - take a peek at the ElkM1 and their thermostat module. My guess is Insteon will be unveiling thermostats in the future as well.

Hope this helps.

I use Lutron HomeServe (HomeWorks RF) in my home and it works flawlessly.

Just as another data point, I recently put in Insteon in my house (also retrofit). I was unsure of it at first but for my needs it works pretty well. It took me a bit to figure out that I could setup a button as a direct controller for other lights instead of needing to program 'events' in the HouseLinc software but once I got that figure out I'm very happy with it. This weekend I'll be counting up all the other switches that I want to purchase to cover the other key parts of the house. Currently I only have master bedroom, office, and family room covered.

The only thing that its lacking for me right now is the ability to have a wireless remote control for it. I know there is a CQC plug-in for Insteon and I have purchased CQC but I just haven't set it all up yet. Once I do that I should be able to use my wireless pocketPCs to control the lights (hopefully).

I personally have not had problems with X10, and I know Insteon supports X10. I will likely install Insteon also.

I have wired my home with Insteon devices and highly recommend them.
To control them, I have found the following freeware, used in conjuction with the PC Controller - USB module works really well:

http://www.kenmill.net/PublicInsteon/

A product like CQC goes way beyond what any software from Vantage is going to do for you. If all you want to do is lighting, then perhaps all you need is the software for the lighting product. But automation is way more than that, and if you want to do those other things (e.g. media management, multi-zone audio, weather data, traffic cams, custom touch screens, etc...), then you need to layer a product like CQC over the Vantage system.

There is a Vantage driver that will be out in the 2.0 version that's in beta now.

mcascio,
Vantage has another wireless type system that is in development now that will be available sometime soon. There will be another alternative to Radiolink. My guess is a zigbee type device.

Dean, You are so far uninformed on the Vantage product, that I am losing respect for you in the way you are plugging your product Over them.

I am holding a 12" color wireless Touchscreen from Vantage, which communicates to their Infusion Processor that has 5 built-in RS-232 ports, with more that can be added on the bus or wireless. All with a WMC type of interface.

There is also a theaterpoint station that has local IR and Power sensing for controlling all kinds of gear.

www.vantagecontrols.com is where you and others can see the products.

Question about the vantage software, not entirely clear from that site: Do you need to know flash in order to use the Designer Toolbox?

IVB, Designer Toolbox requires Flash. Vantage has essentially added some Flash components that allows a dealer to interface with Vantage lighting controls to insulate the dealer from the guts of Flash.

Designer Toolbox cannot do what the good PC based software products can do. It is a decent, basic control package that is well supported by Vantage.

The Cinemar MLVantage plugin was commisioned and bought by Vantage dealers to interface with the controller. They already have Designer Toolbox, and don't use it, favoring MainLobby as MainLobby goes many steps farther than what Designer Toolbox was scoped to do. Several of their dealers now have asked Cinemar to produce MLInfusion plugin to control this very powerful, brand new Vantage controller. MLInfusion should be available by the end of November.

truaudiophile, Yes, we will be meeting with Vantage at EHX in two weeks to look at that system. Knowing Vantage, I am sure it will be excellent.

Thanks.

ok, truaudiophile, I don't get it. Dean said

you responded with

What's the specific areas in which you feel Vantage meets or exceeds CQC (or MainLobby)?

I don't feel like getting into a **** tossing match pinch per pinch. I just wanted to tilt the bias back to the middle and have the people reading the thread check out all the aspects of each system.

These are expensive systems. New items and capabilities are happening all the time, with many changes occuring in the time frame of the building process.
I just want the owners to do their homework to get the most out of their time, effort and money.

Considering that CQC is also has quite extensive media management capabilities, plus all of the automation features, as well as the ability to connect to internet based data streams, a fully networked distributed architecture, open ended graphical interface system, and so forth. So I think it's safe to say that it goes well beyond what a Vantage system would provide you by itself, though if Vantage supports all those things and I'm not aware of it then point them out and I'll take it back.

That doesn't mean you NEED those extra capabilities, and if not they aren't relevant to the purchase, but they are there nonetheless,

I'm not looking for a pissing match, I legitimately tried to read through that site and understand how it works. Doesn't seem to be very content rich esp on the software front, couldn't figure out what it actually did as opposed to anything else. For example, I noticed that RS232 port thingey, but couldn't figure out how i'd actually use a Vantage to connect to my Aprilaire/rain8net/elk/etc using it. Are there drivers for these products, or does it connect some other way?

Just curious.

Vantage has had their Webpoint product to use your PC as an interface. I am not sure if it works with the Infusion product or just Q. I seem to remember that the Infusion may have this capability out of the box.

Vantage is not Crestron. It is first a lighting control system. It can be interfaced with other subsystems such as HVAC, security etc. It can also interface with A/V systems. Vantage wants to move toward being more of a control/automation solution, a more end to end solution. Whether they ever get there is a big question.

Vantage started last year with a strategic partnership with Exceptional Innovations and its Lifware product . For whatever reason, this partnership didn't take. It may have been as simple as their recent purchase by LeGrand. It seemed that this was their move into full blown control systems. Now it seems that they are going it alone.

The lighiting control system is great. Bulletproof. As good or better than any other high end lighting control system (aesthetics aside, some don't like the look of Vantage keypads etc, I think they are very pleasing to look at). They have struggled in the past with A/V control. It works, but it is not the same as other high end control systems (AMX, Crestron) Infusion SEEMS to work toward changing that. The new touchscreens are very nice, the control potential is very good. I don't know if it is all there yet, but I would not hesitate to use Infusion as the basis of a control system.

Is it the best solution? For lighting I think it is in the top two. For control it definately is below the top two. I can't comment on where it falls compared to CQC or other software frontends. I just don't know. From all I have seen CQC is a very good frontend. Probably with more capabilites overall than Vantage when it comes to integration and automation. But the Vantage lighting will still be programmed and controlled internally and the CQC will touch it and execute Vantage programming.

If your goal is to have access to your home systems from your network, off site etc, then just install the most appropriate subsystems (lighting, security, HVAC, A/V etc)and integrate them all with the best front end for you. (CQC, Crestron etc)

One last thing, the new Vantage touchscreens are still closed interfaces, they are connected to the Infusion controller and programmed through the Vantage system. The touchsceen just happens to run embedded XP, it is not a PC. And Designer toolbox is just a front end for Flash.

dstrack, The vantage supports external control. This RS232 port connects to the PC. The Mainlobby software is then configured to talk to the Vantage controller. Our plugin grabs all of the programming out of the Vantage controller and creates variables in the PC software for each device and event. With the PC, you can tell the Vantage to either "Turn Load 45 on", or "Run the Night Time Event" (that is preprogrammed into the Vantage by the Vantage dealer). So, you have the best of both worlds.

Now, once the PC is connected to it, you can now create user interface screens to match the interiour of your home, your personal style, for all of your controllable hardware (beyond the Vantage). You are not limited to the Vantage hardware display devices, as you can now leverage Consumer Electronics buying volume discounts and put in wall touchscreens, in hand wireless tablets, reuse your desktop PC, use your work laptop, your PDA, your Windows CE enabled phone, to interact with the HA system (which Vantage is now a subset of).

You can now integrate all of your systems. For example Cinemar has an Outlook Calendar interface. Very popular in the kitchen to tell everyone who is taking the daughter to dance class tonight. And, because MLCalendar supports "reminders", you can have MainLobby flash the TV room lights when it's 5 minutes before it's time to leave (tell the Vantage controller to flash the lights). Simple example, but demonstrates that we now treat the house as an overall System. Not just a lighting controller.

Weather is also a very popular kitchen touchscreen display. Can't do that in Vantage.
CallerID - display the caller's picture, say who's calling on the whole house audio system, see who called and the time while you were at work.

List goes on and on. Well beyond what the Vantage controller is capable of. The Vantage does what it does as one of the best. The rest is just beyond the scope of what it was intended to do. And beyond the Designer Toolbox. These systems are also not "front end tools" (very common misconception). They are the core of the system as well. They are also the automation "engine" that orchestrates all of the actions, as at this cross hardware level, goes beyond the hardware controller.