Pioneer 60" FHD1 with 20000:1 contrast ratio - Page 3

So what panel do you recommend? I want something that has a lifetime beyond yours.

But...again, what do you mean by "lifespan issues?"

It only makes sense to single out plasma as having "life-span issues" if plasmas are in some way deficient in that regard compared to other technologies a consumer might buy. But, that's not the case, given plasma life-span is rated to match or exceed pretty much any other technology out there. (And at this point plasmas are rated as having more robust life-spans than the vast majority of consumer tube sets that have been manufactured).

That being the case, your comment about "life-span issues" seems merely to equate to "won't last forever"....which isn't terribly meaningful. Which is what people have beein pointing out to you.

Did I ever say any TV or panel had a forever lifetime? No, I did not! If you feel for some reason that your favorite panels technology virtue has been violated, by someone pointing out such things. Get over it already, but don't ignore the facts. Every type of display technology has it's own issues, quirks, and flaws.

Look again...... The main ones were pretty much listed.

Let's hope that JohnLA adds more value in his other 6400 and some-odd posts and pass on by.

John, you are right about having issues, but I'm not sure that it's plasmas we should worry about.

;-)

-glenn

Oh and the added wink made that so cute.....

Yes, but it has been pointed out that they didn't make sense, in terms of flagging plasmas for having "life-span issues."

Do you not see why people would be confused by saying "plasma has life-span issues" when plasma life-spans are the same or better than other technologies?

No?

I'm not flagging plasmas. Someone said "Plasmas don't have any lifespan issues.", and I said that statement is not true. Now I see that it seems that many here are worried about their preferred display technology being publicly debauched in some way, so they now want to defend it's *honor* more than anything else. I pointed out facts. Things like half life and possible burn-in are facts. I already said, that all forms of display technologies have own sort of issues, quirks, or problems. What I did not say, but should have. Is that with some of them, some of their issues, quirks or problems are often ones that are unique to their technology only. And for anyone to say that any of them have no lifespan issues, is totally false! But what I will say about both plasmas and CRT's, and that will probably also piss people off because I said it. Is that they have more possible potential to be damaged by the consumer themselves, due to careless or improper settings or use than others are. I am not knocking or "flagging" either plasma or CRT technology. In fact I own both a RPTV CRT and a plasma, and in fact I still prefer my RPTV CRT in many ways other than it's size and bulk. But you do need to set up both plasma and CRT's properly, and use them properly to insure you won't damage them with improper settings or use. After all lets face it, DLP which I hate. You can run it as bright as you want set the contrast at whatever you want, and even play games 24/7 for a month non stop if you want. Granted it may look like crap while doing it, but that's about all. But yet DLP still has other things to worry about, such as bulbs burning out, possibly seeing rainbows, color wheels going bad, or maybe even mirrors sticking on the DLP chip itself. And of course for LCD, you can come up with a list of possible issues, quirks or problems for that technology also.

You responded to this statement by NathanC, which was clearly pointing out that plasmas don't have lifespan issues in the context of comparable technologies, e.g. LCD:


It's not as if anyone here is saying "Plasmas will last forever and will never break down." Most people here are quite aware of plasma life-span ratings; the poster to whom you responded was clearly aware of life-span estimates for plasma, as he was making comparison to LCD life-span (both are generally rated to around 60,000 hours half brightness/bulb life). There is nothing implied in what that poster said, or what anyone else said, of anything more than that.


That's why responding with "Actually, plasmas have life-span issues" ...in that they eventually wear out...is stating the obvious, and doesn't really raise any serious point of information in response to what that person wrote.



No, it's just a matter of pointing out some reasoning that doesn't make sense. It wouldn't matter if you were talking about plasma, or any other technology.

Obviously all display technologies have limited life-spans...like everything else. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to remark "X technology has life-span issues " unless that technology actually has a problem in that area vs other display choices.

Because it's simply a given that anything you buy will, of course, not last forever and hardly needs to be pointed out.

That's all we are saying. For me it has nothing to do with "plasma"...it's just being, admittedly, a bit pedantic about communication.

When compared to all others, it does have issues. Just like all others when compared to it will also have issues. But yet, you want to ignore that. If there was no reason for concern about possible issues, then why are so many people worried about break-in settings and break-in time on a new plasma panel?

Nope, I never said that they had more or less than other technologies. Only that they all do have issues. I did say some things were different, and also that some things such as possible burn-in were very similar to CRT, and that both plasma and CRT generally have a half life rating. But the Half life times are all over the map, newer plasmas are better than older ones in that regard, and in most cases are as good or better than most CRT based sets.


As for 1080p in a Panny or a Pioneer plasma, a 58"-60" at mere mortal pricing. (around 7k or less) Would get me ready to break out the plastic fairly quick.

I have a lifespan issue, I won't live forever. Neither will you. Or your television.

Plasma lifespan being an "issue" in one's purchase is beyond foolishness. 20+ years is the panel lifetime -- with fairly substantial daily viewing.

Sorry but those first pictures of new owner panel certainly do not make me drool Madshi unless one likes seeing hurricane shutters or a washed out panel if you dare open the shutters. Perhaps in the Bat Cave it may make one drool but in an upscale home with lots of windows good luck trying to get over the sun washing the panel out - Yes lighting controlled room (like no lighting) for the Ala Carte Panel but that PQ certainly doesn't make me drool quite the opposite if I 'd spent that kind of money it would have me screaming and I am not seeing any rave reviews or drooling from owners like we have with the Pio FHD1.

Sorry, but those pic's reminded me of why I took a $500 loss to get the 500U out of my viewing room - even with the blinds closed the reflections are there and Tall arched windows viewing real life on the other side the sun washed out the panel on sunny days some 80%. Please show me one of the new owners pic's that makes you drool? I haven't seen one yet. Do all you folks have Bat Caves or rooms without windows as you can see his blinds are closed. I live in a luxury Condo with lots of windows and even my basement has windows and tall ceiling or do you just get used to looking at the shutters and such?

So even if plasma has a lifespan flaw think of what will be accomplished in that 30,000 hrs nevermind the 30k following that with a calibration. So 60,000 hrs later......

If you work 40 hrs a week..... it would take you 7500 working days to complete the 60k or 3750 days to complete the 30k. God I'm loving my new plasmas lifespan flaw more and more.
The avg amount of hrs worked (USA) is about 2000 a year. (30 yrs to work 60k hrs) So you might have to buy a second plasma to finish your working lifespan.

I believe with the hundreds of break throughs and price drops in that time , you might start thinking about a new set. I mean in 20-30 more years we will be driving cars that run on water. (we'll have too)

That lifespan flaw arguement is a joke. Right?

Look at how long it took to build say, the space shuttle or the space station. My new plasma will be at half life when they visit Mars.....I'm really pissed.

Well, I for one am going to wait until '07 to purchase another large plasma (maybe even two). Although it looks like the 1080p plasmas with the 20,000:1 contrast ratio will not be available until late '07/early '08, the 768p displays are due for major upgrades in '07. In Pioneer's case, look out for Pure Drive III and ACE V, new filters....and a new contrast ratio. What will that contrast ratio be? Well let's just say that it is better than any current digital flat panel display out there

Will have to verify this one first.


Here's a quote from I, Robot: "That is the right question "

Incremental.

Will we see panels with new contrast ratioes from Pioneer and Panasonic at CES2007?

- Rich

The fact remains:
* Burn-in is rare as evidenced by the many many owners of plasmas on AVS
* Burn-in on LCDs has also been reported by owners here on AVS...they too are not immune although certainly less likely to burn-in then plasmas
* SEDs will have burn-in issues
* Yes, we break-in a plasma as we should a CRT as we should an automobile engine. So what? Relative to the lifespan of the display, it's a tiny tiny % of time
* As you state, EVERY display technology has 'issues'...so what? You pick your poison. For me plasma puts out the best image of any.
* A half life of a display that will more than likely be disposed of by the owner long before it gets to that point should worry me why?

Westa, there are very few people on this forum that can really shoot a picture of a display that will do it any justice at all. That says nothing about the display. Some of the pix I see people jumping up and down about are almost laughable! If those were the pix I got from my display, I would never have bought it in the first place. It seems that people still put way too much faith in these pix as a measure of display quality. These pix are for fun and nothing more. I like seeing them as much as the next guy, but I would never ever make a purchasing decision based on screen shots.

As for light control, most of us with plasmas can readily eliminate sources of light that reflect from the screen. I've got black out shades for windows and shades over the skylights. Very easy actually and nothing whatever related to living in a 'bat cave'.

But tell me the truth, don't you miss shaving in your plasma?

It sounds like Westa is addressing the pictures I took of the TH-65PX600u in the new owners thread.

Westa, I intently posted those pictures of a dark scene so that the reflection of the windows in daylight could be seen. I could have easily taken a picture from a movie showing a blazingly bright scene and I guarantee you that you wouldn't see any reflections. To me, that's a false representation of the TV's qualities. I know that you were upset with your plasma purchase due to the glare problem.
Well, this new plasma is no different despite having any sort of glare reduction added to the screen.

BTW, "Sleepy Hollow" will look pale and washed out to some because that was the director's intent--to desaturate the colors of the film.

Aren't "spats" good for relationships?

The "what" is. For someone to say they do not have issues, is false.

Look up Laser (not LED) DLP. Sounds very good and is supposed to be out this time next year by Mitsubishi and maybe Samsung.

Promises:
No burn in
No color wheel
No ghosting
No bulb
Deep blacks, Laser can pulse off for a true flat black.
Up to 30% cheaper to produce
1/3 lighter, will use new polymer screen with little or no bezel and around 10 deep
25% less power
LCD and plasmas can produce about half the color gamut, which is the amount of color which can be viewed by the human eye, whereas Laser TV can produce up to 90%

I've been waiting since the late 80s for HDTV and the last three years (or so) for a 50+ 1080p plasma. I think I'm going to wait one more year even though I was going for the 65 Panasonic. I figure that by then I'll have some HD TiVos, there may be a HDDVD/Blu-Ray player and HDMI 1.3 will be there for the better color as well.

It sounds too good to be true but Mits is in and they are showing a working prototype.

AH, Westa always tries to say his 500u had major problems but I can assure you that I have one with windows facing it all around and gee, it is not an issue even on bright days. Just like the other thread that a guy shows a nice 5070 in a very bright room and gee...no problem.

Edit: Also the guy posting about 'plasma issues' is just stirring the pot. We all know plasma has the least to worry about compared to LCD, LCoS etc...

How do you know all this good stuff? You sure sound confident. Inside track??