Ruby 1080 @ 48hz?

Yes, it will take 1080p48. I don't believe 1080p24 works with it. The DVDO VP50 is a very nice unit that works well with the Ruby. Some are using Lumagens also.

--Darin

Darin. It's science and art. Art is sometimes intuitive and it most often is how you make it work especially when you don't know or understand the science.

Ruby only takes 48Hz on DVI as a PC input but not on HDMI. I believe it takes 1080p24 via component. 1080i deinterlaced from a VP50 is very very nice and at 48Hz for movies very smooth.

That will work fine. If you have a choice between a factory cable with DVI on one end and HDMI on the other, I would do that, but an adapter usually works ok. My I suggest monoprice.com for a pre-made cable with the correct connectors on each end. Best prices and very high quality.

yup.. I also use a monoprice cable. I think $20 or so. No sparklies. Great cable and no adapters. Some (one very very smart member, wm) have noted that the dvi input is not as sharp as the HDMI input on the Ruby but I don't really notice it and prefer the lack of judder at 48Hz.

I've read good things about the scalers out there but I'm partial to DVDO. I'm not sure if the other companies have a money back offer but DVDO has a 30 day money back offer. You might want to check w/ AVS. For AVS prices and if they do the 30 day guarantee also then you can't loose.

Andy! I hope you are not "loose" today. It can happen if you aren't careful as to what you eat or drink. We wouldn't want to "lose" you.

Andy, is the 1080i60->1080p48 capability you're referring to available in the launch of the VP50 or are you taking about the PReP feature in the VP50 which is going to be added in subsequent releases?

Getting projectors to support 1080p24 or 1080p48 is a great start in eliminating NTSC telecine motion artifacts, but the next step is getting sources to start supporting it. If I recall both 1080p24 and 1080p48 are both defined in both the HD-SDI and the HDMI 1.3 specs (which doesn't necessarily mean a manufacturerer will implement it even if they do add HD-SDI or HDMI 1.3). These formats are also problematic with a HTPC. A possible short term solution is the VP50 PReP feature which if it works as advertised will allow the processor to extract the original 24p content and then redisplay it at a desired frame rate (1:1 at 24hz or 1:2 at 48hz).

Mark P,

No, I was just referring to very good 1080i deinterlacing and outputting at the 48Hz framerate. This is a current feature. The past DVDO VP's all did the framerate conversion but did not do 1080i deinterlacing well. Now, imho, they do both. If only they can fix the audio problems and they'd have a virtually perfect VP.

I believe Prep is where the VP50 would take a 480p signal and reassemble the original interlaced image then do its own deinterlacing and scaling. I believe the thought behind this was to allow sources without 480i HDMI out to maintain as "pure" a digital signal as possible and let the VP50 do all the processing.


MarkH,

Guess I was already "loose". Got too excited. So when are you going to give us your impression of the Ruby vs. Pearl and the VP50. I know you have an opinion about the VP50's video deinterlacing. For the man with all the toys I'd love to hear what you think.

Interesting. I didn't realize that the VP50 will currently do 1080i60 (telecined film source) to 1080p48 conversion. Do you know exactly how it does it? Does it take 1080i60, deinterlace to 1080p60 extract the original 24p material and then show the result at 2-2 (one 24p film frame shown twice to get 48p)? If so, this is a very cool feature! Too bad my projector doesn't have a 48hz interface

Mark,

Unfortunately this is outside my realm of understanding. Perhaps, MarkH or one of folks at DVDO could explain.

All the iScan scalers will output a 1080p48 signal at 2:2 for the interlaced input sources which they can deinterlace (excepting the 1080i field scaling of the iScan HD through VP30). The VP50 can perform inverse telecine on 1080i, so it can also convert a 1080i60 source using 3:2 pulldown to a 1080p48 output which has a 2:2 cadence. The 1080i input is deinterlaced to 1080p, and then the original 24 Hz frames are used as a basis to frame rate convert the signal to 48 Hz, showing each original frame twice.

Also note that the VP50 can perform cadence detection on a progressive source such as 720p or 480p. If such a source has a 3:2 cadence then it can be converted to a 48 Hz output with 2:2.

- Dale Adams

Thanks Dale.

Impressive! I thought that people would have to wait for HDMI 1.3 or HD-SDI in order to remove ntsc telecine judder, but a person with a 48hz capable projector can use the VP50 and 1080i60hz sources such as an HD-DVD player and remove ntsc judder today. Very slick!

Fwiw, I've been using a VP50 for about two weeks now and I had no idea it had this capability (I don't have a 48hz capable projector though). I can also confirm Andy's comments about the great SD and HD deinterlacing and scaling capabilities of the VP50. I've done preliminary testing with it against a Realta HQV solution and it seems on par with the HQV but the VP50 has more features and is surprisingly bug free with the exception of some audio issues which apparently are being addressed as a top priority.

True 1080i60->1080p48 conversion coupled with per-pixel MAD and good scaling in the VP50 should make this the scaler of choice for pretty much any projector but in particular the Ruby, the JVC HD10K or any other 48hz capable projectors. Congratulations to DVDO for such a sucessful product launch.

What about HDCP (or lack there of) on the Ruby's DVI port?

What about 1080p24? Can it frame rate convert that to 1080p48? Seems silly, I know, but it would be useful for devices that only support 48hz and not 24hz input.

I suppose you could run 1080i60 into it and get the same results, but 1080p24 to 1080p48 framerate conversion seems a lot simpler with less room for error.

I have the same issue. I am looking for a VP to do vertical scaling for my 2.35:1 setup, but I am trying to find one with a 1080/24p input on HDMI, as this will be avaialble as an output on the 2nd gen HD-DVD players due in Europe in the next month or two.

From the DVDO website, the input specification is:

4 HDMI (RGB or YCbCr) processes 480i/p-60, 576i/p-50, 720p-50/60, 1080i-50/60, 1080p-50/60, VGA-SXGA@60Hz

so according to DVDO, there is no 1080p/24 input. Can anyone with a VP50 shed any light on this?. Is it really impossible or have they just not mentioned it (faint chance)?

PJG

I found this old thread when I searched for an answer to why the image looks noticeable softer at 48Hz than at 60Hz.

Has anybody else noticed this?
Is this caused by the VP50 or the Ruby?

Here is my setup:
- Ruby
- VP50 (firmware 1.01 beta)
- Toshiba A1
- HDMI from Tosh to VP50; DVI into the Ruby

Thanks!
______
Axel

I get terrific results using a crystalio II at 1080p 48hz to my Ruby. With Blu ray and HD DVD! Oh and also DTHEATER...

DVI @60Hz produces a noticeable sharper image than @48Hz.
____
Axel

Are you saying the sharpness level between 60 and 48Hz is the same with your setup?
____
Axel

I have the same setup. The Ruby has two different memories for 48Hz and 60hz, as pointed out by sspears when I questioned why each time I toggle there was a conflict with video and PC levels using the DVI. I do not use the DVI anymore because it was harder to get a sharper image as I had to play with brightness and contrast and changing color space in the VP50.

Maybe there is something about the A1 using yCbCr 422 and Ruby only output RGB in DVI screwing up the picture. Getting a cleaner sharper picture was more important than using 48Hz which still don't look all that judder free to me. I exclusively use HDMI yCbCr 422 to yCbCr 422 .

Even better, go to the calibration thread and adjust vertical enhancement ip-vs 8, 18, 19 and De/hpf, 25. No harm trying since the folks who has the Ruby was getting good results for ee/ringing. I like what I see. So clean and smooth now.

Thanks Philip for the pointers. I had also noticed the issue with video and PC levels when toggling between 48 and 60Hz and had contacted DVDO end of last year about it. They had replied that they were aware of it and were working on it....

In any case I'll have to check the settings of my Ruby......

Thanks!
____
Axel

I had the same setup, except I was using the Lumagen scaler. I didn't think 48hz looked judder free either. I think I mistakenly attributed the lack of smoothness in movies to 3:2 judder when it was actually just stutter caused by film's relatively low 24fps.

I also thought DVI wasn't as sharp as HDMI, but I'm not sure that it wasn't because of different memory settings for DVI vs HDMI. The only reason I was using DVI was for the 48hz input, so when I dropped that I just went back to HDMI as well instead of investigating further.

Anyone want to help me setting up my Nvidia control panel for 48hz (47.95)? I am not sure if I just change the first 60 to 47.95 or do I have to change all the settings in the advance panel.



Thanks to anyone that can help me out.