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Panasonic PT-AX100U Tweak/Calibration Thread - Page 7

post #181 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by mflanagan View Post

Im going DVI out from an Oppo DVD player. Hopefully your source can help you thru some troubleshooting steps.....let us know what you find out. Also you may want to try a Minimum setup (1 cable then add on) to try to narrow down your problem.

Yes - I have tried this with a HDMI connection straight from a Pioneer DVD player and the image is mint. =)

When it is done through a DVI/HDMI connection straight to a computer, you see the horizontal ghosting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander View Post

I can confirm that I get the exact same ghosting as what you are. I'm using a DVI->HDMI cable feeding from my Radion 9000 HTPC. I can now see that it is for this precise reason that I stated in one of my other posts that my AE500 was probably marginally sharper when viewing the windows desktop. I would be very keen to get a resolution for this issue.

This makes me feel a bit better. =) I would like to know if there is anyone who has a pc hooked up to this projector via DVI/HDMI or HDMI who is not experiencing this issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mflanagan View Post

Do you get ghosting when looking at text in the Panasonic's menu or just from a windows desktop?

No - the panasonic menu is pristine. The horizontal ghosting that occurs is very precise and almost looks intentional on Panasonics part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

Just curious, is your Nvidea card of recent vintage? I had similar issues with my 700. I was utilizing two different Radeon cards - the 9500 PRO and the 9550. It wasn't until I upgraded to a NVidea 6600GT that the problem went away.

ted

Good question. I have tried a older 5700 Ultra and a brand new 7600 GS. Both cards give identical output and both exhibit the horizontal ghosting pattern.

I am beginning to suspect that this could be some issue with DVI / HDCP and Panasonic? At this point, I could not recommend this projector to anyone who plans to digitally hook their HTPC up to it. In that sense it has been a great disappointment for me. Fantastic image right from a DVD player however. . .
post #182 of 356
We need someone with an HDMI-enabled video card (e.g. Radeon X1600 HDMI) to try this to see whether it has anything to do with the DVI->HDMI converter. Btw, my DVI->HDMI cable is only about 4ft long.
post #183 of 356
The 63% is measured from the center of the screen..........
post #184 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

The 63% is measured from the center of the screen..........

That still doesn't totally answer my question though. 63% of what = what?
post #185 of 356
63 percent of whatever the height of screen is.
post #186 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

63 percent of whatever the height of screen is.

Yes, but then what? My screen height is 58 inches. So 63% of that is 36. So what does that 36 tell me?
post #187 of 356
I think we really need a FAQ to answer this question, as it's asked over, and over, and over. (And I can see why, as it is confusing.)

63 % is 36 inches. This means that you can put the centerline of the the lens 36 inches above the centerline of the height. As the difference between the centerline of the height is 58/2 or 29 inches, you can put the centerline of the lens at 36-29 or about 7 inches above the top of the screen. I say "about" because we performed some rounding, so there's another half inch or so in the "real" calculations.

Make sense?

To further confuse things, 63% is 13% more than 50%, which means that you can put the centerline of the lens 13% of the height of the screen above the top of the screen. 13% of 58 is 7.54 inches, which means you can put the centerline of the lens 7.54 inches above the top of the screen. This is exactly what we get using the calculations given above (if we didn't round down, that is).

These are two different ways of looking at the same thing.
post #188 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

I think we really need a FAQ to answer this question, as it's asked over, and over, and over. (And I can see why, as it is confusing.)

63 % is 36 inches. This means that you can put the centerline of the the lens 36 inches above the centerline of the height. As the difference between the centerline of the height is 58/2 or 29 inches, you can put the centerline of the lens at 36-29 or about 7 inches above the top of the screen. I say "about" because we performed some rounding, so there's another half inch or so in the "real" calculations.

Make sense?

To further confuse things, 63% is 13% more than 50%, which means that you can put the centerline of the lens 13% of the height of the screen above the top of the screen. 13% of 58 is 7.54 inches, which means you can put the centerline of the lens 7.54 inches above the top of the screen. This is exactly what we get using the calculations given above (if we didn't round down, that is).

These are two different ways of looking at the same thing.

Ahh, I see now. Too bad you didn't write the manual for Panasonic. That section of their manual is poorly written. At the very least, they should give an example with one example screen height of how to do the calculation.

I guess it should be stated that this is the MAX that the lens can be above the screen, but you don't want to be at the max of 7.5 inches (for image issues). So ideally, the screen top should be no more than 4 or 5 inches below the lens (to be safe).
post #189 of 356
Hi All,

Let me try, since I am in the same situation I think I know what he is asking. He has a LOW ceiling.

The answer is that you can mount the projector UP TO A MAXIMUM of 7 inches above the top edge of the screen. The closer you get it to dead center of the screen the better.

So if you can have it lower than the top of your screen do it. If you cannot, you can go no more than 7" above the top edge of your screen.

I am currently installing the AX in the same type of low ceiling situation (7'6") ceiling with a 120" screen. It is mounted on my ceiling about 3" down from the top edge of the screen and am experiencing excellent results. Convergence is almost bang on.

Hope this helps,

z
post #190 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by zee12 View Post

Hi All,

Let me try, since I am in the same situation I think I know what he is asking. He has a LOW ceiling.

The answer is that you can mount the projector UP TO A MAXIMUM of 7 inches above the top edge of the screen. The closer you get it to dead center of the screen the better.

So if you can have it lower than the top of your screen do it. If you cannot, you can go no more than 7" above the top edge of your screen.

I am currently installing the AX in the same type of low ceiling situation (7'6") ceiling with a 120" screen. It is mounted on my ceiling about 3" down from the top edge of the screen and am experiencing excellent results. Convergence is almost bang on.

Hope this helps,

z

How far is the lens itself from the ceiling, due to the mount and the projector body?
post #191 of 356
I have an even worse problem. My ceiling is 7 feet, 7 inches tall. However, I have a beam that splits the room and comes into the room around 13 inches. So, I have to shoot underneath the beam, which limits where (in terms of height) I can put my screen. The screen will likely be very low.
post #192 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

How far is the lens itself from the ceiling, due to the mount and the projector body?


About 22" to lens center.

z
post #193 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McRae View Post

Yes - I have tried this with a HDMI connection straight from a Pioneer DVD player and the image is mint. =)

When it is done through a DVI/HDMI connection straight to a computer, you see the horizontal ghosting.

..........



I am beginning to suspect that this could be some issue with DVI / HDCP and Panasonic? At this point, I could not recommend this projector to anyone who plans to digitally hook their HTPC up to it. In that sense it has been a great disappointment for me. Fantastic image right from a DVD player however. . .


HDCP is simply a handshaking protocol the comes with the data packet. It should not affect the video quality as it is not part of that data frame. This is the 3rd generation of HDMI product from Panasonic and though they had some handshake and 1:1 mapping issues with the 700, my understanding is that all issues were resolved by the 900.

I've not followed this so I'm assuming you are sourcing 1280 x 720p and the pj maps correctly to 1:1. To me it is likely in the cable/vidcard chain . Have you tried a shorter cable?

Have you tried the alternate output of the vid card? Best bet would be to substitute an HDMI transport from a DVD player source.

I'd suggest a post in the AVS HTPC forum might benefit.

ted
post #194 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by zee12 View Post

About 22" to lens center.

z

Almost 2 feet? That sounds like a lot. Is that on a pole?
post #195 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

Almost 2 feet? That sounds like a lot. Is that on a pole?

No my contractor rigged me a platform so that it looks like it belongs.

z
post #196 of 356
update on the horizontal ghosting issue:

The contact that I was given by Panasonic support returned my call today. I sent him some higher res images so hopefully they will be able to track this problem down.
post #197 of 356
I have contacted our local Panasonic technical department and passed the information to them as well (including your pictures). Hopefully we will get some resolution.
post #198 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McRae View Post


I am beginning to suspect that this could be some issue with DVI / HDCP and Panasonic? At this point, I could not recommend this projector to anyone who plans to digitally hook their HTPC up to it. In that sense it has been a great disappointment for me. Fantastic image right from a DVD player however. . .


This makes me nervous as all my video will come from an HTPC. Is anyone getting a sharp desktop with HDMi? If so which video card are you using and which adapter are you using? My PX-100 is on the way . . . .should I cancel my order?
post #199 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballan View Post

This makes me nervous as all my video will come from an HTPC. Is anyone getting a sharp desktop with HDMi? If so which video card are you using and which adapter are you using? My PX-100 is on the way . . . .should I cancel my order?

The vga input looks excellent, no noise at all only a sharp and stable image. So if the hdmi does not work out there is an excellent second option, just use a dvi-a > vga cable.

peter
post #200 of 356
Wow, hey what's this ax100 talk doing in the +$2500 projector side of the house?

DVI ghosting issues? Interesting..............

I'm going on 100+ hours, and everything looks good via HTPC(DVI-HDMI) and XBOX 360(COMPONENT). XP Desktop is sharp.

I'll need to do a complete black/white image test like the images below to see if I have ghosting that I didnt notice yet. I have a slight astigmatism in my left eye so that doesnt help either. I'll look up close and take photos when I can.

Here is my complete HTPC setup. (I use a 50 foot monoprice HDMI cable)
I run everything through my HDMI AVR. (720p)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...43#post8842043


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McRae View Post

There seem to be alot of experienced people here and I am hoping that I can get some help.

I am a noob to the world of projectors. I recently purchased a ax100. I was waiting for some cables from monoprice to come so I hooked it up to my older pioneer 480i dvd player. The image quality was impressive to my eye.

My cables arrived from monoprice and I hooked up my HTPC via a DVI / HDMI converter to a 35' HDMI cable.

I noticed first that movies played full screen did not have the same 'pop' that the 480i dvd player has.

Even worse I am getting some strange ghosting around pixels in certain circumstances as seen in the images below. Notice that the 100% image has no ghosting. You can see the ghosting most clearly in the 70% image. This is extremely disappointing for me as the HTPC was going to be the primary source for the projector.

Any time you have white or black text on grey background, you see this problem.

The video card is a nVidia and outputing at 720p and the photos are in perfect focus.



Is there something wrong here? I read in the manual that using DVI / HDMI adapter is not recommended - is this the reason why? Are there any techies that have any insight into this strange problem?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McRae View Post

JHouse - good tips

mflanagan - here is what I know thus far:

a) The effect happens when the computer is putting out 1280x720 (native resolution). It may happen at other but this is really the only resolution that I care about. =). The 'artifact' or 'ghosting' is very precise and would be harder to detect when using a non native resolution
b) The effect does not happen when you use a vga cable (or rather, you could make an argument for seeing some of the artifacts but you can sort of tune it out using some of the menu options (dot options etc.).
c) The effect is not seen when watching dvd video through the same HDMI cable. However the DVI/HDMI cable adapter is not being used in this setup.
d) The effect is seen when using a $50 monster DVI/HDMI adapter. There seems to be no difference between the monster adapter and the $5 monoprice one.
e) I have tried two different video cards (5700 Ultra and 7600 GS) - exactly the same result on both

Because the signal is digital, I would not think that you would see this ghosting in this manner. The ghosting is also very precise, it is 2 pixels on either side. The 70% image demonstrates this well - look at the '7'; on either side of it you can see another '7' in white.

A question for you mflanagan: do you have your projector using the DVI/HDMI adapter hooked up to a computer or a DVD player?
post #201 of 356
hey Jazjon - a couple questions for you - good to hear that someone is successfully using a HTPC with the projector via DVI

a) what video card are you using on the HTPC
b) are you running s-video from the HTPC video card at the same time (not even in anysort of monitor cloan mode - is there a svideo cable plugged into the back of your HTPC to a television?)

When you do your tests, note that the problem does not occur on white on black or black on white. It only occurs when white or black is on a grey color. I used the Nokia monitor test for the screenshots you have posted.

The only thing I have not done is to unplug the s-video and other vga cable from the video card, do a reboot and see if perhaps having both of those items connected to the card at the same time is making the card send out a signal that creates the ghosting.

If I can't solve it, I was planning on creating a separate thread for the issue. I still have not heard back from the Panasonic tech regarding this issue.
post #202 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McRae View Post

There seem to be alot of experienced people here and I am hoping that I can get some help.

I am a noob to the world of projectors. I recently purchased a ax100. I was waiting for some cables from monoprice to come so I hooked it up to my older pioneer 480i dvd player. The image quality was impressive to my eye.

My cables arrived from monoprice and I hooked up my HTPC via a DVI / HDMI converter to a 35' HDMI cable.

I noticed first that movies played full screen did not have the same 'pop' that the 480i dvd player has.

Even worse I am getting some strange ghosting around pixels in certain circumstances as seen in the images below. Notice that the 100% image has no ghosting. You can see the ghosting most clearly in the 70% image. This is extremely disappointing for me as the HTPC was going to be the primary source for the projector.

Any time you have white or black text on grey background, you see this problem.

The video card is a nVidia and outputing at 720p and the photos are in perfect focus.



Is there something wrong here? I read in the manual that using DVI / HDMI adapter is not recommended - is this the reason why? Are there any techies that have any insight into this strange problem?

Ok I have the ax100 hooked up via dvi to hdmi using my radeon 9800 ati card. As soon as I read this post I had to see if I had the same problem.... well I did. Mine was easily seen in the ati catalyst control center on the display options screen where there is a lot of black text on gray background. I immediately went to the projector menu on the ax100 and started playing around with settings trying to get rid of the ghosting. Well I found something that WORKED! I went to options and then aspect ratio and switched away fom 16:9 and then back to 16:9. When I switched back to 16:9 ghosting was completely gone. Someone else please try this out and let us know if it works.

thanks,
Brendin
post #203 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnaron View Post

Ok I have the ax100 hooked up via dvi to hdmi using my radeon 9800 ati card. As soon as I read this post I had to see if I had the same problem.... well I did. Mine was easily seen is the ati catalyst control center on the display options screen where there is a lot of black text on gray background. I immediately went to the projector menu on the ax100 and started playing around with settings trying to get rid of the ghosting. Well I found something that WORKED! I went to options and then aspect ratio and switched away fom 16:9 and then back to 16:9. When I switched back to 16:9 ghosting was completely gone. Someone else please try this out and let us know if it works.

thanks,
Brendin

This is GREAT news - so we know that it is something to do with the signals that PC's are sending out and that perhaps that the projector is not interpreting them properly. At least we now know that it can be fixed in software at some level.
post #204 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McRae View Post

This is GREAT news - so we know that it is something to do with the signals that PC's are sending out and that perhaps that the projector is not interpreting them properly. At least we now know that it can be fixed in software at some level.

I'd like someone else to try it to confirm....

I left the projector on and powered down my HTPC completely off. I turned it on and booted into xp. I went to the catalyst control screen and ghosting was again there as I expected it would be. I used the aspect button on the remote and cycled through the ratios till I got back to 16:9... ghosting is gone! Changing aspect ratios must make the projector resync correctly to the PC.

Brendin
post #205 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnaron View Post

I'd like someone else to try it to confirm....

I left the projector on and powered down my HTPC completely off. I turned it on and booted into xp. I went to the catalyst control screen and ghosting was again there as I expected it would be. I used the aspect button on the remote and cycled through the ratios till I got back to 16:9... ghosting is gone! Changing aspect ratios must make the projector resync correctly to the PC.

Brendin

wow - so it was the remote aspect ratio that you were playing with, not anything in the ATI drivers?
post #206 of 356
it worked, it worked, it worked!!!!

thank you very much - I can now enjoy HTPC bliss as originally intended =)
post #207 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McRae View Post

it worked, it worked, it worked!!!!

thank you very much - I can now enjoy HTPC bliss as originally intended =)

Sounds like it might be an HDMI handshake problem - changing aspect ratio means a re synch.

ted
post #208 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McRae View Post

wow - so it was the remote aspect ratio that you were playing with, not anything in the ATI drivers?


Yes... the aspect ratio on the projector.

Brendin
post #209 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazjon View Post

Wow, hey what's this ax100 talk doing in the +$2500 projector side of the house?

DVI ghosting issues? Interesting..............

I'm going on 100+ hours, and everything looks good via HTPC(DVI-HDMI) and XBOX 360(COMPONENT). XP Desktop is sharp.

I'll need to do a complete black/white image test like the images below to see if I have ghosting that I didnt notice yet. I have a slight astigmatism in my left eye so that doesnt help either. I'll look up close and take photos when I can.

Here is my complete HTPC setup. (I use a 50 foot monoprice HDMI cable)
I run everything through my HDMI AVR. (720p)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...43#post8842043

Jazjon
Great news!! Nice HTPC setup up. I'm building a new HTPC for the AX-100 and so glad I don't need an analog connection to get a clean image. Do you think there is any advantage buying a HDMI video card?
post #210 of 356
Whohoo. I was getting anoyed by that.
Also how can you play games via DVD-HDMI.
It looks all wrong. Wrong aspect. cannot get 1024x768 to work.
Only 640x480 and 800x600. With No widescreen resolutions.

I have tried Battlefield 2 and NFS most wanted.
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