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Epson EMP-TW1000 1080p LCD HDMI1.3 - Page 46

post #1351 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitris View Post

Hi everyone. I have a TW1000 review sample and I 've been facing a weird issue. As I usually do, I used my PC and Nokia monitor test to display some test patterns, among which are convergence test patterns. Since I was feeding the Epson through HDMI at 1080p, I had 1:1 pixel mapping and the pattern lines were 1 pixel thick. Well the image I got was unique to say the least. I tried again, this time feeding the pj 720p and the results were slightly different but again not what I expected as normal behavior. All vertical lines were displaying various levels of gray instead of primary or complimentary colors and in the case of primary colors test patterns the horizontal lines were also missing some colors. Check the images below to see what I mean. Personally I'm out of ideas as to why this is happening, since to my recollection I've never seen this before. Note that while viewing normal video material played through the PC everything looks fine. Any ideas? Owners of TW1000 can test this yourselves by downloading Nokia monitor test (it's free) from here: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multime...tor-Test.shtml I would initially like to rule out a malfunction of my particular sample and then move from there as to the actual reason for this, so if you try this on your Epson, please post your findings.

Pictures taken with my digital camera:
Alternating RGB crosshatch pattern with overlayed circle


Cyan crosshatch pattern with overlayed circle


Reference screenshot of the RGB pattern captured using prtscn button


Edit: Just to get theories started, I think we can safely assume that this has nothing to do with the optics, but is signal processing related, either at the pj or the pc, since in order to display gray lines on primary colors test patterns, the projector would have to add equal amounts of R,G,B where only one of these existed in the original pattern.

Have you tried any other program material? Test dvd's? I wonder if you could make files out of those Nokia test patterns and put them on a CD-RW or DVD+RW and play them through an HDMI connected dvd player and see what happens.
post #1352 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

I think many need to take into account the RS1s brightness and understand that it is a unit that (at least compared to the Epson) has twice the brightness,

D'oh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

better on/off CR

D'oh! (and according to Cine4home it's 12,000:1 compared to 1200:1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

and most likely at least as good full field black level. There is a pretty good "wow" factor when you combine all that and see it on screen.

D'oh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

...all the user adjustments it has to dial in things (this is the RS1s main weakness IMO...

D'oh! (I hate calibrating--so the RS1 is PERFECT for me!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

Oh and I have no doubt you'll upgrade to the RS1...the temptation will kill you.

DAMNIT! My goose is cooked.
post #1353 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

DAMNIT! My goose is cooked.

Don't come to me to take your sloppy seconds again!! I am just fine with the tw-700......for now!

I am tracking these developments as well. But, I will not ...NOT...tolerate reduction in "punchability" from the power of brightness. Hence, I want to see what happens in the next rev of the 1080p's. But, I consider the RS1 to be in that field already insofar as its brightness at D65 and "Best Modes." Just doesn't look to me that for sports viewing it has the same headroom in brightness that the Epson's (especially tw700) might have. I think it will be fall before we see much new to compare the RS1 against, and then we can consider the delta vs. the current crop of Epson 1080p's and the RS1.
post #1354 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

D'oh!


D'oh! (and according to Cine4home it's 12,000:1 compared to 1200:1)


D'oh!


D'oh! (I hate calibrating--so the RS1 is PERFECT for me!)


DAMNIT! My goose is cooked.

hehe this is the funniest post I've read in a really time, I'm still laughing.
You really didn't think you'd escape from upgraditis did you ?
post #1355 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I got my hands on one of these today for calibration...

Tom, thanks for your thorough and insightful report.

I'm not sure if you've had the chance to read Cine4Home's testing review on the Epson, but more than any other reviews, I find them to be technically thorough and trustworthy.

Cine4home before calibration CIE - Epson 1080







Cine4home after calibration CIE - Epson 1080





Ekkehart's calibration results seem impressive. Might want to check with him on how he adjusted his settings to get this result. His username here is Cine4Home.
post #1356 of 1603
Quote:


Might want to check with him on how he adjusted his settings to get this result.

Don't know exactly what you would want me to check. We got virtually identical post-calibration results.
post #1357 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Have you tried any other program material? Test dvd's? I wonder if you could make files out of those Nokia test patterns and put them on a CD-RW or DVD+RW and play them through an HDMI connected dvd player and see what happens.

None of the test dvds I have feature similar patterns. Normal crosshatch patterns with white lines like those found on most test dvds do not display this issue. As for the CD-RW that's a good idea, however I had to return the projector today, so I can't perform any further tests. I will keep it in mind though in case I get my hands on another TW1000 in the future. In the meantime any TW1000 owners with a PC willing to test this? I would at least like to rule out having a defective item. Use of the Nokia monitor test is very simple, you don't even have to install it on your pc.
post #1358 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Don't know exactly what you would want me to check. We got virtually identical post-calibration results.

Tom,
Thought Ekkehart might offer some insight on this comment from your review.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I encountered only one problem. I could not reign in Cyan. As you can see, even after setting its saturation to zero, it was still oversaturated. The Natural Color Mode may fix this. I'll check tomorrow.
post #1359 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitris View Post

Hi everyone. I have a TW1000 review sample and I 've been facing a weird issue. As I usually do, I used my PC and Nokia monitor test to display some test patterns, among which are convergence test patterns. Since I was feeding the Epson through HDMI at 1080p, I had 1:1 pixel mapping and the pattern lines were 1 pixel thick. Well the image I got was unique to say the least. I tried again, this time feeding the pj 720p and the results were slightly different but again not what I expected as normal behavior. All vertical lines were displaying various levels of gray instead of primary or complimentary colors and in the case of primary colors test patterns the horizontal lines were also missing some colors. Check the images below to see what I mean. Personally I'm out of ideas as to why this is happening, since to my recollection I've never seen this before. Note that while viewing normal video material played through the PC everything looks fine. Any ideas? Owners of TW1000 can test this yourselves by downloading Nokia monitor test (it's free) from here: [snip] I would initially like to rule out a malfunction of my particular sample and then move from there as to the actual reason for this, so if you try this on your Epson, please post your findings.

Pictures taken with my digital camera:


I get the exact same result on the RGB pattern.

More interestingly, when i access the gamma setting by remote control it freezes the picture and all the colors and lines are displayed perfectly. So there is probably some processing that helps things look good with movies, but not with still computer images (through the hdmi port). Fiddling with other settings like sharpness on the projector or changing display timings in nvidia control panel does not change this. The info slider says the signal is RGB-video. Any way to change this?

It's also slightly visible with thin colored text (not black or white), 50% of the text has a different tone than the other 50%, while none of the parts has the exact correct color.

Amazingly, as I was fiddling with the gamma controls trying to find a solution, when I access gamma so the picture freezes, and then press memory button, and then escaping by for instance pressing memory button again the menu disappears and the picture unfreezes. The previously mentioned processing circuit seems to be disabled leaving a pixel perfect screen. After doing this "trick" the projector passes "the nokia test" !!!

Cheers
post #1360 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by tutch View Post

I get the exact same result on the RGB pattern.

More interestingly, when i access the gamma setting by remote control it freezes the picture and all the colors and lines are displayed perfectly. So there is probably some processing that helps things look good with movies, but not with still computer images (through the hdmi port). Fiddling with other settings like sharpness on the projector or changing display timings in nvidia control panel does not change this. The info slider says the signal is RGB-video. Any way to change this?

It's also slightly visible with thin colored text (not black or white), 50% of the text has a different tone than the other 50%, while none of the parts has the exact correct color.

Amazingly, as I was fiddling with the gamma controls trying to find a solution, when I access gamma so the picture freezes, and then press memory button, and then escaping by for instance pressing memory button again the menu disappears and the picture unfreezes. The previously mentioned processing circuit seems to be disabled leaving a pixel perfect screen. After doing this "trick" the projector passes "the nokia test" !!!

Cheers

Is there some setting in the de-interlacer? Film, auto or other??
post #1361 of 1603
Quote:
Tom,
Thought Ekkehart might offer some insight on this comment from your review.

OK. It's a very small difference, small enough to attribute to unit-to-unit variation.
post #1362 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by tutch View Post

I get the exact same result on the RGB pattern.

More interestingly, when i access the gamma setting by remote control it freezes the picture and all the colors and lines are displayed perfectly. So there is probably some processing that helps things look good with movies, but not with still computer images (through the hdmi port). Fiddling with other settings like sharpness on the projector or changing display timings in nvidia control panel does not change this. The info slider says the signal is RGB-video. Any way to change this?

Cheers

Thanks tutch, good catch! So we can rule out defective sample. Looks like a deinterlacer issue. The thing is though that since in my case (and I'm guessing yours as well) the signal fed to the projector was progressive, the deinterlacer shouldn't have interfered at all. Hopefully this is something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade, I'll try to contact Epson and get an official response on this. As to the info saying RGB-video, try changing the setting for the HDMI port and see if that makes any difference. I'm talking about the "HDMI video range" setting in the Signal menu. During my test I had it in Expanded mode. If that's what you had too, try setting in to Normal (although I'm guessing it will have no effect on the pattern). Also try changing the "output scaling" setting. I'm guessing the pattern will change, but will it revert to normal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Is there some setting in the de-interlacer? Film, auto or other??

As far as I can remember, no.
post #1363 of 1603
You are all getting a tad too technical for me, but from what I have experienced from my Epson TW-1000, I would take a step back and wait. I have had numerous teething problems with my Epson since it arrived and even had a replacement rejected (by me) for having worse artefacts than those of the original TW-1000 I had (and still have).

I am now waiting on Epson to send an engineer around to me (which I hope they do sooner rather than later - even though they havent admited they will as of yet) so that I can show them the artefacts, which will hopefully make their engineer tell Epson to pull their fingers out. I am not the only one having this problem and the sooner Epson acknowledge it the better for their home PJ market.

The symptoms range from what appears to be miss aligned panels to ghosting/ringing on text and straight edges via windows/PS3 and Mac browsers and finally (another issue I noticed under dark scenes in C&C3 and 24) a dust blob in the top right hand corner of the screen. Strangely enough, my BenQ PE7700 had the same issues with dust. However, in the case of this Epson, the results of the dust blob are not as severe and limited to a VERY small patch, whereas the BenQ had multiple dust blobs.

Anyways, I am sure that Epson are getting complaints from others as I know at least of a couple of one person on the uk avforum with the same issue, but I do not know what their plans are, as of yet. I do know that I've been told from a reliable source that Epson try hard to fix issues they have with their kit and are normally a good company when it comes to warrenty etc. I just hope they are aware of the problem and even if it is limited to a few people I hope they find the time to fix the issues with this model.
post #1364 of 1603
Has anybody noticed this sort of problem showing up with dvd's? Anything that would lead you to suspect that this monitor test pattern problem is proof of an issue that shows up when watching dvd's or hd material?
post #1365 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitris View Post

Thanks tutch, good catch! So we can rule out defective sample. Looks like a deinterlacer issue. The thing is though that since in my case (and I'm guessing yours as well) the signal fed to the projector was progressive, the deinterlacer shouldn't have interfered at all. Hopefully this is something that can be fixed with a firmware upgrade, I'll try to contact Epson and get an official response on this. As to the info saying RGB-video, try changing the setting for the HDMI port and see if that makes any difference. I'm talking about the "HDMI video range" setting in the Signal menu. During my test I had it in Expanded mode. If that's what you had too, try setting in to Normal (although I'm guessing it will have no effect on the pattern). Also try changing the "output scaling" setting. I'm guessing the pattern will change, but will it revert to normal?



As far as I can remember, no.

Yeah I also noticed that the RGB gamut still image in the menu options clears the problems! If only it would work when not still....
post #1366 of 1603
hello there

first of all, thank you all for this great thread.

i first saw a picture of the tw 1000 in a magazin around january. from this time on, i started to search the forums about this beamer.

unfortunately my favorite shop in switzerland has not yet recieved a model, to check it out by myself.

i have some questions about the beamer. i'm not sure if someone already mentioned it, i read almost every post to this thread and i used the search function, with no answer to my question.

i plan to use the tw1000 with my brand new ps3, mostly to watch blu ray movies, and to play some fun games with it. as a matter of fact, i use my computer for the dvd playback, and i also want to be able to play pc games on it.

1.1: does anyone know, or could anyone test, if the beamer makes the 1080p @ 60hz?

1.2: i guess for quality purpose it would be best, just to change the cable, between pc (with a dvi to hdmi adapter) and ps3, because it's only one hdmi connector.
i'm afraid losing quality with a switchbox, or connecting the computer only with component input. what do you think?

1.3: is the beamer only available in black?


i have two other questions, not directly connected with the epson beamer, but also not really offtopic:

2.1 i can not find a read only blu ray drive anywhere. (the main reasen i bought a ps3)
does anyone know why?

2.2 and whats with the region areas A, B and C. i can not find any information about the region code on amazon or ohter online shops. i prefer buying some movies from the states, mainly because of the available dts (or now uncompressed audio) sound in english and always subtitle in english. (i can't understand why they don't add the english subtitle on some german spoken movies; eg. Man on Fire, it's just a few megs).


thanks a lot

cheers

Summerfogel
post #1367 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summerfogel View Post

hello there

first of all, thank you all for this great thread.

i first saw a picture of the tw 1000 in a magazin around january. from this time on, i started to search the forums about this beamer.

unfortunately my favorite shop in switzerland has not yet recieved a model, to check it out by myself.

i have some questions about the beamer. i'm not sure if someone already mentioned it, i read almost every post to this thread and i used the search function, with no answer to my question.

i plan to use the tw1000 with my brand new ps3, mostly to watch blu ray movies, and to play some fun games with it. as a matter of fact, i use my computer for the dvd playback, and i also want to be able to play pc games on it.

1.1: does anyone know, or could anyone test, if the beamer makes the 1080p @ 60hz?

1.2: i guess for quality purpose it would be best, just to change the cable, between pc (with a dvi to hdmi adapter) and ps3, because it's only one hdmi connector.
i'm afraid losing quality with a switchbox, or connecting the computer only with component input. what do you think?

1.3: is the beamer only available in black?


i have two other questions, not directly connected with the epson beamer, but also not really offtopic:

2.1 i can not find a read only blu ray drive anywhere. (the main reasen i bought a ps3)
does anyone know why?

2.2 and whats with the region areas A, B and C. i can not find any information about the region code on amazon or ohter online shops. i prefer buying some movies from the states, mainly because of the available dts (or now uncompressed audio) sound in english and always subtitle in english. (i can't understand why they don't add the english subtitle on some german spoken movies; eg. Man on Fire, it's just a few megs).


thanks a lot

cheers

Summerfogel


1.1 yes, of course the TW-1000 can do 1080p60. I don't know of any 1080p projector that cannot do 1080p60

1.2 actually, there should be little if any noticeable difference if you pass digital video signal via a HDMI switcher or connect it directly to the projector.

1.3 I think in Europe, it will be only available in Black. In Japan, it is in white. In US, it is available in both black and white. For the rest of the world, it looks like it is only available in black.

2.1 Do you mean a read only Blu-ray drive for computer? Well, I haven't done much research into this topic, but why don't you want to use a read and write Blu-ray drive in your computer?

2.2 you can learn about the Blu-ray region coding here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
unfortunately, Europe is not in the same region as US.

the following is a list of region coded discs:-
http://bluray.lindsite.dk/
post #1368 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Has anybody noticed this sort of problem showing up with dvd's? Anything that would lead you to suspect that this monitor test pattern problem is proof of an issue that shows up when watching dvd's or hd material?

I saw 2-3 movies on the projector, both simple DVD and HD material and I could not see any indication of the issue. Seems to affect only static images.
post #1369 of 1603
Mine looks fantastic with movies, tv, whatever. I don't look at static images on my pj, so I can't comment on that, but there are no artifact issues with regular material.
post #1370 of 1603
I have the Pro Cinema 1080, and I just got a PS3 the day before yesterday. Blu-Ray is fantastic. I've watched 2 movies so far, no glitches. I'm connected HDMI directly to the projector at 1080P. Being able to load photos, stream MP3's, play video games and surf the internet wirelessly on teh PS3 are all bonuses. I love this combination. Standard DVD doesn't look half bad either.

mooneycj
post #1371 of 1603
I'll add that I also have spent over 2 months with this projector, and artifacting on both standard DVD (upconverted to 1080i) and HD material is simply not a problem whatsoever.

Standard cable channels look like crap, but that is to be expected...
post #1372 of 1603
Sorry if this is a repeat of other information, but it is confirmed now that there is no real difference between the Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080, the Powerlite Home Cinema 1080, or the EMP-tw1000. I just found the Owners Manual (just posted recently) on the Epson website for the PowerLite Home Cinema 1080 and in the Declaration of Conformity section just before the Appendix, it references itself as being the EMP-tw1000 and that the Home Cinema 1080 is just a marketing name. This is significant because the Pro Cinema 1080 states the same. It references itself as the EMP-tw1000 and that the Pro Cinema 1080 is just a marketing name.

Looks like Epson is finally getting real in their approach to the U.S. market by releasing a U.S. model that is on par with the International equivalent model on a direct sale basis to the consumer at a relative equivalent price.

Link below. (had to get at it another way since it is not available right from the Home Cinema 1080 reference page yet)

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/s...=Doc&oid=88339
post #1373 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandlim View Post


2.1 Do you mean a read only Blu-ray drive for computer? Well, I haven't done much research into this topic, but why don't you want to use a read and write Blu-ray drive in your computer?

2.2 you can learn about the Blu-ray region coding here:-
unfortunately, Europe is not in the same region as US.

the following is a list of region coded discs:-

thank you for your quick and helpful answer.

2.1 yes i meant a read only blu-ray drive.
i just want to play the movies. i don't even have a dvd-burner in my pc. lol!
but i think i found a interessting drive while i was surfing through the urls you've posted. the GGW-H10N from LG, it's a hybrid drive, that can read and write blu-ray and playback hd-dvd.
in combination with any-dvd i guess i have free access to wathever disc format or region code there is.

i mainly bought the ps3 because it's the cheapest bd player. of course i'm looking forward to titles like gt5 or tekken.

2.2 i read about the region areas in the german version of the blu-ray description on wikipedia, but i couldn't find information about the region code on the movies itself. eg. amazon writes with dvd always the region code, with blu-ray there's no information about the code.
the list on your second url was very helpful.
i think it takes a little more time for all shops, to update and convert their libary.

so then, i'm looking forward to end my installation here in brasil and find the epson emp-tw1000 back home somewhere

cheers

lol, i had to remove the urls because i'm a newby to this forum
post #1374 of 1603
hi

how are the black levels, the contrast ? the JVC RS1/ HD1 as set the bar so high every projector is compared to it. what about the TW1000 and the PANA AE1000 and the MITSU ?
one feature interesting is that the TW1000 can be very bright in a white living room, reaching 1200ansi measured (of course not at D65 ). How is shading? often an issue or not ?
thanks.
post #1375 of 1603
Summerfogel

I have hooked up a PS3 to the TW1000. It looks great on a 100' screen. The games are very impressive. I have also watched a few BR movies and they are great, but it depends on the title. Some of them are still sub par transfers. In the future, the BR movies will be an increadible format based on the glimpse I have had.
Cheers
Sam
post #1376 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

D'oh!


D'oh! (and according to Cine4home it's 12,000:1 compared to 1200:1)


D'oh!


D'oh! (I hate calibrating--so the RS1 is PERFECT for me!)


DAMNIT! My goose is cooked.


Hey B

You are insane!! are you really looking at switching again?
There must be a 12 step program for upgradeitis....!

Drop me an email from the Betty Ford and let me know if you have decided to jump ship!

S
post #1377 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly77 View Post

Hey B

You are insane!! are you really looking at switching again?
There must be a 12 step program for upgradeitis....!

Drop me an email from the Betty Ford and let me know if you have decided to jump ship!

S

Yeah, it's an affliction/addiction. It tricks you into thinking you'll be satisfied as soon as you get the next one, and then something better always comes along. I'm really starting to feel the pinch since there's not much room left to grow.

But I will say one thing, I'm not a grumbly, grouchy, unhappy upgrader. I really enjoy the researching and learning process and I REALLY love unpacking a new toy. I'm not going to throw up test screens and nitpick something to death and complain that I bought it. I love each one for a little while and then set it free

See, that puts me over in the "powder upgrade" wing of the clinic rather than the "crack upgrade" wing with the Upgraders Anonymous meetings and all

But I did participate in Step 1. I admitted that I enjoy the hobby of electronics more than I enjoy the actual movies (most of which disappoint me).
post #1378 of 1603
Has anyone had any luck in solving the PC input text problems? Also, have Epson 1080p owners noticed that it is VERY hard to focus the lens? It will NEVER quite be crystal clear for me, even when setting all the menu sharpness to advanced and hi...

I'm getting VERY depressed with this PJ. My PJ issues keep rising by the day!

Soft focus
Gamut/text errors on PC/PS3/Mac text
Dust Blobs
Badly aligned panels creating green and red tints on both sides of screen

You can see why I am VERY annoyed with this PJ right now. It started well, then more and more issues started to manifest. The text and panel alignment issues were there from the start and now the others issues have begun to manifest. I wonder what I will find tomorrow! Probably wont even start....
post #1379 of 1603
Get it replaced under warranty. The issues you mention are not normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikerules View Post

Has anyone had any luck in solving the PC input text problems? Also, have Epson 1080p owners noticed that it is VERY hard to focus the lens? It will NEVER quite be crystal clear for me, even when setting all the menu sharpness to advanced and hi...

I'm getting VERY depressed with this PJ. My PJ issues keep rising by the day!

Soft focus
Gamut/text errors on PC/PS3/Mac text
Dust Blobs
Badly aligned panels creating green and red tints on both sides of screen

You can see why I am VERY annoyed with this PJ right now. It started well, then more and more issues started to manifest. The text and panel alignment issues were there from the start and now the others issues have begun to manifest. I wonder what I will find tomorrow! Probably wont even start....
post #1380 of 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikerules View Post

Has anyone had any luck in solving the PC input text problems? Also, have Epson 1080p owners noticed that it is VERY hard to focus the lens? It will NEVER quite be crystal clear for me, even when setting all the menu sharpness to advanced and hi...

I'm getting VERY depressed with this PJ. My PJ issues keep rising by the day!

Soft focus
Gamut/text errors on PC/PS3/Mac text
Dust Blobs
Badly aligned panels creating green and red tints on both sides of screen

You can see why I am VERY annoyed with this PJ right now. It started well, then more and more issues started to manifest. The text and panel alignment issues were there from the start and now the others issues have begun to manifest. I wonder what I will find tomorrow! Probably wont even start....

You must have a defective unit, I don't have any of those problems at all. Mine looks great.
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