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JL Audio Fathom 13" Sub - Page 5

post #121 of 6590
10/27/06 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

One Fathom 113 is now hooked up and running in the system. Rather than run a bunch of measurements now, I ran the ARO calibration and am going to listen to some music, then watch a bass spectacular movie or 2, report the subjective stuff, THEN take the measurements.


Awesome... Will be checking this thread in a couple of hours... =)
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post #122 of 6590
10/27/06 at 4:52pm
Me too!
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post #123 of 6590
10/27/06 at 4:55pm
this should be good

the suspense is killing me
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post #124 of 6590
10/27/06 at 6:08pm
The joy of having kids ... My 9 year old wanted to watch "Monster House" ... The movie was pretty entertaining. The Fathom can definately shake a room, too.

There is a scene in which the house comes alive, with tree trunks for legs... and it starts walking down a street. Think Jurassic Park ... and a single Fathom 113 had the entire room shaking. It was deep, visceral, and VERY tight.

I have never watched this movie before, so a comparison with other subs is not yet possible, but the 113 has serious potential.

More later ...
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post #125 of 6590
10/27/06 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Bosso,

Mustard or Mayo? Maybe those words would go down more easily if you dipped them in a really nice olive oil.

Pete,

I prefer mayo, but my Doc says not a good idea...

Here are Ilkka's 2M GP results of the PB-12/2 thingy in 20Hz tune.

Let's remember what I said: "There's little chance that the Fathom "...played deeper, louder, and tighter than the SVS [SVS PB12-Plus/2] with any material I chose."

I'd be very surprised if this is true in any sense unless non-linear distortions are not considered. Even then, the Fathom will have a tough time matching output with a 2X12" ported sub from 15-30Hz.

Above 30Hz, it's possible, but if the subs were level matched in the same system, I doubt it would be easy to catch that one sub played deeper and louder."

Then, remember also that Ilkka's numbers are ground plane, not corner loaded in a room.

Now, Craig, OTOH, has the 113. I expect that sub to be a different story... Let's strap in and watch the show.

Bosso
LL
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post #126 of 6590
10/27/06 at 8:32pm
Bosso ... According to the weather forecast, I may get to GP a bunch of subwoofers the weekend of the 4th and 5th .... If this happens, it will consist of:

QS response curves, and max output @ 16, 20, 25, 31, 40 and 50 Hz from each sub. It will be raw RTA graphs, with distortion being a function of harmonics as shown on the graph.

The Fathom is a pretty darn nice sub - I am looking forward to spending meaningful time with it this weekend...
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post #127 of 6590
10/28/06 at 5:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Pete,

I prefer mayo, but my Doc says not a good idea...

Here are Ilkka's 2M GP results of the PB-12/2 thingy in 20Hz tune.

Let's remember what I said: "There's little chance that the Fathom "...played deeper, louder, and tighter than the SVS [SVS PB12-Plus/2] with any material I chose."

I'd be very surprised if this is true in any sense unless non-linear distortions are not considered. Even then, the Fathom will have a tough time matching output with a 2X12" ported sub from 15-30Hz.

Above 30Hz, it's possible, but if the subs were level matched in the same system, I doubt it would be easy to catch that one sub played deeper and louder."

Then, remember also that Ilkka's numbers are ground plane, not corner loaded in a room.

Now, Craig, OTOH, has the 113. I expect that sub to be a different story... Let's strap in and watch the show.

Bosso

The quote you refrerenced to above was refering to the 113 not the 112, the same sub that Craig has. Are you saying that it is possible for the 113 to play "deeper, tighter, and louder with any material i chose?" Doesnt that conflict with your earlier comments?
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post #128 of 6590
10/28/06 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHTFRED View Post

The quote you refrerenced to above was refering to the 113 not the 112, the same sub that Craig has. Are you saying that it is possible for the 113 to play "deeper, tighter, and louder with any material i chose?" Doesnt that conflict with your earlier comments?

I'm saying I expect the F113 to be a different story than the F112, and it will be interesting to see if real numbers confirm or deny what the reviewer said.

Moving from a 12 to a 13 and adding 1KW of available power shouldn't add all that much 10% limited output from 15-30Hz.

If JL had designed the sub without HP protection, it certainly would play deeper and tighter, but it's very tough for a sealed 1X13 to best a ported 2X12 at the ported sub's tune, considering THD as the limiting factor.

Craig,

A late season GP session would be just too cool.

If you do get a chance to measure the F113 outdoors, could you include a couple extra QSs to measure the ELF circuit?

Pics for size comparisons would also be great, if you get a chance and don't mind.

Thanks

Bosso
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post #129 of 6590
10/28/06 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post


Pics for size comparisons would also be great, if you get a chance and don't mind.

Thanks

Bosso


+1.
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post #130 of 6590
10/28/06 at 9:10am
Guys, Here are pics of the Fathom 113, Fathom 112, SVS PB12-Plus/2 and the VTF-3 HO with turbo installed.

Pardon the picture quality, as my photography skills pretty much are non-existent.

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post #131 of 6590
10/28/06 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Guys, Here are pics of the Fathom 113, Fathom 112, SVS PB12-Plus/2 and the VTF-3 HO with turbo installed.

Pardon the picture quality, as my photography skills pretty much are non-existent.

Hey,

Those Fathoms look really small! Can they really rock your house?
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post #132 of 6590
10/28/06 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Mayer View Post

Hey,

Those Fathoms look really small! Can they really rock your house?

I have the house to myself for the next 9 hours. WOTW is fired up, and so is the software. Look for some SPL charts later ....
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post #133 of 6590
10/28/06 at 9:46am
I don't know about you guys, but any of the subs stacked on the right would be an impediment to marital bliss in our home.
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post #134 of 6590
10/28/06 at 9:49am
Oddly enough none of Craig's pictures show up on my laptop. I'm beginning to wonder if somehow my wife has messed with my settings to dissallow any pictures of Craig's subs!

This sub doesn't appear to be available in Canada?
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post #135 of 6590
10/28/06 at 9:52am
You're right Pete. My wife is understanding, but not that much. She wasn't wild about my CS-Ultras. She likes the F113s that I bought and even thinks they are pretty. I got the gloss finish.
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post #136 of 6590
10/28/06 at 10:19am
Wusses.
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post #137 of 6590
10/28/06 at 10:25am
Happily married wuss with two new F113s
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post #138 of 6590
10/28/06 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

I don't know about you guys, but any of the subs stacked on the right would be an impediment to marital bliss in our home.

Exactly.. I can convince the Wife on a dual F113 purchase before she'll allow a PB-Ultra/2 in our living room..

Now Lets see if these F113's are worth the premium...

Craig, Thx 4 da pics BTW..
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post #139 of 6590
10/28/06 at 12:02pm
The F113 is a very good performer. I took some TrueRTA charts at about 3 meters from both it and the SVS PB12-Plus/2 with the WOTW Lightning scene.

The Fathom is subjectively more powerful, deeper, and cleaner that the SVS, in a box which is MUCH smaller. It also delivers excellent performance on a variety of material in our rather difficult room using only the built in ARO system.

While relatively expensive @ $3200, less the price one can negotiate, it does an admirable job in delivering both highly articulate, musical bass along with SOCK you in the gut, visceral, shake the room bass.

MY wife gives it REALLY high marks for its appearance, too.

To give you an idea HOW good it is, I did the graphs of the 113 first, then the Plus/2.

After graphing the Plus/2, I wanted the superior bass of the 113 enough to unplug the Plus/2 and put the 113 back. Lugging these guys around is no easy task.

One note, these graphs are with the latest TrueRTA software, and really should no be compared with the results of the older RTA tests.

Here is the Plus/2 on WOTW.



And the Fathom 113

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post #140 of 6590
10/28/06 at 12:17pm
Looking good. Is the yet-to-be-released G213 basically two F113s in the same enclosure? Is so, it would seem that two F113s would be the way to go (and allow more power to be drawn by the amplifiers via two dedicated AC circuits?).

Also, have you tried playing with the E.L.F. boost setting?
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post #141 of 6590
10/28/06 at 12:37pm
I think the advantage of the Gotham (if there is one) is it's beautiful, bigger and way more expensive. That appeals to a lot of people. I was told by reps from JL Audio that two F113 would be a better buy than one of the Gothams. Also with two you have the advantage of placement to help with room modes.
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post #142 of 6590
10/28/06 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Everyone knows I'm a fan of the sealed/EQ'd alignment, as well as the feature set of the JL subs.

At great risk that Ron Stimpson will search out this post a year and a half from now, call it 'recent' and use it to prove my incessant SVS fanboy status, I must say...

There's little chance that the Fathom "...played deeper, louder, and tighter than the SVS [SVS PB12-Plus/2] with any material I chose."

I'd be very surprised if this is true in any sense unless non-linear distortions are not considered. Even then, the Fathom will have a tough time matching output with a 2X12" ported sub from 15-30Hz.

Above 30Hz, it's possible, but if the subs were level matched in the same system, I doubt it would be easy to catch that one sub played deeper and louder.

I would like to see what happens to the Fathom at roll off. That will tell if it plays 'deeper' than the PB thingy.

'Tighter' is the easiest of the 3 claims to buy on face value, as the sealed sub should sound tighter than any resonant system.

I agree that comparative numbers are a must if I'm to eat my words here or any of the Fathom hype is to be accepted and the sub is to be judged 'deeper, louder, tighter' than the SVS, which has been thoroughly tested with the graphs and numbers posted by more than just Sir Edward

Bosso


Looks like the 113 is a top performer
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post #143 of 6590
10/28/06 at 1:11pm
Craig... glad you're having fun! I'm curious to hear your impressions of the f112 (it's a bit easier to move around).... then set up the twin f113's and go to town!

Pradeep, the Gotham is similar in performance to what you could expect from a pair of f113's stacked one on top of the other. The Gotham's drivers are a bit different (as is the net box volume per driver) and there is a little bit less power (3800W vs 5000 on the twin f113's), but it all works out about the same in terms of response and SPL.

Feature-wise, the Gotham and the Fathoms are identical. So, in essence Nethomas is correct that the premium for the Gotham is mostly for its cosmetic effect. Given the choice, I would go with multiple Fathoms and distribute them to create a large zone of smooth bass response. We used six f112's at CEDIA this year all along the front wall of the room spread out laterally with a couple displaced vertically and the bass was the best bass we've had yet. For real-world theaters, a pair of smartly placed f113's is a pretty outstanding package.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.
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post #144 of 6590
10/28/06 at 1:16pm
Manville .... I just checked my calibration here, and the software showed 93.88 dB on a 94 dB calibrator ... so that part is GOOD.

The 112 is being hooked up now. More WOTW coming up ...
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post #145 of 6590
10/28/06 at 1:39pm
The F112 is in the system, calibrated, and here is the Lightning scene on WOTW. For a small sub, the 112 is AMAZING.

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post #146 of 6590
10/28/06 at 2:26pm
Here are some in-room 2 meter measurements for the Fathom 112:

16 Hz



20 Hz



25 Hz (edit: while running charts @ a CPU setting of 5, the TrueRTA shut down the process, and requested the speed be lowered. This is the graph as done at setting#3)



32 Hz

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post #147 of 6590
10/28/06 at 2:57pm
Which number should we look, 'dB SPL pk" or 'dB SPL avg'? There seems to be quite a difference at 25 Hz. What does it mean?
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post #148 of 6590
10/28/06 at 3:01pm
Richard, Look at the dB SPL Average. I had also posted a graph done at a higher CPU speed setting .. and TrueRTA shut down that "run". I just changed it to the CPU set at 3, the same as all the other graphs.
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post #149 of 6590
10/28/06 at 3:27pm
Here is the PB12-Plus/2 in the one port blocked, two ports open, 20 Hz setting.

20 Hz sine wave:

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post #150 of 6590
10/28/06 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

This sub doesn't appear to be available in Canada?

Canadian distribution is just beginning. Our Canadian distributor is GemSen Distribution in Concord, ON. Please feel free to contact them 905-660-3110 or sales@gemsen.com
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