JL Audio Fathom 13" Sub - Page 8

This is not the DIY section ... there are people who prefer to buy a product which works right now, and don't want to start tearing holes in walls for an IB project.

Others DO want to do that, and that is wonderful. That is why we have choices.

One area the DIYer ignores is re-sale. Typically, I get 80% of the original price I paid after using a subwoofer for a year. Buy a $2500 list sub for $2000, and a year later it still brings $1600. Try that with the IB project when you move in 2 years (In the USA today, the average family changes homes every 5 years).

I just don't "get" why some DIYERs behave like Amway salesman about the concept that building your own is the ONLY choice.

I dont own, I rent.. IB isnt a choice for me...

I have tried doing other home sub projects but they didnt come out that well... I'd rather buy a finished product in which a mulitibillion dollar company spent thousands of dollars in R&D for a price of 3k or less..

Im happy with that..

Go for it PoorManQ45!! I don't have the time or desire to go IB. My heart probably couldn't stand better sound than I am currently getting with the Fathoms. I am content. I bought my Fathoms before Craig started his testing so my joy is based on my own listening at the store and now at home the last 2+ weeks. These subs are incredible and won't be replaced in my system for a long time. I predict that we will be seeing great reviews for these subs over the next several months. I just happen to be lucky enough to get a couple of the first if not THE first in Missouri.

Hey ... you were a large part of the reason I bought a pair for myself ... your description was pretty compelling ...

Or for $3000 you get a very nice box that has from my experience, a very hi WAF (PRICELESS), and gets the job done in spades!

What is not apparent from the charts and very difficult to describe in words is how really good this thing sounds! The f113 adds, or more correctly reveals the detail in low frequency sound. This thing adds a sweetness like a well designed tweeter or a really good midrange. Detail and resolution have been added to the mix; it's not just pant leg flapping bass.

"If there are no complaints, I would like to proceed with GP testing in this room, and subtracting 1 dB from the results, to give us a solid feel for the measured performance.

Is everyone in agreement here ?"
Sound OK to me
This should be very fun indeed .

You guys better get cracking and buy a LOT of Fathoms so we can be a "multibillion" dollar company.

Manville ... @ $3000 a pop, we only need 333,334 Fathom 113's for that first billion ...

Kinda gives you a feel for how much Bill Gates is REALLY worth, doesn't it ?

Ok ... Here is what will happen .. I will be able to squeeze on outdoor GP measurement set on the PB10 tonight ... and the will do the indoor this weekend. This will give us a real standard from which to work.

Then we will catalogue the:

PB12-Plus/2, PB12-Ultra, VTF-3 HO with and without Turbo, DD-18, Fathom 112, Fathom 113...

Can you say Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

Try not to scare the kids who are out trick or treating with all the LFE!!

Hey Guys... you are the ones that are to blame for me buying an f113 yesterday to replace my HGS 15. Craig, you were correct about your street pricing of this fantastic subwoofer & that was out the door. I live in the metro Detroit area where there wasn't an approved vendor within a 100 miles until last week. Sound Advantage in downtown Rochester was the first one approved and the owner Len was great to deal with. I watched WOTW, U571(HDDVD) & LOTR_ROTK after setup yesterday. All I say is that I never heard such quality, clean acccurate sound from a sub before in my life. There were times of 105 to 107 db where my chair felt like it was vibrating across the room.

As a side note, my better half was with me when I bought this sub & after watching these movies she couldn't believe the difference in the quality of sound. As to the size, it is slighty smaller than the HGS15, but you surely wouldn't believe it based upon tha accurate quality sound that came out of it.

As to treating the room, I believe that I would like to live long enough to enjoy this sub. The family room is setup for HT, but it is still the family room. It is 2600 cube plus an attached area leading into a bath & office( doors closed ), at the other end there is a stairway leading to the kitchen area.

I thought I would post here before the thread heads south. Which is the reason I don't post hardly at all. At this point in my life I don't need to deal with that type of xxxx. I have been lurking on this forum & AV123 for years. I still have not joined Av123 yet.

Thanks again guys, for leading me to a quality purchase.

Dennis

Very well stated Craig. DIY is great for a few but does not represent the average subwoofing consumer marketplace at all. In my experience if I had to choose a single component that gets more attention from the significant other it would be display first and subwoofer coming in a close second. The problem with subs is most guys bring them into the equation without even mentioning it to the spouse. They take one look at this huge square box and freak out.

There is a lot to be said about the design and performance goals of the Fathom's. They are not for everyone at this price point but neither is the Velo DD15 or DD18. It would be interesting to see how they stack up and also how the new HSU HO stacks up against the Fathoms since some of your intial comments on the HO were very positive also.

Thanks for the hard work Craig

JD

Wow! Amazing that the little (relative) JL can put those numbers out and stay under 10% distortion the whole way! I'm curious as to how it manages this as a sealed 13" driver over the dual 12" ported Plus/2. Did you pop the grill off with all the excursion that driver must be doing?

Still, it is definetly in the "Limited" category along with the Digital Drives at $3000+.

For someone looking for the ultimate performance/dollar ratio (size not being a factor), I think dual PB12-Plus/2's along with an SMS-1 (about the same cost as a single f113) would perform better and be much more adaptable to poor rooms. I'd like to see a comparison based on cost rather than single sub vs single sub. This would pit dual Plus/2's equalized with the 8-Band pEQ SMS-1 vs a single f113 with a single band pEQ.
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Craig - Were you running the Plus/2 with a port plugged? I found with my old dual SVS subs that the port-plugging deal dropped a serious amount of headroom while adding only a little bit more extension. The Plus/2 isn't really a 15Hz shake your soul type sub - but seemed to rock the house in the 20Hz range when I listened to it. I'd like to see what you measure with the Plus/2 in it's native tune.

Way to go Dennis!! My wife also said she could tell the difference when I got the Fathoms going while watching WOTW. I hope this thread dosen't go south. There is a lot of good information here. I don't think anyone is trashing any subs. All tested a good subs. Those of us with Fathoms are excited because we just bought them. I don't think that makes us "fan boys", just shows our enthusiasim. I have owned both HSU and SVS and can say that I have enjoyed them all.

Nethomas, I agree, I hope it doesn't go that way either. I usually follow a thread until it does. I would have purchased this sub two weeks ago if there was a place to do so. I think JLAudio should have a list of all approved vendors along with the zip code page they currently use.

FanBoys, never have been, never will be. I buy a quality product at a reasonable price period.

Dennis

I'm just posting in response to the tests/comparison made by Craig between the PB12-Plus/2 and JL f113. I consider the Plus/2 my reference for price/performance in the ~$1000 price range. Naturally I kinda scratch my noggin when I see it compared to a unit costing almost three times as much. Most people are limited by price (some by size due to significant others). Considering this, I'd have to question what spending equal amounts of cash between the two company's under comparison would fetch you.

I've returned/sold all my SVS subs, and I'm looking at other companies right now, so I'm not trying to tout what I own either.

Anyhoo, I appreciate all the work that Craig does. Just offering up my own personal opinion and requests.

Nick,

I think Craig addresses your question in this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8766169

MF

All these posts about what you can get for the price of one F113 are funny to me because
it sounds like no matter what you spend your 3200.00 on you're still not going to get
the "tightness" of the Fathom, ridiculous multi way/size/sub configurations not withstanding.

Many car audio guys who spend ALOT more on their bass setups tend to look down on
HT subs because of the general lack of tight bass in most products, and while I detest
all forms of snobbery throughout the AV world, I tend to see their point.

I've always hoped for more cross over products between the car audio and home
audio companies, I believe that both worlds can stand to learn alot from one
another.

When you factor in the small size and good looks of the Fathom, and its build quality,
I'm not sure that 3200.00 is that far from the internet brands in terms of performance/dollar ratios. Additionally, from what I've read here, it doesn't seem as if
anyone is even paying msrp.

What is completely absurd are the DIY comparisons. Apples and Oranges, plain and simple, and truthfully, almost every DIY IB system I've seen looks like utter crap so forgive us
non DIY'ers for having some form of concern regarding aesthetics.

I'm almost ready to bite the bullet on this thing sight unseen pending Craig's
final conclusions.

15hz??? Loud, tight, clean, wow!!!!!

JL Car Audio has been around for a long time.. It is because of the Car Audios success that JL Had the funds to R&D a sub for 2-3 years more after its announcement.. JL is Mr. Money bags...

This sounds like a good compromise to me. Since people around here are into coining phrases, maybe you can call your indoor test pseudo-GP

Not sure why these threads always end up in a "SVS vs. XXX" or "DIY or IB versus XXX". At the end of the day, I think the fact that someone is actually comparing the SVS to a sub costing 3 times it's price is quite the compliment to SVS and the value you are getting with what that brand is delivering.

Further, the comparative measurements help, to some extent, more people. I.e., there are more people who can "afford" or "are willing to spend" the kind of dollars that an SVS or other similar product costs, versus the dollars the Fathom or even say a Velo DD would cost. This allows owners of these products to determine "yes, I'll spend the extra $X,XXX for that" or, probably in most cases, "wow, that makes the value of the sub I've got even more incredible than I originally thought!".

The threads only derail when owners of either subs decide they need to continuously "defend" their purchase to the death, and start slinging mud at each other.

I'll probably be looking to upgrade my sub over the next 6 months or so. I'm in the camp of "I don't really think I could justify spending $3,000 on a sub", and am leaning towards an SVS or other sub in the $1,000 - $1,500 range given my listening habits (or more accurately, the amount of time I have to even spend with the system which is maybe 2 hours a week these days!). The only thing stopping me right now is the size of the SVS as it's going in my family room, at least for the next few years until I finish the basement. But it seems finding a small attractive sub that produces respectable SPL with low distortion and actually sounds good while doing it is difficult.

Hence why I'm still interested in how they achieved such high SPL with low distortion in such a relatively small box! Same reason I'm keenly awaiting more reviews of the SVS SB12. So hopefully this thread will remain civil (and thus far, impressively, it has!).

Craig (and/or other Fathom owners),

Did you get the Gloss or Satin black? I wonder which has the better WAF? Seeing how there is only a $100 difference, both look like good options.

MF

I think that's well spoken PBC. And, if you go with SVS you won't be disappointed. Heck I'll even sell you my pair of CS-Ultras(but they aint small). Great subs. I have had some pretty expensive hobbys in the past, i.e. big boats, planes to name a couple. I have finally grown up and am comfortable to be at home with my lovely wife. My HT is really the only thing I spend any money on. I tell my children that if they are waiting to get rich from me when I die, they had best get a job!! I have never seen a hearse with a U-HAUL behind it, so I am going to enjoy myself while I can.

Well, harmonic distortion in both tests Craig ran is limited to 10%. With an external SMS-1, you can knock down any peaks (even better with an 8-Band pEQ). I've yet to see any numbers indicating how well the f113 handles transients. I'd love to see some facts that back up your statement that nothing less than $3200 will be as "tight" as the JL audio f113. Craig also hasn't mentioned whether or not the above measurements of the Plus/2 were with a plugged port to pick up some extension at the cost of headroom in the rest of the range. The Plus/2 isn't a depth-trawler, it's geared for good output in the 20Hz range from what I've heard in person and roughly tested with some sine waves and a ratshack meter.

It's usually blanket statements which spur the fanboys into action. I like to see measurements and un-biased reviews like Craig/Ikka offer.

The fact that an F113 outclasses a Plus/2 is not surprising, at least $$$ wise. What will be interesting is seeing how it compares to the DD-18.

And seeing how the new Ultra is also going to be using a ~13" driver...wonder if they'll stay with the current BASH amps?

Musicfirst, I have the gloss.

Nicholas,

I was theorizing based on Craig's subjective observations and my experience with JL W7 drivers, I apologize if that wasn't clear.

"Tightness" however is very subjective and as far as I know there are no reliable tests to measure such a characterisitic with any reasonable degree of accuracy, so there can't be any indisputable facts to really prove nor disprove my theory.

At this point I just find it remarkable that everyone who owns this beast is so content
with it.

Cool. Did you have a chance to visually compare it to the satin, and preferred the gloss? My big thing with gloss, is it shows dust and smudges so easily. But if it's "stunning" in comparison to the satin, I may just deal with dust/smudge issue.

Thanks,
MF

I did not compare to the satin. I knew I wanted the gloss. I just bought a 5 speaker system from Jim Salk at Salk Sound and they have a hand rubbed laquor finish and this blends well. The Salks are Rosewood by the way, but very shiny.