JL Audio Fathom 13" Sub - Page 106

....also be sure to update the firmware on the SMS-1 before testing...to satisfy our collective curiosity.

This is going to take a few hours so the "collective curiosity" will have to wait until Sunday. JL may be conducting their own test with the Pulse DVD so this will be explained/resolved one way or the other.

BTW, note to Velodyne and others re firmware updates. PLEASE! go to a USB interface format. I had to scrounge around for an old laptop with a 9 pin serial port in order to do the SMS-1 update. I actually want to try the old version first and bypass any EQ. Then upgrade and do the same. I'm sure the upgrade will blast all of my existing EQ presets.

Of course, I will also bypass the SMS-1 altogether as the first test.

Rob, there are RS-232 to USB cables it's what I used.
though I agree that manufacturers should get into the 90's and use USB's!!

Or you could have bought a USB/serial adaptor like most of us and saved yourself the scrounge.

Having fried (my term) the PROM of a Parasound C2 when "upgrading" with said USB/Serial adaptor, it's once burned, twice shy around here.

Hey I missed this first time around. Now that would be neat if we get Manville's take on this track. Just don't tell me the FL113 breezes through it. It would be nice to know where the clipping point is and under what conditions.

It may take a while for us to get that test done... CES is in a couple of weeks and we're all pretty slammed.

Manville--where will I find you guys at CES?

Well, with my move from Philly to Raleigh i seem to have lost my set up mic. Have the cable, but no mic. Anyone know how to order a replacement? can't find part number either.

North Hall #3718 (Mobile Audio Area)

For us, CES is primarily a mobile audio event (CEDIA being our primary home event). We will have an exploded Gotham on display and our Home Division personnel will be there to answer any questions, but there is no other home products display or demo.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thanks Manville--I'll see you next year at CEDIA then...

Manville,

When I run ARO I had to turn the gain up to 3 O'clock. Should I leave it there or dial it back to zero before running Audyssey from my Onkyo receiver? I have the F112.

My name isn't Manville but... I'd run the ARO with the sub at whatever level needed for calibration, then listen to the system and adjust the level for the best response. Then try the Audyssey AFTER I had the system sounding as best as I could get it on my own.

glennQ

The level used for A.R.O. calibration has nothing to do with the actual level at which sub will be calibrated to the rest of the system for operation. A.R.O. is a closed-loop setup and has no knowledge of or interest in the pre-pro's signal. It is not uncommon to have to dial the sub's gain pretty high to calibrate A.R.O. This is to get the level of the test signal well above the room's noise floor (to ensure an accurate measurement). In 99% of the cases, you will need to turn the sub's level back down to achieve a proper integration with the rest of your system.

The more low frequency noise is in a room, the higher you have to set the level on the Fathom to calibrate... the bigger the room, the higher you have to set it as well... Many people fail to *ahem* read the manual thoroughly and attempt calibration with their HVAC system running and then find that they can't get enough level for calibration, too.

If you're using your receiver's or your pre-pro's subwoofer level setting features, you can set the Fathom's Level Mode on "reference" immediately after ARO calibration (this mode defeats the level knob), and use your receiver/pre-pro to set levels correctly to integrate with your entire speaker system.

So in a nutshell:

Run ARO FIRST (and don't worry about the position of the level knob needed to do it)
Switch to REFERENCE Level mode (if you don't have enough level or prefer to have the knob work, switch to Variable)
Adjust levels with your pre-pro or receiver
Perform other calibration settings.

Hope that answers your questions.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Thank you both. Will try to calibrate again for the fourth time. Hope I get right this time.

Anyone here play Quake (video game) when it came out 10 years ago or so? Well my favourite power-up was always Quad-power.

Now I've got Quad-power coming to my home by way of a second pair of F113s!!!!! Whoo-hoooo, Santa Claus is bringing on some serious bass!

Yes, played Quake and was addicted to the game like many other folks. If I recall, I sucked at Quake as I did in most video games and was always looking for cheat codes.

Bogg: You have 4, I repeat, 4 F-113's in your room?? Could you post photos of your room? Would truly enjoy seeing them. Congratulations.

Charles

Ex-Quake 3 addict here. Cheat codes are for n00bs!!!!

All I can say is:
For Those About To Rock, We Salute You!

lol.

Charles,
I'll gladly post pictures when the room is done - in a month or so. It's a Rives level 3 design, optimized for 2-channel with a 6.x surround setup. It's a tightly sealed room so 2 F113s would probably have been more than enough but opportunity happened to be knocking. I was a bit hasty buying my first pair of the F113s a year ago because I didn't start room construction until much later than originally planned (new baby), but things are now on track. Prices have come down significantly and there's lots of new competition, although nothing small and attractive and powerful!

I had considered the Castle or the Conquest...love the big, long-throw 18inchers! But they were too damn ugly and home-made looking. My second pair are in the satin finish, but they'll be positioned away from the first gloss pair anyway. Can't wait to hear them all!

For those of you having problems finding a local dealer, audiogon has f113 and f112 on their site. The prices are quite attractive IF the auction does not drive them up in the next day or so.

I had some time today so I ran the F113’s minus the SMS-1 with the Pulse demo. The SSP was set to the same gain (-20) as was used during the GTG. I then upgraded the SMS-1 to Ver 2.1.3. The results point to the old ver SMS-1 being the problem.

This is what I did:

Played Pulse demo with old ver SMS-1
Result: Distortion (server room scene with and without EQ applied)

Removed SMS-1 from the LFE chain.
Result: Pulse played without distortion

Upgraded SMS-1 to 2.1.3 played Pulse demo
Result: played without distortion (with and without EQ applied)

Here are FR graphs of the upgraded SMS-1. I am getting a lot of room boost down low. I tried to remove boosts and cuts but was forced to leave big cuts @ 20-30 Hz plus the 12db boosts in at 44 & 80Hz. I will be trying different locations for the Fathoms during the next week and hope to resolve the peaks/nulls via placement.

NO EQ


EQ applied


Conclusion: It appears that the old version of SMS-1 software was the primary cause of the distortion we heard at the GTG. If I push the volume higher I start to get some distortion but not a severe as before the SMS-1 upgrade.

Very interesting. I was suspecting that all along.

RMK,
Glad to hear you found the problem, and even more glad to hear it wasn't our fault!

Suggestion: Try the "ELF trim" on the Fathoms to tame that very low frequency bloat (instead of the bottom two bands of the SMS-1). It might work better.

Me too Mike.

John, which version of the software did you have when we were over? Guess we'll have to repeat it?!

RMK,

how high could you go before the onset of audible distortion in the Pulse scene?

Yes, you're off the hook (for now).

I'll try the Fathoms ELF trim but since I use the ref setting I was trying to do it via the SMS-1.

The gain setting on my SSP wouldn't really be relevant but it was about -15 when it started to lose it. I didn't take any SPL readings, too much going on and not enough hands.

Without knowing more about Rob's distance to the subs, SPLs at the mic, room size, input signal etc its difficult to draw any comparisons or conclusions based on RMKs data with the test we ran in November. Using v2.12 with SMS gain set to -5 would not cause distortion on its own. Running a higher processor signal with reference at 85 db at the sweet spot in an acoustically treated room which needs more sub gain would be the primary cause of audible distortion in demanding tracks. That high signal level places much more stress on the single subs. One thing was clear, of all the subs we tested at a similar high signal input several did not perform well at all with the Ultra13 being the worst offender with very annoying chuffing. The FL113 relatively speaking was a good overall performer.

I'm currently running v2.13 and cannot tell an audible difference at normal levels (ie 75db} at the sweet spot, though the display shows slightly less rolloff below 20hz.

I thought the gain settings on the ssp should be relevant. If you calibrate 0 as reference level then -15 would be 115-15=100db at the microphone position you used to calibrate.

Does it play much louder without distortion than before? Do you know how much more you can turn up the ssp before distortion from pre and post sms firmware upgrade?