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JL Audio Fathom 13" Sub - Page 154

post #4591 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Sharp1080 - We almost have the same size room. I was wondering what was the biggest improvement for you when adding the second F113?

Tony,

Biggest improvement was evening out the response in the room, It took what was good already and just took the room to the next level in regards to being able to reproduce bass that I never heard before especially when I owned a REL Stentor III.That was my reference before the JL's! One of the first recordings I played was the organ recording Mussorgsky pictures at an exibition performed by Jean Guillou.That has been one of my tests for bass in music, Non synthesized.
post #4592 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I'm waiting

How do you like yours so far?

I'm loving it. Believe me, I'd take it to bed if I could.
Best purchase I've made in a long time.
post #4593 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose View Post

I'm loving it. Believe me, I'd take it to bed if I could.
Best purchase I've made in a long time.

Can we quote you in an ad? No photo required.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.
post #4594 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

Can we quote you in an ad? No photo required.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Hey! I showed him the way of JL.. what about me? j/k!
post #4595 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

Tony,

Biggest improvement was evening out the response in the room, It took what was good already and just took the room to the next level in regards to being able to reproduce bass that I never heard before especially when I owned a REL Stentor III.That was my reference before the JL's! One of the first recordings I played was the organ recording Mussorgsky pictures at an exibition performed by Jean Guillou.That has been one of my tests for bass in music, Non synthesized.

I am wondering if there would be any improvement adding a THIRD f113 in my 4500cft room...

I agree with your statement in regard to Rel (which I still have). While the Rel in my system had a wonderful pitch definition, I never thought that it could have been bettered and I was wrong.
post #4596 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

I am wondering if there would be any improvement adding a THIRD f113 in my 4500cft room...

I agree with your statement in regard to Rel (which I still have). While the Rel in my system had a wonderful pitch definition, I never thought that it could have been bettered and I was wrong.

Not as big an improvement as going from one to two, but still an improvement. Up to four units you get pretty discernible improvements... Beyond four, it's just for fun and headroom. :-)
post #4597 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

Can we quote you in an ad? No photo required.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Sure, as long as Tony and I aren't in the same bed.
I can even send a photo......

On a serious note Mr Smith, if I were to add another sub, I would have to put both subs between my main speakers and there would only be about 3ft of space between them. Is that ok?

Jose.
post #4598 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

Not as big an improvement as going from one to two, but still an improvement. Up to four units you get pretty discernible improvements... Beyond four, it's just for fun and headroom. :-)

Talking to my dealer this week about possibly adding two more subs which will allow me to stack my F113's. Not a true Gotham but close!
post #4599 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose View Post

Sure, as long as Tony and I aren't in the same bed.
I can even send a photo......

On a serious note Mr Smith, if I were to add another sub, I would have to put both subs between my main speakers and there would only be about 3ft of space between them. Is that ok?

Jose.

Sure, that's no problem... we did a setup that pretty much went across the whole front of the room, five across with two more elevated above the bottom row. It was silly, but in a spectacularly good way.

And, by all means send pictures!

Best regards, and thank you for choosing JL Audio products.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.
post #4600 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

Not as big an improvement as going from one to two, but still an improvement. Up to four units you get pretty discernible improvements... Beyond four, it's just for fun and headroom. :-)

Most audio room calibrators that I have talked to say that minimum of two subs is needed.
post #4601 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

Sure, that's no problem... we did a setup that pretty much went across the whole front of the room, five across with two more elevated above the bottom row. It was silly, but in a spectacularly good way.

And, by all means send pictures!

Best regards, and thank you for choosing JL Audio products.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Here are some pics. Excuse the lousy camera.
Just don't tell the guys at the F112 thread that I'm hangin' out here.
LL
LL
post #4602 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose View Post

Here are some pics. Excuse the lousy camera.
Just don't tell the guys at the F112 thread that I'm hangin' out here.

Not to worry I have two F112's also the F113 thread seems to be more active at times.
post #4603 of 6594
If you own a JL product, your one of the family, nothin to worry about... !!!!!
post #4604 of 6594
I just have to say the pair of fathoms 112 are one of the best investment i' ve done for my HT room. the guys at JL audio hit a winner with these beauties.
post #4605 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose View Post

Just don't tell the guys at the F112 thread that I'm hangin' out here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I just have to say the pair of fathoms 112 are one of the best investment i' ve done for my HT room. the guys at JL audio hit a winner with these beauties.

HEY! WHY ARE YOU GUYS HANGIN" OUT HERE??? WE HAVE OUR OWN THREAD FOR F112!



Just kidding, I hang out here sometimes too.

Craig
post #4606 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

HEY! WHY ARE YOU GUYS HANGIN" OUT HERE??? WE HAVE OUR OWN THREAD FOR F112!



Just kidding, I hang out here sometimes too.

Craig

Wow, we should form a club for dual f112 owners... that's what I'm running, too. We need a clever name.

Thanks for the pix, Jose... great setup. I bet it sounds great.
post #4607 of 6594
Does anyone have any high-quality pics of the Satin Black and the High-Gloss Black finishes?
post #4608 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Does anyone have any high-quality pics of the Satin Black and the High-Gloss Black finishes?

http://home.jlaudio.com/products_sub...php?page_id=39
post #4609 of 6594
Thanks.

How long is the cable for the calibration mic?
post #4610 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Thanks.

How long is the cable for the calibration mic?

It's 20 ft. long. (6 meters)
post #4611 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose View Post

Here are some pics. Excuse the lousy camera.
Just don't tell the guys at the F112 thread that I'm hangin' out here.

Nice pics Jose.. What's that stand under the sub?
post #4612 of 6594
Does the room calibration on the f113 fix out any room nulls or uneven response from the room? I heard that small rooms are bad for bass response and since I have a small room, I would like to know how the room calibration helps or deals with the room response.
post #4613 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Nice pics Jose.. What's that stand under the sub?

Thanks Tony. They're the SP-003 by Audio Points. Have them on top of a granite slab. Work great. Been using them for years under my speakers too. What can I say, I'm a tweaker..

Here's a link:
http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com...Platforms.HTML
post #4614 of 6594
I'm sure this has been asked but when I did a search I did not find an answer so sorry if it has been answered.

How similar is the 13w7 compared to the fathom?
I guess what I'm comparing is...
-1 jl 13w7
-Rockford Fosgate t1001.bd amplifer wired in series (about 800 watts @ 3 ohms)
-1.5 cu. ft. sealed box. 1.5" MDF front baffle, 3/4" MDF top/bottom/sides, 1" polycarb back

Yes there is still more that would be needed to make even a decent answer but I'm hoping someone has some idea on how similar these are.
post #4615 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

Does the room calibration on the f113 fix out any room nulls or uneven response from the room? I heard that small rooms are bad for bass response and since I have a small room, I would like to know how the room calibration helps or deals with the room response.

The ARO in the Fathom line is a single band, single point EQ solution with no time correction. It measures the response at one point in the room and then selects the largest peak in that response measurement and applies a "variable" filter to it. The variable part is that it can vary the amount of the reduction *and* it can vary the bandwidth over which the reduction is applied. IOW, if you have a broad peak over a large frequency band at your primary listening position, and this is your primary peak, it will apply a broad filter inversely correcting that peak. However, it can only do this for *one* peak at one listening position. If you have multiple peaks at multiple frequencies, it will select the "largest" and apply the filter to that one.

Reducing the level of the largest, broadest peak will also reduce the level of "ringing" or "overhang" of that peak. However, ARO has no "time-based" correction built into it, and it does nothing to improve the ringing of other frequencies.

In many rooms, EQ'ing the single biggest peak is a significant improvement in the sound. It will remove much of the boominess and the impression of "one-note" bass, where all the bass notes sound the same. However, it is not as good as EQ'ing multiple peaks, at multiple listening positions, and adding time-based correction at multiple frequencies. For this kind of correction one needs a multi-point EQ with FIR filters, such as Audyssey MultEQ.
post #4616 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

The ARO in the Fathom line is a single band, single point EQ solution with no time correction. It measures the response at one point in the room and then selects the largest peak in that response measurement and applies a "variable" filter to it. The variable part is that it can vary the amount of the reduction *and* it can vary the bandwidth over which the reduction is applied. IOW, if you have a broad peak over a large frequency band at your primary listening position, and this is your primary peak, it will apply a broad filter inversely correcting that peak. However, it can only do this for *one* peak at one listening position. If you have multiple peaks at multiple frequencies, it will select the "largest" and apply the filter to that one.

Reducing the level of the largest, broadest peak will also reduce the level of "ringing" or "overhang" of that peak. However, ARO has no "time-based" correction built into it, and it does nothing to improve the ringing of other frequencies.

In many rooms, EQ'ing the single biggest peak is a significant improvement in the sound. It will remove much of the boominess and the impression of "one-note" bass, where all the bass notes sound the same. However, it is not as good as EQ'ing multiple peaks, at multiple listening positions, and adding time-based correction at multiple frequencies. For this kind of correction one needs a multi-point EQ with FIR filters, such as Audyssey MultEQ.

Thank you.

However, some of your explaination wizzed over my head. What is time-based correction?

By the way, the PB13-Ultra doesn't come with any built-in EQ'ing like the f113, correct?
post #4617 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by swargolet View Post

I'm sure this has been asked but when I did a search I did not find an answer so sorry if it has been answered.

How similar is the 13w7 compared to the fathom?
I guess what I'm comparing is...
-1 jl 13w7
-Rockford Fosgate t1001.bd amplifer wired in series (about 800 watts @ 3 ohms)
-1.5 cu. ft. sealed box. 1.5" MDF front baffle, 3/4" MDF top/bottom/sides, 1" polycarb back

Yes there is still more that would be needed to make even a decent answer but I'm hoping someone has some idea on how similar these are.

The Fathom's 13.5-inch driver has a larger, more powerful motor than the car audio 13W7 driver. It's better optimized for a smaller enclosure than the car version.

The f113 also has 2500W of RMS power, not 800 and then there is the extensive processing package and the house curve and limiting circuitry, and the balanced inputs, the optically isolated unbalanced inputs, the microphone, the grille, the FCC and UL/CSA approval, the cabinet fit and finish, etc. etc. Oh, I almost forgot the gloves.
post #4618 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

What is time-based correction?

There are two effects of resonances in a room. The first is frequency imbalance. A resonance that causes a "peak" causes certain frequencies to be louder than others. The reflected sound is added to the original sound and the combined sound is louder than it should be. A resonance that causes a "null" causes some frequencies to be quieter than other frequencies. When the reflected sound is combined out of phase with the original sound, it cancels the wave and decreases the level. A standard EQ like the ARO reduces the level of the errant "peak" frequency, which also reduces the level of the resonance. The final "combined" sound is in the proper balance with the rest of the range. (A "null" cannot be EQ'd because adding more energy to the original sound just adds more cancellation.)

The second effect of a resonance happens in the "time" domain. The resonance can cause the frequency to decay slower than it should. IOW, it stays in the room too long. This is referred to as "ringing". This will cause the bass to sound "slow" and sloppy. Time-based EQ can reduce the ringing by using Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters, sort of like the same way that noise-canceling headphones work. Audyssey uses FIR filters to correct in the time domain as well as in the frequency domain:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post

By the way, the PB13-Ultra doesn't come with any built-in EQ'ing like the f113, correct?

The SVS PB13-Ultra has a single band parametric EQ, similar to the ARO EQ. However, it does not have the measurement capability and auto-EQ that ARO has. Therefore, you would need to measure and set the SVS EQ manually. If you have no measurement capability, it's almost useless.

Craig
post #4619 of 6594
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

There are two effects of resonances in a room. The first is frequency imbalance. A resonance that causes a "peak" causes certain frequencies to be louder than others. The reflected sound is added to the original sound and the combined sound is louder than it should be. A resonance that causes a "null" causes some frequencies to be quieter than other frequencies. When the reflected sound is combined out of phase with the original sound, it cancels the wave and decreases the level. A standard EQ like the ARO reduces the level of the errant "peak" frequency, which also reduces the level of the resonance. The final "combined" sound is in the proper balance with the rest of the range. (A "null" cannot be EQ'd because adding more energy to the original sound just adds more cancellation.)

The second effect of a resonance happens in the "time" domain. The resonance can cause the frequency to decay slower than it should. IOW, it stays in the room too long. This is referred to as "ringing". This will cause the bass to sound "slow" and sloppy. Time-based EQ can reduce the ringing by using Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters, sort of like the same way that noise-canceling headphones work. Audyssey uses FIR filters to correct in the time domain as well as in the frequency domain:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793007


The SVS PB13-Ultra has a single band parametric EQ, similar to the ARO EQ. However, it does not have the measurement capability and auto-EQ that ARO has. Therefore, you would need to measure and set the SVS EQ manually. If you have no measurement capability, it's almost useless.

Craig

Thanks again!

I think I'm finally starting to get it.

By the way, how effective is the ARO at ironing out the largest peak? Can you tell a difference in sound quality before and after you perform the ARO?
post #4620 of 6594
One more thing! When you say the "largest peak," do you mean the ARO does a frequency wave from say 80Hz down to 20Hz and then decides where the largest peak is?
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