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JL Audio Fathom 13" Sub - Page 216

post #6451 of 6767
Is a pair of fathom 113 enough for a 5000cu ft closed room? I really want the bass to be linear at 100db reference if possible. Serious body shaking bass.
post #6452 of 6767
I don't know if a Fathom qualifies as something that can produce really body shaking bass, but I have 2 in a 6000^3 ft OPEN room and it can really rumble and you can definintely feel it. I can only imagine that a 5000^3 ft closed room would be better.
post #6453 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Oh, and I decided to place the F 113 on my bay window which is a concrete structure and has rock wool inside the wooden top. The Hsu is just out of sight in the photo, sitting just behind my Eames chair...

Your window must vibrate, how did you elevate the sub, you must work out smile.gif
post #6454 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Your window must vibrate, how did you elevate the sub, you must work out smile.gif
Actually, not much... it's a very well reinforced doubled glazed structure... I was surprised about that...
The sub is already elevated..
Cheers
post #6455 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashalc View Post

Let´s see if you guys can give me some Help. Today I have two SB-12 nsd, and i am not pleased with the total bass output. actually they do not produce the boom effect for the movies (which are 95% of my use). I know that a ported subwoofer maybe woud fit better my needs, but due to the wife factor they are not an option. My set is a 7.2 with all kef reference speakers (with integra as a processor and mcintosh as amplifier). My budget is around $ 4.000 I have two options:
1 - Remain with one SB-12 and buy one JL Fathom 113.
2 - Change both SB-12 nsd for two SB-13 Ultra.
I do not have space for ported sub and do not want other brands. So if this were your only choices which one would you choose?

Shouldn't the SB13 be identical to the JL in performance? It has a lot of amp power and gets down to 20hz. And is much, much cheaper. I would get the 2 SB13's.

I originally wanted a JL, but the price is just too much. Did some more research on subs and decided the SB13 is the next best sealed sub besides the JL.
post #6456 of 6767
In all fairness, no one pays retail for a fathom. I paid almost half that price for each of mine. I think most retail stores are willing to work with you on the price. That being said, an SB13 is pretty similar in performance when you're looking for that BOOM. For $4000 you could take the next step and consider JTR, Seaton or Funk Audio.
post #6457 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Shouldn't the SB13 be identical to the JL in performance? It has a lot of amp power and gets down to 20hz. And is much, much cheaper. I would get the 2 SB13's.
I originally wanted a JL, but the price is just too much. Did some more research on subs and decided the SB13 is the next best sealed sub besides the JL.

This was discussed in the SVS thread a while back. Ed Mullen posted that the SB13 would not match the JL's max output.

Not saying that the SVS isn't a great sub and a good bargain but at the limits, the JL will outperform it. How many owners need/use the extra performance is a separate discussion.
post #6458 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Shouldn't the SB13 be identical to the JL in performance? It has a lot of amp power and gets down to 20hz. And is much, much cheaper. I would get the 2 SB13's.
I originally wanted a JL, but the price is just too much. Did some more research on subs and decided the SB13 is the next best sealed sub besides the JL.

Better demo the Ken kreisel DXD12012 before closing the door on best sealed subs between the two above choices rareley can one use the words sweet, deep, powerful, articulate and pulse pounding room filling bass from one sub. all jokes aside it has to heard.
post #6459 of 6767
Right, because that thing is just as classy looking as the JL/SVS.
post #6460 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Right, because that thing is just as classy looking as the JL/SVS.

Seen one in person? I think its one beautiful sub and get this my wife and daughter loved its looks without me even asking them so in a nut shell yeah very classy indeed;)
post #6461 of 6767
Decided to go with dual f212 that i found a good deal on used... I doubt seriously that these will be lacking. Hopefully they will suffice for at least 15 years if not indefinitely.
post #6462 of 6767
How long can I expect a fathom subwoofer to last? Went to a store selling a competitor brand who said after three years fathom 113 may need to be re-coned due to foam wearing out.
post #6463 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Holland2 View Post

How long can I expect a fathom subwoofer to last? Went to a store selling a competitor brand who said after three years fathom 113 may need to be re-coned due to foam wearing out.

I think the salesman wanted to sell you what they carry and got "creative" with the facts, because I've never heard that one before. My first F113 is 5 years old and shows absolutely zero wear or degradation - I doubt I could tell it from a brand new surround. I don't recall a single post in this thread or any other where an F113 had issues with the surround, let alone required a reconing.

Did the salesman tell you why he believes the foam will wear out? Of could site examples he was aware of?

Of course, I can't tell you how long they last as to the best of my knowledge, none have failed yet.

Salesman - they say the funniest things. rolleyes.gif
post #6464 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Holland2 View Post

How long can I expect a fathom subwoofer to last? Went to a store selling a competitor brand who said after three years fathom 113 may need to be re-coned due to foam wearing out.

My Fathoms made it past the Mayan end of the world, so I think they'll last a long time...
post #6465 of 6767
Man, that's not even remotely likely AFAIK - an embarassingly ignorant statement, IMO (something that would immediately terminate my interest in dealing with that salesman). Besides, I'm sure there would be plenty of evidence in various forums by now if that were the case.

JL Audio has been making high performance speakers for auto and marine use for over 20 years. You can bet they use extremely durable materials, as weatherability certainly becomes an issue in these applications. In fact, the Fathoms actually use beefed up versions of their top of the line W7 mobile drivers. If you've ever felt the roll surround on a Fathom driver you would understand - that stuff is far from a foam, more like a heavy duty (thick!) plastic.
post #6466 of 6767
HI, I'm relatively new to home theater, having just planned and installed more of a media room than dedicated home theater roughly a year ago. I decided on Triad Gold LCR's with the Triad Gold DSP sub, which is a 15 woofer. At times I feel the DSP lacks that tight punch that brings an explosion or fight seen to life, so I'm considering making a change to 2 F113's. Personally, I'm more concerned with the punchy, tight, feel it in your chest bass that it seems the F113 delivers. My question is, does it sound like a good move to go with 2 F113's? Will I get that chest thumping bass? My room size is odd, roughly 45 L x 24 w x 8 h. This system is mainly used for home theater, when I am listening to music it is often background noise for a party so I'm not concerned with how it handles music. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
post #6467 of 6767
Sorry, another noob question, on JL Audio's website they list the Anechoic Frequency Response of the F113 as 20 - 86 Hz (1.5dB) -3 dB at 18 Hz / 127 Hz -10 dB at 16 Hz / 154 Hz. What does this really mean in terms of real world performance? I am trying to understand what this measurement means in relation to that of the Triad Gold DSP which is listed at 20 Hz - 200Hz (+/-2dB) F3 (-3dB) = 20 Hz. Again, sorry for such a simple question, thanks to anyone willing to answer.
post #6468 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaf44 View Post

Sorry, another noob question, on JL Audio's website they list the Anechoic Frequency Response of the F113 as 20 - 86 Hz (1.5dB) -3 dB at 18 Hz / 127 Hz -10 dB at 16 Hz / 154 Hz. What does this really mean in terms of real world performance? I am trying to understand what this measurement means in relation to that of the Triad Gold DSP which is listed at 20 Hz - 200Hz (+/-2dB) F3 (-3dB) = 20 Hz. Again, sorry for such a simple question, thanks to anyone willing to answer.
Mate, I have NO IDEA what they mean, but in real world performance, having owned a SVS PB 12+, a Rhythmik FV15HP and a few smaller Velodynes, I have never found my F 113 wanting.

The FV 15HP might have the slight edge in terms of sheer SPL but the tightness and SQ of the F113 was the best of the lot.

I don't think you should dwell on the specs alone and I am not sure how much 20Hz stuff are you listening to...
post #6469 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaf44 View Post

Sorry, another noob question, on JL Audio's website they list the Anechoic Frequency Response of the F113 as 20 - 86 Hz (1.5dB) -3 dB at 18 Hz / 127 Hz -10 dB at 16 Hz / 154 Hz. What does this really mean in terms of real world performance? I am trying to understand what this measurement means in relation to that of the Triad Gold DSP which is listed at 20 Hz - 200Hz (+/-2dB) F3 (-3dB) = 20 Hz. Again, sorry for such a simple question, thanks to anyone willing to answer.

This describes the range of frequencies that the woofer can play, and the consistency of loudness with which it plays those notes. Most all subwoofers begin to play the lowest notes at lower volume than the rest of the frequencies they reproduce. This effect is shown in the "-3db" measurement. Another important factor to consider is how loud a woofer can play back those low notes, its maximal output capability. This area is where the two subs you mention differ. The JL will play those low notes with more volume than the Triad. So, response and maximal output both affect the sound you will get.

Hope this helps,

Lee
post #6470 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaf44 View Post

HI, I'm relatively new to home theater, having just planned and installed more of a media room than dedicated home theater roughly a year ago. I decided on Triad Gold LCR's with the Triad Gold DSP sub, which is a 15 woofer. At times I feel the DSP lacks that tight punch that brings an explosion or fight seen to life, so I'm considering making a change to 2 F113's. Personally, I'm more concerned with the punchy, tight, feel it in your chest bass that it seems the F113 delivers. My question is, does it sound like a good move to go with 2 F113's? Will I get that chest thumping bass? My room size is odd, roughly 45 L x 24 w x 8 h. This system is mainly used for home theater, when I am listening to music it is often background noise for a party so I'm not concerned with how it handles music. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

You may want to check your setup, and make sure they're in phase and the crossover is set correctly.

I've heard 2 Triad Gold DSP subs in a theater room, and I have 2 F113's in my theater. Those DSP subs are pretty powerful and pack a serious punch. They definitely can bring an explosion or fight scene to life. I ended up going with F113s, but my decision wasn't based on performance because as I said those Triad's are impressive.
post #6471 of 6767
Thanks guys for your responses. It sounds like you guys are all happy with your choices to use the F113. Mookie, are you using Triad for you LCR? Did you actually consider Triad when you were seleting your sub? Lee and Pete, if you don't mind me asking, what speakers are you running for you front sound stage? Did the JL's blend in well?
post #6472 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaf44 View Post

Thanks guys for your responses. It sounds like you guys are all happy with your choices to use the F113. Mookie, are you using Triad for you LCR? Did you actually consider Triad when you were seleting your sub? Lee and Pete, if you don't mind me asking, what speakers are you running for you front sound stage? Did the JL's blend in well?

I considered triad for the whole system. I heard a system with gold monitors as LCR and 2 dsp gold subs, but the gold monitors were $3800 each I think so I passed. The subs are crazy powerful, but I already had one f113 so I ended up getting a second one instead of selling the first and getting 2 triads. I really like the front controls on the JL subs since mine are tucked in a cabinet.
post #6473 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaf44 View Post

Thanks guys for your responses. It sounds like you guys are all happy with your choices to use the F113. Mookie, are you using Triad for you LCR? Did you actually consider Triad when you were seleting your sub? Lee and Pete, if you don't mind me asking, what speakers are you running for you front sound stage? Did the JL's blend in well?

I'm using 2 JL F113s. I have B&W 801Ds as my L & R fronts, and an HTM1D as the center, these three powered by a Krell EV403 amplifier. The JLs improve the sound on both movies and music. Even though the big B&Ws are rated for 28Hz, crossing over to the JLs at 80Hz frees up the main speakers' woofers from having to reproduce those notes. In return, the entire spectrum is cleaner (distortion products from woofers can affect midrange and treble clarity). I'm very pleased with the current setup. I have had several long phone conversations with Barry Ober, JL's chief technical guy, about fine-tuning the setup and the crossover between the mains & subs. He's been extremely helpful.

Lee
post #6474 of 6767
Have any of you ever bottomed out the sub or pushed it passed it's limits. Someone on another thread said they had problems with that, but I don't think that will ever be the case. I think they will be perfect with my triads and I like the front controls as mine will be in a cabinet also. Mookie, did you place any bass trap or sound absorbing material around the subs?
post #6475 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaf44 View Post

Have any of you ever bottomed out the sub or pushed it passed it's limits. Someone on another thread said they had problems with that, but I don't think that will ever be the case. I think they will be perfect with my triads and I like the front controls as mine will be in a cabinet also. Mookie, did you place any bass trap or sound absorbing material around the subs?

Never bottomed it out. I think I'd hit my limits before the sub would.

I filled the cabinets with sound absorbing material around the subs and my speakers...
post #6476 of 6767
If you search this thread, you will find some posts referring to a mechanical limiter that supposedly protects the driver from excessive excursion. Not sure where this info originated since, as far as I can tell, JL has never detailed their protection scheme except to say it should protect the sub in most if not all possible scenarios. I know I have also read some claims that they do use a subsonic filter (which should be easily testable), so that could go a long way. JL did have their marketing VP posting here for a while (not in the last few years it seems), and here are some of his comments WRT overload:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/736243/jl-audio-fathom-13-sub/750#post_9090895

http://www.avsforum.com/t/736243/jl-audio-fathom-13-sub/1830#post_10016260
post #6477 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaf44 View Post

Have any of you ever bottomed out the sub or pushed it passed it's limits. Someone on another thread said they had problems with that, but I don't think that will ever be the case. I think they will be perfect with my triads and I like the front controls as mine will be in a cabinet also. Mookie, did you place any bass trap or sound absorbing material around the subs?



The first day I had my pair of F113's I hit the limiter on my left channel F113! I replayed the same track with just the right side F113 and no limiter activated! Played the track again thru the left sub and no limiter was activated. I was playing them at reference level and observing the excursion of the woofers. They do move quite a distance pushing air. It never happened again and I have "pushed these subs" in my room (20x15x8).
post #6478 of 6767
Anyone mix F113 with a F212? I am considering at my home to go to a multiple configuration.
post #6479 of 6767
Rumor of a new series to replace Fathom. Anyone know real facts? I have a local AV contact tell me hat new series would arrive soon
post #6480 of 6767
Quote:
Originally Posted by gchuva View Post

Rumor of a new series to replace Fathom. Anyone know real facts? I have a local AV contact tell me hat new series would arrive soon

The only new units that have been discussed are the E series subs which slot in below the Fathoms. They have been "coming soon" for a while. Neither of the JL dealers I've worked with are aware of Fathom replacements.

Doesn't mean the Fathom replacement isn't out there but I suspect he's referencing the E series subs.
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