Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 335

not asking how to set the sub up i know how to do that, but thanks anyway. anyone else has input would be appreciated.

So what happened to the different veneer finishes that SVS used to offer on the PB13-Ultra? I only see black oak and piano now.

Ed Mullen if I remember correctly said that the overwhelming majority of Ultra and Plus sales were in black oak and piano black -- it made no sense for them to keep offering the other finishes. While I agree that this is a loss -- the other finishes were indeed beautiful, and they could have offered them at a premium I guess -- I realize that if I ever had to order a PB Ultra or Plus, it would have been either black oak or piano black...

That's a shame. Gloss black would reflect too much light in my room, and the black oak doesn't give off that premium vibe. Every sub at Best Buy has a similar finish, even though synthetic.

Agreed. In particular, this sub was a pure beauty:

(Taken from SonicBoomAudio's front page. Not sure what model it was, probably an SB13-Plus).

That being said, take a look at MATA7's pics of his black oak Ultra. I think you can hardly say it's a Best Buy finish

The sub in the first pic is the (discontinued for awhile) SB12-Plus with the db12.3 driver (the same driver that used to be in the ported plus line). It has a smaller amp than the ported subs (425 watts IIRC), and a great small form factor. Good sub, small footprint, but not a ton of output. For its size and time though, a great little performer.

I just gave my old SB12-Plus to my brother (along with my old Energy Audyssey A3+2/A2+2/AC300 setup) a couple months ago. He is still smiling.

I remember now that you gave the same answer the first time I posted that picture

While I'm sure the current breed of SVS subs would crush that little one, it is sure pretty to watch though. Wouldn't be out of place in a nicely-furnished hip condo / housetown

That is a very nice gift! By chance my brother lives in Seoul so I won't have to give him my gear unless he moves closer

***

In other news: it's now clear that the house curve I'm using, and which was super nice with my previous SB12-NSD, is really holding back the dual PC12-Pluses. Will try EQing them flat this weekend if I can find the time. But REW complains about the size of the peaks and valleys in the frequency response, even using duals. I think I'll have to choose the floor level wisely for this to work well.

Alternatively, the temptation is great to throw money at the problem and just buy a receiver with Audyssey XT32 and be done with it.

While the SVS sub looks impressive in presence, the finish looks exactly like these:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer+-+Subwoofer/5086873.p?id=1218610014537&skuId=5086873&st=subwoofers&cp=1&lp=1
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Polk+Audio+-+10%22+100W+Powered+Subwoofer+-+Black/8826112.p?id=1207352528930&skuId=8826112&st=subwoofers&cp=1&lp=4
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Energy+-+8%22+240-Watt+Subwoofer/2762352.p?id=1218348986084&skuId=2762352&st=subwoofers&cp=1&lp=5

I just received a SB-13 Plus via SVS's outlet store. I was quite happy to get this because I like the STA-1000D amp's features for integration into the stereo setup it's going into. I don't think there is another sub at $1100 that is better suited for use with powered pro monitors.

I do have a question about it though - does anyone know what the sleep mode power consumption on this is? I'd rather not put it on a switched power outlet if I can avoid it due to logistical reasons.

He's a good brother, a solid guy, and a great father to my nieces/nephews. He also has 5 kids, so it didn't look like he was going to get anything beyond his HTiB for another few decades. It was fun getting the gear set up. The kids were excited and my brother was just grinning. He lives almost 1,100 miles from me. Nowhere near as far as Seoul, but it was still a hearty driver out there. Totally worth it.

I won't argue further as you're in fact quite right The reason for this is the large amount of black oak furniture out there I guess. Anyway my point was that the black oak finish on the Ultra and Plus is probably of a higher quality than on those cheap subs.

I could not find a definitive answer but it's probably very, very small. The standby (auto on) mode is quoted as being a "green" mode. I'd expect it to be rated at 1 or 2 W tops as the whole amp is in fact off save for the auto on circuitry. It should compare to standby power consumptions of receivers with "network standby" options. The amp itself when turned on with no signal will consume very few power as class D amps are very efficient.

Then you found the perfect gift Looks like he's not the only good brother in the family...

I had a feeling when buying my dual Pluses that it would be now or never The timing was right: now my GF is pregnant with our second kid, and I really wonder when I'll be able to really use them... I have hope however, as my 2-yo girl is constantly asking me to raise the volume when listening to her favorite dance songs!

Congratulations on the addition!

Not specifically referring to SVS, black oak finishes make everything look DIY. On the other hand, piano black finishes attract dust constantly, and show it.

Congrats Neutro!!!

Class D amps have great efficiency at high load - say 90%. As the load drops off the efficiency becomes not so wonderful. For typical music it's about 50%. I've seen a Class D amp use several percent of rated power with no input signal, so a 1000 watt class D amp could be drawing a fair bit of power if left on. This is why I asked about it.

As far as furniture color a black subwoofer is undesirable aesthetically to me. Even more so to my wife. It's too bad SVS is going that route. Hopefully they will change their minds before I need another sub, otherwise I'll be buying elsewhere.

I have to agree about black oak....it just reminds me too much of all the black vinyl speakers I used to have. They never looked very upscale to me. Now that many more manufactuers are offering wood finishes without charging a large premium, all the most recent speakers I've owned are either Cherry, Rosenut or Wenge colors.

I've always liked either gloss black or a Rosewood/cherry veneer. I'd love to see SVS bring back those options (for both the subs and the Ultra speaker line). My wife has put a kibosh on anymore gloss black (fingerprints), and neither of us like black oak.

Of course, I'd rather have a black oak than a truck-liner finish (personally), I never like that look at all.
Edited by Snowmanick - 3/2/13 at 6:55pm

Thanks guys. This actually means that instead of running duals, I'll sooh have duals running around.

You clearly know more about class D amps than I do. So I can't really comment further on power consumption when the amp is left on. However standby / auto on is different as the amp is actually off. That kind of circuitry is know really common and typically eats 1-2 watts.

I sure would welcome different finishes too, although in my case, as pretty as the natural oak and american cherry were, they would really havee been out of place in my living room. Anyway, I decided on black velvet after all But I must admit that the perspective of downgrading from piano black to black vinyl is part of the reason I didn't go with PB12-NSDs and jumped on Pluses.

***

In other news, I finally managed to find time to re-EQ my dual PC12-Plus. I was dissatisfied with the upper bass punch, even after using a higher crossover (100 Hz). So I finally dropped the house curve I've used since I had my SB12-NSD and decided to EQ the duals flat up to 100 Hz using REW and a BFD (Behringer DSP1124P). I must say.. ha, should have done this before. It sounds much more natural and balanced. What a surprise. Much better punch in the upper bass, and since the BFD can't EQ below 20 Hz, I still have a rather good bump there at port resonance. Surprisingly this EQ gives me a peak output (when not limited by compression) even lower than before, at 16.7 Hz. In-room extension is impressive with usable output down to 14 Hz at least. I still have to test the setup at higher volumes.

For the chart afficionados:



In blue: FR without EQing; note the dip at 75 Hz and large 9 dB peak at 45 Hz.
In green: result of REW's auto EQ using 8 filters. Bizarrely, the 9 dB cut at 45 Hz resulted in a *6-7 dB dip* at 46.5 Hz after EQ.
In red: I manually tweaked the filter values and reduced the 45 Hz cut to 5 dB only, removing the dip after EQ.

This shows how important it is to check the results and tweak by hand. Not sure if this is a weird phase effect due to duals, but the straightforward application of a 9 dB cut on a 9 dB peak failed spectacularly in my setup.

I should probably reduce the cut at 20 hz by 2-3 dB also. But I'm quite happy with the results so far.

As far as the black oak goes for me I cant see it in my theater when watching movies so who cares what color it is


Nashou

I'm pretty happy with the idea that the amp is actually off when in auto mode and no signal is being presented. I wish all of my amps behaved this way.

Either oak or cherry or really any medium tone wood color works in my living room. Hopefully there will be such an option from SVS in the future. The PB-12 Plus/2 I have is a color like this. The SB13 Plus I just received has american cherry sides which are actually much nicer than what is on my older Plus/2. Too bad it isn't offered any more.

Indeed, with the caveat that auto on can take a few seconds to wake up. With my dual subs they do not wake up exactly at the same time, so it's doubly jarring. Of course this is a pretty minor inconvenience.

Also note that if the power was cut to the subs at the outlet, then STA-800D and STA-1000D amps won't auto-turn-on. It is essential that the amp be turned on by holding the amp button for a few seconds. This is a problem when you either didn't notice the power being out or if you didn't remember to turn the amps back on manually. I myself spent a whole night wondering why the subs were so lacking following a power cut. In my case the back pannel is hard to reach and I have to turn each sub around (cylinders...) to turn them back on. If I had chosen box subs and put them in the same location, I probably would have to climb on them to perform the operation

How do you find the combination of cherry wood veneer and black vinyl on top? I remember Audioholic's reviewer did not like it much when reviewing the PB12-Plus. I for one thought they looked great, at least in pictures.

If anyone is in the market for subs with exceptional finishes and loads of finish options, it looks like Funk Audio can basically do whatever you want. You choose the wood, the taint, even the corner radius on the sub. Of course, be ready to open your wallet quite wide. And please choose carefully (I can't stand those bamboo subs).

Yes, this confused me when I first turned on the sub. For a while I thought I might have a DOA sub.

Well, this sub is not going into my living room - it's being used in a home office where this color combo is fine for me. If it was going into my living room I'd put something on top to hide the black top.

The pictures I've seen of the Funk audio stuff look great. I wish there were more reviews of their products though. It will be a while before I buy another sub so hopefully this will have been rectified. Another candidate with good finish choices is Seaton. If I was buying right now a SubM HP would be a very likely choice.

Congrats!

I have the same sub in the same color. Hopefully they will have another one some time. I want to try to have matching subs.

Well I had one PC12-Plus DOA, not the same thing In fact the amp was all right: the driver was stuck. A DOA amp would have been a breeze to replace. I had to ship the whole thing back and get a replacement. Of course the whole process was a breeze with SVS & Sonicboomaudio, I had no trouble getting a working unit.

There is few reviews of the Seaton but its reputation precede it. I think there is far less Funk Audio owners. Yet Nathan Funk dwells in AVSForum as well, and he seems to be quite a dedicated fellow. If I ever upgrade, it will be a though choice between Mark Seaton's, Nathan Funk's or Jeff Permaninan's offerings. As a Canadian I feel I should encourage Nathan, but it seems that he now offer flat pricing on all North America on his newer models.

Anyway this is all hypothetical as I just blew enough money to buy a SubHP on dual Pluses and can't imagine when I'll have the money and time to enjoy such a premium sub with the coming addition to our family.

Well at least you know someone who got one. Maybe if he bus that Submersive he'll be willing to part with the SB13

Got a few minutes alone to listen to the new EQ at higher volume. Music rocks. For movies though, well, I was used to a boosted low-end, so unsurprisingly, for the same volume, the floor shakes less. I did not try to run the sub hot however, but this is something I'd do watching a whole movie.

I'm torn between keeping the flat EQ and try to level-match the house-curve EQ with my mains, which is hard to do precisely. I'd have to use REW's RTA while adjusting the sub out level I guess. Tedious process as the sub level adjustment plays its own tone on my receiver without involving the mains.

Also, at -13 dB from reference, the red LED was blinking on my BFD with EQ on. I know clipping should be verified while in bypass mode, but yet, this may cause a problem. I'd better lower the sub on the AVR and raise the gain on both subs.

BTW, anyone knows by how much I should raise the gain on the dual subs if I'm to stay at the same level and I reduce the sub level by X dB on the AVR?

If you are adjusting the gain down, adjust the subs up by the same amount. Ie; Gain at 0 (zero) in AVR, and the subs are at 80, if you adjust the AVR down to -5.0, raise the subs to 85.

At least, that is what makes sense to me. If I adjust each of my subs to 69db, and assuming (for ease of example) that I am getting 6db gain from running duals, the combined output is 75db. If I increase each sub to 75db, they sum to 81db. Applying this to your setup, if your AVR's gain is reduced by 3db, increase the gain on each sub by 3db, as the AVR's gain is for the system.

Or maybe I've just had one too many tonight.

It does make absolute sense of course. But I always end up frustrated trying to use my SPL meter as I never know how much of a correction I should make while taking a reading, and since the reading fluctuates rather widely (+/- 3dB at least) when using pink noise, it's far from precise. The best way I found was using REW's RTA tool with a large averaging window.

But I was talking about the sub's gain setting. Suppose the sub level is 0 dB on the AVR, and -10 dB on each sub, for simplicity's sake. If I set the sub level to -6 on the AVR, if I had a single sub, setting the gain to -4 (6 dB higher) would get me what I want without having to take an SPL measurement. What should I do with duals? +3 dB on each? +6 dB on each? Maybe 4.24 dB?

+6 on each in your example (you have identical subs and they have equal weighting in your system). You are raising the level of the system, and the summed response is going to be a (semi)constant gain over a single sub at any given frequency (the amount changes based off of distance and frequency/wave length of course, but if you pick any one frequency, say 45hz, and the summed response is +4.5db, it is going to keep being +4.5db). I believe that Ed M. has said it is a one-for-one difference with the Sledge amps. So if your AVR is @ 0, and the subs are at -10db each, if you drop the AVR to -5db, set the gain on each sub to -5db. The summed response then goes up 5db from the sub amps and down 5db from the AVR trim, for a net change of 0.

Hi Neutro,
I've been really impressed by how good the dual SB13's sound with music. No boominess at all, just tight bass. Saying that, I run mine around 3-4 dB hot over my mains. I can understand the issue with the BFD (I use to have one) and a flat EQ. I'm running an SMS-1 should this allows you to take your calibrated EQ and boost the lower end when you are watching movies or have a flat EQ when listening to music. You can actually set up 5 completely different EQ's curves, for different types of movies or music (pop, jazz etc). A press of the button on the SMS-1 remote swaps between the various EQ curves.

As far as the clipping goes (bars going red on the BFD) what volume level are you currently running your SB13's at? Can you bump this up a bit and reduce it in your AVR. I beleive someone has already mentioned that it should be pretty close to a 1 to 1 between the AVR and the SB13's.

Regards,
Stephen

You're right... dB changes are relative so I must apply the same relative change to both subs.

I really liked my SB12 for music, and was very surprised to find the ported Plus even tighter -- I was half prepared for a fudged mess but I did not even feel the need to test sealed mode yet.

I think most AVRs are a bit shy on the sub level. The problem with running the sub hot is that sometimes it can be a bit jarring in the crossover region. A bass hitting a note at 120 Hz then at 70 Hz will sound weird. I want a very smooth transition between the mains and subs. But, at the same time, I'd like sub-30 Hz content to be powerful and house-shaking. That was the idea behind the house curve I used. But adjusting the sub's level when using a house curve is not easy.

That's an idea as I can store up to 10 presets on the BFD (or is it 12...). Yet I'd prefer a good EQ that feels great for both music and movies.

I have PC12-Pluses... Currently the AVR is at -9 dB and the Pluses are at -14 and -12 dB respectively. Ed Mullen mentioned that on the STA-800D and STA-1000D amps, the higher the gain the better (they now ship at max gain -- 0dB -- as a default). The goal is to compensate for that by lowering the sub level in the AVR. Alas my AVR has a -12 dB limit. I'll set it to -12 dB and bump the gain on the sub by +3dB each to compensate, and then I'll run out of options (short of using an attenuator) to reduce clipping on the BFD. Not sure if it actually clips or not at high volume: I see the red LED flashing but I don't notice distortion. I just wonder if the volume should be higher though. I have no idea if I would notice clipping on very low frequencies.

I know I should check the *input* range on the BFD in bypass mode though -- I've not done this yet and I'm not sure when I'll be able to (have to have the house to myself to perform tests close to reference levels). Yet I guess the red LED can't be too good when the BFD's PEQs are active. Maybe I have a dynamic range problem with the BFD. If I do, that would be a great excuse to order a MiniDSP I guess (that or a new AVR equipped with Audyssey MultEQ XT!).

The question is how do I know for sure if dynamic range is large enough on the BFD in the first place. I guess there's a thread for that somewhere