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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 346

post #10351 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by herushan View Post

Yea just one PC12 plus for now as that is all I can afford. It is better than not having a sub at all. It is a pain to do one step at a time upgrades and purchases.

Well a single PC12-Plus is 1) a big investment and 2) one hell of a sub. It would actually wipe the floor with about any retail sub up to $3000 or more. So "better than having no sub at all" is quite an understatement. Dual subs, while not exactly overrated (it does have interesting benefits) are not a panacea. In many cases (certainly mine included) dual Pluses can be totally overkill in terms of output capacity. I think dual NSDs would have been overkill too in my room too. I already mentioned that with dual Pluses, a quick back of the envelope computation told me that the subs should be the least limiting factor in my setup, in the sense that even running them a few dBs hot, I probably won't reach their limits before I reach the RMS wattage limits on my main speakers (which would in turn take a beefy external amp).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dapala View Post

Neutro, you're gonna really like the 818. Loaded with useful features and MultiEQ XT32 made my speakers sound great. I never realized how poorly my last system was setup regarding surround delay and loudness levels.

I can't wait to set it up... But since I'll have to take some time re-connecting everything, and configure it (and my Harmony remote) and run Audyssey and play with it a bit before I can use my setup as before, I think I'll have to schedule a whole day alone in the house to do this. Furthermore, since the 818 is way bigger than my current receiver, I think I'll take the occasion to move it in the upper bin of my HT cabinet, with a clear line of sight for the IR remote. This in turn will necessitate that I put my center speaker on *top* of the cabinet. Which implies I have to hang the TV on the wall for once biggrin.gif

So not sure when I'll be able to finally enjoy it, but it gives me the excuse to make much needed improvements in my setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Congrat's on the 818 again. As for the MiniDSP, once you actually have the unit, do the physical connections, run a flat EQ in the Mini while doing the adjustments for the distance of the subs, and then run XT32. Post Audyssey you can play with the House Curve, etc. At least, that is how I'd do it. smile.gif

I don't know why I haven't thought about it before. It's a great idea! I probably will be able to do the rough EQ using only one of the 6-biquad filter blocks available. The second 6-biquad block could be used to introduce a shelf afterward, and it would be easy to bypass the whole block to revert to a flat EQ. Thanks a lot for the tip.

Now if that MiniDSP (and UMIK-1 mic) would somehow ship that would be *great* rolleyes.gif
post #10352 of 15609
Quote:
Yea just one PC12 plus for now as that is all I can afford. It is better than not having a sub at all. It is a pain to do one step at a time upgrades and purchases.

LOL. If I had more than one SVS cylinder sub, it would blow me out of our theater. smile.gif
post #10353 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Now if that MiniDSP (and UMIK-1 mic) would somehow ship that would be *great* rolleyes.gif

Do I detect a bit of Lumberg there?
post #10354 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGMasta View Post

Do I detect a bit of Lumberg there?

I don't know what you're talking about at all.

post #10355 of 15609
(That being said, I got an email from Hong Kong this morning. The MiniDSP and UMIK-1 have indeed shipped biggrin.gif)
post #10356 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGMasta View Post

Do I detect a bit of Lumberg there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I don't know what you're talking about at all.


I'm betting on sarcasm.
post #10357 of 15609
Has anyone tried to refinish their sub with a different color veneer? I wish SVS still offered them in different finishes.
post #10358 of 15609
The MiniDSP is now in canadian territory. I guess it will get passed to CanadaPost and I'll get it tomorrow or the day after; then I'll know how much I'll have to pay in taxes and duty.

Nothing else to add -- this weekend, I just had time to finally wall mount the TV and thus make place for the receiver. Next step is calling a day off to make the receiver switch. But I had to take a day off today to bring my daughter to the doctor and also to get my phone line fixed; so I can't really take another day off this week mad.gif
post #10359 of 15609
Just a follow up: I finally got the MiniDSP and the UMIK-1. Here are the relevant information if anyone in Canada want to make the same kind of purchase. I know prices should not really be discussed but as there's no other way to obtain the same equipment to my knowledge, this is not to make comparisons, only a report on what the gear actually costs in the end.

I purchased the MiniDSP RevB ($US 125.00), the UMIK-1 ($US 75.00) and the Advanced 2-way crossover plugin ($US 10.00) for a total of $US 210.00. The order was made on Saturday April 6th. I was able to download the plugin immediately. The MiniDSP and mic got shipped on Friday April 12th using Hong Kong SpeedPost. The two items were bundled in a single package and shipping costs were $US 17.00 to Eastern Canada.

The package arrived in Canada on April 15th and was handed to CanadaPost after duty clearance. It got delivered today, April 17th. Fees had to be payed, not surprisingly: CanadaPost charged $CAN 9.95 for their leg of the trip; no duty was charged, but the standard taxes were applied (GST and PST in my case). There was a slight error though: the price indicated for duty included the plugin (which was a software download and not included in the package). Thus I paid about $1.50 excess tax, which I won't bother claiming back. I guess this slight problem could be bypassed by ordering the plugin separately. Total cost for me was about $CAN 270.00 including currency conversion for the MiniDSP, UMIK-1 and plugin.

Now I have to find either a USB charger or a 12V DC adapter to power the MiniDSP.

Of course I'll report back when I try it smile.gif
EDIT: BTW both the MiniDSP and the mic are actually smaller than I thought. They were not damaged, and they look great.
Edited by neutro - 4/17/13 at 6:27pm
post #10360 of 15609
^^^^

Pics or didn't happen..................tongue.gif

Congrats Neutro!!!
post #10361 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Now I have to find either a USB charger or a 12V DC adapter to power the MiniDSP.

Any dc power supply from 5 to 24 vdc and 150mA and up will work. I'm using a 12vdc .5A supply as it seems to run cooler than my USB chargers... and I already had it, sitting in a box of old junk collecting dust....
post #10362 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Pics or didn't happen..................tongue.gif

I'll try posting some tonight or soon anyway. Though I don't like being congratulated for purchases biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Any dc power supply from 5 to 24 vdc and 150mA and up will work. I'm using a 12vdc .5A supply as it seems to run cooler than my USB chargers... and I already had it, sitting in a box of old junk collecting dust....

Thanks for the hint! I'm sure I'll be able to find something in my junk box. I knew it would come handy someday!
post #10363 of 15609
Does anyone know how an SVS 20-39PCI compares to say an Outlaw LFM1 EX? I have an opportunity to purchase one for $300 and I am thinking that's a good deal but don't have a good reference point.
post #10364 of 15609
Sorry karanpd,I have no experience with either sub. The 20-39PCi looks like it's quite similar to the older BASH amp equipped PC12-NSD. It should be close to an LFM-1 EX in performances but the Outlaw has a few more Watts and is variable tuning, so it can probably go beyond the 20-39PCi in either extension or output depending on the chosen tuning. $300 is probably half the original price for a sub that is probably 8 years old.
post #10365 of 15609
A quick heads-up. I was able last weekend to set up the Onkyo 818. Audyssey MultEQ XT32 was run on 4 positions and while it does not represent a night and day difference with my Pioneer's Advanced MCACC, it's very listenable. I currently bypass the BFD and only use XT32 for sub EQing. I haven't taken a REW measurement yet (I just tested REW operation using the UMIK-1 and HDMI cable). To my ears, it sounds quite good, and found the sub test tone volume a bit shy. I had to lower the sub gain a lot to get the required 75 dB with a trim level of 0dB.

However by default, both Audyssey DynamicEQ and THX Loudness Plus are enabled. Not sure which of these are responsible for this, but at lower volumes, bass is significantly hot, much more than what I was getting using the Pio. As far as I can tell, it's a bit like running in Loudness or Midnight, but its not on/off; rather it's dynamic and depends on the volume.

The sub signal is quite large so at higher volumes I easily reach the clipping level on the BFD. I should use the high level input switch. But anyway, I'll ditch the BFD soon in favor of the MiniDSP. Using the MiniDSP with a single input, bypassing the crossover HPF and LPF creates a "perfect" Y. The MiniDSP allows adjusting the input dynamic range and the output volume (gain), so even if I don't EQ the subs, the MiniDSP will be super useful to tweak the sub volumes without having to reach behind the cylinders. I'll probably be able to bump the gain to 0dB on both subs and simply adjust the volume using the MiniDSP, which will be much more pleasant than pivoting the cylinders to access the control knob.
post #10366 of 15609
Neutro,

Try turning off the Dynamic Vol/EQ (and their THX equivalent), and see how you like it. The dynamic EQ'Vol programs have been shown to run LFE hot and clip (as you're seeing). I personally find Dyn EQ/Vol OK for TV, but more often than not just leave those two disabled.

Also, after Audyssey is done doing its thing with level setting, feel free to adjust the sub's level. I've seen some posts in the Audyssey thread and elsewhere that those initial test tones look for peaks, and those peaks can be/will be mitigated by XT32. The issue is that the trim isn't compensated in the AVR automatically after the EQ knocks the peaks down. So, post EQ, you are looking at a level that is actually too low for spec. Also, the internal test tones won't use post XT32 processing, so it is best to calibrate using something like REW's test tones or a disc (DVE, Disney's WOW, Avia, etc.) to see actual performance/levels.

Looking forward to seeing your results with the MiniDSP and XT32, and thanks for keeping us updated. smile.gif
post #10367 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Try turning off the Dynamic Vol/EQ (and their THX equivalent), and see how you like it. The dynamic EQ'Vol programs have been shown to run LFE hot and clip (as you're seeing). I personally find Dyn EQ/Vol OK for TV, but more often than not just leave those two disabled.

Well there are tons of settings to explore in the 818... DynamicEQ, THX Loudness, but also the Music vs Movie Audyssey target curves (Movie seems to have much more low-end bass), and per-source settings that allow fine-tuning bass (among other things) for music, movies, tv or gaming. THX Loudness and DynamicEQ will probably be the first two I'll test. But to be fair, I don't dislike the richness in bass, although it may be a bit over the top / surprising. The fact that it's enabled by default and thus represent what Onkyo / Audyssey / THX judge is best (I guess) is kind of reassuring: it's no wonder I wanted to run the subs hot with the Pioneer.
Quote:
Also, after Audyssey is done doing its thing with level setting, feel free to adjust the sub's level. I've seen some posts in the Audyssey thread and elsewhere that those initial test tones look for peaks, and those peaks can be/will be mitigated by XT32.
(...)
Looking forward to seeing your results with the MiniDSP and XT32, and thanks for keeping us updated. smile.gif

I'm aware of the problem; I just wanted to see what XT32 does first, and it's surprisingly balanced. I wanted to be able to take good REW measurements with the UMIK-1 and HDMI connection to the receiver before setting up the MiniDSP. Thus, I just bypassed the BFD and will likely just give it to the guy I sold my previous speakers and sub to... I'll likely combine the MiniDSP and XT32 as you suggested (e.g. EQ flat first, then run XT32, then possibly add a low frequency shelf with the MiniDSP on top of that). But in any case, the MiniDSP is small, will be invisible in the cabinet, is easy to set up and is a great way to manage levels between the AVR and both subs. EQing is simply a plus smile.gif
post #10368 of 15609
It should be (is) a killer set up. I'm looking forward to seeing how it all gels for you.
post #10369 of 15609
Right now, I still haven't included the MiniDSP in the setup. But I'm making progress smile.gif

The UMIK-1 is really easy to use and I'm preparing for a FR measurement. However it looks like the recording level is much lower than the RadioShack SPL meter. Even with the recording level set to 90/100 (the mic clips at 100/100), I will have to play the sweeps at a much higher volume than before to reach -18dB FS in REW. So that means no FR measurement when the girls are asleep biggrin.gif

In the mean time I'm debating whether to keep Audyssey DynamicEQ enabled or not. I'll probably disable it. Yet I like how the system sounds at low volumes. However, turning the volume up becomes almost anticlimatic as the bass doesn't follow biggrin.gif Also I can see how people are distracted by the balance between fronts and surrounds. I listened to the attack scene in Master & Commander at about -15 dB from reference with DynamicEQ on and the surrounds sounded as loud as the fronts... or maybe more?

However the best reason to turn DynamicEQ off would be because it would wreck the subwoofer EQ, as it dynamically adjust bass depending on the volume. Bass feels right -- or a tad hot -- at low volumes, but lacks kick at high volume currently with DynamicEQ on. If I EQ the sub with a house curve, bass will be too hot at low volumes and okay at higher volumes. I guess I should aim to EQ the subs with about the same amount of bass that DynamicEQ provides at say, -30 dB, or a bit less, and preserve that balance as volume is raised.

The only problem is how fun it is to listen to Bass, I Love You at -30 dB and still get gut wrenching bass with DynamicEQ on.
post #10370 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

The only problem is how fun it is to listen to Bass, I Love You at -30 dB and still get gut wrenching bass with DynamicEQ on.

i strongly recommend "Bassgasm (Ultimate woofer test)" by Techmaster P.E.B.
post #10371 of 15609
Lol I'll have to try that out for sure biggrin.gif
post #10372 of 15609
Hi everyone it was suggested i post this into this thread as well

I have recently purchased an SVS PB 13 Ultra too go with my Denon 4311, my room is 5x4 meters

The sub is place in a corner

I hooked it all up and followed the recommened settings by for SVS which is as follows

Volume -20
HIgh pass filter = Disabled
low pass filter = Disabled
Phase = 0
Hig pass delay = 0
Room compensation = Disabled
Subwoofer Tune @ 16Hz
PEQ1\PEQ2 =Disabled

I ran Audyssey on the Denon 4311

I played a few movies but one i am pretty familur with is Dark Night Rises, i found harldy any bass at the Audyssey volume level for the sub so i turned it up another 3db and still there was really not any reall slam and punch as has been discribed with this sub


Owners with the same setup could you please share your settings or tips and tricks fro this setup up


Thank you Dave
Edited by davesendor - 4/28/13 at 6:44pm
post #10373 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesendor View Post

Hi everyone it was suggested i post this into this thread as well

I have recently purchased an SVS PB 13 Ultra too go with my Denon 4311, my room is aprox 2000Sq feet

The sub is place in a corner

I hooked it all up and followed the recommened settings by for SVS which is as follows

Volume -20
HIgh pass filter = Disabled
low pass filter = Disabled
Phase = 0
Hig pass delay = 0
Room compensation = Disabled
Subwoofer Tune @ 16Hz
PEQ1\PEQ2 =Disabled

I ran Audyssey on the Denon 4311

I played a few movies but one i am pretty familur with is Dark Night Rises, i found harldy any bass at the Audyssey volume level for the sub so i turned it up another 3db and still there was really not any reall slam and punch as has been discribed with this sub


Owners with the same setup could you please share your settings or tips and tricks fro this setup up


Thank you Dave

Dave,

Congrats on your purchase!

I do have a PB13 Ultra at home (actually two of them) and I'm also using a 4311. So, from the SVS it seems everything looks fine. However, when I ran Audyssey I had to adjust the subwoofer gain (volume) to -15 dB in order to match the 75 dB reading required for Audyssey. Did you manage to adjust the Ultra's gain/volume to match the 75 dB required by Audyssey?

Let's clarify this first and then we can continue validating settings.
post #10374 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesendor View Post

Hi everyone it was suggested i post this into this thread as well

I have recently purchased an SVS PB 13 Ultra too go with my Denon 4311, my room is aprox 2000Sq feet

The sub is place in a corner

I hooked it all up and followed the recommened settings by for SVS which is as follows

Volume -20
HIgh pass filter = Disabled
low pass filter = Disabled
Phase = 0
Hig pass delay = 0
Room compensation = Disabled
Subwoofer Tune @ 16Hz
PEQ1\PEQ2 =Disabled

I ran Audyssey on the Denon 4311

I played a few movies but one i am pretty familur with is Dark Night Rises, i found harldy any bass at the Audyssey volume level for the sub so i turned it up another 3db and still there was really not any reall slam and punch as has been discribed with this sub


Owners with the same setup could you please share your settings or tips and tricks fro this setup up


Thank you Dave

I had a hell of a time dialing in my sb12-nsd. Location was the biggest factor in my case, but I found a corner (spot I kind-of didn't want to put it) that gave really nice output. Then, still, I had to raise the gain two notches.

I ran Audessey over and over again after even slight adjustments in the positioning of any speaker, especially the sub. And I experimented with mic positions, like using two feet from each postion to just winging it. Turns out that the mic positions do make a big difference (in my case) with crossovers and even subwoofer output.

Now I have the system dialed in really good. And honestly the biggest challenge was the sub. Everything else sounded great, but output, nulls, and localization problems with the sub were hard to iron out. I still have problems with nulls, but no more localization and the bass shakes the glasses in my kitchen cabinet. And my sub is way, way, way wimpier then yours. Don't be afraid to turn it up.
post #10375 of 15609
One more thing....

These guys on this tread convinced me that the size of my sub, or my sub selection, was not the problem. I almost spent twice as much to remedy the "problem" but their information made everything sound great. So I'd suggest trying their solutions patiently before making any drastic moves.

Thanks guys!
post #10376 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesendor View Post

Hi everyone it was suggested i post this into this thread as well

I have recently purchased an SVS PB 13 Ultra too go with my Denon 4311, my room is aprox 2000Sq feet

The sub is place in a corner

I hooked it all up and followed the recommened settings by for SVS which is as follows

Volume -20
HIgh pass filter = Disabled
low pass filter = Disabled
Phase = 0
Hig pass delay = 0
Room compensation = Disabled
Subwoofer Tune @ 16Hz
PEQ1\PEQ2 =Disabled

I ran Audyssey on the Denon 4311

I played a few movies but one i am pretty familur with is Dark Night Rises, i found harldy any bass at the Audyssey volume level for the sub so i turned it up another 3db and still there was really not any reall slam and punch as has been discribed with this sub


Owners with the same setup could you please share your settings or tips and tricks fro this setup up


Thank you Dave

You say you set the sub's Eq to 16Hz. Did you plug one of the ports? Also, I have heard from guys running Audyssey that you have to turn up the sub a few dB. Don't be afraid of running the sub up to 6dB hotter. Just make sure it blends in with the other speakers and can't be localized. Enjoy the new sub!
post #10377 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesendor View Post

Hi everyone it was suggested i post this into this thread as well

I have recently purchased an SVS PB 13 Ultra too go with my Denon 4311, my room is aprox 2000Sq feet

The sub is place in a corner

I hooked it all up and followed the recommened settings by for SVS which is as follows

Volume -20
HIgh pass filter = Disabled
low pass filter = Disabled
Phase = 0
Hig pass delay = 0
Room compensation = Disabled
Subwoofer Tune @ 16Hz
PEQ1\PEQ2 =Disabled

I ran Audyssey on the Denon 4311

I played a few movies but one i am pretty familur with is Dark Night Rises, i found harldy any bass at the Audyssey volume level for the sub so i turned it up another 3db and still there was really not any reall slam and punch as has been discribed with this sub


Owners with the same setup could you please share your settings or tips and tricks fro this setup up


Thank you Dave

Hi Dave -

A few questions:
  • what was the original post-Audyssey AVR sub channel level
  • what speakers are you running for mains/center
  • what is the size setting and speaker/sub crossover for each channel
  • what is the AVR subwoofer mode setting
  • what is the AVR LPF for LFE setting


Thanks.
post #10378 of 15609
2000 sq feet? That's huge! I know the PB13-ultra is powerful but I doubt it's powerful enough for a ball room.
post #10379 of 15609
Audyssey has an weird habit of crossing very low. For example, it would set my crossover to 40 Hz with my Energy RC-70s -- those can go low but 40 Hz is a bit of a stretch if you want to experience great mid-bass on your sub. Revert any low crossover value to at least 80 Hz, raise the sub level a bit, and things should get better.
post #10380 of 15609
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Audyssey has an weird habit of crossing very low. For example, it would set my crossover to 40 Hz with my Energy RC-70s -- those can go low but 40 Hz is a bit of a stretch if you want to experience great mid-bass on your sub..

It's not weird, but completely explainable: Audyssey sets the crossover at the -3 dB point of the speakers, and that's what your Energys are doing in your room. I don't think Audyssey measures how much distortion is present at that frequency, though, which is why many prefer to choose a higher crossover point that Audyssey has--a decent sub will handle bass with less distortion than the low end of your Energys.
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