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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 351

post #10501 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by narutium View Post

i am a new owner of SVS PB-13 ultra.
it violently shook the room of my house last night.......
If i prefer the "fast" and "quick" bass like JL Fathom 113.
will inserting the foam plugs into the PB 13 help?

The foam plugs might help, but that depends upon what the actual issue is. Having your room shake is generally what most people are looking to achieve, but it seems like that's not what you want?

How do you have the controls set on the subwoofer? What's your crossover set for?
post #10502 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

no. at one point SVS was American made (and they were very proud of it). now under their new management they are completely China built

PSA is ~90% American made and built.....from PSA site: " The stylish, down-firing, black sand texture cabinets and high output 15” drivers are built by hard working Americans. In fact, every single part, except for the amplifier, is purchased from an American company. "

The amp is from a Canadian company, which is technically part of North America. Does that make it implicitly American then? biggrin.gif
post #10503 of 15588
A quick question for you guys.

I've been thinking and planning to get a dual sub setup. Currently I have a single PB12-Plus DSP (at the front wall). I'm wondering will there any ill effect if I only get a PB12-NSD (at the back corner) instead of another PB12-Plus DSP? Reason for me is due to the size and placement limitation.

Thanks in advance.
post #10504 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

A quick question for you guys.

I've been thinking and planning to get a dual sub setup. Currently I have a single PB12-Plus DSP (at the front wall). I'm wondering will there any ill effect if I only get a PB12-NSD (at the back corner) instead of another PB12-Plus DSP? Reason for me is due to the size and placement limitation.

Thanks in advance.

It would not be the most appropriate.
The average Plus 6db more than the NSD, I would limit the maximum capacity. The best parks put another PB12-Plus, if you are looking for part of a best answer is to have more spl.
post #10505 of 15588
i want those SS pc subs they look powerful!

i have enough for 1 sub.. should i go 1 ultra and hope it works out.. or 1 pc plus and add more later?

only 350 more for ultra..

cheers..
post #10506 of 15588
Quote:
i have enough for 1 sub.. should i go 1 ultra and hope it works out.. or 1 pc plus and add more later?

I'd go for the Ultra, but that's just me. smile.gif
post #10507 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

i want those SS pc subs they look powerful!

i have enough for 1 sub.. should i go 1 ultra and hope it works out.. or 1 pc plus and add more later?

only 350 more for ultra..

cheers..

I went with the Ultra. I didn't want to leave any bass at the store.
post #10508 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

i want those SS pc subs they look powerful!

i have enough for 1 sub.. should i go 1 ultra and hope it works out.. or 1 pc plus and add more later?

only 350 more for ultra..

cheers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I'd go for the Ultra, but that's just me. smile.gif


I myself would go for TWO Ultra's! tongue.gif

You only live once! wink.gif


... Glenn smile.gif
post #10509 of 15588
Hope to get some more advice from you guys again. I'm looking into upgrading my PC12-NSD in the future. I've had it for about 5 months now and really do love it. It is almost perfect for my unconventional setup - I am running a HTPC using a pair of Tannoy 501A studio monitors as my mains with input from a Focusrite 2i4 external interface via XLR balanced output. My PC12-NSD input is coming from the Focusrite as well but unbalanced using the RCA output with cable bought from Monoprice. My Tannoy's sing incredibly loud and clear, with output levels that the PC12-NSD can just keep up with. There are several reasons I am wanting to upgrade:

1 - No XLR Balanced output/input on the PC12-NSD like on higher-end models SVS offers. After testing my Tannoy's going from balanced to unbalanced, I was shocked at how much of a difference in sound as well as output there was...it was like I was switching not just speakers, but an entire sound system. I can only imagine what XLR balanced sounds like using a PC12+/Ultra, or a SB13 Ultra.
2 - I sometimes listen to music at very loud levels and while I can push my Tannoy's at higher levels, my PC12's red indicator light comes on and stays on for 2-3 second intervals when listening to heavy bass music like dubstep. I am sure this isn't good for the longevity of the sub, but thanks to SVS's warranty I don't really care biggrin.gif. Basically, I think even though I sometimes knock my roommates stuff off the walls, I still need more punch!
3 - Lastly, I am in the military and about to go to Africa for 9 months come August. Instead of putting my system in storage, I'm going to give everything but the sub to my mother - she lives in Hawaii and not only do I not want to ship it there but she'll never use it's capabilities...hence, I'll probably sell it since the 1-year upgrade SVS offers will expire by the time I get back.

When I get back I plan on re-doing everything from building another HTPC, to upgrading my Tannoy 501A's to the larger version 601A's and going from 2.1 to 4.1 or 4.2. I'll also have to get an external interface that has more than one L/R XLR balanced output so I can have either one L/R XLR output going to a set of speakers and the other XLR going to the sub with the sub XLR output going to the other pair of speakers...or both balanced outputs going to a pair of subs and their outputs going to a pair of speakers each. Hope that's not too confusing to envision. Altogether, I plan on spending between $3000-$5000 just on the stereo equipment. Right now, the room I have everything in is around 2100 cubic feet.

My questions:
- Has anyone used the XLR connections on the SVS subs? Can you tell a difference between the other connections like LFE?
- Considering my budget, would it be better to go the A/V receiver/hi-fi speakers route verse the interface/studio monitors route? I like loud and clear!
- My usage is 80/20 music/movies. After reading recent posts describing the price difference/performance of $600 from the PC12+ vs. PC12 ultra, should I go with just a PC12+ and maybe get another later or go with a SB13 ultra instead? I've heard great things between all three of these subs listed and not sure what to try and shoot for.

BTW, I know it's premature from me actually doing any purchasing but I like to do my research well in advance. Thank you for the help.
post #10510 of 15588
There's always a *ton* of activity in this thread when I have to go away for a day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by narutium View Post

i am a new owner of SVS PB-13 ultra.
it violently shook the room of my house last night.......
If i prefer the "fast" and "quick" bass like JL Fathom 113.
will inserting the foam plugs into the PB 13 help?
thank you

As others mentioned, shaking the room (or house) is typically a sign that the Ultra is doing its job. If you currently use the 20 Hz tuning mode, you can put your sub in two other tunings: 16 Hz, which will trade a bit of output for an even lower extension (which may shake different parts of your house more efficiently), or sealed, which may provide something more akin to you Fathom. If you seal your Ultra, you will basically end up with an oversized SB13 Ultra.

But the "fast" / "quick" feeling you get with the Fathom may be subtle differences in bass EQ. Depending on how you EQ your sub (no EQ, EQ from AVR via, says, Audyssey, or a dedicated external DSP), you will end up with very different feelings. Accent on mid- and upper-bass to the detriment or low-bass (or ultra-low-bass) may indeed sound fast / quick / tight / etc. It's impossible to have very low frequencies sound tight -- detailed attack in percussion for example is found closer to the standard 80 Hz crossover and above. So one thing you may want to do is to adjust your EQ, if possible, in order to boost the mid-bass, or reduce the low frequencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

those look like your kind of svs PC subs Neutro..

They are surprising but I think I still prefer the understated looks of my velvet-covered cylinders. Nobody notices them anymore, it's amazing.
Quote:
im ready to place an order for the svs pc sub... are they made in ohio or china? i thought the psa subs where some parts are made in china and assembled in ohio...

I can only say that there is a "made in China" label on the SVS boxes.
Quote:
would a basement concrete floor covered with raised wood carpet add to base out put vs upstair on the wood floor which would be more? or less?

Basement concrete floor will interact less with bass, leaving most of the acoustical energy in the air. It can be good because there likely won't be resonance causing dips because of the floor, but it can induce more reverberation. I don't have a choice, but I don't dislike the transmission of vibrations on my wood floor. However it's surprising that those are actually small compared to how some of my furniture vibrate due to resonance. The footrest, and also the couch, picks up quite a bit of acoustic energy -- directly from the air as the floor doesn't vibrate at the same frequencies. So wood floors are not bad at all. I never tried my subs on a concrete floor though.
Quote:
i keep thinking pc plus but then pc ultras.. do pc ultras shake the house violently too.. i ve heard the psa xv 30 shake your whole house np?

They're all great subs delta smile.gif The XV30 is a monster alright, but even the PC Plus is no slouch. Your room is quite small at 1680 cu ft and a single Plus or even XV15 would provide excellent results. I can understand the temptation to go with an Ultra though -- after all, once you go Ultra, you get the best SVS has to offer. But if you're pretty sure you'll go duals some time in the future, you would have great results with a single Plus, and dual Pluses will bring you above a single Ultra in output and with all the added benefits of two bass sources. It will be $700 less for dual Pluses than it is for dual Ultras biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

A quick question for you guys.
I've been thinking and planning to get a dual sub setup. Currently I have a single PB12-Plus DSP (at the front wall). I'm wondering will there any ill effect if I only get a PB12-NSD (at the back corner) instead of another PB12-Plus DSP? Reason for me is due to the size and placement limitation.

Lecter is right. The problem is, if you raise your volume, you will reach the PB12-NSD's limits first, and it will contribute minimally when the Pluses are pushed, with higher distortion and possibly bad behavior (although SVS subs are renowned for being quite well behaved at their limits. If you use the Pluses at the 16 Hz tune, the NSD is not multi-tuning, so that effect will be even stronger below 20 Hz. If your Pluses are set to 20 Hz tune however, they will have a response remarkably close to the NSD, so at moderate volume (i.e. below the NSD's limits), you will have a well matched trio. But if you say that you never use your 20-Hz tuned Pluses above NSD levels, then this begs the question as to why you use Pluses instead of NSDs... (This is tongue in cheek of course as I have dual Pluses that I probably very seldom use above the limits of a single NSD myself!biggrin.gif )
post #10511 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

(This is tongue in cheek of course as I have dual Pluses that I probably very seldom use above the limits of a single NSD myself!biggrin.gif )

This is a good statement.

The most important thing I learned reading this forum is that output is equal to room size and db volume. Sure I could fit in an eyesore PB-Ultra (an eyesore size-wise in my smaller room), but I wouldn't utilize its full potential, most of the time. However, getting the lower hz's is a big plus.

After equalizing your system for reference, in my case with Audysssy, only extremely high volumes would benefit.

But damn it, those big subs are awesome. I wish I had I little more space for those times I wanna have fun.
post #10512 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

There's always a *ton* of activity in this thread when I have to go away for a day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by narutium View Post

i am a new owner of SVS PB-13 ultra.
it violently shook the room of my house last night.......
If i prefer the "fast" and "quick" bass like JL Fathom 113.
will inserting the foam plugs into the PB 13 help?
thank you

As others mentioned, shaking the room (or house) is typically a sign that the Ultra is doing its job. If you currently use the 20 Hz tuning mode, you can put your sub in two other tunings: 16 Hz, which will trade a bit of output for an even lower extension (which may shake different parts of your house more efficiently), or sealed, which may provide something more akin to you Fathom. If you seal your Ultra, you will basically end up with an oversized SB13 Ultra.

But the "fast" / "quick" feeling you get with the Fathom may be subtle differences in bass EQ. Depending on how you EQ your sub (no EQ, EQ from AVR via, says, Audyssey, or a dedicated external DSP), you will end up with very different feelings. Accent on mid- and upper-bass to the detriment or low-bass (or ultra-low-bass) may indeed sound fast / quick / tight / etc. It's impossible to have very low frequencies sound tight -- detailed attack in percussion for example is found closer to the standard 80 Hz crossover and above. So one thing you may want to do is to adjust your EQ, if possible, in order to boost the mid-bass, or reduce the low frequencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

those look like your kind of svs PC subs Neutro..

They are surprising but I think I still prefer the understated looks of my velvet-covered cylinders. Nobody notices them anymore, it's amazing.
Quote:
im ready to place an order for the svs pc sub... are they made in ohio or china? i thought the psa subs where some parts are made in china and assembled in ohio...

I can only say that there is a "made in China" label on the SVS boxes.
Quote:
would a basement concrete floor covered with raised wood carpet add to base out put vs upstair on the wood floor which would be more? or less?

Basement concrete floor will interact less with bass, leaving most of the acoustical energy in the air. It can be good because there likely won't be resonance causing dips because of the floor, but it can induce more reverberation. I don't have a choice, but I don't dislike the transmission of vibrations on my wood floor. However it's surprising that those are actually small compared to how some of my furniture vibrate due to resonance. The footrest, and also the couch, picks up quite a bit of acoustic energy -- directly from the air as the floor doesn't vibrate at the same frequencies. So wood floors are not bad at all. I never tried my subs on a concrete floor though.
Quote:
i keep thinking pc plus but then pc ultras.. do pc ultras shake the house violently too.. i ve heard the psa xv 30 shake your whole house np?

They're all great subs delta smile.gif The XV30 is a monster alright, but even the PC Plus is no slouch. Your room is quite small at 1680 cu ft and a single Plus or even XV15 would provide excellent results. I can understand the temptation to go with an Ultra though -- after all, once you go Ultra, you get the best SVS has to offer. But if you're pretty sure you'll go duals some time in the future, you would have great results with a single Plus, and dual Pluses will bring you above a single Ultra in output and with all the added benefits of two bass sources. It will be $700 less for dual Pluses than it is for dual Ultras biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

A quick question for you guys.
I've been thinking and planning to get a dual sub setup. Currently I have a single PB12-Plus DSP (at the front wall). I'm wondering will there any ill effect if I only get a PB12-NSD (at the back corner) instead of another PB12-Plus DSP? Reason for me is due to the size and placement limitation.

Lecter is right. The problem is, if you raise your volume, you will reach the PB12-NSD's limits first, and it will contribute minimally when the Pluses are pushed, with higher distortion and possibly bad behavior (although SVS subs are renowned for being quite well behaved at their limits. If you use the Pluses at the 16 Hz tune, the NSD is not multi-tuning, so that effect will be even stronger below 20 Hz. If your Pluses are set to 20 Hz tune however, they will have a response remarkably close to the NSD, so at moderate volume (i.e. below the NSD's limits), you will have a well matched trio. But if you say that you never use your 20-Hz tuned Pluses above NSD levels, then this begs the question as to why you use Pluses instead of NSDs... (This is tongue in cheek of course as I have dual Pluses that I probably very seldom use above the limits of a single NSD myself!biggrin.gif )

thanks for you time Neutro.. man you do some good work on avs svs sub thread... biggrin.gif hope i can bug u about eq in the near future..

well i will wake up and try to decided.. on the svs usa site the wizzard says i should get the pc ultra to match my studio 100s speakers...
but if i ask the store owner or director at svs they say plus will do based on room size.. wonder why wizzard dont ask about room size..

and i learn hear tonight that if u like your music loud the nsd sub dose not keep up.. the base on my 100s is excellent with the emotiva amp which im going to upgrade as well..
will the plus keep up .. i have a fair amount of room treatments and will add more as well.. need some clouds.. and a bit of diffusion .. its alot easier than sub eqing scares the hell out of me..

cheers..
post #10513 of 15588
Well a few wanted to know how I like my PSA dual XS15 & I love them! They are clean, tight & deep. They look fantastic too. For anyone that wants to follow my impressions they can on the PSA thread. wink.gif

post #10514 of 15588
Quote:
My usage is 80/20 music/movies. After reading recent posts describing the price difference/performance of $600 from the PC12+ vs. PC12 ultra, should I go with just a PC12+ and maybe get another later or go with a SB13 ultra instead? I've heard great things between all three of these subs listed and not sure what to try and shoot for.

That’s a tuff one! Some of the SVS options I have ran in the past are three 25-31+’s, a PB12Ultra and dual PC13ultra’s. All were great options. I have not tried the SB13Ultra, but have a couple DIY 18” subs that do very well coupled with the BASSIS for EQ. Since your 80-20 music.. If it were me, I think I might shoot for a couple of SB13’s. (heck one might be plenty) That’s not to say the other options would not be a good choice. The + and the Ultra are outstanding for music and HT imo.
post #10515 of 15588
today i sent in an email to svs ask an expert with my room size 20 x 12 x 7 ft.. after i did the wizzard match pc13 ultras to 100s

he said i should get the i should get the pb1000 be plenty of slam or maybe even the pc12 nsd since i want pc..

kinda makes me more confused rolleyes.gif man life tuff decisions its nice to have this forum for help..

any one think pb1000 be good or pc 12 nsd.. after reading trace 79 couldnt keep up at high volumes.....

talk about anxiety

biggrin.gif
post #10516 of 15588
Quote:
any one think pb1000 be good or pc 12 nsd.. after reading trace 79 couldnt keep up at high volumes.....
In that size room I would go for the 12. I’m not sure if I ever tried the 10 in my past theater, but I do know I have tried the PCi-12.. it has more to give. It’s one of the subs I have kept over the years. Anyway although they were in different rooms.. I really think the 12 would be more of a match for your size HT. Happy shopping smile.gif
post #10517 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

after i did the wizzard match pc13 ultras to 100s

When I talked to a rep at SVS a few months ago, I asked about their online Wizard tool. I was told the main thing it takes into account is the speakers you select, it's not always accurate.

I ended up buying a PC12+, it's an awesome sub. I'd go with the 12, and don't look back...
post #10518 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

When I talked to a rep at SVS a few months ago, I asked about their online Wizard tool. I was told the main thing it takes into account is the speakers you select, it's not always accurate.

I ended up buying a PC12+, it's an awesome sub. I'd go with the 12, and don't look back...

SVS was nice enough to enter my speakers into Merlin, the sub selector. I entered my speakers and it selected the PC12-Plus for my speakers. So I bought a PC13-Ultra.
post #10519 of 15588
I stand corrected, thank you for clearing that up in my mind! smile.gif
post #10520 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace79 View Post

1 - No XLR Balanced output/input on the PC12-NSD like on higher-end models SVS offers. After testing my Tannoy's going from balanced to unbalanced, I was shocked at how much of a difference in sound as well as output there was...it was like I was switching not just speakers, but an entire sound system. I can only imagine what XLR balanced sounds like using a PC12+/Ultra, or a SB13 Ultra.
2 - I sometimes listen to music at very loud levels and while I can push my Tannoy's at higher levels, my PC12's red indicator light comes on and stays on for 2-3 second intervals when listening to heavy bass music like dubstep. I am sure this isn't good for the longevity of the sub, but thanks to SVS's warranty I don't really care biggrin.gif. Basically, I think even though I sometimes knock my roommates stuff off the walls, I still need more punch!

(...)

Right now, the room I have everything in is around 2100 cubic feet.

(...)

My questions:
- Has anyone used the XLR connections on the SVS subs? Can you tell a difference between the other connections like LFE?
- Considering my budget, would it be better to go the A/V receiver/hi-fi speakers route verse the interface/studio monitors route? I like loud and clear!
- My usage is 80/20 music/movies. After reading recent posts describing the price difference/performance of $600 from the PC12+ vs. PC12 ultra, should I go with just a PC12+ and maybe get another later or go with a SB13 ultra instead? I've heard great things between all three of these subs listed and not sure what to try and shoot for.

I haven't used the XLR inputs on my Pluses, but it looks like it's something you're really looking forward to. If the LED on your NSD sub lights up for up to 3 seconds continuously, then you're hitting its limits (although you may not hear anything bad). The limiter on the sub is very good so you won't break anything and you may not even hear a bad noise coming from the sub. But it won't play any louder in the frequency range that has reached max output. Your room is not that big... medium-sized at best. So because you need a tad more output and XLR inputs, I think you'd be quite happy with either a Plus or the SB13 Ultra. The difference between the PC12-Plus and PC13-Ultra is about 3 dB more in SPL output, and an added PEQ in the DSP if you need those. It's up to you to decide if the price difference is worth it. The SB13 will provide you a very different form factor, but down close to 20 Hz I think the Plus may have an advantage. Above 40 Hz the SB13 will likely play louder than the Plus.

But the PC12-Plus would fit the bill with XLR inputs and more output while keeping the cylinder form factor. In your room it should be enough for your needs, and if you want to go duals, it will be less expensive to add a second Plus than it would be adding an Ultra.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

thanks for you time Neutro.. man you do some good work on avs svs sub thread... biggrin.gif hope i can bug u about eq in the near future..

No problem. But EQing is not necessarily hard. For example, Audyssey MultEQ equipped receivers do it all automatically and the result is quite good. (Caveat: I have still to take measurements with my new AVR).
Quote:
well i will wake up and try to decided.. on the svs usa site the wizzard says i should get the pc ultra to match my studio 100s speakers...
but if i ask the store owner or director at svs they say plus will do based on room size.. wonder why wizzard dont ask about room size..

I think the Merlin wizard should take room size into account as it's more important in fact than the speakers. What Merlin does is match the max output of the sub with the max output of the speakers, assuming they're driven with powerful enough amps. But it is likely that you use your speakers way below their limits, especially in a small room.
Quote:
and i learn hear tonight that if u like your music loud the nsd sub dose not keep up.
(...)
will the plus keep up .. .

Depends on how loud and how big the room is. But I can assure you that you could push a PC12-NSD quite uncomfortably loud in a 1680 cu ft room without hitting the limits. The Plus has twice the RMS power so you would stay safely below its limits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

he said i should get the i should get the pb1000 be plenty of slam or maybe even the pc12 nsd since i want pc..

kinda makes me more confused rolleyes.gif man life tuff decisions its nice to have this forum for help..

any one think pb1000 be good or pc 12 nsd.. after reading trace 79 couldnt keep up at high volumes.....

talk about anxiety

biggrin.gif Don't worry too much. The reason for this is that your room is quite small. In such a small room, the PB-1000 would probably be enough for most of your needs. If you prefer the cylinder form factor, the PC12-NSD is the step up and you will get a beefier amp and driver. I doubt you'd reach the limits of a PC12-NSD in your room, and if you ever go duals, it would be less expensive with the NSD than a Plus, and will give you plenty of output.

You could try the NSD and upgrade if you hit its limits, if you're ready to hit the return transport fees. With the Plus, you would probably have an overkill sub, which many people actually like to have tongue.gif. You would also have the ability to try different tunings (20 Hz, 16 Hz, sealed). Going dual Pluses would be significantly more expensive though. I really think you'd have little actual use for an Ultra, but I can see how tempting it is to get one if money is no obstacle biggrin.gif I myself went completely overboard with dual Pluses in a room as small as yours. Even in "demo" sessions (close to reference levels), I have the distinct impression that the subs are actually a bit bored with what I demand of them.
Edited by neutro - 5/9/13 at 11:13am
post #10521 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

any one think pb1000 be good or pc 12 nsd.. after reading trace 79 couldnt keep up at high volumes.....

talk about anxiety

biggrin.gif

I wouldn't let my report of wanting more output from my PC12-NSD discourage you from thinking it won't be enough for your needs. This thing can really rock! I can't play it even close to it's limits late at night due to noise complaints...but the hours that we ARE allowed to play loud music, I crank it at times and walk out into the hallway and all the way to the end of the hall [think dorm-style living,]...man I'm sure my neighbors hate me lol. There is all kinds of rattling noises coming from the walls and ceiling and I have been visited more than a few times by the girl who lives at the very end of the hall about 60' away to turn it down. Not to mention that I also recently knocked my roommates clock off his wall.

I don't listen to music frequently at these levels and movies certainly not. The low's in most movies are portrayed more than enough with this sub. The main reason I am wanting to upgrade is for the XLR outputs of the higher end subs and also for those rare moments when I feel like cranking it for a song or two but not long enough to seriously piss off my neighbors any more than they already are lol.

With your size room, I would think that this sub would be more than enough unless you are trying to rattle your house as well as your neighbors...hope this helps.
post #10522 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace79 View Post

I wouldn't let my report of wanting more output from my PC12-NSD discourage you from thinking it won't be enough for your needs. This thing can really rock!

I second that. Even played at moderate volume (-18 on the receiver with the sub +2) my single PC12-NSD rocks the entire four bedroom detached house* when playing my 96 kHz 24 bit flac of How To Destroy Angels' "Welcome Oblivion" and will put the creature from "Cloverfield" in the room with you. Don't confuse this sub with a weak performer due the the existence of the the larger and more powerful cylinders.

Not that the subject has not been covered adequately here and elsewhere, but placement is critical. I recommend using a riser.

*[Chosen due to its distance from neighbours so that the bass might be set free.]
post #10523 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace79 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

any one think pb1000 be good or pc 12 nsd.. after reading trace 79 couldnt keep up at high volumes.....

talk about anxiety

biggrin.gif

I wouldn't let my report of wanting more output from my PC12-NSD discourage you from thinking it won't be enough for your needs. This thing can really rock! I can't play it even close to it's limits late at night due to noise complaints...but the hours that we ARE allowed to play loud music, I crank it at times and walk out into the hallway and all the way to the end of the hall [think dorm-style living,]...man I'm sure my neighbors hate me lol. There is all kinds of rattling noises coming from the walls and ceiling and I have been visited more than a few times by the girl who lives at the very end of the hall about 60' away to turn it down. Not to mention that I also recently knocked my roommates clock off his wall.

I don't listen to music frequently at these levels and movies certainly not. The low's in most movies are portrayed more than enough with this sub. The main reason I am wanting to upgrade is for the XLR outputs of the higher end subs and also for those rare moments when I feel like cranking it for a song or two but not long enough to seriously piss off my neighbors any more than they already are lol.

With your size room, I would think that this sub would be more than enough unless you are trying to rattle your house as well as your neighbors...hope this helps.

thanks for you input... i would also like to try going fully balanced stereo as well .. im looking at the xpa 1L mono blocks .. to start in that direction.. man maybe i will waite on the sub or subs...
i got a 300 watt rms bash 10 sub now with peak 1200 watts.. i dont know how much better the pc 12 nsd would be hence plus or ultras.. it dont play much lower than my 100s and they do it
better..

thanks Neutro too eh.. pc 12 plus looks like a good over all pic.. if its too much can you turn it down a bit?
post #10524 of 15588
i got the blues breakers pounding the house right now..

cheers and thanks all

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
post #10525 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I haven't used the XLR inputs on my Pluses, but it looks like it's something you're really looking forward to. Your room is not that big... medium-sized at best. So because you need a tad more output and XLR inputs, I think you'd be quite happy with either a Plus or the SB13 Ultra. The difference between the PC12-Plus and PC13-Ultra is about 3 dB more in SPL output, and an added PEQ in the DSP if you need those. It's up to you to decide if the price difference is worth it. The SB13 will provide you a very different form factor, but down close to 20 Hz I think the Plus may have an advantage. Above 40 Hz the SB13 will likely play louder than the Plus.

But the PC12-Plus would fit the bill with XLR inputs and more output while keeping the cylinder form factor. In your room it should be enough for your needs, and if you want to go duals, it will be less expensive to add a second Plus than it would be adding an Ultra.

I think I remember reading that if you cover the ports of the PC12-Ultra you are basically left with a SB13. Is this so? Also, can anyone confirm or show any graphs showing the dB of the PC12-NSD to the PC12+, PC Ultra, and SB13? I'm curious how the SB13 will perform at freqs sub 40Hz. Based on it's superior design I'm hoping that it will still smoke the PC12-NSD in the lower ranges or is there that much of a difference between ported and sealed?

The middle ground does sound like the PC12+ is the way to go for me do to potential upgrades. However, I am so curious to hear what the SB13 has to offer in clarity and output. If there is that much benefit going with a sealed sub for music I just may have to try and go with the SB13.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post


thanks Neutro too eh.. pc 12 plus looks like a good over all pic.. if its too much can you turn it down a bit?

From what I've read and experienced, you can never have too much sub. You can always turn down the gain as well as make other adjustments to suit your needs. I'm sure others here can give a much more detailed response on how to do this.
post #10526 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace79 View Post

can anyone confirm or show any graphs showing the dB of the PC12-NSD to the PC12+, PC Ultra, and SB13?
Data-bass has some that may be of interest smile.gif

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&type=0
post #10527 of 15588
Hello,

I am interested in adding a second subwoofer to my home theater. I think the normal and perhaps best approach is to match the sub. My current sub is a 20-39 (can't recall which version but it was a powered sub and I think it was the smaller amp, 325w?). I have been looking for a used 20-39 since this model is no longer made but that have proven difficult. Do you recommend I continue to look for a used mate or is there a new sub which would work/sound well with my old model?

If it matters, I am adding this to a 14x25' home theater with a 11.1 system. I am using a Denon 4520CI with MultEQ XT32 to calibrate the sound.

Thanks,
T.Wells
post #10528 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace79 View Post

I think I remember reading that if you cover the ports of the PC12-Ultra you are basically left with a SB13. Is this so?

Pretty much, yes. Albeit the sealed PC13-Ultra would still be quite a bit larger than the SB13 biggrin.gif You can also use the Plus models in sealed mode. This was one reason I had to go with the Plus instead of the NSD: variable tuning means you can trade excess output for a deeper extension or also revert to sealed mode if needed (I was coming from an SB12). It turns out I didn't feel the need to even try sealed mode even for music; but it's still reassuring when you buy. Of course, when you buy the SB13, you also buy a nicely finished, very compact box.
Quote:
I'm curious how the SB13 will perform at freqs sub 40Hz. Based on it's superior design I'm hoping that it will still smoke the PC12-NSD in the lower ranges or is there that much of a difference between ported and sealed?

Below 40 Hz there's a rather big difference yes. Here is the frequency response of the SB13-Ultra, taken from SVS's site:



You can see that even with DSP EQing, the SB13's roll-off begins at around 25 Hz. However the roll-off has a gentler slope than the steep roll-off of ported subs, so it can be amplified quite a bit by room gain. Data-bass shows the FR for the Ultra and NSD ported subs for comparison purposes. Note that the graph above does not represent max output, so don't quote the y-axis as the max it can do. Also, at max output, the FR of the SB13 will be different as DSP EQing is used to give it a flatter response. At max output, expect the roll-off to begin at ~45Hz instead of 25Hz.
Quote:
The middle ground does sound like the PC12+ is the way to go for me do to potential upgrades. However, I am so curious to hear what the SB13 has to offer in clarity and output. If there is that much benefit going with a sealed sub for music I just may have to try and go with the SB13.

I'm no audiophile and I can't compare the SB13 and PC12-Plus of course. But here are points to consider: typically the problem with ported subs is that *below* tuning frequency, the enclosure unloads, meaning that the driver has no load (back-pressure) to work against. As seen from the driver, below tuning, it's like it is in free air. So it's harder to control, can distort and if not properly protected, it can also be damaged. All sort of phase issues also arise below tuning point. When the tuning is 35 Hz, it's something to consider. But SVS subs are default tuned to 20 Hz, and the Plus and Ultra can be tuned at 16 Hz, meaning that the distortion and phase issues occur below that -- at frequencies that are in fact inaudible. Unless you can discern distortion and phase issues in rumbles that you feel predominantly in your furniture and floor, it's not much of an issue. So don't let that prevent you from getting a ported SVS sub, which you can seal anyway. The best reasons to get the SB13 is to get that much power in a diminutive and stylish cube instead of in a water-heater or mini-fridge form factor. You'd leave a few dBs on the table but for some, space and looks is an issue.
Quote:
From what I've read and experienced, you can never have too much sub.

This is how we justify our outrageous purchases biggrin.gif It's true in the sense that I don't feel having ULF hot by several dBs degrade the balance of a sound track at all, as those are effects that are quite distinct from music. But on another hand, with dual Pluses in a 1600 cu ft, I definitely have too much sub for my needs in terms of output. But, I wanted to have 1) duals and 2) 16 Hz tuned subs, so the PC12-Plus were the cheapest that fitted the bill (at least in Canada). The fact that I have outrageous output that could probably due structural damage to my house is simply a side-effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MemX View Post

Data-bass has some that may be of interest smile.gif

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&type=0

You can select the PB13-Ultra, the PB12-NSD and the SB12-NSD at Data-bass. The cylinders are equivalent to the PBs. The Plus should be around 3 dB under the Ultra in terms of maximum output. You can compare the shapes of the FR for the PB12-NSD and SB12-NSD to give you an idea of how the PB13-Ultra and SB13-Ultra would compare. Basically they are mostly the same 50 Hz and above. But the PB12-NSD is a whopping 10+ dB louder than the SB12-NSD at 20 Hz (CEA2010 Max Burst).
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Wells View Post

Hello,

I am interested in adding a second subwoofer to my home theater. I think the normal and perhaps best approach is to match the sub. My current sub is a 20-39 (can't recall which version but it was a powered sub and I think it was the smaller amp, 325w?). I have been looking for a used 20-39 since this model is no longer made but that have proven difficult. Do you recommend I continue to look for a used mate or is there a new sub which would work/sound well with my old model?

I'd say the current PB-1000, with its 300-W amp but more sensitive driver should be very similar to your 20-39. Or if you want another cylinder, the PC12-NSD wouldn't be that far. It would be a bit more powerful, so you'd be limited by the 20-39, but it should match relatively well. You should contact SVS about this, they will likely provide you with very interesting advice.
Quote:
If it matters, I am adding this to a 14x25' home theater with a 11.1 system. I am using a Denon 4520CI with MultEQ XT32 to calibrate the sound.

It doesn't, but you've got an awesome setup for sure biggrin.gif The 4520 will calibrate the subs so that they are aligned on the performance of the weaker one (in order to protect it).
post #10529 of 15588
Anyone ever try to face the PB12-PLUS (Sledge amp) to the wall so it is easier to make adjustments from the back?

Since it is such a huge subwoofer to move around every time you want to make adjustment on the LCD screen on the back, I was thinking of facing the 12 inch woofer towards the wall. I am not sure if the PB12-PLUS will sound any good if you put the woofer or driver facing the wall.

It would be so much easier if all subwoofers come with a remote control so you don't have to move it around for some heavy tuning on the back.
post #10530 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Anyone ever try to face the PB12-PLUS (Sledge amp) to the wall so it is easier to make adjustments from the back?

Since it is such a huge subwoofer to move around every time you want to make adjustment on the LCD screen on the back, I was thinking of facing the 12 inch woofer towards the wall. I am not sure if the PB12-PLUS will sound any good if you put the woofer or driver facing the wall.

It would be so much easier if all subwoofers come with a remote control so you don't have to move it around for some heavy tuning on the back.

I totally agree with you. Even with the cylinders, which are much easier to turn around than the PBs, it's a hassle. The Plus should sound fine facing the wall, but it changes its effective location in the room (which is typically given by the driver's center). You would bring the driver closer to a boundary, which may change considerably its in-room frequency response. Not necessarily in a bad way, but I'm pretty sure the changes could be major.

I recently got a MiniDSP 2x4 for EQing the subs. However right now, EQing is performed in my AVR and the MiniDSP is set to "bypass" for all its sub-components. The interesting thing is that I can use it as a splitter by bypassing the HPF and LPF in the crossover block. Then, I can adjust the input level and the two output levels from the MiniDSP. This means that for volume adjustments at least, I can leave the subs alone and simply change the gains in the MiniDSP from my laptop.
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