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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 376

post #11251 of 15702
Hmm does not sound like any driver noise I have ever herd...might see if SVS will swap you amps.
post #11252 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Here is a video of my PB12-Plus making the flapping sounds from the driver. It almost sound like a piece of paper flapping in the wind. Turn up your volume on your PC and you will hear. The noise you are hearing is the driver NOT the 3 port holes.

The movie is Underworld Awakening in blu-ray. The part where Salena first meed the Big Bad Wolf.




Here is another video of my PB-12 Plus making the flapping sounds. This is the same scene from Underworld Awakening in blu-ray.



It sounds like it is at its limits, my PB 12+ does this as well. When I was using my old Yamaha avr it sounded just like that at pretty high volume, around -5 or so. Now that I have a denon 4311 after audyssey it's not nearly as noticeable. I to was worried about it before I got my 4311 and svs sent me a new amp and it still did it. I don't really notice it now tho.
I agree that you should try to isolate it to either one sub at a time or if they both do it together, then you would have a better idea of what's going on.

Also my Yamaha had no room correction
post #11253 of 15702
That's terrible eek.gif What did SVS say ? How long have you had your subs ?
post #11254 of 15702
That sub shouldnt make that noise even at its limits...
post #11255 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

That's terrible eek.gif What did SVS say ? How long have you had your subs ?


I had it for about a month. SVS is in the process of looking into the situation right now. I am curious to what they have to say about the subs.
post #11256 of 15702
Sounds like torn or ripped spider to me. That sucks.
post #11257 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

That sub shouldnt make that noise even at its limits...


At its limit?

I was just warming up. The master volume on the receiver was only at -9 dB when the Pluses started to fall apart. I usually crank up the master volume on the receiver -5 dB or 0 dB.
post #11258 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

I had it for about a month. SVS is in the process of looking into the situation right now. I am curious to what they have to say about the subs.
When did you start noticing the noise. ? Well SVS has top knotch CS so if there's a way to do it they'll take care of you .
post #11259 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

When did you start noticing the noise. ? Well SVS has top knotch CS so if there's a way to do it they'll take care of you .


The first day I had it but I wanted to see if noise would go away if I do some break-in time. I guess the break-in time did not work. LOL
post #11260 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by 06GTOguy View Post

It sounds like it is at its limits, my PB 12+ does this as well. When I was using my old Yamaha avr it sounded just like that at pretty high volume, around -5 or so. Now that I have a denon 4311 after audyssey it's not nearly as noticeable. I to was worried about it before I got my 4311 and svs sent me a new amp and it still did it. I don't really notice it now tho.
I agree that you should try to isolate it to either one sub at a time or if they both do it together, then you would have a better idea of what's going on.

Also my Yamaha had no room correction


I did tried to test one at a time and they both have the same noise issue. It sounds even worse when you have them playing together in dual setup.
post #11261 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 06GTOguy View Post

It sounds like it is at its limits, my PB 12+ does this as well. When I was using my old Yamaha avr it sounded just like that at pretty high volume, around -5 or so. Now that I have a denon 4311 after audyssey it's not nearly as noticeable. I to was worried about it before I got my 4311 and svs sent me a new amp and it still did it. I don't really notice it now tho.
I agree that you should try to isolate it to either one sub at a time or if they both do it together, then you would have a better idea of what's going on.

Also my Yamaha had no room correction


I did tried to test one at a time and they both have the same noise issue. It sounds even worse when you have them playing together in dual setup.
It's strange that BOTH do this. What are the odds of getting 2 subs that do this. I think it may be the avr or the settings
post #11262 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

I did tried to test one at a time and they both have the same noise issue. It sounds even worse when you have them playing together in dual setup.

Is this noise with all sources or just that one movie scene?
post #11263 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Is this noise with all sources or just that one movie scene?
I beleive he mentioned that was during one of the UnderWorld Awakening scenes and that's when he had to turn them down . Thought he mentioned that was the only time it does but not sure .
post #11264 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

I beleive he mentioned that was during one of the UnderWorld Awakening scenes and that's when he had to turn them down . Thought he mentioned that was the only time it does but not sure .

must of missed that part...if thats the case i would say its not the sub.
post #11265 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Do you have the blu-ray movie Underworld Awakening? Put that movie on and skip to the part where Salena FIRST meet the Big Bad Wolf. Start from where Salena is walking up the stairs to meet the Big Bad Wolf. Turn up your Master Volume and listen to the foot stumps from the Big Bad Wolf. Stand about 1 feet away from your subwoofer and you will hear and see the rubber surrounding of the driver flapping like it is going to fall apart.

After I did the MCACC auto calibration, I used the SPL meter and set all the speakers to 75 dB Trim Level and set the subs together at 75 dB at Trim Level. I told Ed Mullen about this matter but he thought the Pioneer receiver was setting the Trim Level too hot. When I did the MCACC auto calibration, I connected Both subs for the auto calibration. I had to turn down the Trim Level within the Pioneer receiver with the SPL meter to about 55 dB in order to get rid of the flapping sounds the drivers was making.

So at this point, I have all the Trim Level of all the speakers to 75 dB but my subs are at around 55 dB. I thought the correct way to do this was to have ALL your speakers and subwoofer(s) at 75 dB with the SPL sound meter. I am still confused why the my 2 subs can not handle at 75 dB without making the flapping sounds around the rubber surrounding.

I usually listen to reference volume (Master Volume of the receiver) which is between -5 dB to 0 dB. The flapping sounds I started hearing was at a low level Master Volume of -15 dB. If I crank up the Master Volume to 0 dB at the scene of the Big Bad Wolf foot stumps, the 2 drivers would for sure get damage.

I set the Volume on Both subs at -14 dB.
Basshead I beleive this is we're he mentioned it about Underworld Awakening .But he'll have to chime in if its the only movie that does it.But Mantaray did mention they've been doing it since day one when I asked him .
post #11266 of 15702
I watched another 5 star Bass movie Battle: Los Angeles yesterday. Again, the Pluses was making the flapping sounds again. Basically, anything with heavy bass will start to make the flapping sounds.

Let me ask you guys this. When you use the SPL sound meter, do you adjust the volume of the Trim Level from the receiver to 75 dB? I mean after you finished the Auto Calibration, do you go back and change the Trim Level of the subwoofer to 75 dB by using the SPL sound meter? If the answer is yes, I think there is something wrong with my Pluses. Right now, the subs are set to about 50 dB and they are still making the flapping noise.

I will let you know when I get a message from SVS.
Edited by mantaraydesign - 8/7/13 at 6:56am
post #11267 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

I did tried to test one at a time and they both have the same noise issue. It sounds even worse when you have them playing together in dual setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 06GTOguy View Post

It's strange that BOTH do this. What are the odds of getting 2 subs that do this. I think it may be the avr or the settings

Indeed. The fact that both subs do the same thing is a relatively strong indicator that this is the "normal" behavior of the Plus when pushed at its limits with very low frequency content. To be clear, Underworld: Awakening is special in that regard, much as Pulse is. (Pulse even comes with a warning sticker saying the audio track can damage A/V equipment).

Mantaray, I may be confusing you with another member, but I thought you had the exact same issue with the exact same movie a few months ago with your first Plus, and that's when you decided to get another Plus. Is that right? If so, I think I remember Ed chiming in saying that the Plus was indeed pushed at its limits, so it was more or less "normal" behavior.

No you may think the you're not listening that loud, but most people don't listen even close to reference levels. So -5 dB from reference is very loud. You also have a large, 5000+ cu ft room, which is way more demanding for your subs than say, my small 1600 cu ft room. Reaching -5 dB from reference in your room demands much more of your subs than reaching -5 dB in my room demands of mine.

But on most content, you won't reach the dual Pluses' limits. You're simply hitting the sub's limits because of the strong sub-20 Hz content in that particular movie. Very few movies have content that strong below 20 Hz. That's why it would be interesting if you could listen to Pulse's server room scene, which is probably even worse than U:A.

As for a remedy for that situation... I think your choices are 1) to lower the volume during such scenes; 2) to upgrade (again!) to much more powerful subs. I'm not sure if you'd even be content with dual Ultras since they will mostly offer the same tuning options and simply 3 dB over your Pluses; or 3) try the 16 Hz tune. The 16 Hz tuning (1 port blocked, 16Hz tune selected on the amp) will lower the max output by only 2 dB above 20 Hz, but may boost by several dBs the capability of your subs around 16 Hz. Try it, you may like it, and it may even solve your problem.
post #11268 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post


Indeed. The fact that both subs do the same thing is a relatively strong indicator that this is the "normal" behavior of the Plus when pushed at its limits with very low frequency content. To be clear, Underworld: Awakening is special in that regard, much as Pulse is. (Pulse even comes with a warning sticker saying the audio track can damage A/V equipment).

Mantaray, I may be confusing you with another member, but I thought you had the exact same issue with the exact same movie a few months ago with your first Plus, and that's when you decided to get another Plus. Is that right? If so, I think I remember Ed chiming in saying that the Plus was indeed pushed at its limits, so it was more or less "normal" behavior.

No you may think the you're not listening that loud, but most people don't listen even close to reference levels. So -5 dB from reference is very loud. You also have a large, 5000+ cu ft room, which is way more demanding for your subs than say, my small 1600 cu ft room. Reaching -5 dB from reference in your room demands much more of your subs than reaching -5 dB in my room demands of mine.

But on most content, you won't reach the dual Pluses' limits. You're simply hitting the sub's limits because of the strong sub-20 Hz content in that particular movie. Very few movies have content that strong below 20 Hz. That's why it would be interesting if you could listen to Pulse's server room scene, which is probably even worse than U:A.

As for a remedy for that situation... I think your choices are 1) to lower the volume during such scenes; 2) to upgrade (again!) to much more powerful subs. I'm not sure if you'd even be content with dual Ultras since they will mostly offer the same tuning options and simply 3 dB over your Pluses; or 3) try the 16 Hz tune. The 16 Hz tuning (1 port blocked, 16Hz tune selected on the amp) will lower the max output by only 2 dB above 20 Hz, but may boost by several dBs the capability of your subs around 16 Hz. Try it, you may like it, and it may even solve your problem.


I will try to 16 Hz tune with 1 port blocked. If it still does not work, I may return these Pluses and try a different brand. I see the PB-13 Ultra model got the same flapping noise issue which I found on YouTube.
post #11269 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

I will try to 16 Hz tune with 1 port blocked. If it still does not work, I may return these Pluses and try a different brand. I see the PB-13 Ultra model got the same flapping noise issue which I found on YouTube.

I wonder if that noise has something to do with the limiter kicking in?
post #11270 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I wonder if that noise has something to do with the limiter kicking in?

No it’s the limiter not kicking in quite early enough. We used to be able to bottom a driver with the old style cs models but since then it’s been much harder with the limiter in affect.. it could still be done on occasion though. Sounds like this is a very tuff scene and since it’s the lower frequencies that’s generally the culprit, maybe the fix is in the mix with the lower tune option.
post #11271 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

I will try to 16 Hz tune with 1 port blocked. If it still does not work, I may return these Pluses and try a different brand. I see the PB-13 Ultra model got the same flapping noise issue which I found on YouTube.

I hope you'll see improvements with the 16 Hz tune. Please report back anyway with the results.

If your goal is reference-level playback with no distortion in for this particular scene in your room, as said previously, I doubt upgrading to Ultras would be sufficient. However, it may be interesting to try if you're still within your 1-year upgrade period.

I think you may need another category of subwoofers completely if the 16 Hz tune is not sufficient.
post #11272 of 15702
Just testing my PB12 + dsp, I put the amp sledge to 0 and lower the LFE channel gain in the AVR so that the result be 75db. So far so good.

With this type of configuration the subwoofer gives rise to these artifacts. In said scene.

On the contrary, if I lower the subwoofer of 0 to -24 (in the amplifier sledge) for the subwoofer level is 75db, the subwoofer operates safely. If I want to put the subwoofer a hot db, you climb into the amplifier (sledge) at -15 and get a 86db calibration, the subwoofer operates at the limit without making noise.

Is it possible to be a global problem with the amplifier input sensitivity sledge and therefore, this giving rise to these noises?

I do not know ... But I have clear that if one wants to operate safely, will have to adjust the subwoofer on its own stage even when one wants to give more power db.

I think that you should very carefully studying SVS.

Does anyone else have it encourages testing to confirm my suspicions?
post #11273 of 15702
Add, this happens both at 20hz mode, 16Hz, as in sealed mode.

Only when it comes to putting the amplifier (sledge) as close to 0 as possible.
Edited by Lecter83 - 8/7/13 at 9:09am
post #11274 of 15702
This sounds like a very demanding scene! I’m going to have to check it out, but at a level I’m more comfortable with.
post #11275 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogrub View Post

You probably started with the settings SVS recommends in the Quick Start Guide, and then adjusted from there as you listened. The original starting positions SVS recommends are:

1. Adjust the gain to half (12 o'clock).

2. Set the Low Pass to disable (all the way to the right).

3. Set the Phase Control to 0 (all the way to the left).

4. Set the Auto On switch to On.

Make sure you didn't hit the power off button back there while you're at it. eek.gif

That should give you a good place to start, and you can fool around with it from there.

My SVS has a Crossover Toggle button to disable or enable. Do I still need to right all the way to the right towards 120 hz?
post #11276 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

Just testing my PB12 + dsp, I put the amp sledge to 0 and lower the LFE channel gain in the AVR so that the result be 75db. So far so good.

With this type of configuration the subwoofer gives rise to these artifacts. In said scene.

On the contrary, if I lower the subwoofer of 0 to -24 (in the amplifier sledge) for the subwoofer level is 75db, the subwoofer operates safely. If I want to put the subwoofer a hot db, you climb into the amplifier (sledge) at -15 and get a 86db calibration, the subwoofer operates at the limit without making noise.

Is it possible to be a global problem with the amplifier input sensitivity sledge and therefore, this giving rise to these noises?

I do not know ... But I have clear that if one wants to operate safely, will have to adjust the subwoofer on its own stage even when one wants to give more power db.

I think that you should very carefully studying SVS.

Does anyone else have it encourages testing to confirm my suspicions?

Wow Lecter, this is awesome testing on your end. I would gladly perform the test if I had the house to myself, but I really don't think this will be possible in the next few days. If the occasion presents itself, I'll do it -- I already have two Pluses with the gain set at 0 dB, and the scene in question at hand.

Ed did mention that 0 dB was the preferred amp setting since it was able to push out more peak power at high gain. Perhaps the peaks it can generate at 0 dB are just too high for the driver to handle. By lowering the gain a bit, maybe the peaks are curbed and the driver behaves more smoothly.

In my case I do run the subs at 0 dB, but to achieve a 75 dB calibration, I must use a MiniDSP to attenuate the sub pre out even more. It is possible that the MiniDSP will affect the signal as it will convert it to digital then to analog again. If the MiniDSP clips the signal, it probably won't cause the sub to make the sounds you're getting.

Still, I think Lecter managed to find the source of the problem.
post #11277 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Wow Lecter, this is awesome testing on your end. I would gladly perform the test if I had the house to myself, but I really don't think this will be possible in the next few days. If the occasion presents itself, I'll do it -- I already have two Pluses with the gain set at 0 dB, and the scene in question at hand.

Ed did mention that 0 dB was the preferred amp setting since it was able to push out more peak power at high gain. Perhaps the peaks it can generate at 0 dB are just too high for the driver to handle. By lowering the gain a bit, maybe the peaks are curbed and the driver behaves more smoothly.

In my case I do run the subs at 0 dB, but to achieve a 75 dB calibration, I must use a MiniDSP to attenuate the sub pre out even more. It is possible that the MiniDSP will affect the signal as it will convert it to digital then to analog again. If the MiniDSP clips the signal, it probably won't cause the sub to make the sounds you're getting.

Still, I think Lecter managed to find the source of the problem.

Thank you very much. biggrin.gif

Certainly if it is able to limit the dsp effectively when "sledge" is in level 0, maybe SVS have to replace or design a new algorithm for protection when operating at this level of configuration.

In any event, if at any time the family leaves your home free. biggrin.gif You can disconnect a PC12 + and connect one and testing.

A hug.
post #11278 of 15702
Back to all users, I apologize if my English is bad. Use translator and can lead to errors in translation.

rolleyes.gif
post #11279 of 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

Certainly if it is able to limit the dsp effectively when "sledge" is in level 0, maybe SVS have to replace or design a new algorithm for protection when operating at this level of configuration.

Well, more importantly I think, you found a workaround. Mantaray should try lowering the gain on his amps and bumping the sub trim level to compensate. This should yield the same calibration level, but limit the peaks.
Quote:
In any event, if at any time the family leaves your home free. biggrin.gif You can disconnect a PC12 + and connect one and testing.

Any supplementary step I take before testing lowers the chances that I perform the test altogether smile.gif Sometimes I only have a few minutes of freedom (e.g. when I come home 5 min before my GF and our daughter, or they're playing outside). Playing with connections may be relatively easy topographically speaking, but in the real world, it's a real hassle biggrin.gif
post #11280 of 15702
Im beginning to wonder if the issue is related to a select few with the new digital amp . I have the bash amps and have never experienced pushing my subs over there limits "Pb13 ultra and Pb12 plus . I have just about every heavy LFE blu ever made lol from War of the Worlds and up ! I've pushed them harder then I normally would with guest during demos and still never saw any signs of pushing them to there limits . Has the drivers changed within the last 4 years ? Again though it seems only a select few are having this issue so maybe not .
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