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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 386

post #11551 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Go for a ported sub if the size of those are acceptable. As advised previously, this will provide you more low-end output, which is super nice for home theater applications. You could also consider dual PB-1000s if you want to experiment with dual subs. This will provide you more output than a single PC12-NSD, but it will also cost more by about $300. That being said, the PC12-NSD is awesome by itself and I for one love the cylinder form factor. Lighter, easy to move around (they can be rolled on their base), and they don't look like your average sub for sure biggrin.gif

Thanks for your input, Neutro. I plan to go the ported route as you suggested. I thought about dual SB or PB-1000's, but I'm not sure where I would put them given our furniture arrangement. That cylinder shape of the PC-12 is pretty attractive. I've been looking at a cube subwoofer that doubles as a side table for quite a while now, and I think a change might do me good!

David

P.S. It looks like SVS may have lowered the price a bit on the PC12-NSD.
Edited by david3772 - 8/26/13 at 7:00am
post #11552 of 15659
So, I've got an old SVS PB2-Plus from back in 2004... The amp is dead (keeps blowing fuses) and I am looking at options to get it working again...

I got ahold of SVS and they do sell a replacement BASH amp for it for $400... is this the best way to go or would getting a rack amp (Crown something or other...) be a better option?

Thanks in advance!
post #11553 of 15659
After played around a bit more over the weekend with my 2nd PB12-Plus, this is what I've got. Currently one sitting at the front in between the center & right speakers. The 2nd one is at the rear left corner. I think this gives me the smoothness response at my main seat (which I was having a null @ 40hz before my acoustic treatment & 2nd sub).



Down to 13hz in room when running at 16hz mode.


20hz mode (16hz in room) vs 16hz mode (13hz in room).


Running them at 16hz mode, they gets down to 13hz in my room. I'm very happy with the result and thinking I'll probably just leave them at 16hz mode since they still provide enough output @ my normal listening level (-15~-10db). What do you guys think? Is there anymore improve I could do?
post #11554 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by david3772 View Post

I've been looking at a cube subwoofer that doubles as a side table for quite a while now, and I think a change might do me good!

Single-driver box-type subs are very tempting coffee tables. But they can vibrate quite a lot, so they do nicely for holding a pile of books or magazine, but watch out for that glass picture frame or the beer bottle. You don't want beer pouring into the venting port smile.gif
Quote:
P.S. It looks like SVS may have lowered the price a bit on the PC12-NSD.

Yes. They're now $700 in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigecb View Post

So, I've got an old SVS PB2-Plus from back in 2004... The amp is dead (keeps blowing fuses) and I am looking at options to get it working again...

Sorry I can't help you much. If you use another amp, you'll lose any DSP correction and limiter that the BASH has, if any. The original amp is 900W RMS... I guess you could find a Crown XLS 1000W amp for about $300 new. Unless you have access to a cheaper, possibly used amp, not sure it would be worth it. That being said, I'm pretty clueless about rack amps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Running them at 16hz mode, they gets down to 13hz in my room. I'm very happy with the result and thinking I'll probably just leave them at 16hz mode since they still provide enough output @ my normal listening level (-15~-10db). What do you guys think? Is there anymore improve I could do?

Very nice! If you have enough headroom, there is no point in using 20 Hz tune IMHO. I'm running dual Pluses in 16 Hz tune too; I have a MiniDSP and used it to add a low-pass shelf filter to add a gentle house curve, which begins raising below 30-35 Hz and brings 20 Hz about 6 dB hotter than 80 hz. I like what it does a lot -- more physicality in the LFE without wrecking the balance above 40 Hz where music is concerned. Now the peak response in my room is about 17 Hz.
post #11555 of 15659
My new PC12+ impression after getting to watch a 5 star rate bass movie- Percy Jackson The Lightening Thief-

Damn! I was missing a LOT before. The sub was incredible, so many good things about it.

My room is 13W 14L 9H. 4 seat sofa about 3.5 ft off the back wall which puts the LPs at 4' off the back wall. Room can be sealed off via 2 pocket doors, this is how it was for the movie. I have the sub tight in the front right corner which works really well there. I get a nice even response across all positions on the sofa (by ear).

AVR set to -2b, sub was set to -13db, 16hz tune.

First thing I noticed was how clean the bass was. So much of what I thought before was bass was just noise. My other (former) sub was so loud at points that it would drown out the dialogue yet still wasn't producing the bass I wanted.

With the PC it was producing all the pressure and tactile feel I wanted but yet never drowned out the dialogue or effects coming from the speakers, even though they are only the small NHT SuperZeros (next upgrade).

So much is made about a sub's ability to produce volume and create pressure for HT use, but to me how clean and distortion free the bass was at really high levels (in my room) was even more impressive to me.

I didn't get to listen to music at higher volumes but I can tell just from listening to some Pandora at -42 to -46db how articulate the sub is. I could hear (for the first time) every bass guitar note played. Nothing droned on like before. I thought my former sub did all right with music, I was wrong. Not even close.

I'm so happy that I decided to take a chance and get one of the major ID brand subs and even more happy that I paid a little more and got an SVS. The clean, flat, yet still incredibly powerful response is more than worth the price.

I would say to anyone on the fence about getting a good sub- DO IT! You won't believe what you're missing.

And it gets even better. Customer service with SVS was beyond reproach. Phones answered promptly, email responded to seemingly immediately, questions answered, etc... and most of the time by the owner, Ed.

The only regret I have is not getting one sooner.
post #11556 of 15659
^^^ Ausome! Congrats on your new 12+, it’s a great SW.
post #11557 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVjiOrjQ6oM

SVS SB13-Ultra grill fail! Bad idea to remove the magnets.

eek.gif

What are you going to do about this? Have you talked to SVS about the grille flowing off?
post #11558 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by South Park View Post

What are you going to do about this? Have you talked to SVS about the grille flowing off?
eek.gif
Hi, not my subwoofer. I found the video online and saw fit to teach in the forum.

I have a PB12 + dsp (with magnets no problems). biggrin.gif
post #11559 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Running them at 16hz mode, they gets down to 13hz in my room. I'm very happy with the result and thinking I'll probably just leave them at 16hz mode since they still provide enough output @ my normal listening level (-15~-10db). What do you guys think? Is there anymore improve I could do?

With that frequency response? About the only thing you have left to do is go enjoy them... smile.gif
post #11560 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

With that frequency response? About the only thing you have left to do is go enjoy them... smile.gif

+1 ... sometimes I forget that part.
post #11561 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Very nice! If you have enough headroom, there is no point in using 20 Hz tune IMHO. I'm running dual Pluses in 16 Hz tune too; I have a MiniDSP and used it to add a low-pass shelf filter to add a gentle house curve, which begins raising below 30-35 Hz and brings 20 Hz about 6 dB hotter than 80 hz. I like what it does a lot -- more physicality in the LFE without wrecking the balance above 40 Hz where music is concerned. Now the peak response in my room is about 17 Hz.
Someone had also suggested that I look into a MiniDSP setup to add a gentle house curve for the low end. I'll look into it later on. Is it hard to setup/apply? Is the MiniDSP fit in between the AVR & the sub? And I use a PC or something else to adjust the EQ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

With that frequency response? About the only thing you have left to do is go enjoy them... smile.gif
Sure I do. Thanks. wink.gif
post #11562 of 15659
I am wondering why SVS does not make subwoofers in the 15 inch or an 18 inch driver?

Maybe they are in the process of making some 15 inch and 18 inch drivers.
post #11563 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Someone had also suggested that I look into a MiniDSP setup to add a gentle house curve for the low end. I'll look into it later on. Is it hard to setup/apply? Is the MiniDSP fit in between the AVR & the sub? And I use a PC or something else to adjust the EQ?

(EDIT: Indeed, the MiniDSP fits between the AVR and sub(s).)

The MiniDSP is a small DSP (well, duh!) that can serve different purposes depending on the firmware loaded. MiniDSP (the company) sells "plugins" for $10, that are really firmware that can be loaded (one at a time) to the MiniDSP. Typical usages are electronic crossovers and equalization. The cheapest MiniDSP device is the 2x4 (which has 2 inputs and 4 outputs), and costs $125 plus shipping, plus the plug-in. With one sub pre out and two subs, the MiniDSP 2x4 can be used as a splitter, using one input and two outputs.

For EQing subwoofers, it's pretty much the cheapest and easiest of the "manual" methods (i.e. it can EQ, but you have to provide the filter parameters via REW or another external method; by opposition to, say, the Antimode 8033, which also takes a measurement and automatically EQs the result). Configuration is done by connecting the unit to a PC and launching an AdobeAir application. The app is cute and clear, and once in sync with the MiniDSP, any modification is taken into account "live", so you can test the settings and immediately hear what the effect is.

However if you want to, say, suppress a peak or set up a series of parametric filters, the recommended path is to take frequency response measurements using REW. REW can then compute the filter parameters to get a given target curve, and load them unto the MiniDSP. Using REW is relatively easy, but still has a non-negligible learning curve. While it is not technically part of the MiniDSP, using the two together is an order of magnitude more complex than just fiddling with the MiniDSP alone.

EQing with the MiniDSP is also not really required if you already have a relatively flat frequency response as you happen to have. The same in my case: my receiver uses Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and manages to provide an acceptably flat frequency response.

So I mainly use the MiniDSP to add the above-mentioned house curve to the otherwise flat frequency response, and also to manage levels for the two subs. Due to it having variable attenuation at each input and output, the MiniDSP can be used to level-match the subs very easily, with both sub gains set to the recommended max level (0dB) and the AVR sub level at a comfortable 0dB trim. The house curve is super easy to dial in: it's a single filter, and playing with the cutoff frequency and Q-factor live allows to run the subs hot in the very low frequency range without affecting balance in mid-bass and to try different house curves in a pinch.

In short, if you have about $150 to spare, it's a great toy to have with dual subs.
Edited by neutro - 8/27/13 at 11:32am
post #11564 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

I am wondering why SVS does not make subwoofers in the 15 inch or an 18 inch driver?

Maybe they are in the process of making some 15 inch and 18 inch drivers.

Well SVS had plans for the SB16-Ultra. But the costs were too high and they cancelled that product. Lecter posted great pics right here.
post #11565 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

(EDIT: Indeed, the MiniDSP fits between the AVR and sub(s).)

The MiniDSP is a small DSP (well, duh!) that can serve different purposes depending on the firmware loaded. MiniDSP (the company) sells "plugins" for $10, that are really firmware that can be loaded (one at a time) to the MiniDSP. Typical usages are electronic crossovers and equalization. The cheapest MiniDSP device is the 2x4 (which has 2 inputs and 4 outputs), and costs $125 plus shipping, plus the plug-in. With one sub pre out and two subs, the MiniDSP 2x4 can be used as a splitter, using one input and two outputs.

For EQing subwoofers, it's pretty much the cheapest and easiest of the "manual" methods (i.e. it can EQ, but you have to provide the filter parameters via REW or another external method; by opposition to, say, the Antimode 8033, which also takes a measurement and automatically EQs the result). Configuration is done by connecting the unit to a PC and launching an AdobeAir application. The app is cute and clear, and once in sync with the MiniDSP, any modification is taken into account "live", so you can test the settings and immediately hear what the effect is.

However if you want to, say, suppress a peak or set up a series of parametric filters, the recommended path is to take frequency response measurements using REW. REW can then compute the filter parameters to get a given target curve, and load them unto the MiniDSP. Using REW is relatively easy, but still has a non-negligible learning curve. While it is not technically part of the MiniDSP, using the two together is an order of magnitude more complex than just fiddling with the MiniDSP alone.

EQing with the MiniDSP is also not really required if you already have a relatively flat frequency response as you happen to have. The same in my case: my receiver uses Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and manages to provide an acceptably flat frequency response.

So I mainly use the MiniDSP to add the above-mentioned house curve to the otherwise flat frequency response, and also to manage levels for the two subs. Due to it having variable attenuation at each input and output, the MiniDSP can be used to level-match the subs very easily, with both sub gains set to the recommended max level (0dB) and the AVR sub level at a comfortable 0dB trim. The house curve is super easy to dial in: it's a single filter, and playing with the cutoff frequency and Q-factor live allows to run the subs hot in the very low frequency range without affecting balance in mid-bass and to try different house curves in a pinch.

In short, if you have about $150 to spare, it's a great toy to have with dual subs.
Thanks for the detail reply neutro! I'll take a look at it. Yeah, the main reason if I'll get the MiniDSP is for the house curve boost at the low end. I already has Audyssey XT32 + sub EQ in my AVR thus given me such a flat response.
post #11566 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Thanks for the detail reply neutro! I'll take a look at it. Yeah, the main reason if I'll get the MiniDSP is for the house curve boost at the low end. I already has Audyssey XT32 + sub EQ in my AVR thus given me such a flat response.

It would have been much easier if Audyssey allowed tweaking the target curve... But I'm pretty confident the MiniDSP is the easiest and cheapest way to just add a house curve to an otherwise flat frequency response. I think I saw people use graphic equalizers such as the Behringer Ultracurve DEQ2496, but it is more expensive, and I'm not sure it can EQ as low as the MiniDSP (10 Hz). When you already have a flexible EQ solution (e.g. one that can target an arbitrary response), then you can include the house curve in the target response. But one of the cheapest way to achieve that is also using the MiniDSP biggrin.gif

I'd be interested to know if any other device can add a house curve to the sub signal down below 20Hz for less than a MiniDSP. I can't think of any except maybe a Behringer DSP1124P (aka BFD), but I can guarantee you that the ease of use of the MiniDSP is worth the few bucks more you'd pay.

Having Sub EQ HT, you probably won't need the level and delay/distance adjustments that the MiniDSP also offers. But it's interesting for those like me who have receivers with Audyssey MultEQ XT/XT32 but no Sub EQ HT.

The house curve is certainly not vital in the big scheme of things, however I find just running the subs hot is a bit tiring. What boosting sub-40 Hz frequency does is mainly adding to the physicality and tactile feelings in deep rumbles, while leaving the musical range mostly intact. Note that if you use Audyssey DynamicEQ, at low volumes, the bass will already be boosted by several dBs. You may want to take this into account too. Most people who add a house curve, I think, aim for a DynamicEQ-like curve, so that bass is more prominent at medium levels.
post #11567 of 15659
I purchased a MiniDSP but I haven't thrown it in the mix yet.

Is there any point of running Audyssey after eq'ing with the MiniDSP? Would Audyssey flatten the house curve? I don't find myself every using Dynamic EQ or Vol, and I bypass the mains, so should I bother with Audyssey at all after EQ'ing?

I'm running dual SB12's, dual DIY 18's, and I plan to use a house curve as well.
post #11568 of 15659


My new little darlings
post #11569 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by movies2090 View Post



My new little darlings

Are those SB12-NSD?

If so how do you like them? How big of a room do you have and what did you upgrade from?

smile.gif
post #11570 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

Are those SB12-NSD?

If so how do you like them? How big of a room do you have and what did you upgrade from?

smile.gif

Ive had em for about 3 hours so much more time needed yet to determine how they will be once they are fully set up. But right now, I love em. I can actually move em around since, which hefty, are way lighter than what I came from. I came from Dual EpiK Empires. Much much bigger subs. So far these are close to output just don't quite go as low, but I'll take the extra room since I'm now in a condo from a house. My room is 16 x 14 x 8.5 ft ceilings and it is open to the left of the home theater. I listen at moderate levels so I run em a bit hot right now but I really like em.
post #11571 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by movies2090 View Post

Ive had em for about 3 hours so much more time needed yet to determine how they will be once they are fully set up. But right now, I love em. I can actually move em around since, which hefty, are way lighter than what I came from. I came from Dual EpiK Empires. Much much bigger subs. So far these are close to output just don't quite go as low, but I'll take the extra room since I'm now in a condo from a house. My room is 16 x 14 x 8.5 ft ceilings and it is open to the left of the home theater. I listen at moderate levels so I run em a bit hot right now but I really like em.

Thanks for the reply, I love the design of those but am not sure if they'll have enough output for me. They have such a great aesthetic
post #11572 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanglo View Post

I purchased a MiniDSP but I haven't thrown it in the mix yet.

Is there any point of running Audyssey after eq'ing with the MiniDSP? Would Audyssey flatten the house curve? I don't find myself every using Dynamic EQ or Vol, and I bypass the mains, so should I bother with Audyssey at all after EQ'ing?

I'm running dual SB12's, dual DIY 18's, and I plan to use a house curve as well.

Well Audyssey is really useful since it will provide a flat FR for the whole spectral range. Alas as far as I know, it's not possible to tell Audyssey to not bother with the sub.

So the way to do it is to first let Audyssey do its thing, and then afterward integrate the MiniDSP to fine-tune if needed. In my case, I didn't even bother to further smooth the FR after Audyssey -- Audyssey MultEQ XT32 averages 8 listening positions, and I'm not willing to do the equivalent work in REW biggrin.gif Anyway, I'm happy with how flat a FR Audyssey gets me in the sub frequencies. Fine-tuning with the MiniDSP can be as simple as simply adding a single biquad low-pass shelf filter to bump the lower frequencies.

Note that to run Audyssey again afterwards, the MiniDSP should be bypassed. This can be done internally by clicking on the bypass button on each of the plugin filter blocks. This is the preferred method if you still want the MiniDSP in the loop to adjust levels and delays.

If anyone is interested I can post more details (perhaps in a dedicated thread) on how to use the MiniDSP to facilitate the integration of dual subs and to add a simple house curve.
post #11573 of 15659
I am planning on getting the pb-1000 as a second subwoofer. My system is a KEF KHT3005 with the Htb2 subwoofer with a yamaha 673. 15x20 room used for HT and music 50/50. Any comments or caveats before I pull the trigger?
post #11574 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by anezthetik View Post

I am planning on getting the pb-1000 as a second subwoofer. My system is a KEF KHT3005 with the Htb2 subwoofer with a yamaha 673. 15x20 room used for HT and music 50/50. Any comments or caveats before I pull the trigger?
Yeah scrap the Htb2 and buy 2 PB-1000's:D
post #11575 of 15659
guys i have a question... if i put three diferents subwwofer, i.e

pb12-nsd
xv15
vtf3-mk3

at the same volume (-10 in the avr) and in the same room with the same avr and speakers, they sound with the same overall output at that volume level? the difference will be noticeable up to 0db?
Edited by banyar - 8/28/13 at 7:41am
post #11576 of 15659
The HTB2 as a 250W RMS amp and a 10-inc driver that is not too far from the PB-1000's own, in principle. However it's rated down to 30 Hz whereas the PB-1000 will dig down below 20 Hz. Integrating those two may prove a tad difficult because of this if you want to have a flat frequency response down to 20 Hz. It may also have a bit of trouble keeping up with the PB-1000 depending on your listening habits. Try it and tell us what you think!
post #11577 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by banyar View Post

guys i have a question... if i put three diferents subwwofer, i.e

pb12-nsd
xv15
vtf3-mk3

at the same volume (-10 in the avr) and in the same room with the same avr and speakers, they sound with the same overall output at that volume level? the difference will be noticeable up to 0db?

Assuming you calibrate their gain (volume) to the same level, they should sound pretty similar. The differences will be relatively small and mostly related to a few Hz in low-end extension, max output capabilities, and perhaps distortion at higher levels.
post #11578 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by tang7969 View Post

Yeah scrap the Htb2 and buy 2 PB-1000's:D

Wouldn't it be better to "trade up" to the pb-12 in a few months? ie, is one pb-12 > than 2 pb-1000?
post #11579 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

The HTB2 as a 250W RMS amp and a 10-inc driver that is not too far from the PB-1000's own, in principle. However it's rated down to 30 Hz whereas the PB-1000 will dig down below 20 Hz. Integrating those two may prove a tad difficult because of this if you want to have a flat frequency response down to 20 Hz. It may also have a bit of trouble keeping up with the PB-1000 depending on your listening habits. Try it and tell us what you think!

The Htb2 is not nearly as good as those specs dictate, or anywhere near the quality of other KEF products (including other subs). I am hoping that the pb1000 can provide support at lower frequencies, so I am not looking for a flat frequency response down to 20, I want the pb-1000 to provide low and mid-bass support.
post #11580 of 15659
Quote:
Originally Posted by anezthetik View Post

Wouldn't it be better to "trade up" to the pb-12 in a few months? ie, is one pb-12 > than 2 pb-1000?

No -- two PB-1000s will have a bit more output than a single PB12-NSD, and would have the benefit of dual subs: smoother frequency response and bass distribution across the room. You'd get a 5% repeat customer discount on the second one.

However if you were talking about the PB12-Plus, then it's another story rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by anezthetik View Post

The Htb2 is not nearly as good as those specs dictate, or anywhere near the quality of other KEF products (including other subs). I am hoping that the pb1000 can provide support at lower frequencies, so I am not looking for a flat frequency response down to 20, I want the pb-1000 to provide low and mid-bass support.

Well in that case, I suggest you try the PB-1000 alone and with the HTB2. You may find that the HTB2 limits your setup. I see the MSRP for the HTB2 was quite high. Could you sell it to a KEF enthusiast for enough money to cover the price of another PB-1000? If so, that could be a very interesting option. Anyway, first step is to try the PB-1000!
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