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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 397

post #11881 of 15596
If one removes a carpet, should I re-run the audyssey to correct the audio/bass?

Are there more people with Audyssey XT32 that needs to run the gain on the SVS sub (PC12) awfully low to hit 75dB?
post #11882 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesslan1 View Post

If one removes a carpet, should I re-run the audyssey to correct the audio/bass?

Are there more people with Audyssey XT32 that needs to run the gain on the SVS sub (PC12) awfully low to hit 75dB?

Carpeting doesn't have much of an effect on the bass region; it's too thin to absorb bass frequencies. It can definitely affect the mids/highs though. So re-run Audyssey for that reason if you remove the carpeting.

If your gain seems really low to hit the 75 dB level match step in XT32, there could be a standing wave peak which is biasing the reading at that particular mic location. I recommend checking a few mic locations to see if the required gain setting to hit 75 dB changes appreciably. If not, it could just be a smaller room with the sub close to the LP.

You can always double-check with an SPL meter (C/Slow) post-Audyssey. A C-weighted SPL meter will read about 2-3 dB low on the rumble tone - so if 75 dB is the target SPL, then 72-73 dB on the meter is about right.
post #11883 of 15596
I called SVS and after some troubleshooting it appears the driver is dead. Very odd since I have never seen a driver just stop working. I have seen them start to sound bad and blow, but never just die altogether.

Anyway, i need a replacement and SVS wants $300 for a new driver. I was thinking of saving a bit of money and going with this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-512

Since it is dual 2ohm voice coils I can get a final impedance of 4ohms.
Does anyone know if the 525w bash amp in the 20-39 pc plus is rated for 4ohms or should I only use an 8ohm driver?
Also would this be a good replacement?
post #11884 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfreeman420 View Post

I called SVS and after some troubleshooting it appears the driver is dead. Very odd since I have never seen a driver just stop working. I have seen them start to sound bad and blow, but never just die altogether.

Anyway, i need a replacement and SVS wants $300 for a new driver. I was thinking of saving a bit of money and going with this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-512

Since it is dual 2ohm voice coils I can get a final impedance of 4ohms.
Does anyone know if the 525w bash amp in the 20-39 pc plus is rated for 4ohms or should I only use an 8ohm driver?
Also would this be a good replacement?

The BASH 525W platform is rated for 4 ohms nominal.

From a physical fitment standpoint, the cabinet or end-cap mortise OD, ID and screw pattern (particularly if the mortise has threaded inserts for machine screws) need to match the woofer basket.

From a system performance standpoint, the EQ filter boards in the BASH amp are matched to the T/S parameters of the OE driver, so that woofer may not work optimally with the amp filter set.
post #11885 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfreeman420 View Post

I called SVS and after some troubleshooting it appears the driver is dead. Very odd since I have never seen a driver just stop working. I have seen them start to sound bad and blow, but never just die altogether.

Anyway, i need a replacement and SVS wants $300 for a new driver. I was thinking of saving a bit of money and going with this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-512

Since it is dual 2ohm voice coils I can get a final impedance of 4ohms.
Does anyone know if the 525w bash amp in the 20-39 pc plus is rated for 4ohms or should I only use an 8ohm driver?
Also would this be a good replacement?

What version of the Plus woofer do you have in your 20-39 PC-Plus? 12.1 and 12.2 have a stamped steel basket. 12.3 is a cast aluminum basket.
post #11886 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesslan1 View Post

If one removes a carpet, should I re-run the audyssey to correct the audio/bass?

Are there more people with Audyssey XT32 that needs to run the gain on the SVS sub (PC12) awfully low to hit 75dB?

I recently changed from a Denon 3808 with XT to a Denon X4000 with XT32. Nothing, as in zero, else was changed, including measuring positions and furniture, strictly an AVR swap. Forget the sub type but SVS of course, the large cylindrical one (PC13??*). Anyway, I found that XT32 required a 14-15dB lower input setting on the sub to get the same Audyssey trim (which is 0dB...why not?). I am running this sub at -27 input level. Also, using the Sub EQ HT level screen thing to set sub input level for 75dB also resulted in a significant (and poor) Audyssey sub trim of like -8dB. So that 75dB level set part is clearly lousy to start with. Similar results with a spare non-SVS sub in a different position.

So, either the XT32 implementation in this AVR puts out a significantly higher sub level than the XT AVR did, or the XT32 implementation is "broken" re subs. It seems to be working VERY well in the non-sub range; I haven't tried to prove the sub range yet, only had the AVR installed for several days and the little I've watched has little bass and no LFE.

*Edit: d'oh, it is a PB13-Ultra. That's what it says anyway, I thought the cylinders had a C in them...
Edited by cfraser - 10/16/13 at 11:41am
post #11887 of 15596
If it's a cylinder it's a PC13-Ultra wink.gif Maybe the amp says PB-13?

Another thing that can change between different receivers is the sub pre out voltage level at 0 dB trim. This is not the same for all AVRs. I would have thought it would be the same between two high-end Denons but who knows. This may be specified in the detailed specs at the end of the manuals for either AVRs.

BTW, how do you like the X4000? I just bought an Onkyo 818 but I may jump to the X4000 if Black Friday, Boxing Day or another Sales Day produce a significant discount...
post #11888 of 15596
^ I asked about the sub name when I got it, but forget now. The only place the name and S/N is is on the amp. IIRC it may have been an early one, IIRC the box and everything else says PB13-Ultra too (it's in the basement, but hard to get at at this point lol).

It is only the sub trim that changed between XT32 and XT, with the noted AVR change. All the others (7 speakers) are within 0.5dB. -> surprised me

The X4000 is OK so far. The XT32 is the only reason why I bought it, because the X4000 is a large step down build quality-wise from the 3808 (no comparison, and there are much better-built Denons than the 3808...OK, there were...). But the XT32 is a very large and immediately noticeable improvement over XT, even though I've only used it a bit, but SQ I notice. I only watch movies via my AVR normally, I have external amps, and I rarely physically touch the AVR, so some aspects of the X4000 don't matter to me much. But this XT32 sounds good enough that I'm going to try my mch music too now.
post #11889 of 15596
Thanks for your replies ED.
I spoke to jack and went ahead and ordered the replacement woofer. I figured I shouldn't be cheap and just get the OEM for the same reason I bought SVS in the first place.
The guys at SVS have been great. The customer service for someone that has a sub way out of warranty has been impeccable, much better than I have ever received from any other company.
Thanks again.
post #11890 of 15596
Just finished setting up my new PC12-nsd.................WOW!!! this thing is amazing! There really is no substitute for an audiophile grade sub. I've had 2 subs before this and until now I didn't realize that it was just muddy, boomy bass. Now it hits me in the chest and rumbles. One of the best home theater purchases I've made. sorry to rant, just really excited about this thing. Works great in our little room. Another extremely satisfied SVS customer.
post #11891 of 15596
Great you've seen the light , congrats !!
post #11892 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfreeman420 View Post

Thanks for your replies ED.
I spoke to jack and went ahead and ordered the replacement woofer. I figured I shouldn't be cheap and just get the OEM for the same reason I bought SVS in the first place.
The guys at SVS have been great. The customer service for someone that has a sub way out of warranty has been impeccable, much better than I have ever received from any other company.
Thanks again.

I saw your note come through and you had a 12.1 or 12.2 woofer with the stamped steel basket. We have a drop in replacement which uses the identical basket, and we were able to save you some money because that basket costs less than the cast 12.3 basket. I also authorized Jack to give you a discount to get you very close to the PE driver. This way the cost is basically a wash and you get the right driver for your subwoofer. cool.gif
post #11893 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

I recently changed from a Denon 3808 with XT to a Denon X4000 with XT32. Nothing, as in zero, else was changed, including measuring positions and furniture, strictly an AVR swap. Forget the sub type but SVS of course, the large cylindrical one (PC13??*). Anyway, I found that XT32 required a 14-15dB lower input setting on the sub to get the same Audyssey trim (which is 0dB...why not?). I am running this sub at -27 input level. Also, using the Sub EQ HT level screen thing to set sub input level for 75dB also resulted in a significant (and poor) Audyssey sub trim of like -8dB. So that 75dB level set part is clearly lousy to start with. Similar results with a spare non-SVS sub in a different position.

So, either the XT32 implementation in this AVR puts out a significantly higher sub level than the XT AVR did, or the XT32 implementation is "broken" re subs. It seems to be working VERY well in the non-sub range; I haven't tried to prove the sub range yet, only had the AVR installed for several days and the little I've watched has little bass and no LFE.

*Edit: d'oh, it is a PB13-Ultra. That's what it says anyway, I thought the cylinders had a C in them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

^ I asked about the sub name when I got it, but forget now. The only place the name and S/N is is on the amp. IIRC it may have been an early one, IIRC the box and everything else says PB13-Ultra too (it's in the basement, but hard to get at at this point lol).

It is only the sub trim that changed between XT32 and XT, with the noted AVR change. All the others (7 speakers) are within 0.5dB. -> surprised me

The X4000 is OK so far. The XT32 is the only reason why I bought it, because the X4000 is a large step down build quality-wise from the 3808 (no comparison, and there are much better-built Denons than the 3808...OK, there were...). But the XT32 is a very large and immediately noticeable improvement over XT, even though I've only used it a bit, but SQ I notice. I only watch movies via my AVR normally, I have external amps, and I rarely physically touch the AVR, so some aspects of the X4000 don't matter to me much. But this XT32 sounds good enough that I'm going to try my mch music too now.

We've been seeing the same comments from other XT32 users. We actually prefer the sub channel level in the negative range (it optimizes the subwoofer amp gain setting to the extent possible at the target calibration level and it also keeps the AVR signal clean/unclipped). But a 14-15 dB downward gain adjustment going from XT to XT32 is very significant. That would mean the voltage level from the AVR sub out is much stronger than your previous AVR. Or it could mean - as you state - there is a bug present in the calibration firmware.

I recommend double checking the channel levels with an SPL meter set to C/Slow, at the listening position, at head level, pointed at the front stage and tilted upward toward the ceiling at a 45 degree angle. All of the speakers should check in at/near 75 dB on the test tones. The subwoofer should read ~2 dB lower than the average speaker level, due to the C-weighted filter in the SPL meter.
post #11894 of 15596
Looking at some measurement data, it seems like the current PB12-NSD is outperforming the old PB12-Ultra. Am I reading this right?
post #11895 of 15596
I am looking for a bit of advice from which some of you may find rediculous, but bare with me, it's a sickness! I am considering adding a sub or two to my 2 ch system which consists of:

Anthony Gallo Ref 3.5
Anthony Gallo SA amp
Simaudio i7 amp
Simaudio Supernova CDP
Bryston BDA-1 DAC
Mac Mini as a music server
Stello U3 digital interface
DSPeaker Anti-Mode Duial 2.0 Room Correction Processor

My room is very long and narrow at 33ft x 10.5ft with my system facing the long direction. I sit roughly 10 ft from my system. The room is acoustically treated and I also have the DSPeaker to also help with the room.

Although the 3.5's have remarkebly good bass, I am always seeking a bit better and have been looking at a few different subs to reinforce the low end. Because the room is so narrow, I would want to go with a compact sub. I was highly favoring going with one Velodyne DD10+, but I am somewhat interested in possibly two SVS SB12-NSD subs as well which I could get for less than one of the Velodynes. Other subs I've considered are the JL Audio Fathom 112, the SVS SB13-Ultra, but they are just too large.

Does anyone have experience using the NSD's with 3.5's or other full range speakers?
post #11896 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norske View Post

Just finished setting up my new PC12-nsd.................WOW!!! this thing is amazing! There really is no substitute for an audiophile grade sub. I've had 2 subs before this and until now I didn't realize that it was just muddy, boomy bass. Now it hits me in the chest and rumbles. One of the best home theater purchases I've made. sorry to rant, just really excited about this thing. Works great in our little room. Another extremely satisfied SVS customer.

+1

My experience was like yours. I thought I had s subwoofer before, but the PC12 is a whole different animal. I love the look, too.
post #11897 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE View Post

Looking at some measurement data, it seems like the current PB12-NSD is outperforming the old PB12-Ultra. Am I reading this right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE View Post

Looking at some measurement data, it seems like the current PB12-NSD is outperforming the old PB12-Ultra. Am I reading this right?

At that point exactly?
In theory I know the measurements of the PB12-Ultra are only to first symptom of compression, but never to the maximum output.

Possibly you have a mistaken understanding of what you are reading. smile.gif
post #11898 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

Although the 3.5's have remarkebly good bass, I am always seeking a bit better and have been looking at a few different subs to reinforce the low end. Because the room is so narrow, I would want to go with a compact sub. I was highly favoring going with one Velodyne DD10+, but I am somewhat interested in possibly two SVS SB12-NSD subs as well which I could get for less than one of the Velodynes. Other subs I've considered are the JL Audio Fathom 112, the SVS SB13-Ultra, but they are just too large.

If something like an SB13U is too large then you would be hard pressed to do better than a pair of SB12's. About the only comparable option that springs to mind is dual F12's.
post #11899 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

I saw your note come through and you had a 12.1 or 12.2 woofer with the stamped steel basket. We have a drop in replacement which uses the identical basket, and we were able to save you some money because that basket costs less than the cast 12.3 basket. I also authorized Jack to give you a discount to get you very close to the PE driver. This way the cost is basically a wash and you get the right driver for your subwoofer. cool.gif

Customer service like this is hard to find anymore. This is the reason you guys have such a dedicated client base. It also does not not hurt that you guys make fabulous subs I have two and would not hesitate to buy another if I needed another sub.

Thank you on behalf of all your satisfied and happy customers.

Cal68
post #11900 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

I am looking for a bit of advice from which some of you may find rediculous, but bare with me, it's a sickness! I am considering adding a sub or two to my 2 ch system which consists of:

Anthony Gallo Ref 3.5
Anthony Gallo SA amp
Simaudio i7 amp
Simaudio Supernova CDP
Bryston BDA-1 DAC
Mac Mini as a music server
Stello U3 digital interface
DSPeaker Anti-Mode Duial 2.0 Room Correction Processor

My room is very long and narrow at 33ft x 10.5ft with my system facing the long direction. I sit roughly 10 ft from my system. The room is acoustically treated and I also have the DSPeaker to also help with the room.

Although the 3.5's have remarkebly good bass, I am always seeking a bit better and have been looking at a few different subs to reinforce the low end. Because the room is so narrow, I would want to go with a compact sub. I was highly favoring going with one Velodyne DD10+, but I am somewhat interested in possibly two SVS SB12-NSD subs as well which I could get for less than one of the Velodynes. Other subs I've considered are the JL Audio Fathom 112, the SVS SB13-Ultra, but they are just too large.

Does anyone have experience using the NSD's with 3.5's or other full range speakers?

If your floor space is limited, get a cylinder. I love mine!
post #11901 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

If your floor space is limited, get a cylinder. I love mine!

I would, but I want to go with a sealed unit where it is a music system.
post #11902 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

If something like an SB13U is too large then you would be hard pressed to do better than a pair of SB12's. About the only comparable option that springs to mind is dual F12's.

The F12 is getting a bit too large for my space as well. I wouldn't want to go any larger than the SB12's, but hard pressed to find anything equal or smaller that is of similar performance without spending a great deal more.
post #11903 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

I would, but I want to go with a sealed unit where it is a music system.

You can always tune a cylinder to Sealed Mode.
post #11904 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

You can always tune a cylinder to Sealed Mode.

Yes but only for the more expensive 12+ and Ultra models. I don't think the OP want to spend that much. Although a single PC12+ is less than 2 SB12s.
post #11905 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Yes but only for the more expensive 12+ and Ultra models. I don't think the OP want to spend that much. Although a single PC12+ is less than 2 SB12s.

I believe it is well documented that a dual sub setup is superior to a single sub for smoothing out the response and output levels. Money is not really the deciding factor, although if I can get quality sound for less coin, all the better. My constraint is room. I can easily place two smaller subs, but would have much difficulty with a single large sub.
post #11906 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

I believe it is well documented that a dual sub setup is superior to a single sub for smoothing out the response and output levels. Money is not really the deciding factor, although if I can get quality sound for less coin, all the better. My constraint is room. I can easily place two smaller subs, but would have much difficulty with a single large sub.

My PC has a 16.5" footprint. Can't get much smaller than that without going HTIB.
post #11907 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

My PC has a 16.5" footprint. Can't get much smaller than that without going HTIB.

There are several high quality subs smaller than that. One that I'm considering is Velodynes DD10+ which is 13" wide x 14.2" high x 16" deep and goes to 18 Hz +/-3 dB.

SVS's own SB12-NDS is smaller as well, although I would go with two of them rather than one.
post #11908 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

There are several high quality subs smaller than that. One that I'm considering is Velodynes DD10+ which is 13" wide x 14.2" high x 16" deep and goes to 18 Hz +/-3 dB.

Any confirmation on that 18hz spec other than Velodyne's? Cause I'm kind of doubting it.
post #11909 of 15596
Hopefully the Velodyne isn't far off published specs. A) they are a rather well respected sub mfg. and this is in one of their top lines, and B) the MSRP of the DD-10+ is > $3k. With a price tag along those lines, they should be able to stuff a very robust driver and amp, with significantly tweaked/optimized EQ in it, into a small box. Granted you still have some Iron Laws to work with, but I don't see any max SPL at 18 Hz figures listed, so it is very possible at a lower SPL.
post #11910 of 15596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Any confirmation on that 18hz spec other than Velodyne's? Cause I'm kind of doubting it.

+1

Count me among the skeptics.
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