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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 403

post #12061 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post

Will Youtube actually have that audio content? I know it's compressed to crap, but will it actually output the low-bass goodies?

Good question -- but keep in mind that encoding bass is not much of a problem, so I see no reason why it would be left out of the audio file. It's true that compression will remove frequencies from the signal, but only if there isn't much signal there to begin with. However heavy compression might strip inaudible frequencies and ultra low bass may indeed be cut. As far as I can tell however, the link above still contains at least the 17 Hz note. Can't say for the 7 Hz note though biggrin.gif
post #12062 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Good question -- but keep in mind that encoding bass is not much of a problem, so I see no reason why it would be left out of the audio file. It's true that compression will remove frequencies from the signal, but only if there isn't much signal there to begin with. However heavy compression might strip inaudible frequencies and ultra low bass may indeed be cut. As far as I can tell however, the link above still contains at least the 17 Hz note. Can't say for the 7 Hz note though biggrin.gif

I'm pretty sure it does - check out this subwoofer test... I've used it, seems pretty accurate. NOTE: Keep your volume LOW at first if you try it, it REALLY pumps out bass, and you don't want to blow your subs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukQ6OSs3dWo
post #12063 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Good question -- but keep in mind that encoding bass is not much of a problem, so I see no reason why it would be left out of the audio file. It's true that compression will remove frequencies from the signal, but only if there isn't much signal there to begin with. However heavy compression might strip inaudible frequencies and ultra low bass may indeed be cut. As far as I can tell however, the link above still contains at least the 17 Hz note. Can't say for the 7 Hz note though biggrin.gif

Cool, I stopped being lazy and started diddling around streaming YouTube... there's definitely some "there," there. eek.gif Running some bass sweeps through the PB-1000, not a lot going on below 20Hz, unsurprisingly, pretty flat up to the crossover point though, considering I don't have an AVR with correction capabilities, and my sadly cube-shaped room.

Man, does my system have some goofy stuff going on between 100-300Hz, LOL.

Any timestamps on the 17Hz content? Any YT tests that label the freqs in real time?
post #12064 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

I'm pretty sure it does - check out this subwoofer test... I've used it, seems pretty accurate. NOTE: Keep your volume LOW at first if you try it, it REALLY pumps out bass, and you don't want to blow your subs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukQ6OSs3dWo

That's a great find. However, just a note: those are not pure tones, they are pulses at the noted frequency. Since each pulse is broadband (i.e. contains higher frequencies), you can actually hear them even if your speakers can't play that frequency. Case in point: I'm at work with crappy computer speakers and I can hear the 10 Hz pulses biggrin.gif Volume is pretty low too, so it's probably not distortion. Though perhaps they're so crappy it is, and I'm only hearing harmonics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post

Running some bass sweeps through the PB-1000, not a lot going on below 20Hz, unsurprisingly

Unsurprisingly indeed. At a friend with his PC12-NSD, which still goes pretty strong by 19 Hz, I failed to notice the 17 Hz note in Bass, I Love You. That's just below tuning and the response drops like a rock. The same is probably true with the Pluses and Ultra in native 20 Hz tune. However, the Plus in 16 Hz tune catches it pretty well. In fact in my setup 17 Hz is peak response and the note is like a flutter on the skin, or a pulsing in the air that is not heard at all.
Quote:
Any timestamps on the 17Hz content? Any YT tests that label the freqs in real time?

Well there doesn't seem to be a definitive source as to what are the precise notes in BILY -- one commenter that of course now I can't find since the comments are not searchable in Youtube mentions timings and frequencies, but they're not exactly what I had seen before.

I'd give you the exact location of the 17 Hz note in the Youtube stream but here at work, I sorely lack a sub-20 Hz capable subwoofer. Ah, just found the comment I was referring to before... take it with a grain of salt but that could help:
Quote:
For those interested in knowing the frequencies of each bass note, they are: 31hz @ 10 seconds 8hz @ 12 seconds 29hz, 33hz, 34 from 13-15 seconds 17hz @ 16 seconds 29hz @ 17 seconds and then it repeats the cycle. There is an incremental step sweep from 50hz to 31hz from 50-52 seconds. I wonder how many people think there is supposed to be a "pause" at the 12 second mark...

For example, just after the 17 Hz note, at 17 seconds, I clearly hear two notes with the first higher than the second, not a single note.

We in the sub community sorely lack a good spectrum analyzer that is easier to use than SpecLab and which would allow us to quickly see the frequency contents of audio files. If anybody know of any, please tell us. I know foobar2000 has good visuals but the spectrogram's frequency axis is unlabelled.
post #12065 of 15588
Note 17Hz Bass I love you's I can hear in my room with my PB12-Plus DSP, I have the 20hz tuning but the answer is rock solid to 16Hz in my small room.

I can really feel it and hear it (if running with sufficient SPL) percived sound with the ears is like a wave of air in the room and wave a kind of pressure in the ears. The wall is right behind my couch, bend and shake the back of my couch ... It's a feeling imcreible, as also shakes several doors, windows of the house. biggrin.gif

On the subject hear below 20hz, is possible as long as it is accompanied by sufficient power and SPL and of course, the subwoofer designed for this purpose.

I think this chart also can help:



It is the perception threshold infrasound.
post #12066 of 15588
Quote:
Quote:
neut One day, when my son will ask "Dad, can I have a subwoofer of my own?", I'll answer... "Yes my son you can. But we will build it. Together."

Due to some issues with my folks, I have found myself having to move back home. Anyway I thought it would be nice to include my Father in on my last build since he likes to build furniture now and then along with other projects. I’ve always known he has his way of doing things, but age has only increased this trait. It could be something as small as how to take a cap off a jar, or how many meatballs should go into the spaghetti! I’m talking everything. smile.gif Well people being people and Dad being Dad, I try to go along with it as much as I feel Ok about not wanting to spend the rest of our time going over such piddly things. So the first day we go out to the garage to start our/my next project, it must have been like 15 minutes before I noticed where’s Dad? Apparently I didn’t take his advice on something so he went inside. This happened like three or four times before he finally picked up on the idea when it comes to subs, I had my own way of doing things that he wasn’t going to have his way on.. although I’m flexible in some areas. He would still make suggestions like “I like to use this type of rag when I stain” (I didn’t like it) but he came around. He has had total rule around here for years and was the baby in the family and still is. lol biggrin.gif Anyway in the end we figured things out and had a pretty good time working together once things were ironed out. I have done other projects with him in the past that was his project, and done things totally his way no problem.

So when you take on your first sub project with your son (this might be your first build?) the two of you can rely on each other to figure things out with the lean towards you of course. Enjoy every minute of it. After his first build he will figure he knows more than Dad and not want your input the next time around. He’ll be a full fledged teenager by then, but a bass head off of the old block. cool.gif
post #12067 of 15588
It's cool you're doing DIY subs with your dad smile.gif

I'm just realizing that some day my kids will be people I'll be able to do projects with, not just playing around. I hope by then this won't be my first DIY sub as honestly this is really something I'd like to do. But for now, I don't have the time nor the physical space to do that

I think I have a better chance coding my own spectrogram viewer for now cool.gif
post #12068 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

I can really feel it and hear it (if running with sufficient SPL) percived sound with the ears is like a wave of air in the room and wave a kind of pressure in the ears.

Indeed -- a feeling of pressure, but it's not realy something you hear as much as a feeling.
Quote:
On the subject hear below 20hz, is possible as long as it is accompanied by sufficient power and SPL and of course, the subwoofer designed for this purpose.

I think this chart also can help

That's awesome. I'll use it on another thread to make a point biggrin.gif
post #12069 of 15588
Quote:
Quote:
I don't have the time nor the physical space to do that

I think I have a better chance coding my own spectrogram viewer for now cool.gif

Yes I have stated this many times, DIY is not for everybody and not even for some DIY’ers all the time. Whatever you do, do what you enjoy. If one of my daughters asked me to build a sub with them, that would truly be a wonderful thing, it’s not goanna happen though. On the flip side I get to share in some things that I wouldn’t if they were sons, it’s all good. Ok back to reg programing. wink.gif
Quote:
Indeed -- a feeling of pressure, but it's not realy something you hear as much as a feeling.

Are you guys talking about bass? confused.gifbiggrin.gif
post #12070 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Indeed -- a feeling of pressure, but it's not realy something you hear as much as a feeling.
That's awesome. I'll use it on another thread to make a point biggrin.gif

I saw that you used the graph in PSA thread, it is good to use it to calm fanaticism and myths.

True, it's a strange feeling, but the sound emitting and collecting is awesome. SVS is with that first note could hear 17Hz Bass I love you, at other times with other subwoofers was impossible, only listened to the mechanical part of the drive dying outside their linear tour.

Today a video on Youtube PB13 Bass i Iove you working close to the edge and you can see in the actual sound picked up by the camera, the air moving when dismissing 17Hz note.

That's the video:

Edited by Lecter83 - 11/14/13 at 5:33am
post #12071 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

Are you guys talking about bass? confused.gifbiggrin.gif

biggrin.gif
post #12072 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

Today a video on Youtube PB13 Bass i Iove you working close to the edge and you can see in the actual sound picked up by the camera, the air moving when dismissing 17Hz note.

I've seen that one before. While everybody watches the troll's hair, look at the surround! Wow he must be pretty close to the limits of the driver -- the surround is all dimpled during the high-excursions phase.

Not sure if it's the 17 Hz note or the sub trying to play the 7-8 Hz note, way under the tuning. Of course... still at work... can't hear the bass line at all biggrin.gif I hope the owner has not engaged the amp's sealed mode for that vid, which would defeat the high-pass filter protection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

Yes I have stated this many times, DIY is not for everybody and not even for some DIY’ers all the time. Whatever you do, do what you enjoy. If one of my daughters asked me to build a sub with them, that would truly be a wonderful thing, it’s not goanna happen though. On the flip side I get to share in some things that I wouldn’t if they were sons, it’s all good. Ok back to reg programing. wink.gif

Oh I also have a daughter -- she's 3 yo now -- and she may be interested in building subs with me too. So far she's not much into princess stuff and she always tell me to pump up the volume in the car in our way to the kindergarden biggrin.gif
Quote:
Are you guys talking about bass? confused.gifbiggrin.gif

Yes... I think so at least... I thought it was a pretty common fetish here wink.gif
post #12073 of 15588
I have a question for SVS owners. I've come across a local SVS 25-31 PCi for $200. Is this a good deal? From what I gather, the sub was sold around 10 years ago for around $550.

Thanks
post #12074 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjaurelio View Post

I have a question for SVS owners. I've come across a local SVS 25-31 PCi for $200. Is this a good deal? From what I gather, the sub was sold around 10 years ago for around $550.

I don't know older SVS subs that well but as far as I can tell, the 25-31 PCi was one of the entry-level SVS sub from 2002. It was pretty well reviewed at the time and it sports the traditional 12" driver and a 320-W BASH amp. As such it should have roughly the performances of the 1000-series subs (which lack a cylinder form factor) that currently sell for $499. However the PB-1000 is tuned lower so that it extends down to 20 Hz whereas the 25-31 PCi, as its name implies, is flat down to 25 Hz. If the sub is in good condition, and you don't mind the lack of warranty and the 5 Hz difference in extension, I'd say $200 is certainly a fair price for the sub.
Edited by neutro - 11/14/13 at 8:14am
post #12075 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I've seen that one before. While everybody watches the troll's hair, look at the surround! Wow he must be pretty close to the limits of the driver -- the surround is all dimpled during the high-excursions phase.

Not sure if it's the 17 Hz note or the sub trying to play the 7-8 Hz note, way under the tuning. Of course... still at work... can't hear the bass line at all biggrin.gif I hope the owner has not engaged the amp's sealed mode for that vid, which would defeat the high-pass filter protection.

Frequency is 7-8Hz. This requires a lot of energy from the amplifier to be driven, also makes push the driver abruptly, touching the limits of tour (is an Ultra bash, do not cut their limiters so abrupt as do the models DSP). This in DSP models is difficult to get to accomplish.

17Hz in tone, if you set is a series of continuous pulses of about 2-3 seconds. It's where longer hairs are the puppets move continuously and sound "bah bah bah bah bah" (that's the air moving and stay as 17Hz tone would sound with sufuciente SPL).

I hope I explained well. biggrin.gif
post #12076 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

Frequency is 7-8Hz. This requires a lot of energy from the amplifier to be driven, also makes push the driver abruptly, touching the limits of tour (is an Ultra bash, do not cut their limiters so abrupt as do the models DSP). This in DSP models is difficult to get to accomplish.

I would have thought that even in the BASH models, there would be a high-pass filter to protect the driver under the tuning frequency that would have cut almost completely any 8 Hz content. As far as I can tell, on the DSP versions, the only way to defeat the HPF is to select sealed mode, and this is pretty dangerous to do if you don't block all ports using the foam plugs.

The sub in the video above is running the sub in 16 Hz tuning... In the DSP model, the 16 Hz amp mode has a HPF with a 12 Hz cut-off.
post #12077 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I would have thought that even in the BASH models, there would be a high-pass filter to protect the driver under the tuning frequency that would have cut almost completely any 8 Hz content. As far as I can tell, on the DSP versions, the only way to defeat the HPF is to select sealed mode, and this is pretty dangerous to do if you don't block all ports using the foam plugs.

The sub in the video above is running the sub in 16 Hz tuning... In the DSP model, the 16 Hz amp mode has a HPF with a 12 Hz cut-off.

Ultra has certainly bash subwoofer protection filters, but these are not as effective as they are in sledge DSP models. Also it is possible to be in tune to 15Hz (so it was said in the models bash) is easier to push the subwoofer to the limit or near limit, since it also reduces headroom.

We can say that no protection is a brick wall, the slope of falling processed has a capacity limit and always let some gas go below the set point and protection.

Anyway much limiter / compressor you have, you can take them to the limit of their capcidades. It is possible if the subwoofer gain this high.
I think Ed Mullen knows thoroughly this question.
post #12078 of 15588
Anyway I must say that bash models, more frequencies allowed to pass underneath. In DSP models to cut gas below, to take full advantage from the point of tuning to the highest part of serious ... This in part the increased power evitente, grants you the ability to have more SPL output from the point of tuning to 120hz.
post #12079 of 15588
SB13 Ultra arrived today. Setup and calibrated via Audyssey MultEQ XT. This thing is so smooth wow. Listened to some music and checked a few movies out. Very happy! This thing can really pack a punch for how small it is. Very impressive indeed. I think I might need one more though. biggrin.gif
post #12080 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchunter View Post

SB13 Ultra arrived today. Setup and calibrated via Audyssey MultEQ XT. This thing is so smooth wow. Listened to some music and checked a few movies out. Very happy! This thing can really pack a punch for how small it is. Very impressive indeed. I think I might need one more though. biggrin.gif

UH-OH! cc is hooked! Any pics for us lookers? Congrats!
Quote:
neut> Oh I also have a daughter -- she's 3 yo now -- and she may be interested in building subs with me too. So far she's not much into princess stuff and she always tell me to pump up the volume in the car in our way to the kindergarden biggrin.gif

Way cool! yuh never know, she might be the bass head?? cool.gif
Edited by steve nn - 11/14/13 at 5:39pm
post #12081 of 15588
Guys... I have been in "cloud 9" for the last 2 weeks since my dual PB13-Ultras arrived. The Ultra twins replaced 3 Hsu VTF3's (2 VTF3-HO + 1 VTF3-MK4) in my movie room. The way the PB13's just absolutely pound my 2800^3 movie room is shocking... mind you, the VTF3's were no slouches, but the Ultras are a whole other level of bass.








post #12082 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post

Guys... I have been in "cloud 9" for the last 2 weeks since my dual PB13-Ultras arrived. The Ultra twins replaced 3 Hsu VTF3's (2 VTF3-HO + 1 VTF3-MK4) in my movie room. The way the PB13's just absolutely pound my 2800^3 movie room is shocking... mind you, the VTF3's were no slouches, but the Ultras are a whole other level of bass.

Unpacking pictures of duals is always cool biggrin.gif

Nice!
post #12083 of 15588
I'm going to go ahead and say I can't hear the 17Hz content in BILY on my system in my room, and I'm not going to turn up to try to feel anything. That's fine, nothing about the specs or word-of-mouth suggested mid-teens output was in the works.
post #12084 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Unpacking pictures of duals is always cool biggrin.gif

Nice!



Indeed cel4145,

Now if you saw pictures of me (6ft tall, 190lbs) and my wife helping me with the dolly going upstairs (God bless her... 5'1", 110lbs) to my movie room taking 2, 155lbs subwoofers, I am sure you could say "welcome to the svs family" smile.gif
post #12085 of 15588

 

Luis,  referring to "The way the PB13's just absolutely pound my 2800^3 movie room is shocking..."

the words that came to me reading this is: it's Thor's Hammer !

post #12086 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post



Indeed cel4145,

Now if you saw pictures of me (6ft tall, 190lbs) and my wife helping me with the dolly going upstairs (God bless her... 5'1", 110lbs) to my movie room taking 2, 155lbs subwoofers, I am sure you could say "welcome to the svs family" smile.gif

That woman is a keeper:eek:
post #12087 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post


Now if you saw pictures of me (6ft tall, 190lbs) and my wife helping me with the dolly going upstairs (God bless her... 5'1", 110lbs) to my movie room taking 2, 155lbs subwoofers, I am sure you could say "welcome to the svs family" smile.gif
I might say you may need to start outfitting your seating with seatbelts for your wife. Those duals may shake her out otherwise. biggrin.gif

Congrats to you guys with the new dual SVS subs.
post #12088 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post

I might say you may need to start outfitting your seating with seatbelts for your wife. Those duals may shake her out otherwise. biggrin.gif

Congrats to you guys with the new dual SVS subs.


LOL... biggrin.gif too funny. In fact, I thought about that after playing Chapter 4, 5 and 6 of War of the Worlds.
post #12089 of 15588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gellidius View Post

Luis,  referring to "The way the PB13's just absolutely pound my 2800^3 movie room is shocking..."
the words that came to me reading this is: it's Thor's Hammer !

You are so right, especially after watching Thor on blu-ray again with the Ultra twins, the Hammer slams & thuds never sounded better. biggrin.gif
post #12090 of 15588
Congrats Luis, those look awesome!
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